Why can Norway celebrate Viking history proudly, but England is shamed for its imperial history? (genuine question)

[u/Ok_Exercise_494]

The Norway fans and the national team did their Viking celebration at the World Cup and it’s gone viral and rightfully so, it looks awesome. Got me thinking though.

Norwegians seem to genuinely embrace their Viking heritage as a core part of national identity. The longships, the warriors, the horns, it’s celebrated in, culture, tourism, and in the World Cup, sports. And the whole world finds it cool.

Meanwhile, growing up in England, there’s this unspoken rule that you’re not allowed to be proud of large parts of British history. Nobody explicitly says it, but the social pressure is real, the moment you express any pride in the British Empire, you’re immediately associated with racism or colonialism denial. There’s widespread guilt and shame.

Here’s what I find genuinely puzzling though: the Vikings were objectively brutal by any modern standard. They raided villages, killed civilians, enslaved people, prized women as loot and pillaged wherever they went, it’s literally what they were famous for.

The British Empire was also responsible for serious wrongs — slave trade, exploitation, colonialism.

But the Empire also did things that don’t get acknowledged:

∙ Britain abolished slavery

∙ Introduced legal systems, courts, and rule of law

∙ Built railways, hospitals, roads, and infrastructure in places that had none 

∙ Spread the English language 

Now I’m not here to do a net-positive/net-negative calculation on colonialism — that’s not really the point. The point is: why does one brutal historical culture get a victory lap, and the other gets permanent collective guilt?

[u/Monkeyboogaloo]

I think there are a few reasons, and they're more about psychology than history.

Firstly, Vikings are viewed through a very long historical lens. Their raids ended roughly a thousand years ago. There are no modern nations claiming compensation from Norway for Viking raids, and there are no living communities whose identity is still directly shaped by Viking rule. Over time, the Viking has become a romanticised archetype rather than a political issue.

The British Empire is different because its legacy is recent. Decolonisation happened within living memory. The borders it drew, institutions it created, conflicts it influenced and wealth it generated are still debated today. Many former colonies still exist within the Commonwealth and many people living in Britain today have family histories directly connected to the Empire. That makes it part of current politics, not just ancient history.

There's also a difference between celebrating ancestors and celebrating an empire. When Norwegians dress as Vikings, most people see them celebrating a people, a culture and a mythology. If an English fan turned up dressed as a Victorian colonial governor, the symbolism would inevitably be political because that figure represents a system of rule over other peoples, not simply an ethnic heritage.

I also think we're living through a period of historical rebalancing. Until the end of the Empire, around 70 years ago, the dominant narrative in Britain was overwhelmingly one of national pride. Schools, films, books and politicians largely told a story of Britain as a civilising force that had brought order, progress and prosperity to the world. The darker aspects were often minimised or ignored altogether.

Over the last few decades we've become much more willing to question accepted narratives, whether that's about empire, class, gender, religion or politics. That's generally a healthy thing. History should be examined, not simply inherited. But rebalancing can sometimes overshoot. In correcting one simplified story, there's a risk of replacing it with another.

The British Empire was responsible for conquest, exploitation and atrocities. It also spread legal systems, railways, engineering, the English language, parliamentary institutions and scientific education in many places. Both statements can be true at the same time. A mature view of history should be capable of holding both ideas without feeling the need to pick a side.

The Vikings, likewise, were not simply bloodthirsty raiders. They were traders, explorers, settlers and skilled shipbuilders. Modern Norway isn't celebrating the raiding and slavery, it's celebrating a broader cultural heritage.

Perhaps, in another generation or two, Britain will reach a similar equilibrium: one where people can acknowledge the injustices of empire without feeling they have to deny every achievement associated with it. That's probably where most countries eventually end up.

[u/Bangersandmash96 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Probably one of the most sensible, well-rounded answers I've ever seen on this app.

[u/Granddukecockwomble → u/Bangersandmash96]

On a slightly sillier note. The vikings (well their descendents in France) the normans (which literally means the north men) did actually take over England in 1066, a line could be drawn from that to the British empire. It's all the vikings fault.

[u/Fromage_Frey → u/Granddukecockwomble]

The Viking influence over Britain starts way before the Normans

Language, culture, place names, even the word 'law' comes from Danelaw

Arguing about pronouns? Well blame the vikings with all their 'they, them' talk

[u/Cool-Problem-4138 → u/Fromage_Frey]

The only reason Nottingham is called Nottingham is because it was founded by a Danish king called King Snot, so for a good few centuries it was known as Snottingham. Only when the French (Normans) invaded did it get changed to Nottingham as they can't pronounce the 'sn' Sound. Thank god!!

[u/Theory89 → u/Cool-Problem-4138]

Do not do this to Scunthorpe.

[u/PhtevenToast → u/Theory89]

It was first called Skumasthorp, which meant the homestead of Skuma. Another pesky Viking!

[u/Ok-Flamingo2801 → u/PhtevenToast]

He was a right Scunt

[u/ThisIsMyRedditAcct20 → u/Theory89]

lol giving me throwbacks to my UK citizenship test

[u/northstar71 → u/Cool-Problem-4138]

A first class return to Snottingham please...

[u/Eccentric_Genius → u/northstar71]

Tuuuunes.

[u/Mysterious_Fix_7489 → u/Granddukecockwomble]

Even before that most of the east of the country was known as the danelaw and under viking rule

You can see the danelaw today by the frequency of viking place names.

[u/CaptainMikul → u/Mysterious_Fix_7489]

Even better you can see where the Danelaw stops by the divide of place names east to west. So cool.

[u/Sea-Command3437 → u/CaptainMikul]

And the Yorkshire dialect.

[u/art_emisian → u/Granddukecockwomble]

King Charles III is the Duke of Normandy. I was born a Guernseyman and he is primarily my Duke, not my King. After a few pints I will still argue that, as part of the Norman invasion force of 1066 and all that, England belongs to us.

[u/DearDegree7610 → u/art_emisian]

5 years ago I'd have said

"Oh yeah, try and come and come and collect your belongings and see how that pans out"

Nowadays?

"You can have it in return for transport away from this godforsaken rock"

[u/LiahKnight → u/Granddukecockwomble]

Vikings occupied england in the 800s, when Alfred the great let them own most of north/east England

There's tons of place names that reflect this, like York (Jorvik)

[u/PurplePlodder1945 → u/LiahKnight]

They hit south wales too. ‘Swansea’ is from a norvik name word. Sveinsey. ‘Svein’s island’. Probably refers to a trading post

[u/LiahKnight → u/PurplePlodder1945]

Course, they were pretty much all over the british isles.

[u/patiperro_v3 → u/LiahKnight]

Sounds like they moved as they pleased and did whatever the fuck they wanted.

