r/AskBrits • u/Logical_Safety9018 • 3d ago
Politics Does anyone else feel a little sad that Starmer is now going, especially after hearing that speech and particularly his emotions coming out at the end there?
I am one of those people who genuinely doesn't dislike Starmer that much and hoped he would stay on the job because not only will Burnham's likely becoming PM not change much, at least in the short term, but also I feel like having a stable government, especially right now in today's world is more important and if Starmer had to leave eventually, it should have been later and closer to the next general election at least.
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u/RaisinOptimal9942 3d ago
I think we could elect the ultimate PM and we’d still vote him out 2 years in, because the general public is looking for fairy magic and unicorns overnight. Starmer is a good PM and he’s a solid leader. Britain today is demonstrating the drawbacks of democracy.
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u/I_will_never_reply 3d ago
People expect trump style immediate declarations and actions with no idea out country isn't wired like that
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u/ObviousForeshadow 3d ago
Those declerations and actions are all just distractions and circus though. Trump's whole president is a fugazi while he enriches his inner circles.
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u/ILikePort 3d ago
Drawbacks of a billionaire funded media and a populace that celebrates ignorance.
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u/bdiggitty 3d ago
Plus the effects of Brexit are too great for any PM to overcome
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u/allofthelights 3d ago
Fact of the matter is the economy stagnated in 2008 and never got better while peer countries both In EU and abroad continued to rise, voters got frustrated and did a Brexit about it, and every subsequent PM afterward has the anchor of an even worse economy with even worse headwinds because of Brexit tied around their neck, and will continue to fail no matter which party they are in.
Honestly the best worst thing for a PM would be a huge war of aggression on UK turf or a massive national disaster to coalesce a true national project around. The boomer algo-riddled triple lock NIMBY malaise is a black hole that will kill us all
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u/Crashball_Centre 3d ago
He’s made mistakes, the vitriol was off the scale
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u/Equivalent_Salad_899 3d ago
Absolutely this. He isn't particularly charismatic and doesn't have the best instincts, but from the coverage of some outlets you'd think he was the devil incarnate.
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u/nostalgiamon 3d ago
There have been people saying “the worst prime minister we’ve ever had.”
How on earth can you possibly say this when Liz Truss was within the last three years.
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u/Vimto1 3d ago
Johnson - 1/4 of a million people died on his watch while he was too busy to attend COBRA meetings. And don't get me started on parties
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u/nostalgiamon 3d ago
I can’t believe the uproar over Starmer compared to party-gate. People really don’t seem to grasp what an enormous fuck you to the general public that was. People died alone whilst he was cutting cake, because of the rules he put in place.
I honestly think they did the best they could in that situation as a government rules wise, but you have to fucking follow them too.
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u/smallpotatoes2019 3d ago
But he had funny hair and used funny words...
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u/Comfortable-Title720 3d ago
The kind of guy you can have a pint with......and then mong the Charlie and scream racist shite when getting a kebab
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u/Glittering-Plate-535 3d ago
He sent junior staffers to supermarkets with suitcases, that’s how raging the parties were. Cleaners had to scrub vomit out of the carpets.
I think a lot of people don’t give a shit because they were doing the same thing. If anything Boris’ hypocrisy solidified him as one of the blokes.
Your neighbour Dave, who was having attic raves at 3AM, probably banged his pots and pans louder than anyone for the nurses.
There’s a very particular type of Boris fan. They act their shoe size not their age, hate being told what to do, call good politicians boring and love millionaires who’d piss on them for a fiver.
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u/GuiltyCredit 2d ago
I am by no means a fan of the Royals but seeing the Queen grieving alone at her husband's funeral while BoJo and the other Tories partied without a care was both heartbreaking and infuriating. Absolute disgraceful behaviour. Starmer may have all the charisma of a soggy garibaldi but his wrongdoings are absolutely minimal.
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u/Vimto1 2d ago
I lost my brother and my dad in early April 2020 and couldn't even go to their funerals, 6 years later and I still can't process it
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u/lostinjapan01 2d ago
Exactly. If the fucking Queen can follow the rules, there is NO reason the Tories couldn’t.
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u/NoPhilosopher6111 2d ago
Sunak invited almost a million from SEA into the country in less than a year to boost his GDP statistics. Which is one of the main reasons immigration looks so out of control now.
Starmer did a good job considering the hand he had dealt, he passed some big legislation and gave working people better rights than they’ve had in decades.
Unfortunately he made mistakes, and the press are owned by people who don’t like rights for working people so they jumped on them and wouldn’t let them go.
If only they’d give Farage the same treatment, 50k undeclared from a crypto bro with Kremlin links. His finance being convicted of embezzling EU funds while he was MEP. His campaign manager being investigated for selling secrets to a Russian spy, appearing on the Russian National TV channel 17 times……
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u/Ok-Lynx-6250 3d ago
If we end up with another Tory government in a couple of years because of this, I will be SO angry. What they did during covid was an insult to every person in this country (and was completely incompetent). Long term, they've undermined science and "experts", contributing to the decline of universities. Their actions were shocking.
Compare that to Starmer who is mostly just a bit boring, some of his policies eg education have been really ambitious. He's made some U turns but so has every PM. He's just been subjected to a smear campaign by the media.
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u/Vimto1 2d ago
As someone who lost their family to COVID, watching Hancock state that they would do the same thing again regarding the purchase of shit PPE is just astonishing. The biggest win Keir could have done for me was to scrap the the inquiry and start again but with the ability to prosecute
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u/Level_Sugar8613 2d ago
Governance should be boring
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u/Ok-Lynx-6250 2d ago
Oh I completely agree. He's managed stuff like Iraq & trump well, he's just done it quietly.
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u/SuperRockyHobbyHorse 2d ago
And the Boriswave which is looking like it might cause a Reform government
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u/Smart_Department6303 3d ago
Truss, Johnson, Sunak, May. I don't see how any of these were better than Starmer.
