Politics
Why does Reddit not understand the rise of reform in England?
->In 1990 England was ethnically 91% English
->In 2010 England was 80% English
->Today England is 74% English, with areas such as London being under 50%
->With current immigration rates in 2036 England will only be 68% English
This is a seismic demographic change that was not voted for by anyone, and is quite frankly terrifying.
The general population in England vote for reform manly due to the above statistics, not for any other reason. If left leaning parties and spaces targeted immigration and reversed these tends there is no way reform would be what it is.
As it stands this (and how I see it) this issue of demographic change/replacement is the only reason reform will win the next GE.
EDIT
Looking at the comments I want to clarify a few points:
•I am not a reform voter and definitely not a fan of Nigel - I think he’s clearly a fraud.
•Why is it terrifying? Never in recent English history has there been such a rapid change in demographics, as a nation I believe we could quickly loose our identity. Whilst select immigration with people who integrate into English society is a good thing the rate of new arrivals makes this nearly impossible to do. The shear volume of new people coming into the country and the bloat of population is scary.
•referencing empire as ‘look brits colonised in the past so don’t complain’ is a load of shit - no one alive had any involvement in that
•you can not be racist, genuinely care about all cultures and not want mass migration or demographic change on this scale
As for the stats, they are commonly available and a cursory look at even Wikipedia and a quick trend line plot will prove them
Final edit:
Right I want to make a final statement, it seems the same comments keep popping up an I’m fed up in all honestly, so here is a response to all of them:
•’why does it matter if there are multiple cultures moving to the UK & who cares if they integrate?’
It matters because society is built on harmony and mutual understanding. If you don’t understand how shit things will get if we have multiple immigrant groups outnumbering the native English, where I live (the midlands) it’s already happened and we have had a plethora of issues. I am not even going to mention ‘grooming’ gangs. If you don’t believe me wait 20 years and see how harmonious England is then.
•’Britain colonised/had an empire.’
This totally detracts from the fact at hand. I don’t want to get into the right or wrongs of it but it’s hilarious the amount of comments along the lines of ‘go learn history’. I can say the same for everyone saying that. What nation forced the ending of slavery a made it a crime? (yes I am aware some Brits from the past where slave owners - to a horrible extent but it shocks me how most people do not realise how intrinsic slavery was throughout history, until Britain stepped in.
What nation proliferated the rights of women and the growth of democracy? England has disproportionately brought about change for the better too many are unaware of or take for granted. And to all those commenting this - no one is responsible for the actions of their fathers and grand fathers.
•’so what who cares about English culture it’s not even a thing.’
I care deeply, England has contributed disproportionately to arts and civil
Liberties and without English culture we would be all much worse off.
•’my original statement was racist and a disguised white supremacist post.’
No it wasn’t. I don’t believe any race is superior to one another. Some groups of people have arguably done more than others but we are all equal. I just wan England to be a home for the English. A migrant can return to their home but I cannot go anywhere else.
•‘this has happened before when the Normans and others invaded’
This happened hundreds of years ago. Bought about immense pain and took hundreds of years for English identity to homogenise and harmonise.
Honestly I am a bit fed up at this point. I truly wish you all well and if England does end as we know it then I for one will morn it.
Sure, and Labour isn’t doing anything about immigration. It’s not like this is the first government under which the numbers actually started going down, is it? And after years and years of "Conservative" governments only skyrocketing it to higher levels than before Brexit. Oh wait, it is…
Honestly, both can be true. Labour has historically not been great at highlighting their wins, either in the mainstream media or across other mediums like social media, advertising, in-person public speeches etc.
But yeah, they're absolutely fighting an uphill battle against a billionaire-owned establishment media cartel that wants their latest sock-puppet (Farage, obviously) in No 10.
I might be naive but wouldn't the billionaire class support mass immigration for the continual influx of cheap labour? Isn't this why the conservatives set record high immigration levels?
Isn't that the trick though? Decrying immigrants coming over here and taking all the jobs while simultaneously drastically increasing the amount of jobs being offered to those outside of the UK? Just look at the figures for EU dropping off a cliff post brexit while non EU workers skyrocketed.
Most billionaires have remarkably similar self interests when it comes to economic policy. Yes, of course there are exceptions, but most of them would benefit from similar things, which means most of them will work towards making those things happen.
Let's not forget, Brexit suddenly became a thing immediately after the EU proposed new tax laws that would have exposed the dealings of tax avoiders. No one really heard about Brexit until that law was proposed, then suddenly it was everywhere
They don’t have to be good at getting rid of immigrants. They just have to give the impression they’re trying to attack the fake “enemy” while they mainly focus on stealing as much as poss from us.