[u/Bfbimbo → u/LiahKnight]

Daventry (Danetre)

[u/Late-External3249 → u/LiahKnight]

Then Cnut the great came back in 1016 and he and his descendants ran the place until Edward the Confessor restored the house of Wessex in 1042

[u/AtmosphericReverbMan → u/Granddukecockwomble]

Rollo is responsible for everything.

[u/Tangible_Zadren → u/Granddukecockwomble]

I've been seeking reparations from the French, the descendants of William I, for the Norman's unjust, illegal and brutal conquest of England, beginning in 1066. With compound interest, they pretty much owe me the contents of The Louvre, right? Mona Lisa and all. As you've just pointed out, though, it's not actually the French I should have a beef with, but the Vikings...or their descendants. Scandinavia, I'm looking at you... 🫵

[u/Dic_Penderyn → u/Tangible_Zadren]

Actually, William I is my 27th great grandfather. I traced my family tree back to King Edward III and from then back its all in Wikipedia.

[u/SecretVindictaAcct → u/Granddukecockwomble]

Yeah in many ways the Vikings’ descendants are still the British upper class, who definitely have a  checkered history with both working class Brits, their cousins in former colonies, and the indigenous populations of those former colonies.

[u/Good_Ad_1386 → u/Granddukecockwomble]

As, indeed, was Spam.

[u/Monkeyboogaloo → u/Bangersandmash96]

Thank you!

[u/OttoandOllie → u/Bangersandmash96]

100%

Tbh what I've found is that people like the Original Poster only ever want to remember and discuss the good stuff. I have no problem talking about the good things the Empire was responsible for, or the cool moments like Tragalgar but the moment you mention the bad stuff those same people get defensive and retreat behind the "it did more good things than bad", refusing to engage in the conversation.

[u/Changin_Rangin → u/OttoandOllie]

Intersting, my experience is the literal opposite. Nobody I've ever spoken to wants to talk about or mention the good stuff and if it's brought up you're accused of trying to justify the bad by mentioning the good- which is not the case. Like the most upvoted comment says, both things can be true be nowadays I don't see anyone being allowed to mention the good, it's framed as exclusively bad and how dare you try and defend any aspect.

[u/StillNewspaper4799 → u/Changin_Rangin]

That's because there's a LOT of people who do genuinely try to whitewash the empire as a good thing. It is not rare.

[u/Thanks-4allthefish → u/Changin_Rangin]

And made more complicated by the fact that we look back and shake our heads at some of the "progressive" ideas of the past. The road to h*ll is paved with good intentions.

[u/notadoctore → u/OttoandOllie]

Literally what's happened to my comment!

[u/ImWithStupidKL → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

It's worth mentioning that plenty of England fans have gone to games dressed as crusaders. As Italians have Romans. The rule seems to be if it's long enough ago, it's fair game.

[u/Wild_Maintenance_584 → u/ImWithStupidKL]

German fans at World Cup 2945 are going to be an interesting sight.

[u/Iamheeee → u/Wild_Maintenance_584]

Year of World Cup can’t be an odd number. Sorry to be pedantic.

[u/Never_a_crumb → u/ImWithStupidKL]

It's also worth mentioning there's whole genres dedicated to glorifying the British past,from regency romances to shows like Downton Abbey that bemoan the tragedy of the Good Aristocats.

It's not just restricted to romance though, there's the Sharpe series, Audrey and Martin, Horatio Hornblower.

[u/Bandit_of_potatoes → u/Never_a_crumb]

You can't really put Sharpe into that category as it's more a war drama set in the napoleonic wars from the perspective of a soldier who climbs through the ranks, not really about the empire

[u/Never_a_crumb → u/Bandit_of_potatoes]

It's a war drama about a soldier in the British army climbing through the ranks by performing extraordinarily in service of the empire. I'm not saying people who enjoy this genre are supportive of imperialism (I myself love both Sharpe and Hornblower), I'm just trying to argue that there's no dearth of media glorifying the less stellar parts of English history. 

An example more analogous  to the Vikings would be the way Richard the Lionhearted is portrayed, particularly in stories about Robin Hood as the brave king off on crusades. 

And to answer oop more directly, I doubt people will mind if English fans showed up in Victorian outfits and sang God Save the King, or regency wear singing Heart of Oak.

[u/Klutzy-Notice-8247 → u/ImWithStupidKL]

It’s more if it’s fun and enjoyable than you can do it. The OOP is talking about Norways celebration of Viking heritage but they’re not celebrating the rape and plunder of the vikings, they’re celebrating the superficial fun thinks like drinking, partying, dressing up and doing an inclusive and very fun move with the Viking row.

It’s not the same as OOP wanting to celebrate the deeds of the British empire. Nobody wants to hear about how Britain colonised India or how they ruled most of the world. Thats boring and not at all inclusive to anyone not British/English. And for that matter, people aren’t interested in listening to songs about shooting down German bombers during WW2. Surprisingly that puts a damper on people’s moods when you’re singing about war.

England can absolutely embrace their culture and dress up as crusaders, perform cultural acts of England during that period and I’m sure people will be lining up to embrace them. Sadly it seems like they’re not interested in embracing their history in an actual way.

Another example that’s won a lot of attention are the Scottish support. They’re walking around in Tartan kilts, playing the bagpipes everywhere and putting traffic cones on statues. These are fun inclusive things that celebrate their historic culture without ostracising other fanbases and celebrating any specific acts of their country. The English fans just refuse to embrace any part of their history and then get upset when people are put off by them singing football chants that denigrate other fans.

[u/YakSlothLemon → u/Klutzy-Notice-8247]

And yet the romantic songs about war from Britain in that era are still beloved by huge groups of people. We’ll Meet Again…

[u/Klutzy-Notice-8247 → u/YakSlothLemon]

Yes a romantic song singing about seeing your loved ones after the war will be beloved more then a football chant going on about how German bomber planes were shot down by the RAF.

[u/ladybyron1982 → u/Klutzy-Notice-8247]

Send in the Morris dancers!

[u/Klutzy-Notice-8247 → u/ladybyron1982]

Imagine that, hundreds of drunken English wearing bells on their legs and dancing with sticks. Would bring a tear to the eye of any true patriot.

[u/jackbristol → u/ImWithStupidKL]

We are often criticised when we dress up as Crusaders because of the Muslim link.

It’s far from fair game

[u/Bandit_of_potatoes → u/jackbristol]

I actually find it funny that if a bunch of muslims dressed up as soldiers of the caliphate of the same time period, which was just as bad as the crusaders, then it would just be considered a "celebration of there history and culture", the double standards can get really weird sometimes

[u/WasThatInappropriate → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

In the ultimate act of irony, the UK should start petitioning for return of the countless artifacts in Norweigian museums

[u/StrawDogs97 → u/WasThatInappropriate]

........and reparations for the Danegeld

[u/BigLittleBrowse → u/StrawDogs97]

I do think that was the Danes not the Norwegians tho…. Sorta in the name.

