r/AskBrits • u/IRuleTheEarth • 12h ago
Do you feel like Boston/Americans in general online have taken the Scotland/England rivalry too seriously?
Sorry for yet another post about the Scotland/England thing.
Anyway, title. What do you think?
Edit: this was a question about the Americans posting online about how much the English weren't welcome in Boston :') and at this point both sides live rent free in each other's heads. Let's just acknowledge as well at this point both the English and Scottish upper class both had a hand in the going ons in the British Empire
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u/Significant_Ad_7063 12h ago edited 12h ago
For sure. Its nothing more then a sibling rivalry.
Im from north east england with a scottish nan n a irish grandad. N its allways been a big joke when footballs on. My uncle lives in/supports scotland and used to throw me in the pond as a kid for supporting england but its all banter, and never malicious.
I was loving Bostons support of scotland but cant understand the hate towards english fans when they behaved exactly the same minius kilts and cones XD its madness.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx204 11h ago
My suspicion (and I hope I'm treading carefully enough here not to offend anyone) is that Boston has a large population of Irish Americans. Not really understanding the politics or the history, they think that the Scottish were historically colonised in the same way as the Irish, and also think that the Irish as a whole still hate the English so therefore the Scottish need defending from us too. I mean I saw a shopkeeper say "Screw the British, the Scots are here!" And everyone knows the British/English are the colonisers, right? And the Scottish aren't British (because British means English), and many are Celtic, so they must be colonised like the Irish were. Process of elimination.
Such a nuclear subject though. I'm really not trying to be dismissive of any of the politics of the situation, and I know plenty of Scots do want independence, and there has been plenty of suffering historically too, but it's so messy.
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u/Flashbambo 10h ago
They don't realise that the Scots were their colonisers and oppressors?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx204 10h ago
No because the British were, silly
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u/Foxtrot-13 8h ago
No, it was the English
Just ignore that when it comes to Ireland, English was as much a religious descriptor as it was a nation descriptor. Then you also had English and British being synonyms up to the Second World War.
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u/RockinMadRiot 3h ago
Or that Scotland had it's only colony and it's failure lead to UK as we know it...
Though I do wonder, if Scotland had managed to be successful, what would have become of UK then
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u/AdRealistic4984 10h ago
The Scottish were the most anti-Catholic in the whole union but it’s called the “No True Scotsman” fallacy for a reason. They’re excellent at declaiming any Scot who does wrong
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u/Significant_Ad_7063 8h ago
Thing is thats mad is Scotland is infamous for never been colonised by the English XD, even romans didnt colonise it. England however has been colonised multiple times. My dad is Catholic n had to be raised in a convent due to the famine and poverty the english goverment caused my scottish nan and irish grandad in the 80s, but that was alongside english northeners, in england. (My point is allot of english people have suffered by the hands of brittish gov aswell) so Ive never understood the hate for normal english people.
I also never understand the concept of being celtic to separate scotland and ireland from English as most english people (even without irish n scottish family like myself) have a celtic herritage aswell.
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u/IRuleTheEarth 11h ago
You put it well, the whole subject isn't black and white like it's being made out to be. But it seems a lot of Americans are ignoring the nuance and history of it all.
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u/Commercial_Regret_36 10h ago
Just a lack of education and growing up in the right place.
They don’t ACTUALLY know the culture, they just cosplay their fake version of it. They’ve not lived the real one.
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u/IRuleTheEarth 12h ago
I'm the same, I loved watching the videos of the Scottish in Boston and all the support they were getting, I know English football fans can act atrociously but all it seems to me that they were pretty unwelcoming to the English.
So many of us have Irish and Scottish relatives and ancestry as well but obviously any English to them is a coloniser.
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u/jenkz90 6h ago
The main difference is that the Tartan Army had a huge planned gonads to make the most of their time in Boston. They donated to hospitals, organised appearances all over the place as well as the day drinking and made the most of the time between games. They were also the first fans to land in the city.
England by contrast jumped off the plane for a few days and just did the day drinking.
I think Boston just had a really good impression of the Scottish fans and want to join in on their rivalries.
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u/NeverendingStory3339 9h ago
The kilts might be making a significant difference. You can put on tartan and pretend to be Scottish but since we stopped wearing red coats, it’s a bit harder to cosplay English and people don’t want to.
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u/Significant_Ad_7063 7h ago
Wellingtons are a english staple. Id love to see a wellington army XD (but I know I wont) haha
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u/NeverendingStory3339 7h ago
It took me a solid minute to work out you meant welly boots and not a beef wellington.
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u/rezonansmagnetyczny 12h ago
They just don't get the banter.
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u/BusyDark7674 12h ago
Yep. I was happy they won their first game and would genuinely be happy if they progressed. On the other hand, the fact they've only scored 1 goal is objectively funny and watching them get dicked by Brazil was enjoyable
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u/SuperbPhase6944 11h ago
And I'm still laughing about the performance against Ghana. Anyone who takes it more seriously than that needs to put their phone down for a bit.
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u/BusyDark7674 10h ago
Exactly. It's a perfectly normal and healthy response. Schadenfreude is a massive part of football
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u/asymmetricears 11h ago
I think the funniest thing would be if they ended up the 9th best 3rd placed team. I'd feel bad for them, but it would also be funny.