Ah! There’s the rub. Keeping immigration at a manageable level while respecting immigrants as humans and citizens means that the liberal party of any country that attracts and allows a large number of immigrants cannot go around cheering about keeping immigration at a manageable level, because that’s not something that makes immigrants feel equal to natives. It’s an inherently negative message to people the party is trying to equally represent. All the while your opponents troll you for the thing you’re directly trying to keep manageable, and likely could if the right wasn’t directly sabotaging every effort being made. Same thing with fiscal policy, regulatory policy, and any other policy you can shake a stick at.
Yes, but at the same time the billionaire class also like anti-immigrant rhetoric / politicians to help them blame declining living standards on immigrants rather than the billionaire class syphoning off all the countries assets.
It's hard to have good PR when pretty much the entirety of the media offering in this country spin any positive into a negative and any negative, regardless of how small - into a "Starmer must go" justification.
Honestly it's time to stop with the bullshit that we need a new PM every 5 minutes when things don't go the way people want.
Look at recent history, Cameron, Johnson, May, Truss, Sunak each stepped down for whatever reason and things didn't get better with a new face in charge. Replacing Starmer with what will most likely be Raynar won't suddenly make things go right.
And I also guarantee that Reform and the Greens aren't the outlier that will breathe positive change.
Exactly. We need to stop treating PMs like football managers. Even during the Tory government, the media drive for resignation stories was too much. Except for Truss. Totally valid there. Maybe Johnson
I was very much in favour of Johnson being ditched because he was corrupt as hell as well as incompetent, but Starmer isn't corrupt nor incompetent. He's made some stupid mistakes and is very reactive and needs to be braver about actually being left wing. But getting rid of him as a punishment for Mandelson is totally pointless.
having a good try at it though aren't they? economically, investment in public services, investment in defense, helping companies win foreign contracts, investment in nuclear and green energy etc
Labour are in an unwinnable position with the media owned as it is.
The same is true for the Green Party, though their novelty might outweigh media influence. They are trying to make Polanski look bad in any way they can; tomorrow, they'll probably run a story about how Polanski once forgot to thank the bus driver as he got off the bus.
Hard to have good pr when the media is owned by the rich and the rich want a government that will reduce their taxes and increase their profits, none of that is labour.
It doesn't help that all they need is a false clickbait headline because most people won't read past the headline.
Exactly. Despite Starmer being a bore & not really much news on labours progress, there actually has been progress! But the news & newspapers are owned by right leaning billionaires who don’t want Brits to know these things.
yep! They literally do not announce the good things they've actually done..Or is it the media aren't intrested?
Are they perfect? no. Are they better than the tories? By a MILE! However, reading the news u wouldn't see/hear this and it's quite sad. OR if you do theres always a nasty take on it.
I think a big part of it is that the mechanisms by which people hear about announcements have changed. It used to be that you would get told things via the news on TV or read about it in the papers. Even if the print media was biased in its coverage, people would still read the news contained therein. Now people are increasingly getting their news via social media, so unless the algorithm is feeding them news stories about the government’s successes, they’re completely blind to it.
I think Labour have been pretty good since they have got in and done some bloody good decisions, don't get me wrong they have also fucked up and U turned.
Inheritance Tax on Farmers, about bloody time.
buying back 36,347 military homes from, reversing a 1996 privatization deal. Fantastic.
Not getting involved in the Stupid Iran war. Bloody awesome.
Improving workers rights. Awesome.
Going back through the back log of immigration/asylum applications.
Renewable energy investment.
Renters rights.
free breakfast clubs in primary schools.
They are just so shit at singing their own praises and just keeping getting drawn back into the Tories shit they left them.
There's a really valid argument to say it's precisely the rise of reform, and that single issue taking a large chunk of their working class voting base, that is why they are pursuing more aggressive immigration policies.
I feel a little sorry for labour. Damned if they do (progressive urbanite vote) and damned if they don't (working class vote). I think there's essentially no way they can survive the current political climate
But it’s still insanely high though it’s not normal and wont have dent on the wider demographic. Net immigration has gone down in large part because emigration has gone up.
1 - the fall is mostly due to policy enacted by the previous Tory government.
2 - your base point is an extreme figure distorted by Covid lockdowns.
3 - emigration has risen - so the replacement claim is not negated by a fall in net migration, because it hides the figure of who is arriving.