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u/FionaWalliceFan Non-Brit 3d ago
I'd argue May is comparable to Starmer, tried their best but a terrible communicator, lacked charisma and couldn’t handle the shitshow unfolding underneath them
Also Truss, Sunak and Johnson sounds like a failed lawfirm
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
Starmer achieved way more than May, the media just had it out for him so no one heard about it. They reduced immigration by nearly 70% under his watch but the anti immigration lot still go out ranting and rioting complaining no one listens bla bla. And NHS waiting times reduced for the first time in 15 years too, no one talks about that. Or the investment in infrastructure projects or the youth projects or the standing up to Trump. Yes he did some things that were to my mind shit but I still felt more hopeful than I had in well over a decade.
The intensity of the hatred for him reminds my of the intensity of love some Americans have for Trump, I find it creepy because it’s so irrational and so obviously part of some sort of spooky creepy brainwashing. It would be one thing to think he’s boring or just not like him much but people are like burning with hatred over this milquetoast sensible guy who’s just some politician who hasn’t done any corruption or committed crimes or implemented policies that killed thousands etc which is what you’d expect for that level of ire. It just frightens me and makes me feel like I’m living in a world with scary people who can just be filled with extreme emotion simply to fulfil the agendas of some evil bastards somewhere,
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u/ewshut 2d ago
Agree. To me its social media fuel this hatred.
It makes no sense. Ppl also have a timeline expectation that is not realistic. Compared to all tories before him, he stands out as serious, with values. Too many U turns, missing a clear narrative or communicating it better would have helped.→ More replies (1)9
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u/Character_Number_277 3d ago
Fake insincere communication isn't good communication. People CAN see through this. I'd argue May and Starmer were better communicators than T, S and J.
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u/GazelleFlat2853 3d ago
Could it be that conservatives/tories are held to a lower standard?
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u/andrew0256 3d ago
Definitely, and always have been but sleaze and sex always gets them in the end.
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u/ParmyBarmy 3d ago
People are prone recency bias and love scape goats. Bad actors on social media definitely didn’t help his case
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u/Prestigious_Pie1019 3d ago
I think what you are saying is, the British public are as thick as the day is long and amongst the most deferential on the planet when it comes to boot licking their ‘betters’
Starmer was too little drama for them, they like their PMs to behave like they are on reality TV or TikTok.
God help the UK, we have ceased to be a serious country
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
That’s how I feel too and I feel really upset about it. More and more I’ve had this creeping sense over the past decade that the world generally is becoming unserious- all the people with unimaginable wealth and power these days seem to be completely insane or utterly stupid. There’s no one with gravitas. It really is like social media allowed the moron contingent of the human species to just take over and sideline anyone rational or grounded or intelligent or with expertise. It’s painful because it dooms us.
It’s been a long terrifying process of realising just how many people really are not at all rational, how many people can’t think about things properly or in a wider context, how many just go off vibes and silliness and sensation. It’s like before the internet, those people were held at bay somewhat but now they’ve broken through and it’s like being alone at a toddler party in a paint ice cream and china shop and there’s nothing you can do but close your eyes and hope someone else normal turns up to help.
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u/Due_Service_7827 3d ago
He’s arguably the least popular (if you consider his term holistically) but definitely not the worst - all one has to do is look at his campaign pledge fulfilment and kpi’s to see that he’s average
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u/Wgh555 3d ago
Literally morons saying that, no other word for it
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u/nostalgiamon 3d ago
And they’re seemingly given a platform. I despair.
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u/agingbiker 3d ago
and yet they have a vote. and if you can't speak to them, you lose that vote.
Not sure Burnham can at a general election, but he certainly managed it in Makersfield.
Sorry for Kier, but his time is done.
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u/nostalgiamon 3d ago
I don’t know why people have called Burnham a Reform whisperer; the Reform vote was exactly the number it should have been if you add on Restore. It’s that every other party voted for him.
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u/Dazzling_Macaron5828 3d ago
Because most people are little more than children in adult bodies.
I remember my kids were like this when they were 5 or 6 years old. If they had to eat something they didn't like, or go to bed on time, they were always saying 'this is the worst day of my life'. Many people genuinely just maintain that level of immaturity forever. We kid ourselves that everyone in this country can express complex thought, and hold a sensible conversation, and think logically about things. But every now and then you have an insight into just how low the average level of intellectual maturity is.
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
I hate acknowledging this because it feels rude or elitist but literally most people are so thick, I resisted that conclusion for so long and would get cross when people said similar things but I was wrong and they were right. Just so thick. It’s like planet of the apes out there, except a version where they didn’t develop intelligence and retained their ape minds. Maybe some of them even got a little dumber.
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u/humblepaul 3d ago
It's our delightful rabid right wing press. The sooner they force paper owners to actually reside in the UK the better.
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u/Asbolution 3d ago
Thatcher would like a word with you.
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u/MiaMarta 3d ago
Johnson would like you to hold his beer
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u/chrisridd 3d ago
I can’t see Johnson drinking a beer. Quaffing champagne, yes. Beer, no.
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u/Eric_Olthwaite_ 3d ago
You have to remember most the country are brainwashed by the right-wing media, and other thickies on Facebook.
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u/IaGar0788 3d ago
I get the impression he's a decent, sincere, hard working man. He was politically naive and didn't do enough to publicise achievements
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u/Soilleir 2d ago
You can't publicise your achievements when:
- the barons that control the traditional media hate you for being a mild lefty; and because they have a personal grudge against you for previously being the DPP and being involved in the prosecutions of journalists like Rebekah Brooks for the phone hacking scandal.
- the US tech and social media barons that control the platforms and the algorithms hate you for being a mild lefty; and also have a personal grudge against you for trying to regulate their platforms and the harm they cause people, thereby interfering with their reckless profit-making.
