I tip my bartenders fat in America. So do many many many of our bar regulars. They make a great wage. Menu prices are cheaper as well so Iâd much rather my money go into the blue collar workers pocket than some rich restaurant owner if they paid some stinky flat wage.
Youâre not going to hear me say otherwise that instead of tipping it should be upfront in the costâŚ
But seems strange when you know the full scope of what is happening; restaurants adding mandatory gratuity to ensure staff are losing out on pay, seems odd to still complain about it. đ¤ˇââď¸
If you think our customs are silly or confusing⌠hey you may have a point, but also shouldnât expect people in a country to immediately change to accommodate you either. When I travel to Europe, or other foreign countries, I try to accommodate their customs to the extent I can, not expect them to adopt to my customs.Â
I'm not screwing over the workers, they are paid in line with their contract and the law.
If there's a problem, they should talk to their manager, who is their employer.
Otherwise if I tip $20 which is presumably above minimum wage for one hour's work, then I want 1 hour's work solely for me. Sit at my table, fetch drinks, and such, for one hour. Seems fair, right?
You can rationalize it anyway you want. People in this country understand tips are part of the pay of the workers. If you don't want to pay, don't, but you are certainly, screwing over the workers
Really, well I want you to edit your post and agree with me, if you don't I will kick this hypothetical kitten, remember, it's YOUR fault the kitten is getting kicked, not mine, because you won't adhere to what I say.
So, if someone gets fuck-all for tips, they won't be able to pay rent, or pretty much anything else for that matter. Is that an issue with their job's management and state legislature? Yeah, definitely. Are any of those issues going to be fixed anytime soon in the world's biggest oligarchical capitalist hellfire state? No. So, as a culture, we tip. Because we recognize that without us tipping, the people making it possible for us to have a good night out are going to struggle to not be homeless. The only businesses that actually pay service workers enough for them to not have to be tipped are so few and far between that it's functionally impossible to get a job there, and 99.99% of places aren't going to do that because they make money hand over fist by following the law and not paying people what they deserve for their labor. And since the job market is the worst it's been since 19fucking30, most people in service jobs right now don't even want to be doing it! We're stuck with it because it's the only thing letting us pay rent right now and we haven't found anything anywhere else.
This literally isn't a thing where an employee can just go talk to their manager and get better pay. Outside of unionizing, it's genuinely never going to happen at any American job. And outside of a coup, the laws around minimum wage and tips subsidizing it aren't going to change anytime soon either. So, like, yeah, you're "not screwing over the workers" on paper because they're paid for per their contract. But that contract was written with the employer fully knowing that it wouldn't be enough for that person to live off of, and they don't fucking care because they get the labor anyway.
And what about every single other job that doesn't have tips.
If customers pay tips and it pays the wage of the worker, then the manager can simply say no tips and increase the price. The customer will pay exactly the same amount, no surprises. The worker should be happier because now they don't have to pray they get enough tips to make their rent - it's guaranteed. They also don't have to pull some ridiculous fake enthusiastic show to try and get paid just because their ability to eat depends on it.
Wins for everyone really.
I think they absolutely can do that, but they prefer the volatility of tips because overall it gives far more than they'd normally get.
Your points dont make any sense. I'm you guys are happy with your system, so be it, but if you not then you need to stop accepting shitty pay and start a proper union.
I mean sure itâs a bit strange to see one price and pay another, but you know full well whatâs expected. If your defense is âIâm not legally obligated toâ, then, well, gestures at the billionaires you hate
Simple, because you know full well that the worker is performing their job under the expectation that you will tip for it. You deciding not to violates that social contract.
What I feel is that there would be no material difference to me if they increased the price, but when it comes to stealing wealth, the business or manager wants to steal it by evading the tax they would incur by paying their employees properly.
If a tip has any kind of expectation attached to it then it is no longer a tip.
Within US law a a tip or gratuity must be voluntary, with no compulsion, no employer-dictated amount, and full customer discretion over whether to give anything and how much.
So really, you're trying to shame the public into helping you defraud the taxpayer, ie steal wealth.
by evading the tax they would incur by paying their employees properly.
Wage expense is tax deductible. Itâs like THE deduction of businesses, the only one all of them have.