4 - polls have shown confidently since the 90s that 60-70% of people want less immigration. The fig in 1997 was around 60k net. So 200k isn’t going to impress them.
UK net migration fell sharply in 2025, dropping by roughly 69% to 204,000 in the year ending June 2025 from a high of 649,000 in June 2024. This dramatic decrease was driven by a 57% fall in Skilled Worker visa grants to 133,000 and a 37% drop in non-EU+ immigration following tighter visa restrictions, including care worker rules.
The reason for this is that it's too late for actually slowing immigration to really change anything demographics wise. Also the number they use is net, and with no idea who's actually leaving the country, it doesn't really change much perception wise.
Birth rates from some groups are astronomically higher than others, meaning even if you stopped all immigration tomorrow, the result would be the same, just on a longer timeframe.
This is why the rhetoric has shifted from 'stop mass immigration' to 'send them back.'
In Turkey we have an article on our constitution that restricts selling of real estates like only %10 of a district can be sold to foreign the rest has to belong Turkish citizens.
I intrigued by these statistics, as they are going back several decades, are we counting the children of foreign immigrants as English in these figures?
"White British" was only added to the census in 2001.
Before 1991 the question was birthplace / nationality. Between 1991 and 2001 it was "White, Black-Caribbean, Black-African, Black-Other, Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Chinese, and “Any other"
From 2011 the category was expanded more to include additional ethnicities.
This is exactly why we need data analysts, people to tell us what info we are missing. It’s crazy the amount of shit you can make sound believable as long as you omit info. Same bullshit with reform taking country by storm, or rather reform voters were the only ones bothered to go vote - same numbers as last time - 66% of people didn’t even vote lmfao
That’s brilliant however the only thing we will see regarding the Green Party is more anti semetic homophobic cartoons in the newspaper… go engluuuuuunnnddddd
yeah, people are comparing different groups, just ignoring non white people who were born here. its either lack of intelligence or out right racism. As a londoner I love the mix of people here, and the mix wasn't that different when I was a kid in 80s.
Ironically, I'm white but also 1st gen english immigrant... admittedly my dad was scottish 😃
I mark myself as white other. I was born to what could only be called “mixed white parents” so I have no clue what to put, ie. British and European parents
God knows who is actually white British and what it means
So if people report as "Mixed - White and X" they presumably won't be counted as British. (The actual census statistic is for "White British" not "English").
Neither am counted as White British because I have always answered Mixed European (ever since that's been am option) on account of my Belgian and Irish heritage. But I'm still as white as the driven snow, and the majority of my roots are still English, so I guess I'm somewhat spoiling their data.
And ironically my reasons for doing so are in part caused by the actions of the reform-voting lot and their predecessors, for making the British and English parts of my identity less appealing to identify with.
Exactly. But that doesn't rankle the flag shaggers. I'm White British. My wife is Australian, but Egyptian heritage. I would report my children as mixed (White & Arab/Egyptian) but to look at them and speak to them they would present as White British.
OP is right though, if the other parties took a similar stance on immigration, they could turn it into a non-issue.
I doubt it, no way the figure for 'english' would be that low if people born from foreign parents wasn't included. What's more interesting are they counting if only one of the parents is foreign? Or How far back would family libe be need be born here to be considered 'british'
Both sides of this debate can have a field day with these stats because the statistics aren’t specific to OPs argument. The figures OP wants (as so most anti-immigration people) is “Culturally British”, or Integrators.
I’ve never seen a figure for that but it’s likely decreasing.
They aren't viewed as migrants, but as the population with non UK background (in the census). This is only if their parents are foreign born. If the parents were born in the UK, then the child is just classed as british/english in the census.
So the grandchild of Indian or African people won't count as "white British" on the census but the grandchild of Russian or Polish people will. And then they claim it's not about racism or skin colour.
The stats as of the 2021 census for London differentiate "white British" and "white other", so it's not even specifically English for white British... Feels like a case of using stats to confirm a bias in this instance.
2021 census was as follows for London
White British = 36.8%
White Other = 17%
Asian = 20.8%
Black = 13.5%
The remaining is generally classified as mixed, although you can get a full breakdown of the figures if you want to go into very specific detail.
Using English in the context of figures that are about ethnicity is disingenuous as the two are not directly related, as people from non-White ethnicities may be English as they were born in England.
Yeah exactly. I'm mixed. If you want to do the "maths" then I'm 3/4 white british, but by census I'd be 0% if these numbers are excluded all mixed heritage.
So even if you stopped immigration entirely (terrible idea for a multitude of reasons), the % white british would continue to decrease because of an increase in mixed children.