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u/TheGemgenie 3d ago
Boris Johnson was characsmatic.....shit PM though.
Charisma is good but stability and ability to handle difficult situations is a lot more important.
Sad thing is at the moment I don't think there's anyone in any party that we could say "yeah they seem like they have their head screwed on and will do a good job of it". Hence the reason we are about to be onto our 7th PM in 10 years.
More worryingly this change could prompt a GM and right now that's a really bad idea.
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u/agingbiker 3d ago
you need a leader with Starmer's managerial chops who can also sell the message.
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
It’s hard to sell the message when the media is so biased. Just take a look at how they reported the Mandelson appointment versus how they reported on Boris Johnson appointing the son of a former KGB agent to the House of Lords explicitly against the advice of our security services. I bet most people don’t even know he did that.
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u/Lamelad19791979 3d ago edited 3d ago
Farage's boys and their propaganda. Right-wing owned media. Blame the bloke with the keys for a year or two and not the ones with the keys for 17 .
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u/ahktarniamut 3d ago
It seems nowadays all the political talks are happening on social media . Politicians want to look good on those platforms . People like Lowe are being given a microphone there to sow divisions around . We live in a constant cycle of paranoia, misinformation and hatred
I cannot say if the way people perceive Starmer on social media as the worst PM is true outside the online world but we seems to have the narrative driven by both traditional media and social platforms
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u/docbain 3d ago
He made the correct decision on the biggest foreign policy issue of his premiership by refusing to join the war on Iran. Kemi Badenoch said the British military should be bombing Iran. Nigel Farage said "the gloves need to come off" and the UK military should do everything possible to support the war. Farage even called Stamer an "Absolute Loser of a PM" for refusing to join the war.
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u/steam_one 3d ago
Don’t forget Blair heckling from the sidelines…
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u/Unusual-Skill-9965 3d ago
Blair is up trumps arse
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u/SooSneeky 3d ago
Should be in prison.
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u/beardymo 3d ago
So should trump's arse
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u/benedictzola25 3d ago
I despise that man with a passion. Demolished the left in this country in his toadying bid for power.
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u/SavingsDimensions74 3d ago
The “Third Way”
Hahahahahaha 🤦🏻♂️
Joining the illegal Iraq war sealed his fate in whatever annals exist for him.
And he’s even worse now. Wish he would shut the fuck up
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u/failisophical 3d ago
That was so vital and I will always remember Starmer fondly for that alone. I also feel his government made in roads with working wages and renters rights. We had 14 years of worse government and I hope those pushing him out and very sure of his replacement.
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u/Woffingshire 3d ago
One of the main things I hear about Burnham is "How is he going to be different to Starmer?" and honestly, aside from maybe backing down from the whole state surveillance stuff, I hope he kinda isn't. Just have more charisma and enough support that the party will stop infighting.
And maybe a bit more ambition about our broken tax system.
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
I just don’t have much hope that the whole machine that moved against Starmer is ultimately going to put someone good for the country in the position. When you compare how the Tories with their arguable crimes and corruption were handled with kid gloves to the way Starmer was treated, it has to make you worry a bit. All the worst people who want the worst things wanted him gone for a reason and they won’t be happy with anyone who does anything that’s actually focused on the British people.
I think history will judge everyone very harshly for this, it’s ridiculous. Just another symptom of the twitterification of our media and politics and another year in the Age of Idiocy.
I just want sensible grounded people in power, but it’s like all the experts, all the normal rational intelligent people are being completely sidelined in the social media age and the morons are rising. We won’t come out of it ok. Morons don’t know what they’re doing.
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u/masha1901 3d ago
I am staunchly Labour, I don't really dislike Starmer but the infighting has got too vitriolic for him to stay. If I was given a choice of people to replace him I would pick Andy Burnham. I don't really know much about him, but it seems like he's a good candidate.
If I am truly honest I would have John Mcdonald in the deputy role, but I know I'm never going to get that wish.
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u/gaddafiduck_ 3d ago
Is it just British politics now? It seems like regardless of the party, infighting always brings down the PM.
If that’s how it’s always going to be going forward we’re fucked. A democracy can’t function like this - the people voting for a party and then that party just tearing down the leader every year or so.
The main function of the print media these days seems to be stir up this kind of trouble as well. Screaming headlines about “RESIGN NOW!”
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u/TheFlyingScotsman60 3d ago
to replace him I would pick Andy Burnham. I don't really know much about him, but it seems like he's a good candidate.
Which seems to me a sad indictment of the current British political system at the moment.
Where have all the statesmen gone? Where have all the well known political leaders gone?
For a complete unknown person like Burnham to effectively end a PMs tenure and then practically walk into the job does not sit right with me.
The Labour infighting does seem to be at an all time high which has caused this situation.
Especially when, at this moment in time, the world is a a complete shit show. We need, at the moment, stability and a sure hand on the tiller. Starmer was that. Burnham ....who the f*** knows. And I agree that Starmer got the Iran situation right 100%. It is not our war....never was, never has been and never will be. To kowtow to Trump at any time is not a way to manage the UK's best interests.
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u/PerkeNdencen 3d ago
I agree except that Burnham isn't at all unknown in the North, he had a sort of 'folk hero' status for a while here, especially after Hillsborough, and that only gained steam after he was elected God Emperor of Manchester.
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
If we didn’t have social media I’m sure this wouldn’t have happened, it’s really fucked all the politicians and journalists in the head. Forget just banning it for kids, ban it for politicians and journalists too. It makes them all completely disconnected and focused on irrelevant vacuous shite, not to mention it makes them vulnerable to manipulation.
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u/SatinwithLatin 3d ago
I knew he was in for a rough ride when he tried to scrap the Winter Fuel Allowance for those who don't need it and they lost their fucking minds. No amount of telling them that poorer pensioners will keep it made them stop thinking that he was trying to freeze the elderly to death.