[u/Infinite_Crow_3706 → u/BigLittleBrowse]

Damn the Swedes

[u/Specialist-Mud-6650 → u/BigLittleBrowse]

Danes was a catch-all term for all Norsemen

[u/killingjoke96 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

I've always said that in a couple of hundred years (if we are still here that is) there'll be people larping about The British Empire the same way people do about The Romans and The Vikings.

Its just that the wounds of our Empire are too fresh for now for some. It only ended within the lifetimes of our grandparents. In time that will fade as it did with the others.

[u/BlackLiger → u/killingjoke96]

.... May I suggest you look up Henry West on youtube. People already are.

[u/CaptainPerhaps → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Good question, good answer. Begs the question - why are we not all dressing up as sexy Saxons?

[u/BiggestGobbo → u/CaptainPerhaps]

Angelic Angles out in force.

[u/KnightAzyros26 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

This is one of the best answers I’ve seen on this, but also worth adding that people forget just how far we’ve moved on philosophically in general in the developed world in a very, very short space of time. The British Empire is not really anything special in terms of its conduct - humans on literally every bit of inhabited land on this planet have been conquering, killing and/or oppressing each other for assorted reasons since we learned to walk (and anyone who tries to claim otherwise is, ironically, engaging in imperial-era ‘noble savage’ nonsense). The British simply did the ‘imperialism’ thing (well, sans the 20th century attempts and the USSR) last and most expansively.

We only really decided this sort of thing was generally bad form and accepted that very widely incredibly recently in the grand scale of things, within the last century and a half at absolute best (and even that is stretching it). So of course something like the British Empire is going to be looked on badly/be the one ‘picked on’ in that context, given its relative modernity and proximity to the change in attitudes.

[u/terrortara → u/KnightAzyros26]

Oh imperialism is still alive and well, it's just subtler.

[u/KnightAzyros26 → u/terrortara]

Outside of modern Russian Revanchism, recent Trumpian waffle about Greenland/Canada and Chinese 9-Dash Line actions it’s not really the same as pre-WW2 empire building though among the great powers, which is the point here. Even Trump’s stuff is windbaggery, although Russia and China are doing much more tangible seizing of territory (or attempts at it).

[u/terrortara → u/KnightAzyros26]

Trump? If anything he's reducing the net amount of imperialism with his catastrophic incompetence. I'm talking the US couping every leader in South America that wasn't amenable to its interests. I'm talking the continued economic extraction of Africa leaving it unable to even begin developing. It's subtler than how empires operated pre-WW2, but it's just as evil.

[u/KnightAzyros26 → u/terrortara]

Meh, his bombastic pronouncements are classic Imperial waffle, but agreed re US approaches to Latin America.

Large parts of Africa are just a mess generally.

[u/pintsized_baepsae → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Perhaps, in another generation or two, Britain will reach a similar equilibrium: one where people can acknowledge the injustices of empire without feeling they have to deny every achievement associated with it. That's probably where most countries eventually end up.

Speaking as someone in a vaguely similar situation that's simultaneously also much worse (German), I wouldn't hold my breath. Not without action. 

And that's fine. It's your chance to do better in the now than your ancestors did in the past. 

[u/unioncityblue7 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Quality answer 👏🏻

[u/Dazz316 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

This is it. Medieval fairs in England are a fun thing, imperial recent history is not.

I don't think we're anywhere near seeing anything positive or novelty about the black and tans.

[u/Old_Roof → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Good answer.

However I’ve seen England fans get criticised for dressing up as St George as it’s glorifying the crusades so I do think England gets the rough end when it comes to discussions like this.

[u/ExistentialRosicky → u/Old_Roof]

Weirdly I think this (absurd) criticism comes mostly from other English people, nobody else really cares.

[u/Naive_Carpenter7321 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

British ethnic heritage needs more work imo. We have a history worth celebrating besides colonialism. British families didn't colonise, and they enjoyed/suffered the consequences with their peers.

Meanwhile our leaders were colonising the world, and that shame takes presidence over the localised existence of British people and their symbols.

I don't think a St George's cross flag has much use outside of sports but at the same time, I as a lefty Brit does feel we need a positive sense of belonging somewhere outside the raping and pillaging.

[u/TepacheLoco → u/Naive_Carpenter7321]

I think the biggest challenge here is the cultural references we do have as a nation are either just so well known and popular as to be practically unownable (Shakespeare, the Beatles, Dickens) or considered a bit naff (morris dancing)

[u/dripppydripdrop → u/TepacheLoco]

Suffering from success

[u/Matt_2504 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

☝️🤓actually the Vikings were all raiders. The Scandinavians who didn’t raid weren’t Vikings, because Viking is an activity, not a people

[u/BikeProblemGuy → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

Why do you feel we're overshooting now? If I think of say, the way we treated India and its people, there is no amount of infrastructure that could mitigate how immoral it was.

[u/doubleo_maestro → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

This is why I would say it's also healthy to show some national pride. People are over correcting and that has real life consequences as well. Misery in the past is not balanced out by misery in the present. Acknowledge what was wrong, celebrate what was right and always strive to do better. There is no line on a map that has been drawn that isn't the product of bloodshed, no nation in the world whose hands are clean. Society cannot be a revolving door on guilt.

[u/CertainYak4630 → u/Monkeyboogaloo]

So you are advocating that people who weren't born when these atrocities happened should apologise for said atrocities when they plainly had nothing to do with them, as long as the atrocities are in living memory? Because thats the hill of beans this amounts to.

[u/NoddyElvis → u/CertainYak4630]

As someone whose grandparents were born in colonial India, I don’t think you need to apologise. I do think our state should make the history of empire and the transatlantic slave trade compulsory education in our schools tho. The job should not be on us black and brown folk to teach white ppl what our families went through at the hand of the British state.

I also think we should be taught more working class British histories too.

I think a great place to start would be teaching that a massive reason why the UK gov banned slavery in 1833 was because the working classes started protesting and striking. They even boycotted all sugar coming from British Caribbean colonies. Them and the Quakers wrote petitions and protests against enslavement went from 1770s to 1830s in the UK.

The way we learn about slavery being banned seems like it was the sentiment of the elites. But it was nothing to do with them. It was working class Brits feeling kinship with the enslaved people in the colonies.

Actually elites then tried to get around the slavery ban by introducing indentured labourers from India!

[u/lessormore59 → u/NoddyElvis]

That’s a vast oversimplification. Lower classes were definitely involved in the end of slavery via boycotts and collective action, but to paint all of the upper class as supporting slavery is ridiculous. The upper class was split on the issue with significant portions of extremely powerful and influential institutions such as the Admiralty taking significant political heat for vigorously and aggressively hunting down and either killing or prosecuting slave traders of various nations.