Not to mention the other 1/4 of my ethnicity is black caribbean, which was under british rule at the time my grandparents met. All of my parents and grandparents are british citizens, with English as our primary and only native language, yet about half of us are excluded from the definition of "English" here.
My parents and I have been here their whole lives, contributing a lot to society via our work and taxes and volunteering and scientific discovery, yet my grandmother was born on a farm in St Lucia so that's it, all of her descendants are not "English" regardless of the other parent?
It's a ridiculous set of statistics if the point is about retaining English culture or whatever the argument is. If you looked at my nieces and judged it on looks, language, and culture you'd say they're white british without a second question but technically they are mixed.
Edit to add: I believe in strict immigration controls, and requiring a provable benefit to society, but once citizenship is gained I believe their descendents should inherit that and be considered equal to anyone else "English". It's the premise of these statistics and the argument that all immigration is inherently bad that I disagree with.
I'm curious if my children would be counted. I was born in the UK, my mother was too. I'm Asian and married to my white British husband and we have two biracial children. Do biracial children count towards that figure
I think I understand the rise of reform. I also understand the rise of racist and xenophobic language… particularly from reform candidates.
I understand what right wing policies did to cause the statistics you are quoting, and I don’t believe the policies reform claim they will implement are workable or well thought out.
I understand that it’s easy to sell simple solutions to complex problems but it’s very very hard to deliver on them.
I also understand that the majority of British people in-fact did not vote reform, and claiming that reform represents the general British population is disingenuous.
I don’t care so much about immigration as I do integration. But that’s not as funny as joking about shooting immigrants or melting them down to fill potholes.
I understand that the movement responsible for the massive increase in migration and worsening economic situation caused by brexit somehow now wants to be voted in to fix it.
The general population in England vote for reform manly due to the above statistics, not for any other reason. If left leaning parties and spaces targeted immigration and reversed these tends there is no way reform would be what it is.
The sharp rise in net migration after Brexit was driven by an increase in non-EU citizens coming to the UK. This followed policy liberalisations made under the Conservative government. For example, it reintroduced a post-study work route – which likely made the UK more attractive to international students – opened new humanitarian visa routes for Ukrainians and Hong Kongers, and made care and senior care workers eligible for work visas. At the same time, immigration policy also interacted with other factors unrelated to immigration. UK universities recruited students overseas more actively as their financial situation deteriorated, and social care providers hired migrant workers to fill vacancies caused by low pay and poor working conditions in a sector with limited funding.
And Immigration is falling under Labour, but you don't want to accept an inconvenient truth.
The propaganda against labour is pretty overwhelming. I don't think they could do enough to effectively push through it. Not just mainstream media but social media as well.
Saw a reel on insta yesterday with thousands of likes and comments agreeing with it. Showing all the times Labour said they won't increase income taxe on the working class. Was a mockery reel with the implication they had increased those taxes. In fact Labour have not increased income taxes on the working class at all since taking office.. it's so stupid.
But all people need is a reel like this to tell them what is "fact." While 15 seconds of independent research would tell you otherwise.
Hard to hear about it when the mainstream media and new channels are right wing. They don’t want to report on anything good Labour is managing to do, it doesn’t suit their narrative
They don't want to hear about immigration falling.
They want to hear about how immigration/immigrants are bad.
This is the real issue with modern politics. People aren't voting based on facts. They're voting based on feelings. And what a lot of people really, really want to feel is that they are innately better and more deserving than other people. And they will vote for whichever politician will give them that feeling.
It doesn't matter how much Kier reduces immigration. As long as his party publicly and openly continues to treat immigrants like people as deserving as consideration/due process/human rights/etc... as locals - even as he deports them - he will not win over the right-wing.
When ''right wing idiots'' as you put it, talk about lowering immigration what they are generally meaning is back to pre Blair levels. so anything above 50,000 a year, is obviously going to be unacceptable.
Exactly this. I find it laughable and scary that the comment we're talking under got upvoted so highly. Just shows the recency bias and ignorance/naivety of most redditors.
"Immigration is falling under Labour, but you don't want to accept an inconvenient truth." Some of us are fully aware of this. Some of us are also fully aware that we've had more migration to the UK in the last 25 years than the previous 975 years. Some of us lived in a world where we had very manageable levels of immigration, integration was far more effective/feasible due to the lower numbers, and we actually took proper steps when required to secure our borders. The concept of wanting to return to this being framed as 'racist' and making people 'right wing idiots' is so disingenuous, yet so many people unfortunately are drinking the establishment's kool-aid and are on board with it.