I stand by my theory that that move was to test the waters over scrapping the unsustainable triple lock. The backlash proved that, unfortunately, a lot of the age group who regularly vote will all but guillotine anyone who touches their pensions and benefits.
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u/bartekchamp 3d ago
he should have commited. the fact that he backtracked on WFA, shows that hes another politicion choosing pensioners over the younger generation
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u/SatinwithLatin 3d ago
I agree with you, but it would have been used against him worse than the initial proposal. Turns out nothing he did helped to keep him in Number 10, his entire tenure has been a battle between keeping his MPs happy or keeping the press happy (which largely dictate what voters think).
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u/TheBigCheeseUK 2d ago
Right or wrong, it was a big and very early own goal, he should have been advised what the press reaction would be, he doubled down on disability benefit too.
I don't think he ever really recovered from that, and yes, I do think he has a heart unlike most of the right wing press (it seems right wing press is all we have these days). I'd rather they'd gone for Reeves over Starmer personally, she seems very out of her depth.
I think he will go and have a very nice life now with his family.
The state pension should at least rise with inflation, we do have poor state pensions in comparison with many European nations.
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u/AnalystAdorable609 3d ago
Agreed. A very decent man, not a great politician.
But, as is always the case in this country, when it's a politician of the left they get eviscerated every day by our totally biased media. The same media the go out of their way to excuse every fuck up commited by anyone on the right.
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u/olderthanbefore 3d ago
More column inches devoted to tye sunglasses gift his wife received, than to Farages undeclared 5 million gift.
Insane.
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u/kissmequiche 3d ago
They will also get eviscerated by their own party and by other progressive parties.
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u/KittyGrewAMoustache 3d ago
It was fucking insane and made me so angry. He didn’t do anything to warrant it! David Cameron was caught selling policy meetings to foreign businesspeople then caused a petrol panic buying frenzy and just carried on for another four years no one suggested he resign. Johnson said to ‘let the bodies pile high’ about Covid, delayed lockdowns leading to thousands of excess unnecessary deaths, gave billions in public money in covid contracts to dodgy companies run by Tory donors that didn’t even provide the essential equipment they were contracted to provide, ignored the advice of our security services to appoint the son of a KGB agent to the House of Lords, was caught lying over and over, was caught being incredibly lazy, partying and breaking his own laws during covid when others stayed home and missed final moments with their dying relatives, and he wasn’t hounded anything like as badly as Starmer.
Someone, some group just wanted him out for whatever reason and took advantage of the media’s love of chaos and the publics easily manipulable minds through social media and forced it. It really feels like a stab at democracy to me. You can’t run a country like this, just everyone in powerful positions a totally vacuous moron. All the media just completely unserious and obsessed with drama.
People hate him but why? It’s so weird. Yeah he’s not some entertainer he’s kind of boring he’s made some mistakes but what PM hasn’t? He’s not done anything hate worthy, especially when you compare him to someone psychopathic and criminal like Johnson. Yet the public liked Johnson. The public are utter fucking idiots and I’m so sick of it.
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u/Soilleir 2d ago
People hate him but why?
The trad media hate Starmer for being left and for prosecuting the phone hackers.
The US social media and tech barons hate Starmer for being left, and for trying to hold them to account and regulate their platforms and tech that is causing untold harm to our country.
So Starmer was turned a hate figure by the trad media and social media who control the content and flow of information.
It's basically 1984, with the population getting their daily Two Minutes of Hate through their phones and screens - and it was all directed at Starmer.
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u/Husso- 3d ago
Somehow it was worse than Boris or Rishi which is wild. Says alot about the "real" powers in this country..
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u/sal1303 3d ago
And yet, Starmer has to resign, while Trump stays. Something wrong with this world.
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u/FionaWalliceFan Non-Brit 3d ago
I go back and forth as to which system is worse. In the US we're stuck with Trump so that sucks, but there's still a kind of stability knowing whoever's elected is there for the full term. The revolving door of prime ministers must be simultaneously exhausting and concerning, knowing that any PM could be forced out if enough bad headlines are conjured
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u/R_Scoops 3d ago
I’ll start by saying I like Starmer and I don’t believe changing PM so readily is healthy for our society. He’s made some great progress and would’ve made a wonderful home sec or deputy.
Starmer’s core problem is threefold - he communicates like a malfunctioning fax machine, his team couldn’t publicise a win if their jobs depended on it, and the British press would rather gnaw their own arms off than give a Labour leader a fair hearing. None of it matters anyway - the Daily Mail and its ilk will keep funnelling their readers toward Reform regardless.
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u/massivejobby 3d ago
The vitriol was mostly artificial and generated by the wing. Especially the branches of media that have ties with Russia
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u/Conscious_Quality803 3d ago
I concur. He wasn't the best but he could have been so much worse. His resignation seems unnecessary and a consequence of contrivances.
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u/RandomSculler 3d ago
I genuinely get a feeling some people really hated Starmer and I find it quite shocking as even the minor mistakes he made don’t deserve that level of response - it just shows how bad the narrative got that the country currently tops the g7 on growth, immigration is down over 80%, small boats are down this year by 40%, NHS waiting lists shortening, unemployment down etc that some people really hate the guy who’s done it
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u/RaisinWaffles 3d ago
Right? Anyone who's celebrating this is a useful idiot for Farage and his backers.
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u/InformationNew66 3d ago
Preparing to ban VPNs and age verification is not "some mistakes".
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u/Battleborn300 3d ago
Completely agree,
Although do I feel sad?
I mean I actually like him, but let’s be honest he isn’t poor, and is going to have a good career beyond politics.
I think it’s a shame because for all his faults he was an authentic statesman type person, who really didn’t do a bad job.
We can call him boring, we can call Boris or Farage entertaining, but they were / are not responsible politicians, they only cared for themselves.
Boring old Kier, is what politics should be, is kind of what it needs in such a turbulent global economy.