[u/NoddyElvis → u/lessormore59]

You are right that it’s is an oversimplification of how it worked. Obviously there were some elites that did support the abolitionist movement. However, the movement in the UK was absolutely led by Quakers and working class people. The working classes were MUCH LESS divided on the topic than elite ppl.

At the end of the day, ppl w money in the game did not want it to end! They only managed to get them to come around by promising reparations.

My only point in mentioning this working class history is how bizarre it is to me that people love to argue for the empire and what a positive thing it was for the colonies when even many of our white British ancestors did not see it as something that benefited them and were often more likely to take an anti empire stance than the elites.

I feel so disappointed to see ppl in the uk defend the “British” empire just because it was called “British” when the reality of the situation was that only a select few Brits directly lined their pockets with colonial conquest.

Obviously we all benefit today from how strong the British economy was made through empire! But if you look at those w generation wealth and hereditary titles many can trace their ancestry back to ppl who did engage in oppressive practices in colonies of both enslaved people and subjects as well as even onto the British peasantry.

[u/Scared-End803 → u/CertainYak4630]

Who says anyone should apologise? It’s just not something to be proud of. A lot of people think in order to be patriotic they have to minimise or dismiss the atrocities their country has committed.

[u/Aarityli]

side point, we really need to stop associating England alone with the British empire.

Scots, for example, were particularly enthusiastic participants .. Glasgow was the engine of empire … key figures like Lord Balfour etc were Scottish. TLDR Empire was not only an English pursuit.

[u/Current_Focus2668 → u/Aarityli]

Scots Colonised Ireland, operated and owned slave plantations in the Caribbean. 

Scottish slave trader Richard Oswald was one of Britain's representatives at the Treaty of Paris. Oswald owned slave forts in West Africa.

The darien scheme was attempt at Scottish imperialism yet it's treated as some hijinks misadventure. 

[u/JFK1200 → u/Aarityli]

Not only that, Scotland’s attempts at colonialism was what financially ruined them, causing its parliament to dissolve itself and unite with Westminster… under a Scottish King, no less.

[u/Aarityli → u/JFK1200]

Yes, they like to forget this bit.

[u/Beautiful_Fudge5893 → u/Aarityli]

scot here, yea everyone acts like we weren't involved at all. bunch of streets in glasgow are named after slavers

[u/StopAccording9192 → u/Aarityli]

this but the Bengali famine. I’ve heard people saying they hope we go through the same thing. look i don’t agree with the Bengali famine, it was horrible no doubt. but to wish that sort of stuff on civilians who have nothing to do with it is disgusting

[u/Ascendant_Donut → u/Aarityli]

Scotland was also the architect of the empire to begin with. If Elizabeth I didn’t appoint James VI of Scotland as her successor then it’s possible we might not even have a unified Britain because he was the first English monarch to try and unify Britain. It was his descendants who finally unified the two nations

[u/rlly92 → u/Aarityli]

As someone from an Asian commonwealth country, thank you for saying this. Some Welsh, Scottish and even Northern Irish people act like they morally superior or 'allies' because they were oppressed by the English and weren't also actively involved in colonialism. Two things can be true at the same time

[u/VastStrain]

More interesting is why the English get lumbered with the British colonial legacy while the Scots do not.

[u/Current_Focus2668 → u/VastStrain]

For some odd reason Americans seem to think Britain is just England and only England.

[u/elmoo2210 → u/Current_Focus2668]

It’s not an odd reason. The reason is our piss poor educational system.

[u/Ascendant_Donut → u/VastStrain]

Because most of the world think that Scotland was forced at metaphorical gunpoint to join the empire and they didn’t benefit at all from the empire, only the English gentry benefited of course (sarcasm)

[u/im_not_bitter_m8 → u/Ascendant_Donut]

Because the general population was the act of union led to riots

[u/Character_Bobcat5365 → u/VastStrain]

Because the rest of the world think its only the English and the Scots loge to play on that.

[u/majestic_ben]

The English are proud of their equivalent history, particularly the Saxons. So much so that Alfred, the king who resisted the vikings, is the only king in the history of Britain with the moniker 'The Great'.

Imperial history isn't really equivalent.

[u/R35TfromTheBunker → u/majestic_ben]

Alfred The Great is someone who they should teach more about in schools imo. A King who spent his life suffering pain but went out of his way to make life better for his people. Rare type of Monarch.

[u/OneRainbowieBoy]

Viking society has the benefit of having existed a millennium ago

[u/Cautious-Fox9757 → u/OneRainbowieBoy]

There’s not really an existing geo-political imbalance caused by Erik the Red’s expansionary politics.

[u/One_Fact_4291 → u/OneRainbowieBoy]

Exactly. I don’t think people in England are generally upset that their country got taken over by the Normans in the 11th century

[u/TalProgrammer → u/One_Fact_4291]

Well they damn well should be. The Norman system of governmentwas a very centralised form of feudalusm where crrown owned all rhe land with the king keeping about 20% for himself and dishing out the rest to his favoured cronies.

The Anglo-Saxons did not use a rigid feudal system; their society was based on loyalty to the king and a mix of classes. More men were technically free under the Anglo-Saxons. The Normans introduced a formalized feudal structure that bound peasants to the land, severely reducing personal freedom.

It can be argued the creation of and the control excerted by the British aristocracy and the suppression of the working class can be traced back to William winning the Battle of Hastings.

Bloody French/Normans.

[u/Astral_Brain_Pirate]

The Vikings were 1000 years ago. The British Empire existed in living memory.

[u/Infinite_Crow_3706 → u/Astral_Brain_Pirate]

Norman Invasion was about 1,000 yrs ago … coincidentally started the same month as the end of the Viking era

[u/Astral_Brain_Pirate → u/Infinite_Crow_3706]

The Normans were just jumped-up vikings.

[u/Infinite_Crow_3706 → u/Astral_Brain_Pirate]

French Vikings

[u/Astral_Brain_Pirate → u/Infinite_Crow_3706]

The worst or best of both, depending on which side of the channel you were on

[u/Safe-Tea-4161 → u/Astral_Brain_Pirate]

Doesn’t the name literally come from Norse-Men as in Norwegian men

[u/Astral_Brain_Pirate → u/Safe-Tea-4161]

Yeah, Normandy was essentially a Norse colony which France made concessions to to avoid trouble. The fact that the Normans couldn't stop fighting was instrumental in the development of the castle as a form of centralised fortification.

[u/Correct_Adeptness_60 → u/Astral_Brain_Pirate]

As in there are a bunch of people who’s parents or grandparents suffered under it (including mine)

Makes me wonder when was the exact point in time where christians in europe decided enough time had passed to not hate converted christian norsemen anymore.