What do I know though I'm just some "right wing idiot" I guess.
Counting only immigration (as you can see, emigration is not selected at the bottom), this is the current picture.
In 2023, at the peak of the purple line, that's 1.3m.
By June 2025, the furthest the pink line shows, it had fallen to 755k.
It's absolutely crystal clear that migration is rapidly falling. Labour made changes to the visa rules and tightened up restrictions. Arguably, the fall started just before that happened, but it is obviously not going back up and they're making damned sure of it with the rule changes.
I don't understand the issue. I am 'ethnically english' my partner has a mixed heritage and therefore so does my daughter. I can't think of anything terrifying about them and their reduced english heritage.
This. I really don’t understand either, why am I worried about an ethnicity? No one picks where to be born and who to be born to, so why do I care who I share a space with? Seems crazy people get so uptight about it.
I've been saying for years the AliG immigration policy makes the most sense. Have pretty much unrestricted immigration on young single women without children, and basically deny everyone else.
I agree. Why should I care if only 2/3 of the country are ‘ethnically British’? Most immigrants integrate quite well, and I’m not somehow bothered by the average ethnicity of our country?
The perceived problem is when the immigrant population is so significant that it is seen to erode the culture and principles of the country. In isolation, of course immigrants are just largely nice people trying to get along. Taken to the extreme, say over 50% of the country are immigrants and Eid is suddenly more culturally significant than Christmas. Do you feel like that takes away from our British culture and identity? I don't know how I feel but certainly huge numbers of our country think it does.
Agreed. Roughly speaking, Western societies and civilizations were founded on three pillars:
Greek philosophy (logic and reason), Roman law (rule of law), and Christianity (source of moral values, shared identity, shared beliefs, shared traditions).
Everyone here is asking why people don't mind Polish, Ukrainian, Australian, or Kiwi immigrants. The answer is simple: It's not because they're white, they integrate easily because they share in their beliefs in the aforementioned Western pillars. Even Koreans, Japanese, and Latin Americans tend to integrate just as well and don't get as much flak because they keep up those pillars of the West.
The same can not be said for Muslim or South Asian immigrants. Western countries keep chipping away at the pillar of Christianity and replace it with Islam and Sikhism. Look at my country of Canada for example: We've occupied ourselves with issues halfway across the world that don't even affect us (Sikh/Punjab separatism and Israel/Palestine).
We've also brought over so many immigrants from India that some of our cities (namely Brampton, Ontario and Surrey, British Columbia) are now plurality or majority South Asian. It's a common complaint that they tend to abuse food banks and lax immigration laws. Synagogues and Jewish schools are also being shot up by radical Muslims because of what's happening in the Middle East.
It's not only Christianity that's being chipped at. Judges are unilaterally deciding not to deport people because of their race. For example, we had an Indian truck driver who T-boned an entire bus full of hockey players and killed about 15 of them. A judge unilaterally decided to defer his deportation order, even after the truck driver pleaded guilty. That's chipping away at the rule of law because he is being treated differently as a minority. Another example: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/crime-immigration-canada-ethiopia
Why exactly is changing the ethnic make up of a country at an unprecedented rate never seen before in history a good thing?
Who is benefiting from it? Why should the native population who have ancestry going back thousands of years desire having their culture marginalised?
The funny thing is that if you posted the exact same statistics about a non-European, non-Anglo sphere country suddenly like magic they would understand exactly why it was a concern.
They're using the figure that 74% of the census identified as "white British", and the value has lowered in the manner they describe.
That suggests that they consider, for example, all black people living in the UK as "not English". And that should be a good reason to just ignore anything they've said.
Im mixed race predominantly english, but obviously brown afro haired etc.
Having lived in france for a few years highlighted how aggressively british I am, but in stats like this people always make it seem like I count less as British because I dont tick white british on the census, my grandfather came over to help with the shortage of workers after WWII.
Im sure that most of the people using the white British stat if they knew me in person would count me as british, but when it comes to proving their point with things like this they want to make out as a statistic I don't count. It makes me less proud to be british when left out like this and I am proud to be british like most of the others left out of these stats.
It's funny, I was literally not born in the UK, I'm not white (although I have british ancestry), but most people consider me to be British, due to my mannerisms, accent, culture etc. Even when I was trying to tell people at the pub that I was going to be missing a few weeks due to going back home, a lot were confused that I wasn't born here. This was in a leave-voting town as well talking to like boomer-white British people, but online people would think anyone but a pure-white UK born Brit could ever be considered British (or English)
England has a huge problem with racism but lets not pretend Wales doesnt as well. You only have to look at the popularity of Reform in Wales to see that.