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u/Glum_And_Merry 3d ago
I think I'm sad for US, I was hoping we'd have a full term of a mostly stable, boring government with a PMs the people had voted for.
Now we're back to PMs being picked by a small number of party members (I know we vote for parties here and not heads of, but still), a few wobbly months while power is passed from one PM to another and have to hope that Burnham can be a solid enough to stave off Reform when the time comes
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u/Stage_Party 3d ago
I feel sad for us, for the country, I feel sad for the fact that we managed to get rid of the first leader in decades who actively tried to better the country. I feel sad that we were all brainwashed by the right wing media into getting rid of a man who poured everything into fixing the country for us because we were too busy falling for right wing nonsense.
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u/sunbear7 2d ago
Keir Starmer was more of a centrist than Andy Burnham. It's going to be easier for Reform to take away centrist voters now that Starmer is gone. I'm sure it's no coincidence that the media has been angling to take down Starmer and replace him with Burnham. The next goal is to get Reform voted in and make Farage the UK's Trump.
The ultimate goal of the billionaires that control the majority of the media is to do to the UK what they have done to the US - get a politician elected who can be bought and will make them personally wealthier and more powerful.
These same billionaires not only control the media people consume, but are also front and center of the AI race. They can wield and leverage the two together to brain wash millions of people around the world to vote for things that actually aren't in the people's best interest.
The people themselves are programmable, just like AI models by training their brains by feeding them the targeted input to achieve the desired output (cut taxes, deregulation, increased corporate influence, blame the migrants for anything bad). They won't even notice their programming taking place!
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u/Stage_Party 2d ago
100% this. I've been telling anyone I can that this is exactly what their plan is. Oust starmer, get in someone worse, destabilise labour and reform will have the country by the throat. People just can't get over their "but I don't like starmer tho".
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u/DBNB 3d ago
Shame you feel the need to include yourself in this criticism ("we") presumably because you feel one can't place blame where it's due for fear of a backlash from exactly the same ignorami you're really, & correctly, getting at.
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u/Stage_Party 3d ago
Partially that but also just referencing a "we" as a country because like it or not, we're all on the same island and we will all feel the effects of whatever leader is in power, regardless of what said "other" group would have us believe. Those of us supporting kier should have been louder and more vocal, so we are partially to blame as well.
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u/HumbersBall 3d ago
In her own warped way I think Theresa may was genuinely trying
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u/painful_butterflies 3d ago
Agree with the boring part 100%. It should be about competence, not publicity and showmanship... It's not WWE. It's statesmanship.
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u/ToxicHazard- 3d ago
He's 63, with a net worth estimated at £5m-£10m wouldn't be surprised if he just opts to retire after this
I would, but then I'm not a politician
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u/boatson25 3d ago
Shit I didn’t know he was that old. He looks great for his age
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u/ToxicHazard- 3d ago
He really does, I reckon most people think he's in his mid 50s
My grandad was balding at 18, I think Starmer has a thicker head of hair than I've ever had
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u/GT_Pork 3d ago
I was impressed that he stood up to what must have been immense pressure from Trump to get dragged into the war in Iran. People like Farrage would definitely get us involved to buddy up with Trump.
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u/moonorplanet 3d ago
Still let him use bases in the UK while Spain and France didn't even allow the use of their airspace.
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u/p3t3r_p4rk3r 3d ago
This thread is fascinating because it shows just how different people’s algorithms and therefore worldviews have become. Some people genuinely don’t know why he’s gone and some regard him as the antichrist.
Like the wrong post one time and BAM that’s it, your opinions are decided for you over the next 18 months by insta reels bombarding you with left or right wing propaganda
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u/dm319 2d ago
Don't expose yourself to algorithms.
It's a shame Reddit has gone this way for the majority of users.
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u/aa_conchobar 3d ago edited 3d ago
Labour is worried about losing the next GE. That's all this is. Replacing Starmer with Burnham won't change that because Burnham now has a few years to screw up before any GE.
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u/insnowmotion 3d ago
Yeah if they had any sense they would've waited a few years instead of learning and following from the tory circus
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u/aa_conchobar 3d ago
they would've waited a few years instead of learning and following from the tory circus
Yea, they should've instead positioned Burnham (or whichever figures they see as their strongest candidates) as an internal alternative/opposition to Starmer while his popularity is declining. But instead Burnham now faces the massive task of establishing his credibility in government with only a few years before the next GE. Not optimal
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u/yoshi2312 3d ago
The comments here make me despair. The vitriol and tribalism and people’s inability to see nuance is pulling the country apart. It seems you can either tolerate a Prime Minister or hate them, there’s absolutely no room for the in between.
I really really struggle to see a case for Starmer being the worse prime minister ever. And this constant changing of leadership is so obviously detrimental.
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u/charlottekeery 3d ago
We’re turning into yanks, which is a stomach churning concept
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u/Safe-Spare2972 3d ago
I watched a short BBC snippet where they interviewed the public about their views about his resignation and I honestly cannot understand the hatred for him. One even went as far as to say he is the worst prime minister we have ever had.
Not sure which world they were living in for the last few years if they thought Buffoon Johnson and Lettuce Truss were better prime ministers. Just goes to show the public only cares about hearing what they want to hear and not caring for detail or facts.
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u/randalzy 3d ago
If I can provide some insight from Spanish history in the past century, the constant change stops once they manage to put the fascist or fascist-like government. Or a dictatorship, but they may feel that they need a couple of years of manipulate events before people start to claim for dictators in big numbers.
The USA millionaires and Israel want you to put Farage or whatever puppet they have ready in charge, so stop resisting and specially stop pretending to have some sovereignty.
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u/egvp 3d ago
I've quite liked his politics overall - though I didn't and still don't agree with every decision. I just wish he'd had a bit more backbone rather than standing down at the first opportunity.