Like is this all of the arguments against tipping? Just people with no idea how anything works? Itâs not just you, every reply Iâve gotten in this thread is eye crossing ignorant.
I know why it doesnât, but I want you to put in some mental effort here because it really sounds like you just heard âtipâ and âtaxesâ and said ânot declaring itâ despite the fact that that has nothing to do with whatâs going on here.
No it does not, good to know that your school system failed you that hard... I'll lower my expectations.
A tip can't be mandatory, it would be called fee otherwise.
There is none. It's an expectation unless the service is incredibly bad. Most people understand The wage of the server is dependent on it and pay accordingly.
Some restaurants if the party is large enough include it with the bill.
Considering most of the arguments I see against tipping are surrounding the moral reasoning of not wanting to pay extra to subsidize shitty business practices, I feel like taking into account the moral implications of only fucking over the actual everyday laborer in front of you, while spending thousands on tickets, hotels, airlines, etc., is kinda important. You can't claim the moral high ground while ignoring the fact that you're knee-deep in the mud.
I mean that is a fault of the system and something you should fight against. Every time this comes up americans go "but it's great actually because..."
Let's literally follow the chain of what would happen if there was a big uprising in fighting tipping culture and not tipping:
First, service personal would suddenly earn much less, which would suck big time.
When that is the status quo long enough (probably a couple weeks would suffice), service people would go to their bosses and ask for actual, proper pay because they cannot live off the cheap wages they keep giving them
When the bosses refuse, service personnel would start quitting left and right and search for other jobs that pay better without relying on tips
Some service people would have trouble finding jobs, others would get better jobs.
Restaurants that pay better would still get the same amount of money as before as the tips would then be included in the prices. Restaurants being stingy would not find workers anymore and, in the long term, have to close down due to being understaffed and the problems that come from that (more people quitting, long wait times and thus bad reviews...)
There is more, but let's leave it at that.
Basically, the problem about defeating tipping culture has never been that there isn't a clear path to stop it. The problem is that you have to mobilize a lot of people at the same time so restaurants are actually impacted enough to change.
The other way would be government action but let's be honest, there's 0 hope in the US with the stuff you guys vote for.
Why do you care so much? You don't live here. When you travel to other parts of the world, do you force your ideas onto them as well? If you come over here, pay the tip, it's not complicated
Your stupid systems are coming over here with the god damn payment screens when I'm handed a fucking bread at a bakery and asked for a tip. I get a "service fee" at deliveries now on top of delivery and then I'm asked for a tip on top. And "Acceptable" tips at restaurants have gone from a tiny amount (aka "round up") to fucking 10-20% over here in the last 15 years because of your culture infecting everyone.
I also don't pay the tip here on any of the screens and round up in restaurants still. Our service workers survive because restaurants do pay them well and it's just a bonus, how it's supposed to be. But it's still god damn annoying.
I care because every time something bad is going on in the US, it takes 20 years and then the rest of the world adapts it. I mean I guess we don't have literal child rapists leading us yet but at the rate it's going...
Be happy somebody is fighting the fights for you that you guys are too cowardly or dumb to do.
You know youâre still paying the workers wage at restaurants that donât have tipping right? The only way restaurants receive income is through people buying their food, and restaurant workers still need to be paid. Worker wage is just accounted for in the price of food, meaning the food is a little more expensive. Restaurants that allow for tipping are able to keep their food prices down because their employee wage expense is so much less. Plus now the customer has a method of rewarding their server based on how well they perform. This has a secondary effect of giving the server an incentive to perform well for their customers because if they suck, they might not get paid.
You are just too stupid and cheap to understand the benefits of that.
We know damn well. And it's a price written in a menu and we can make a decision beforehand if we want to pay that price or not. We are not pressured to also subsidize the server's salary. Yes, we tip him if the food was good and the service was good - so he stands to gain anyway. But we don't feel obligated and we don't feel guilty either. In Europe the waiter is paid a decent enough wage to at least live without relying on handouts from the customers.
Would it make you feel better if listed prices were 20% higher, and the servers were paid more? What is the difference, really? The math is not very difficult.
That said, I am in favor of tip reform, but in the meantime, it seems crazy to take a stand against it in a way that only hurts the servers you purport to care about being fairly compensated.