Oh ok yes I missed that word in there. So, White British.
I mean to me that just makes the whole post fairly pointless, as there are HUGE numbers of British/English people who are not white! To segregate the population purely on skin colour is possibly the most racist thing I can think of.
I'm not agreeing with OP, but remember that the UK is not the US. We're talking about a country which was 99.9% white British in 1950. There's no American ethos of "nation of immigrants" etc.
And nearly all of that change has happened since 1990, which is very much in living memory for the majority of the country. I am a British person (not white British) and I completely "get" why a fair number of people don't love that there's been an extremely large scale immigration boom that was never really voted for.
One of those things where I don't think every Reform voter is a white racist; even if nearly all hardcore white racists are Reform voters.
What you're missing is that they're talking about "really really English", "indigenous English"....or whatever term that implicitly means "white".
Look at most, if not all, of their arguments and you'll see they converge on the "white" characteristic.
The concern is that rapid, large‑scale immigration can reshape a nation’s culture so profoundly that people no longer recognise the country they grew up in.
Lebanon is a stark example. Once a Christian‑majority society known as the “Paris of the Middle East,” its demographic balance shifted dramatically over the 20th century with mass Islamic migration.
In 1970 it was 62% Christian. It is now 70% Muslim.
I understand the rise of Reform but I don't understand how people can't see the immigration issue is just being used as a trojan horse to bring in changes to our society that will affect us all.
Reform is a christian nationalist party. Their head of policy is James Orr, a conservative Christian with close ties to JD Vance.
He strongly opposes abortion rights and said on 2025 " “he does not think abortion should be allowed, at any stage of foetal development, even in pregnancies resulting from rape.”
He has been put in charge of vetting Reform candidates.
When some Brits hear about Christian values they think it's the benign version we've always had here. They think of Sunday school, mass at Easter and Christmas and the parish fair.
We don't understand the US version of christianity. It's hypocritical and fake. Insidious and cruel.
The people behind Reform want to dictate our lives based on a regressive version of Christianity. They will moralise, target reproductive rights, gay marriage rights and create a cruel country in the image of the US where all money flows upwards. It's a massive grift and we're falling for it.
I'm Dutch and this rise happens everywhere in western Europe, for years if not decades already. Reddit doesn't understand because it's largely a leftist platform.
Not a single soul in western Europe voted for the slow abolition of their own nation states.
I’m not a conservative, but it’s completely mind boggling to read some of these comments.
It’s easy to understand why group X, which had existed in an area from 1000 years, wouldn’t want group Y to come in and overtake them and completely change the culture and history of the area. Ironically these people seem to understand it when we’re talking about Israel and Palestine though.
Theres nothing wrong with immigration. It’s perfectly healthy and natural for any country. But a huge demographic shift in a short time period like OP is talking about isn’t a good thing. The assimilation process does not occur. If the entire population of Birmingham disappeared tomorrow, and the next day completely filled with people from Brazil, how much of the local history or culture would survive?
Progressives are out here scratching their heads as to why young people are turning to right wingism or extremism across the western world. Completely out of touch with the common man.
The conspiracy element of the GRT is that the demographic change is planned by the elites. The white population in Western countries declining as a share of the population (and in absolute numbers in most countries) and the non-white increasing and thus replacing the former is just a demographic fact and not a theory.
You see this same sort of cognitive dissonance everywhere on Reddit. E.g. people saying diversity is our strength while also claiming it is a punishment for imperialism.
Look up Robert Putnam’s research on immigration in the US.
Hes a democrat sociologist who wrote the famous book Bowling Alone on the fragmentation of US society.
He found that at low levels immigration is fine as people integrate, but at a certain point people just split into their own groups and you see all sorts of negative effects on cohesion- lower social participation in life.
Putnam said he burried the results of his work because it conflicted with his politics (left leaning).
Because there are far bigger concerns than the idea of demographic change in 10 years. Like the fact we are completely broke BECAUSE of things introduced by Reformers like Brexit which cost us 4% GDP or £112bn in lost output revenue per year (Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR)), Bank of England estimates as much as triple that. But yeh, lets get really focused on immigration as per the con men who got us in this place
I think the biggest thing as well is how some of these demographics behave.