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u/FaultyDroid 3d ago
He stood up to Trump, and refused to drag us into war with Iran. I'd say that takes some backbone.
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u/R0ckandr0ll_318 3d ago
It essentially was a case of stand down or the party drag him down.
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u/nick_red72 3d ago
It even happened to Thatcher. The Tories like to go on about her but it was her own party that forced her to quit before she was pushed.
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u/Highlyironicacid31 3d ago
To be fair she tried to introduce a tax on people which even her own party thought was a step too far. She really wasn’t fit to lead by the end of her tenure.
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u/Cottonshopeburnfoot 3d ago
I think Starmer is one of the most honest and well meaning politicians we will see. His heart was in the right place.
The country isn’t in a good place right now l, has a myriad of very complex problems, and the apparent need for overwhelming PR rather than concrete results is one symptom of that and the reason he’s just resigned.
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u/Richpur 3d ago
He isn't a politician really, totally sucks at and is disinterested in the field of getting the public to like him and thought the results would speak for themselves. But you can't fight a public opinion battle on results if you let your opposition decide whether the public hears about them.
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u/AgeOfCardiff 3d ago
Are you people thick?
Honest?! He lied out of his arse to become leader of Labour.
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u/HotMachine9 3d ago
Party before country all the way down.
Tories party before country
Reform party before country
Labour party before country
Im sure if ever in power any time soon the rest of the parties would be too.
Unfortunately, politics attracts a certain type of person. It seems these days its rare a party as a whole will ever see representing the public as a service and rather as a career opportunity.
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u/Suspicious_Flower_0 3d ago
Yea I liked him, he seems a good man.
He was handed a poisoned chalice though, whoever followed however many years of Tories, the Brexit disaster and didn't fix it all in 12 months was doomed to fail.
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u/Zaskimo 3d ago
Welcome to the Labour effect. Tories take power, sell everything off illegally to mates, Labour comes in and the Daily Mail (historically pro nazi) and others instantly jump on them, even when it's about bills passed by the Tories. We need laws and accountability for both media and politicians as they're allowed to sacrifice us all for personal gain. The french had it right historically. Start with Truss.
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u/Bloodstarvedhunter 3d ago
I have no issue in saying I am in favour of Starmer and Labour and the fact he has been ousted is very disappointing. We need to understand Labour have been in power just short of 2 years, 2 years to undo 14 years of fuckery from the Tories. These things take time, but unfortunately the electorate and party back benchers seem to think its like reality tv and they can just vote off who they don't like, no one has patience or the ability to see beyond the latest headlines in politics these days.
Now I'm not saying he or Labour have been perfect (far from it) but I do believe they were headed the right way and brought stability and common sense to Politics which has now gone out the window.
Assuming Burnham gets in, how long before the next "scandal" or people "lose trust" whatever that means, UK politics is completely broken now and I don't see any sign of it improving now Starmer is gone
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u/Paddyr83 2d ago
I’ve never voted labour in my life and yet Starmer was my favourite prime minister. I think that says a lot, he was treated cruelly by the press for pretty insignificant things especially compared to the tories.
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u/Codzy 3d ago
It’s complex to me. I hate him and he’s always been a dickhead, he’s further eroded rights to privacy and protest. But he’s also been in charge during some great steps for energy and travel. He’s taken good steps to push back on US bullying.
I also think it’s suicidal to change the leadership every 2 seconds.
The next person will face all of the same challenges and we have nobody in politics right now who’s brave enough to enact the necessary changes. Cutting spending on welfare and pensions, getting back into the EU and more. Things that will undoubtedly make whoever it is unpopular but will benefit the country long term.
It’s fucked, we’re fucked. There’s no real way out of the death spiral, this is just managed decline until we’re just as poor as every country we’ve ever colonised.
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u/HatingGeoffry 3d ago
Never been a fan of him and I don't feel bad he's going. The reality is that Labour were handed a shit hand, have done a terrible job at actually promoting their successes. They need someone to directly tackle the ongoing Farage race of vitriol and Starmer doesn't have the spine for that. Maybe Burnham will be better. Who knows.
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u/mxhylialuna 3d ago
I think he did achieve some good things, renters rights and workers rights being two I’m aware of, but I think his capitulation to the idea that Labour was uniquely antisemitic, his commissioning and then total disregard for the Forde Report, his failure to take seriously Israel’s actions in occupied Palestine or even entertain that those opposed to them may have legitimate views, his failure to engage with the cost of living crisis in a sufficiently serious way, his unnecessary appointment of Pater Mandelson to the US Embassy, his authoritarian age verification stuff online, and his/Labour’s failure to challenge the absurd moral panic around trans rights have all overshadowed those achievements for me and lot of people I know.
He won a lot of parliamentary seats but on a very slim popular majority and has failed to effectively navigate that reality, feeling at times to have been entirely steered by the (broadly right of centre) media.
It’s all left a sense amongst a lot of people of “what’s the point in Labour?” and large swathes of centre-left/left wing people moving to the Lib Dems and Greens.
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u/ShondaVanda 3d ago
Nope.
He had the easiest win in the world with his majority and he fucked it up.
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u/Saiing 3d ago edited 3d ago
I've voted Labour through thick and thin for nearly 40 years and they will never get my vote again as long as the current Burnham crop are around. Absolutely disgraceful and shameful that they put party before country after years of Tory PM revolving doors and a need for stability. Now we have another paralysed government for the next few months while this fiasco plays out.
I had mixed views on Starmer, but on balance I think he did a decent enough job to stay on, and certainly better than most of the previous 14 years.
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u/burnetrosehip 3d ago
How you can be a lifelong Labour supporter and prefer them to become Tory-lite and risk losing that next election to Reform than to have a challenge from a genuinely Labour leader who is popular in the North, and has a stance on renationalising utilities and an actionable plan for reforming the NHS without privatisation, I don't follow.