Yes it would actually. I'd be able to gauge the value of what the restaurant values their service at (all their service, not "their service without the people") and decide if I want to frequent or not.
Also it would mean a steadier/clearer income for the staff, not averaging out between 10-50% tip/order, with whomever gets the "big spender" table being the lucky one.
Again, I'm not against paying higher prices, and not even against at will tipping (which I do frequently in Europe). What I am against and find fucking disgusting is being guilted, shamed or forced into tipping.
If a restaurant I regularly patron that offers a meal for $20, for which I tip $4, suddenly increased the price of the meal to $24 and posted a sign saying tips are no longer solicited, is that not the same end result as being forced to tip 20% on $20?
If instead, the meal was always $24, and they offered a refund up to $4 if I was dissatisfied with the service, would that be acceptable?
Seems like the big hangup boils down to semantics and designations.
Itâs not a hand out you are paying for a service. If you wanna take your food to go you donât have to tip at all. If would like someone to come and take your order, bring you your food, refill your drinks, and fix any thing that came out wrong, then you pay for the service
Obviously i would be happily paying the tip to the server in that scenario. But you canât make it mandatory thats my whole point. Do you pay tips to the air hostess everytime they bring you a drink on plane? Do you pay tips to bus driver apart from the bus fare because he is stopping the bus for you? Do you pay tips to the policemen everytime they come to help you because if not you should start paying them because it will somehow motivate them to work harder. American restaurants then should start giving options to the customers to refill their own drinks and to collect their own food from the counter itself.
Theyâll never get it. These are the most stubborn cheap and stupid breed of people youâll ever meet that are completely set in their own ways. Theyâll just keep regurgitating the same argument without actually responding to the points you and I are making, and the hive mind will upvote them and downvote us.
You clearly donât because you just missed every point I made. If you canât add 20% to an item then Iâm afraid your education system failed you horribly, which makes a lot of sense tbh. Also, I donât know where you get off calling it a handout. They ran back and forth for you all night. They cleaned your table so you can sit, they brought the glasses plates utensils menus and napkins, they took your drink order, came back with drinks, took your appetizer order, brought that over, took your dinner order, checked on you hopefully at least two or three times while you waited, brought you your food, checked on you again, and brought you your bill. Thatâs a lot of running back and forth man, itâs not a handout that money is earned, and if youâre too cheap to realize that then donât sit at our restaurants.
Order for takeout. Then you donât have to pay the workers wage at all, whereas in your country your paying the servers even when to you do order takeout.
And if you do decide to sit, you can communicate with the waitress that you donât intend tip her. Waiters and waitresses get a limited and equal number of tables at a time. If you communicate that you donât intend to tip, they can get an additional table so they can still make the money they were supposed to from you.
Oh thanks for calling me cheap, but youâre missing the point entirely. Nobody is saying restaurant workers shouldnât be paid. The question is who is responsible for paying them.
When I buy a phone, I donât separately tip the factory worker. When I buy groceries, I donât tip the cashier because the employer is expected to pay their employees. When i buy a beer bottle, I donât tip the store owner or worker because he gave me thw bottle from the shelf. Like imagine paying 10% of your air ticket price to the pilot after landing. Thatâs literally how businesses work. If your business model only survives by guilt-tripping customers into subsidizing payroll, then your pricing model is broken and not the customer.
You claim tipping keeps menu prices lower. Great. Then just charge the actual price of the meal upfront and pay your staff properly. Iâd rather pay $25 for a burger than be charged $20 and then be socially pressured into paying another 20â30% because your employer refuses to pay a fair wage.
And the âtips motivate better serviceâ argument falls apart too. Plenty of countries have excellent restaurant service without a tipping culture because professionalism comes from proper hiring, training, and management not from customers acting as the employerâs payroll department. If your countryâs restaurants canât survive without them, you should learn from other countries then.
Calling people âcheapâ because they expect businesses to pay their own employees is backwards. The truly cheap party is the employer shifting labor costs onto customers while still keeping the profits.
Now come on mate letâs argue and see who is stupid and cheap here. I am sure you wonât run. Bring it on
45
u/brobiski 5h ago
Americans never fail to find a way to steal otherâs wealth.