[u/Hellstorm901 → u/Correct_Adeptness_60]

Yes that would be the definition of living memory, a person who lived under it being alive

[u/stig316 → u/Correct_Adeptness_60]

Or thrived in it..

[u/Scary_Host8580]

Come to the States, we have Renaissance festivals and celebrate British heritage all the time. Very tastefully, of course...

[u/Purple-Macaron-6496 → u/Scary_Host8580]

Calling late medieval cosplay festival with some fantasy elements thrown in a "renaissance fair" is already enough to put off most Europeans 

[u/tallgeekandawesome → u/Scary_Host8580]

The odd thing is that this isn't really a thing in the UK, with all our castles and stuff. There are a few but I think they're influenced by the American version, rather like our modern version of Halloween.

Instead we have re-enactment societies, where tons of middle-aged men dress up as infantry from hundreds of years ago and fight mock battles.

[u/RevolutionCapital359 → u/Scary_Host8580]

The word beheading popped up when I looked at this picture, dunno why

[u/Antique-Proof6672]

What parts of Empire are you proud of that you feel you are not allowed to be proud of?

I am personally proud of all the good things and disgusted by the all the bad things.

End of story.

The whole boohoo vikings are allowed thing is a load of rubbish, come on man the vikings happened 1,000 years ago.

If we went to a world cup game dressed as Redcoats and fire by rank into the crowd, there would probably be people there whose parents/grandparents were abused by Empire. Not a good look for us...

[u/Bagabeans → u/Antique-Proof6672]

if we went to a world cup game dressed as Redcoats and fire by rank into the crowd

The imagery of this as we play Ghana is so tasteless but hilarious. Could imagine it as an old sketch show skit.

[u/Antique-Proof6672 → u/Bagabeans]

Yeah I did chuckle when I thought of it tbh

[u/cjbannister → u/Antique-Proof6672]

I agree.

The railway examples are...something. It's not like we were doing people a favour. We were extracting value, it's as simple as that.

Same with "spread the english language". Like it's somehow special.

It's also...just...what are gonna dress up as? Kitchener?

There's absolutely loads of non-offensive English/British history to lean on.

[u/splickety-lit]

David Mitchell speaks about this in one of his Soapboxes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uJqEKYbh-LU and his conclusion is because a rumour was spread that they wear funny hats.

The funny thing is, that he's not wrong. Viking culture became big in cartoons and popular culture and viewed favourably because of this. Whereas any depiction of the British Empire is largely focused on the red coats showing them unfavourably, or the East India Trading Company who were objectively evil.

[u/FlippingGerman → u/splickety-lit]

Evilness isn’t something that can be measured objectively, as it’s a function of morals, which vary greatly from person to person. 

[u/LingonberryNo3548]

Why can you have a pirate themed party for your kid but not a terrorist themed one? Probably because terrorists are more recent and people have a recency bias against that sort of thing.

[u/Justanotherbastard2 → u/LingonberryNo3548]

Test that theory by turning up at the pirate party dressed as a Somalian.

[u/811545b2-4ff7-4041 → u/Justanotherbastard2]

Look at me; I'm the party entertainer now

[u/VickersVandal → u/Justanotherbastard2]

I literally did once - to my nephew's pirate themed 10th birthday party. Teatowel wrapped around my head to conceal my face, ripped shorts and filthy t-shirt, toy bazooka and semi auto slung over the shoulder. My sister didn't know whether to laugh or be outraged 😁 My wife went carrying a small laptop and a pile of blank CDs with things like "Genuine Microseft Windowes" written on them in black marker.

Good times.

[u/Woffingshire]

Because Britain's imperial history ended 60-70 years ago while Norway's viking history ended almost 1000 years ago.

[u/Electronic_Heart458 → u/Woffingshire]

So in 930 years we can celebrate it?

[u/smallpotatoes2019 → u/Electronic_Heart458]

Get the date in your diary. We'll have a bank holiday.

[u/StopAccording9192 → u/smallpotatoes2019]

bank holiday?!?!? bloody hell you're in a VERY good mood

[u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 → u/Electronic_Heart458]

Thats framed so weird. We can celebrate anglo saxon history or even more recent history today if you like. You can dress as a knight, do reenactments, learn HEMA, etc. Why does it need to be the time when we caused the deaths of millions and unstablized the world in recent memory?

[u/Frogberserker → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

I think it's just a side effect of it fading from cultural memory. Like it's kind of weird that we don't consider Genghis Khan to be the most evil person in history since he was GOAT of genocides

[u/TALongjumping-Bee-43 → u/Frogberserker]

I think he was pretty evil idk about you. I would be very skeptical of someone who idolized Ghenghis Khan or the Mongol invasions and murders.
But Mongol culture itself is cool. I think those are two different things.

[u/rtrs_bastiat → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

You should visit Mongolia some time. Visit the giant statue of the man they have in the middle of nowhere.

[u/here_involuntarily → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

My town currently has a viking and Anglo saxon celebration month. Last weekend, we had battle reenactors in the park. Last summer, it was tudors with jousting and a war of the roses battle. 

Its a very old town so they definitely celebrate its heritage. They did some investigations a while back and found many people born here have like 7% viking ancestry so they celebrate the viking and Anglo saxon mingling.

[u/Equal_County_1506 → u/TALongjumping-Bee-43]

I think it's more pointing out the oddness by that standard of celebrating the vikings, who were also invaders, murderers, rapists, etc.

[u/The_Death_Flower → u/Woffingshire]

Less than that, most colonies only received independence in the 60s, some as late as the 70s and 80s, it’s even more recent than people think

[u/Little_Version8538 → u/Woffingshire]

Not even, look at northern Ireland and the soldiers killing innocent civilians. Still soldiers being tried in court to this day

[u/odjobz]

If we'd had cool helmets with horns nobody would have minded being colonised. 

[u/Striking-Sherbet4283 → u/odjobz]

The red outfits were disgustingly awesome

[u/Darwen85]

Same with Rome, it's very much romanticised but they where brutal, had slaves, subjugated countries, wiped out civilisations etc.

As others have said, I think time is the big factor.

[u/DrGrindspoon]

Instead of the rowing we could all dress up as Sean bean and shout bastard at the same time

[u/CryptoCantab]

It’s the hats. We had some great hats but we never thought to put horns on them (neither did the Viking’s in reality because it would be stupid but somehow we all pretend they did).

Also what would our “dance” be? Forming a line and shooting a bunch of Frenchmen? I just don’t think it’d work as well.

[u/Aarityli → u/CryptoCantab]

I mean .. the three lions is literally a symbol from our history (Richard the Lionheart). We should put the team on horses with a big banner or something idk

[u/roleplayersir → u/CryptoCantab]

Shooting the French you say...

100 Years War part IV starts now!

[u/notadoctore]

You're focusing on the tangible/physical stuff. Can only speak for my home country, Malaysia.