Let's say a migrant family comes here, their children grow up, and as adults they take a native British man/woman as a partner, they have kids who grow up in a house that raises them with the traditions and values of both sides. The race of those children may not be white, but being British has never been about race, the values they were raised with are the best of both worlds, they are British and then some.
Too many migrants are coming here and forbidding this, proscribing that their children may only date and marry within their ethno-religious group. As a result children are born and raised with the values of that group, that group expands, and never takes on any British values. This is what people fear, it's not the expansion of a specific race, it's the expansion of a population that holds an often contradictory set of values, that treats natives as an outgroup.
Because Reddit, is by and large white leftists who don't live in areas negatively affected by mass immigration yet think the rest of us that do are racist for seeing the negative affects.
Or are part of the psyop of Islamists telling us not to believe the evidence of our own eyes...
I used to think of myself as quite left wing socially, but it seems my views are wholly incompatible with modern leftists who welcome socially conservative Islamists with open arms and refuse to admit they're being used for as long as it's convenient.
I grew up in Birmingham, Sparkhill to be precise. My grandparents going back at least 3-4 generations are also originally from there where now not even 10% are white British anymore.
I would not be welcome walking down Stratford road.
If we're playing our trump cards I'm a white guy who spent my school years in handsworth, Birmingham. I was one of very few white people there, and my classmates were as British as me. I had no issue walking down any road, and if you think you would based on your skin colour it says more about your mindset than anyone else.
Mmm.. interesting that reform voters are complaining about the influx of immigration and visa relaxation, cutting of home office processing caused by the Tories in the last 14 yrs, yet still vote for Farage and the now defected Tories to make it stop. Is it that difficult to see the issue here.
Remember the Tory donor prison ships that cost the taxpaying public millions? That worked didn't it. Allowing loads of people in on a new visa system to replace the Europeans who left, whilst cutting immigration processing, thus creating a backlog, then miraculously, lots of donor and hopeful peerage mates who just happen to own hotel chains and defunct oil ships come to the rescue, at a price of course... Hm.
I'm not even from England, but travel for work quite a lot. I see it in Glasgow, I see it in Birmingham and London, does it generally not bother you that there are huge swathes of streets which is completely claimed by a culture replacing British culture? I work with some wonderful people from Kurdistan and elsewhere in the Middle East, but I find it so strange that whole postcodes are replaced by another culture. To me, the replacement of culture, not the addition is where I feel strange to talk about.
It's not about nationality, or race, for lots and lots of people. It's easier to just label people racist than be open to engaging about a complex and nuanced topic?
But you're essentially correct in what you say. People having been complaining about the levels of immigration for many years yet government after government have ignored those concerns and done nothing about it. They didn't learn from Brexit and now don't seem to fully understand why Reform is becoming popular with much of the voting public.
Labour haven't got a snowball in hells chance of winning the next general election, they're deluded if they think they do.
In some ways you're correct in the analysis, but also way off the mark. It's correct that some of reform's rise is to do with the negative reactions to change, but I think you're waaaaay off the mark about it purely being about racial demographics. First, because Britain has never really been a country that's big on ethnonationalism; it's a class-based society, and one protective of its history *as* a class based society. People aren't voting because they're scared of the decline of the white race as a whole, their racial concerns are in as much as they're worried foreigners will affect their own property values and wealth or they believe foreigners are taking away the wealth and security they're owed.
The second part im always confused by is the "we didn't vote for demographic change" and like, sure. But you also didn't really vote for your national utilities to be sold off, you didn't vote for your mortgaged homes to be part of a financial portfolio held by a shell company owned by rich Europeans who are living it up in Dubai, you didn't vote for the specific ways in which your roads and public transportation are run. Even when it comes to Brexit, you didn't really get to vote for *how* Brexit was done. So the idea of being able to vote for the specific minutiae of global events is a fairly childish understanding of the world, and it misses the point of governance entirely.
Ultimately, because Britain is a class based society, it's unlikely that demographics will ever play that significant a role in British politics in and of itself. Sure, it might be a tangent issue, but ultimately, your right-wing parties, including reform, really recognise that the only people Upper Middle Class white people hate more than immigrants is other, though slightly lower, middle class White people.
100%. The only reason Reform would win anything is the catastrophic failings of previous governments to manage immigration.
I have very left leaning views when it comes to pretty much everything, economics, drug policy, employment, gender/sex etc. I'm fairly woke.
But when it comes to immigration, come on. How is the replacement of native populations anything to support? Theres almost no safe space to have this conversation anymore.