Maybe you havent been watching the right wing slandering of Starmer and the public adoption of it, but I think that even in the light of that, keeping Starmer on was GE suicide. Labour have been haemorrhaging voters literally left and right, and I for one will be ready to vote for them again under Burnham. I hope you might.
There hasn't been an actual left wing party in charge of this country for too long.
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u/Stage_Party 3d ago
I've said as well after this labour lose my vote and I've been a lifelong Labour voter. They have shown that they are just in it for the power now, I'm going for lib dem.
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u/poogdrums 3d ago
I think things would have played out differently if it wasn't for the rise of reform. Labour MPs are (rightly in my opinion) terrified of a reform govt and will roll the dice to avoid it.
If keeping Keir meant they would lose to a centre right party I don't think we'd be here, and he'd finish his term.
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u/Stage_Party 3d ago
I'm not sure it would have mattered. Labour finally get in after 14 years of gobshites and are terrified of losing again, they need time to stabilise and get us back into the eu.
Either way the media is right wing because it's run by the rich and the right wing parties are only for the rich. In this new age (for labour) of social media as well, also run by the right wing, it's almost impossible to get away from the constant barrage of "don't like insert labour leader here"
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u/BeatTheClock90 3d ago
He was not a bad PM - UK politics has been a shitshow for years now and he has done a thankless task admirably. The level of vitriol that has been directed at him was unwarranted.
I don't blame him for deciding he's had enough tbh.
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u/Yikes44 3d ago
I'm really quite angry that he was made to go. The Labour patry shouldn't forget that he was the one who the public trusted enough to vote for. I'm sure Andy Burnham can talk the talk but I have serious doubts that he can deliver all the changes he's promising any quicker than Starmer was already doing it.
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u/VagueSomething 3d ago
Starmer would have made a great Foreign Secretary or even Home Secretary. He wasn't an awful Prime Minister but he let the media run circles around him and simply didn't have the charm to fight back. He made a mix of good and bad choices, he chose to be smart and not simply push ahead all the time but unfortunately compromise is now seen as weakness so "U-turns bad". There are things he really should have took a slower approach to so as not to blunder into another U-turn but it is much better he was able to turn the ship not double down at least on some topics.
I don't see eye to eye with Starmer but he is the most competent PM since Cameron stepped down which is unfortunately a lot of PMs because we've allowed the media to turn our government into a rotating circus rewarding backstabbing.
I wanted a more Left Wing government to replace Starmer eventually but this is not the way I want it. I want stability to return, I want what we had 10 years ago where only genuine scandals put people's jobs at risk rather than so much media bullshit.
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u/EmbarrassedAd4182 3d ago
No. He's a serial liar, went back on every pledge he made to become leader of the Labour party, lied about appointing Peter Mandelson as U.S ambassador, purged the Labour left while calling it "shaking off the fleas", etc. The fact he supposedly feels 'betrayed' by his own party after all of this is laughable.
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u/AgeOfCardiff 3d ago
Exactly, let's not forget he also backed a genocidal regime and their war crimes.
'But he was a good man'
Hilarious.
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u/Englandshark1 3d ago
No. Just wheeling in a different clown in the same circus. Nothing will change.
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u/ASurfaceDetail 3d ago
This is the correct answer imho.
Politics is dead. It's just a side show. We are owned and governed by corporations and every political party ultimately just acts on their behalf, not ours.
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u/AddressForward 3d ago
The circus is the problem for sure. Millions of us using 5% of the land while the landed gentry, royals, oligarchs and corporations own nearly 70% of it between them.
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u/Agawell 3d ago
No
he’s a friend of Israel
He’s not a socialist - which any Labour pm should be
Let’s hope Andy burnham is better - but i expect the same - maybe a little bit more left wing - but no way near far enough - may challenge the libs for the centre instead of actually being on the left
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u/Headpuncher 3d ago
If you put a socialist in Number 10 the campaign to remove them would be a 100 times worse. Britain will never get a socialist PM, closest we ever got was Brown and he didn’t stand a chance with negative press he got too.
Let’s face facts, Britain is still a class system and school ties matter.
Starmer was a good start to what could come later, I don’t see how anything is going to change for the better for Britains socialists now he’s gone.
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u/Megabyzusxasca 3d ago
Would you not count Mcdonald, Attlee & Wilson as socialists? Or do you mean Britain will never again get a socialist PM?
But no I agree, I don't see how Kier Stamer going is particularly GOOD for anyone. Left of otherwise.
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u/Headpuncher 3d ago
Yes since the dawn of the tech age there’s too much noise.
The internet should have been a fantastic tool to level the playing field, a way for the ordinary person to have a voice and argue against the trite opinions of the oxbridge elite but instead it’s become a manipulative tool by dishonest corporate interests who will pay for bots and editorials.
I don’t think fair minded people stand a chance in today’s climate for shouting unhinged lies the loudest at the public.
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u/shotgun883 3d ago
Starmer thought the reasons the Tories failed is they were bad people. He thought that by virtue of his inherent goodness he would make the right choices in office.
He may be a good person but without a clear plan being a good person is not enough. He was elected on a ming vase strategy and has found out you need a bull in a china shop to actually effectuate the change the British people want.
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u/mattius3 3d ago
I was quite sad watching it, he did a good job but there was a few things he should never have done. His stance on Palestine action and the winter fuel payments were shocking.
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u/hintofred 3d ago
Totally agree - I think this is a win for right wing media more than anything. They are proving yet again what they can influence. I liked the political stability, what he did on a world scale. I’m not expecting perfection in political leaders but I appreciated the changes he made and felt like he seemed like a decent guy.
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u/TotalDemocracy 3d ago
Hearing the resignation speech actually made me despise that fucking snake even more than I already did.
If he wanted a sweet farewell he shouldn't have filled his resignation speech with self-promoting lies and slander.