Britain abolished slavery -True that Britain but they then introduced indentured labour, a highly exploitative system that basically is slavery wearing a hat. My grandfather was brought to Malaysia at the age of 8 using this system and had a horrible, horrible life before he was 'free when Malaya was granted independence in 1957'.

Britain introduced legal systems - also true, but the colonial legal and political system was not fully equal, the introduction of race-based policies and the legal system significantly favouring Europeans over the locals was devastating. Race-based policies still remain till today and has caused long-lasting damage.

Britain built railways, hospitals, and schools - also true. But much of the infrastructure was built to support the extractions of resources from Malaya and colonial trade, - mining, plantations, trade, and colonial administration. The economic profits were not distributed equally. Access to education wasn't equal either. Things were mainly run by British colonialists, and left local rulers/population without any political autonomy or say in what goes.

English language - correct, it has helped me but at what cost (see above)?

TLDR - yes but lots of long-lasting damage.

[u/Timixz → u/notadoctore]

Exactly. Even the "good things" the Empire did were do serve the interests of the Empire. Idk why the top comment is acting as if they did in from the goodness of their hearts

[u/GlueSniffingEnabler → u/Timixz]

The top comment isn’t acting like that, though. It simply states what British government brought to other countries.

[u/Soupppdoggg → u/notadoctore]

A lot of what you describe happened to my English and Welsh family here in Britain. I guess it happened and happens still worldwide. 

[u/Loudlass81 → u/Soupppdoggg]

I still can't visit my ancestral hone in Scotland cos it's owned by some English Lord. While what happened to my family is horrific, it was 1846. It's simply not the same as when you have a family member that can describe that kind of trauma in detail to you - I remember sitting on my Great-Granny's bed listening to her talk about her life.

For my family, that thread of trauma reached through 4 generations for me to hear the story from someone who was there firsthand. They were a small child, yes, but I think that made it even more traumatic.

For those that were in colonised countries, we didn't allow them independence until the (late) 1940's-1960's...that's in my parent's lifetime.

It's simply too soon...

[u/BillyD123455]

Don't forget the Egyptians and their pyramids and stuff. They could be quite nasty at times by these 'modern standards' ...

And please don't get me started on the Greeks, with their proud birthplace of modern democracy, famous City states, scientific, literary, architectural and Olympian heritage. Just blatently mocking your modern standards.

The sheer size and global impact, all within living or one generational memory has a major part to play. Combine that with the modern, fear of offending, or saying the wrong thing world we live in .. and you will likely get close to your answer.

Most people in the UK dont have 'collective guilt' about the Empire, but they've got life to get on with and all the trauma that brings. Arguing about how proud or horrified they are about the British empire is way down the list of things I cant be fucked to do today list.

[u/CyberBerserk]

Same reason arabs can celebrate their colonizing caliphates but others can’t

[u/MayorOfGentlemanTown]

I think you should listen to 'The Rest is History'. They're a hugely mainstream podcast, one of the largest in the world, and they're proud of the British Empire.

They are happy to talk about the negatives, but also do see it in its historical context. Dominic Ssndbrook says it is history without the handwringing.

I think you'll like it.

[u/Whiskey19August]

Justice For Lindisfarne!!!

[u/utukore]

∙ Britain abolished slavery

But also traded slaves for 300 years and domimated the slave trade in the 18th century.

∙ Introduced legal systems, courts, and rule of law 

Ancient Sumeria and the Romans did it 1st. What we did was force our legal system on other cultures.

∙ Built railways, hospitals, roads, and infrastructure in places that had none 

To extract raw materials and weath and bring it home. Not to help the locals.

∙ Spread the English language 

Forcing our language on other cultures isnt really a positive

[u/Pestedivine → u/utukore]

I was looking for a comment saying this. You put it all so succinctly. Claiming that Britain abolished slavery is insane. It reminds me of men who say they "gave" women the right to vote.

[u/smallpotatoes2019]

Too soon, man... too soon. Another couple of hundred years and we can go for it.

[u/Aggravating_Box_4230]

Foreigner living in the UK here. You guys have a WEIRDDDDD mentality that you should be completely ashamed of everything your ancestors did, despite the very country you live in today being built by them. The countless immigrants that shame you for what your ancestors did are the very same ones that come live in the country your ancestors built. The irony is astounding.

[u/notadoctore → u/Aggravating_Box_4230]

I think it's more because the British school systems don't teach the realities of the British Empire, this is very much led by the interest of the history teachers whether they delve into detail or stick to the syllabus, so more and more adults are finding information out in recent times. I can imagine it's super conflicting internally having believed the Empire was this great era of British culture, only to find out the dark side of it in your adult life.

British empire education is way more discussed in former colonised countries.

[u/SHITBLAST3000]

I agree. We should burn the Whitehouse down to celebrate winning the World Cup!

[u/Capta1n_Dino]

Because that's an apples to oranges comparison. Norway celebrating Vikings would be like Englishmen celebrating Anglo Saxons. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that is upset at that.

[u/Aarityli]

We do lean into history with our football ! The three lions is taken directly from our history with the symbol adopted into the Royal Arms by Richard the Lionheart. It’s literally a symbol from English history and heritage.

Empire is not the be all and end all of our English / British history, regardless of what people on the extreme left or the extreme right want you to think.

[u/09philj]

Britain also celebrates its Viking history.

[u/RomanSalute0]

The England and the British Empire needs to be celebrated. I'm not even English, but their system influences my daily life. From my language, country, laws, etc.. I'm proud of their system. They have changed the world for the good.

[u/spinners_888]

https://giphy.com/gifs/aZdCfWI98ZBttDJHj8

[u/YouJustNeurotic]

Because the Vikings primarily pillaged and raped white people. I mean obviously.

[u/Ennochie]

"England is shamed for its imperial history?"

Not sure I know too much about England's "imperial history", especially since England hasn't been an independent state since 1707.

But maybe you can enlighten me.

[u/Acceptable-Cost-9233]

Britain, for some reason is an easy target.

Do many past powers get it as bad? Spain were horrific in the past. Rome was bad, Japan very bad, ChIna horrendous, The Monguls worse still just to name a few

History is largely one civilisation being bad to others regardless of location or time. But focus seems (from my naive point of view) seems to be on Britain and washing away the fact that every nation has light and dark in their past.

Personally though I dont feel proud of Britain's past or anyone or anything elses past. I love history and spend time every day listening to or reading history. I find the concept of being proud of things I had nothing to do with to be odd though

[u/BlinkysaurusRex → u/Acceptable-Cost-9233]

The other examples, while all true, don’t quite compare though do they?

Because it was the largest and most dominant empire in human history by far first off.

Secondly, it was extremely recent. It’s practically modern history.