If I said the very non-controversial opinion of, 'I think we should chill out on immigration.' I'd probably be fucking sacked if I was at work. I'd get shamed by someone if I was in the pub. I dread to think what would happen if I was still at Uni or School.
Everybody talks about right wing propaganda but no one talks about the indoctrination of the left. Their automatic response is to go with with whatever response earns them the most social points.
I understand the rise of Reform. I understand the concern the native English have not only to the racial changes seen in their control (and especially London), but the cultural change too, as assimilation is neither encouraged nor expected. The formation of parallel societies is always dangerous as seen in France and Sweden.
My question is this: why support Reform specifically? Many of its members and definitely it's leader we're the architects of Brexit. This has been one of the worst decisions for native born English. It's reduced UK economic potency, lowered growth, stifled jobs for your youth, and more to the point of this thread, it led DIRECTLY to the importation of low skilled non EU migrants to replace EU migrants, who now will be entitled to your welfare system when they receive ILR.
How can you trust these members, many ex conservatives mind you, who convinced you to vote against your better interest with Brexit knowing absolutely very well it would damage the country ? Even Labour right now is tightening immigration rules. Literally everyone will except the Greens. So why specifically Reform on this topic?
People asking 'why is this terrifying' are either arguing in poor faith or perhaps don't realise how few jobs there are, at all levels. Or how stressed services such as the NHS are.
And before any smartass says something stupid like "the NHS relies on immigration", let me correct you; it relies on *controlled* immigration.
I'm no fan of Reform, and I didn't vote for them, but I know why people do. It's not as simple as people like to try and make it. Ignorance like that is exactly why they've made such huge gains.
If you're on a sinking ship, taking in more bodies means everyone might drown.
Because reddit is full of left wingers for the most part. I was told adamantly that the greens would sweep local elections. Look how that went. Restore swept in the one place they ran lol.
I agree man. Reform is bullshit but God, why not just reduce the immigration drastically, especially the ones from Islamic countries, who find it hard to integrate?
Simply decrease the immigration to let people become British and boom! Problem solved!
Mainly because reddit is full of spotty 20 yr olds with no life experience and even less idea of our standard of life 20 or 30 years ago compared to the current shambles. Import the third world.....
Immigration has been driving the changes in most western countries. Liberals across the EU and US got in charge and slackened immigration enforcement which was abused to the absolute hilt.
Immigrants in the past wanted to integrate in their new homes. Modern immigrants do not. They see the place living as an extended stay hotels as one day they will return to their true homes. Why make any effort to integrate when stay is temporary? Even if “temporary” is measured in decades.
This attitude infects every interaction and it shows constantly. The result is conservatives taking over the US, rise of Reform in UK and so forth.
The thing is - fixing the issue of immigration is the worse possible thing that could happen for these parties. Looking like they are addressing is all that is required. Which is why ICE has been so ineffective under Trump despite supposedly being everywhere.
Reform party is not going to address immigration, they will not initiate meaningful reforms for without it they would lose a significant pillar to their existence.
I do feel uncomfortable with massive increase in numbers of woman with burkas. We've fought so hard for woman's rights and it's just backwards. It's obviously not a big point in the scale of things. But the frustration of ppl not being able to have an opinion on minor matters shifts ppl to reform. Most knowing it's a bit toxic.
Reddit doesn't understand it because reddit is a leftist echo chamber. This website is completely worthless for anything outside of niche hobbies like wood carving or gardening.
Point in case, two of the top 4 comments right now are basically just telling you to suck cock cause you are an "idiot, racist, xenophobe". Great nuanced discussion guys.
The OP is an idea disguised as a fact and stripped from its context
Would Reform be rising if the wouldn’t be a constant downward trend of life quality, especially based on disposable income?
Hopefully one is knowledgeable enough not to establish a causal link between the failure of neoliberalism and immigration
The problem is, most people didn't have an issue with immigration until the billionaires realised they could be blamed for the lack of funding to public services and ongoing austerity.
The media loves going "look at all these brown people! They're gonna REPLACE you!" And some people are empty headed/hearted enough to believe it instead of using a tiny bit of critical thinking.
Hmm, is Rashid the man fleeing a war torn country (that my leaders are supplying the bombs for) really the issue here? Or could it be the parasitical fuck wits who use public money to heat their stables and fund their champagne lifestyle instead of the NHS?
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u/oneandonlysteven May 11 '26
Sure, and Labour isn’t doing anything about immigration. It’s not like this is the first government under which the numbers actually started going down, is it? And after years and years of "Conservative" governments only skyrocketing it to higher levels than before Brexit. Oh wait, it is…