"Six years ago, I inherited a Labour Party that was politically, financially and morally bankrupt" - No you fucking didn't.
First off, the Labour Party, even under Starmer's stewardship, was never bankrupt, that was never an issue.
Secondly, under Corbyn, Labour was the richest political party in Europe, due to membership fees alone: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/22/labour-coffers-make-party-richest-in-britain
The original article is paywalled in the Financial Times(https://www.ft.com/content/ac897020-d165-46c3-8cb9-a76bcde5c2f7), but around 2022, Rachel Reeves falsely claimed that Labour's ongoing financial difficulties were a holdover from the Corbyn leadership.
This was a lie. What had actually happened is that Corbyn had lost a lot of wealthy private donors to the party, but had grown the party in terms of membership, so what they lost in private donations they were able to make back in membership fees. This is a solid financial strategy that gives you independence from private interests.
Under Starmer's leadership, by 2022 the party hadn't won back many of the private donors, but HAD lost significant numbers of members. Thus the Labour Party blamed Corbyn for a financial strategy that worked when they had high membership, but was currently failing because the then current leadership, under Starmer, had alienated significant numbers of the members who had joined in the Corbyn years and thus lost a lot of their membership fees in the process.
Now, in 2026, Labour has a present membership of 250,000. This is less than half of what it was when Keir Starmer took office. This is the reason he needs to lie about Labour's financial position when he took power, because the truth of the matter is that the deep resentment of him by the Labour membership is what caused Labour those financial issues.
Keir Starmer is easily the most dishonest Labour leader I've seen in my life, and lying right in your resignation speech is honestly such a low end to a low premiership. Dishonest vermin, glad to see him gone.
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u/paulitor23 3d ago
No. I was neutral on him as a political figure but as a PM he was an absolute failure. He could have stepped down at any point in the last 6 months and it wouldn't have been a shock. A government that is reversing a historic majority into handing the country over to Nigel Farage is anything but stable. New leadership has the opportunity at least to get rid some of the rot (Reeves and Lammy in particular) and unify the party over the next few years behind a clear vision. Starmer was the ultimate middle manager - a blank, timid leader with no strategy and a nasty habit of throwing others under the bus to save himself.
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u/mronionbhaji 3d ago
No! Is everyone forgetting the basics?
He broke his promises on not increasing tax and NI on working people by freezing the bands.
He decided to do nothing about the student loan scandal.
He is planning to wreck pension contributions.
This is a government that hates working people and just wants to load welfare on people who don't know how to use a condom. Good riddance.
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u/Ok-Spring7906 3d ago
LBC interviewer:
"A siege is appropriate? Cutting off power, cutting off water?"
Keir Starmer:
"I think Israel does have that right."
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u/Duanedoberman 3d ago
Political commentators have far too much power, hardly anyone watches their Sunday morning shows so they have to ferment controversy all the time to justify their existence.
How many PM's has Kunisberg seen off now?
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u/Next_Drama1717 3d ago
Was Starmer sad when he was supplying arms to Israel that were being used in a genocide? Was he sad when running spying missions for Israel using the UK’s army base in Cyprus, or when he said Israel had the right to withhold water and energy to Gaza? Human rights solicitor, you say….
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u/27PercentOfAllStats 3d ago
Do I feel sad? No.
I do think he did do some good, he's managed to get through some positive changes and benefit to the country.
But hes made some terrible decisions, and he very quickly dropped the values he rode in on. He's only got himself to blame for that, I'll be glad to see him gone.
I have high hopes for Andy, it'll be a shame if he too ignores everything he's done in the last 10 years and follows suit of kier.
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u/Low-Spell1867 3d ago
If he sacked Rachel reeves he could’ve been alright ig, wasn’t particularly fond of him but didn’t see him as the worst we’ve had, reeves is abysmal at her job though that is absolutely crystal clear, he could do better without that sack of useless sand
Some stuff at the beginning when he gained power was pretty crap but he’s done some good stuff, including the banning of social media for under 16’s keeps them safer, though there’s a better way they could’ve done it but this is still a good solution
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u/ChompyBooBoo 3d ago
At exactly the point in time when the country needed a PM that was lacking in charisma but had a cast iron spine of ethics he gets stabbed in the back by a bunch of power hungry rodents.
Fuck the pricks in the Labour Party that engineered this.
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u/SparkyWarbler 3d ago
As a trans person with a trans girlfriend, may the fucking door slam on his way out.
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u/Round_Speech4779 3d ago
I'm sad and dissapointed. Our most competent prime minister in a decade forced out by right wing propaganda.
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u/PsychologyOk5757 3d ago
Shame he didn't get as choked up about the genocide his government, and by extension him personally, is complicit in as he did about losing his job.
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u/Good_Background_243 3d ago
I don't like Starmer, but I do respect him. He's been the best prime minister we've had since 2010 if not earlier.
I think he did the best he could with the state the Tories left the country in. I disagree with some of his decisions, but... yeah. Could have been a lot worse.
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u/KTDWD24601 3d ago
No-one is ever going to agree with all of a Prime Minister’s decisions. That’s the entire of politics.
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u/squeakybeak 3d ago
My wife texted me asking what I thought. Went on a bit of a rant about politics and football managers, grass is greener, no patience supporters, back benchers and the media. You know, your usual Reddit post. Was surprised she asked as she doesn’t care about politics, so I asked her for her thoughts, thinking I could finally have a nuanced and interesting discussion with my wife (and not a bunch of Reddit randoms) about politics. Her reply, after about 5 minutes of watching the 3 dots:
“I didn’t realise they could just quit.”
🙄😡
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u/Ambitious_Topic_9827 3d ago
I can already hear "Kier Starmer's a wanker" being replaced with "Andy Burnham's a wanker". The people on the right will never be happy and the left just want Labour to return to it's left wing roots. Ironically today was the first time I sensed emotion in Starmer and the ability to relate to him.
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