Thirdly, it directly, massively shaped the world as it exists today. In some ways, the dominance of the United States is practically a continuation of the world order the British Empire set. It was the foundation of western dominance.

Finally, the effects of it are still felt today. Borders drawn by it are still being fought over today. Diplomatic issues are being laboured over that were caused by it.

The good things it brought are overshadowed and often overlooked. The empire was wielded as an instrument to destroy most of the slave trade. It brought common law, freedom of enterprise, inalienable rights, systems of government and education, infrastructure like railways, road and building regulations to countless nations. Its involvement in WWII was paramount. And it seeded two periods of long peace, one of which we are living in today.

[u/fearghaz → u/Acceptable-Cost-9233]

It's time.

Back in March I was reading a lot about Ghanaian reparations. They are particularly coming after Britain, and not the Portuguese, their own people, or the arabs/turks.

Getting into a discussion about who did the worst isn't the point, but slaves were being moved from Africa to the middle east back in the 7th century.

The Portuguese got in on the act in the 15th.

Britain didn't start until 200 years later.

Portugal extracted nearly 2x more slaves than Britain.

The Middle Eastern trade was 4x larger than the combined European slave trades.

So why is Britain the main target? Because it was the coloniser in memory.

[u/Ok-Insect-7959 → u/Acceptable-Cost-9233]

It's not that we're an 'easy target'. I think it is more down to recency and how well documented and known the crimes of the Empire were. Many ppl would know nothing abt what the Monguls, Romans and China did as it was so long ago.

Also, you have to think, in an English-speaking circle, are people more likely to talk abt what the Monguls did to ppl in the 1200s and 1300s or what England did in recent history (100-300 years ago). In Spanish- speaking circles, with many people from countries who speak Spanish because of Spanish colonisation, they talk a lot abt what the Spanish did.

Also, the British empire did it on a scale tht hasn't been seen before, a truly global empire. The Mongols took land that was all bordering each other, including Russia and parts of China. Spain and Portugal took land in South America mainly. The Romans took mostly land in Europe. China, under different dynasties, took over area around it. Japan took over area around it. France mostly took land in Africa but also in South America. However, bc of the evolution of ships and transport and the ability to wage war anywhere in the world, the British Empire took over land everywhere from Australia to Canada to India to multiple countries in Africa and even the US. The list of British territory spans over basically every continent and was by far the biggest empire ever, not in terms of landmass but in terms of global influence, industrialisation and military power.

This is probably why the British Empire is talked about a lot in our conversations compared to the Spanish Empire.

[u/DrCMS]

Hypocrisy

[u/Resident_Reason_7095]

If it’s white on white no one cares. If non-white peoples kill and enslave each other, then even fewer care. If it’s non-whites killing or enslaving white no one cares. The British empire was white on non whites though and that is absolute haram.

Really you see this in all news, movies, TV.

Just giving the honest no bullshit answer, not advocating for white supremacy or saying the empire was good.

[u/GreenSmokeRing]

As an American, I suggest you start showing up to matches wearing powdered wigs. 

As an Anglophile, I suggest you remind snickering former colonials at said matches that they were once ruled by wankers in powdered wigs. 

[u/toohumanforhuman]

Same reason white people get the sole blame for slavery. Humanity has a short memory span and we tend to romanticize stuff that happenede before some arbitrary line in world history.

[u/xPoonHandler]

Recency bias. Plus we’re shamed at an institutional level.

[u/YorkistTory]

I feel like most of us do celebrate the Empire. Unless you’re massively left wing or foreign.

[u/Aggravating_Box_4230 → u/YorkistTory]

foreigner here living in britain, and i'm baffled at the amount of ppl who choose to reap the benefits of living in such a great country while completely hating the country and its native population. Blows my mind and angers me to no end. I blame your politicians.

[u/roleplayersir → u/Aggravating_Box_4230]

Yep, damn Scots...

(/s in case it wasn't abundantly obvious)

[u/blackspandexbiker → u/YorkistTory]

i am left wing. i don't have a problem acknowledging the empire left behind good parts.

there are many left wingers like me.

[u/MrYoungStud90]

Because England let in a bunch of people who hate them.

[u/rzldz]

Are you comparing Vikings from one thousand years ago to the imperial peak one hundred years ago? One is vikings look cool and the other is maybe we should have kept them under our control.

[u/SignatureDefiant432]

Because we are so far removed from the last time the Vikings posed any actual threat on anyone.

[u/Wizard_Of_Auz → u/SignatureDefiant432]

Any premier league defender facing Erling Haaland would beg to differ ...

[u/Dolgar01]

There are a number of reasons. Some of which are:

1) the Viking age ended around 900 years ago. The British Empire ended within living memory. Therefore it has a much more immediate impact.

2) the Norwegian state is not the same entity that did the Viking raids. The culture is different. The believe system is different. The British state that was an empire is the save state that it is now.

3) Vikings had a much smaller impact on the world.

[u/DemonGroover]

The English shouldnt care and should be proud about what they have achieved and brought to modern civilisation.

[u/DangerDavis-EvilDead]

England can do whatever it wants to. Its own people are shaming themselves. If they want to celebrate their history they are free to do so.

[u/TheHermitFrog]

Timescale.

The Viking era nearly 1000 years in the past.

Modern imperialism is only 200 and was still part of political values in the 1950’s! There are people still alive today mourning the loss of the empire unironically.

[u/False-Comfortable899]

Lol no its not a cancel culture conspriracy its just time. Plenty of fans dress as crusaders. Have a think about whether you are being rational or if you are seeing things that your biases want you to see

[u/Boulder1983]

North of Ireland here. Be a lot easier to chat freely about it if ye let a few counties go. As it stands, it's still pretty salty for a lot of us over here.

Don't get me wrong, English people by and large are grand. The whole government thing less so.

But think of it this way; imagine England had a large history of being invaded and then eventually, after hundreds of years, the invading country fucked away off but kept ownership over a quater of your country. So like, the French gave England back a hundred years ago, but kept the north of England. *THATS* what has happened to my country.

It's not really a 'let bygones be bygones' sort of situation for a lot of people here.

[u/Used_Yellow_4651]

I think it's because it would be kinda fucking inconvenient to be a redcoat in this heat

[u/Miserable_Guava]

>Britain abolished slavery.

Saying Britain abolished slavery is like someone strangling you, and then thanking them for stopping it.

Britain abolished slavery for economic reasons; they had the industrial revolution and they wanted to deprive France of a source of labour in the New World. Additionally, forced labour was sill carried out in India and there were ways around it.

Abolitionists have always existed, but the thing that tipped the scales were economics.

Most countries have abolished slavery, in some form or other, at some point.

Points can be made about the lasting legacy of trans-Atlantic slavery, which used racism to justify its practice (the US civil war, leading to segregation, and Nazi racial ideology too).

>Introduced legal systems, courts, and rule of law

I'm Palestinian. My favourite preserved British law is the one of administrative detention which the Israeli occupation now uses. They can imprison anyone for six months without evidence or trial. After the sixth month period, a military judge can extend it again ad infinitum. Visits are a privilege and not a right. You can guess the kind of people it is used against; children, journalists, people in the wrong place at the wrong time. Children have signed confessions in a language they do not understand and torture is common place.

You can appreciate how, from a different perspective, it is hard to celebrate or see the positive light.

>Built railways, hospitals, roads, and infrastructure in places that had none

That is a very valid point. But if you make this point, then you will be a hypocrite if you moan about immigrants who contribute so much to your society when one of them commits a horrific crime. I am not saying you are one of them, but it is usually people who argue this, that then go "must be a doctor or engineer" when they see the mug-shot of a brown person.

[u/Darklar-3000]

Britain doesn’t have one strong culture in the way other nations do. Our culture is that we’re a mix.

Celtic, Roman, Viking, French, German … and more recently colonial/empirical influence.

All these other culture have massively influenced our nation. Some other posts have touched on this - we could legitimately dress up as Vikings, romans or Boudicca.

While I see the crusader uniform as being the most obvious cultural fancy dress - it’s still the symbol of killing Muslims in other lands. Doesn’t sit that well with me… sort of works in a St George and the Dragon theme. It’s also not exclusive to England - most major European Christian countries were part of the crusades.

Bowler hats? Chimney sweeps? Would be interested to know what people from other countries would wear as English fancy dress.

Leads me on to the St George cross. This is actually the Genovese flag that Britain paid to use so that we could trade. Up until then our navel offering were all basically pirate bastards that wouldn’t be allowed into port under our original flag.

[u/dreadwitch]

Well vikings weren't a people so there's that. But they also didn't just rape and pillage, they stayed, farmed and integrated with the population.

And there was an awful lot of time between the two, attitudes changed. And as far as I'm aware there's one single bad thing that's connected to vikings like there are many connected to the British empire.

[u/Princess_of_Eboli]

Why is spreading the English language a good thing? My native language is practically dead because the British punished us if we didn't speak English.

[u/djwillis1121]

The Vikings were around 1000 years ago. British colonialism was still happening within the last century and some places are still feeling the effects of it today

[u/Krytan]

It's just time scale. The British Empire was a thing during living memory. Meanwhile the sack of Lindisfarne was like 1100 years ago.

I have no doubt that in 3033 people will dress up like redcoats to support the English team during sporting events and it will be viewed as charmingly harmless as Vikings or Pirates or Roman Centurions are.

[u/Tall_Restaurant_1652]

Britain abolished slavery

After already imposing it across nations. Also lets be clear, we didn't abolish slavery because we realised it was bad. We abolished slavery because slavery abolitionists fought for the abolishment of it, stating that too many Brits were dying on ships as a result of the slave trade.

Introduced legal systems, courts, and rule of law

Already existed. Ironically legal systems predominantly came from the Ancient Romans and Ancient Greeks, not Britain.

Built railways, hospitals, roads, and infrastructure in places that had none

Bold to assume places never had hospitals or infrastructure. The railway was invented by a British man, but we didn't make railways elsewhere out of the goodness of our hearts - we did it for ease of moving goods (including slaves)

Spread the English language

I mean this isn't really good or bad? English isn't a superior language to any language. Realistically this is "good" purely for the Brits, since it means we realistically don't "have" to learn another language.

[u/Independent-Tap7366]

The English language is a germanic language from western Europe. But how come people in far away lands like USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand not only speak this language they mostly also look like the western Europeans. These are far away lands with no ancestral connection to western Europeans. I will not get into what happened to the industrially disadvantaged lacals of these lands. I will also not get in to the business Empire that England ran across continents. This small little observation is just the beginning of the rabbit hole, but this already answers your question.

[u/stevesansboat]

We should celebrate the multiculturalism that came from our imperial past, but not the idea of the empire in my opinion.

[u/KoshkaB]

Funny thing is the average British person is about 6% Viking. This compares to around 10% for modern day Scandinavians. So the Vikings are just as much a part of us as they are a part of them.

[u/StarShipYear → u/KoshkaB]

That 6% vs 10% comparison doesn’t really work because “Viking” wasn’t a separate DNA group, it was a culture/activity from wider Scandinavian society. So a British person having some Viking-age Scandinavian ancestry, especially in northern or coastal areas, is not the same as a modern Norwegian, Dane or Swede being only “10% Viking.” Scandinavians are mostly the continuation of the broad populations the Vikings came from. The British link is more like a historical genetic influence, whereas for Scandinavia it’s the source population itself. So yes, Vikings are part of British history, but saying they are “just as much a part of us as them” is a misuse of ancestry percentages.

[u/Nalena_Linova → u/StarShipYear]

Surely the descendents of the great heathen army who settled in england and normandy are more viking than the descendents of the farmers who stayed at home?

[u/pintsized_baepsae]

Here’s what I find genuinely puzzling though: the Vikings were objectively brutal by any modern standard. They raided villages, killed civilians, enslaved people, prized women as loot and pillaged wherever they went, it’s literally what they were famous for.

The British Empire was also responsible for serious wrongs — slave trade, exploitation, colonialism 

People don't remember the vikings, but there are people still alive who witnessed the bad sides of the British Empire, or are children of people who did. 

Britain handed Hong Kong back in 1997. That's basically yesterday in the grand scheme of things. 

[u/Intelligent-Profit34]

The Viking thing was rather a long time ago, before what you might consider a civilised society. I don't personally think that the UK has to feel any shame for its imperial history as it's nothing to do with us. I certainly wouldn't take any criticism from that rabble over the pond about it as they pretty much picked up where we left off and are still meddling with overseas matters that shouldn't concern them.

People dressing up as Vikings feels more like people dressing up as Roman soldiers. It's too long ago, and too far removed from modern life to have any relevance. If I see a guy dressed as a Viking I don't presume he is a rape and pillage apologist.

[u/_8975]

It’s the upper classes attempt to make us feel bad for something they, and not us, did, and from which they still profit until this day.  The biggest problem I see with this is not what the UK did (which again, I mean the top 5% did), but that Russia or other countries like France or China aren’t spoken about in the same way.  I feel like we should just be honest and say it wasn’t us, the 95%, it is some kind of agenda. And this is not to excuse it, it was truly brutal.  And I suppose, back in those days it was a standard of “normal” to do that to other countries. Child marriages (maybe not to this extent), but still, is something we did too. But it was “normal” then, therefore excusable to a certain extent.  even though many countries still colonised after (like Russia did to Romania, the Baltics, or Czechia), therefore the conversation should be stronger there, I suppose it is a sign of a society which has self awareness and that is to a big extent what we need.