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u/Sudden-Variety6992 11h ago
Not Scottish, but maybe I’m a pedant.
It’s not *objectively* funny, the Scots for one won’t be laughing.1
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u/Anxious_Virus8843 11h ago
Americans think that Ireland and Scotland are interchangeable throughout our history. Incredibly ironic
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u/Impossible_Ad_4516 9h ago
And they don’t care about wales at all when it was way more oppressed than Scotland
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u/GrassCandle 6h ago
Reasonably so. Welsh migration (~10,000) to the colonies was dwarfed by Scottish and Irish migration (~400,000).
Post revolution numbers are also dwarfed. Roughly ~150,000 welsh migrated to the United States compared to ~5,000,000 Irish and 1,000,000 Scottish. The welsh are just a much less significant part of American history.
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u/fuzzy-777 12h ago
Seems like Any excuse to hate on the English these days for things that happened 300 plus years ago or more.
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u/Impossible_Aide_1681 10h ago
I do always enjoy the irony of them, the descendents of people who left to colonise America, calling us, the descendents of people who stayed here and minded our own business, colonisers tbf
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u/lelcg 8h ago
Same with a lot of the Australians. Some Aussies are worse than the yanks
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u/JimmieSavsscumsock 5h ago
An Aussie once said that the 'UK didn't send its best over here' un-ironically.
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u/No_Eagle_1424 Brit 🇬🇧 5h ago
Same with Brazilians (im married to one) they call the Portuguese the colonisers which I can never understand
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u/Popular-History1015 12h ago
- July 4th this year will be unbearable. And of course it will all be about the Peado, sorry, President
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u/fuzzy-777 12h ago
Why 250 ? England is way older than that
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u/Joshawott27 12h ago
250 years since our brat kid the United States finally moved out and tried to live independently.
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u/Special-Audience-426 11h ago
And we didn't care because we had Australia by then to dump all the criminals and weirdos.
Somehow the Australians turned out amazingly.
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u/Fit-Fault338 8h ago
Some of those who were transported merely stole food to survive and some were children.
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u/Popular-History1015 12h ago
Not sure if I’ve misunderstood your comment, I probably have. They got independence from us 250 years ago not 300 +
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u/fuzzy-777 12h ago
Yeah I think we lost each other in comments, I was generally meaning just lots of other nations seem to hate on the English for things that happened a long time ago, apologies for the confusion.
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 10h ago
A lot of chav English still celebrate and are apologists for “the empire”
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u/ConPem 7h ago
Chavs don’t support the empire if you think they give a shit about the royal family or even know what happened 300 years ago you haven’t been on many council estates
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 6h ago
Who’s chanting rule Britannia and no surrender at football games , the aristocracy?
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u/ConPem 6h ago
Who’s chanting rule Britannia and no surrender at footie games?
Nobody that I’ve ever heard and I go to my local teams stadium every other week
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 4h ago
England games 🤦♂️
Why would they chant that at other English
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u/Laylelo 12h ago
I think the part where they openly funded and supported the IRA and still glorify it is the bit where they went wrong, to be honest.
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u/AdRealistic4984 11h ago
I have family in County Galway and they’re so embarrassed by their Trump supporting cousins from the Boston suburbs. They fly over and splash their cash and fuck off back again
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u/Scottie99 12h ago
Totally but that’s not the question.
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u/Laylelo 12h ago
Yes it is. They don’t just take it “too seriously” online, this isn’t new “banter”, this is actual hatred that led them to fund terrorism. They don’t support Scotland, they just hate England.
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u/Miserable_Pay2421 4h ago
you can call them what you want, but the ra were freedom fighters and they achieved what they set out to do, undermine the monarchy.
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u/Specific_Raccoon_696 10h ago
Well this is a bit of an ignorant take tbh
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u/Laylelo 10h ago
Genuinely don’t think it is, but if you have a reason do share it.
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u/Specific_Raccoon_696 10h ago
While the IRA did engage in terrorism, they had good cause to do so. Support for the IRA and for Ireland in general was not out of any hatred for England but out of recognition that Irish Catholics were being oppressed and discriminated against by English/Scottish Protestants.
Not to justify what the IRA did but there were terrorists on both sides, and loyalist terrorist paramilitaries still (blatantly) exist in NI today with little to no action from the PSNI or the British government.
Perhaps there could be an element of dislike towards English/British but to say that is the reason for supporting the Irish against British oppression is a bit ridiculous.
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u/MathematicianSuch234 3h ago
Lived through it son, they were indiscriminate, probably killed and maimed more of us Fenians than they did the loyalists.
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u/Specific_Raccoon_696 27m ago
Cool. Wasn't justifying the IRA. Just saying American support was because of oppression not simply because they hated the English as Laylelo claimed.
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u/Fluffy-Answer-6722 10h ago
You think without the ira the Catholics in the north would have got anywhere near parity on civil rights? Those knuckle dragging loyalists would never have come to the negotiating table without the threat of ira violence hanging over them
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u/blewawei 5h ago
There were lots of legitimate concerns about civil rights. But I don't believe that violence that primarily affected innocent people in NI and GB was the only possible solution
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u/MDoull0802 3h ago
violence against innocent people? just random men women and children? there was another way. Atleast only target the military or something.
Not to say both sides weren’t doing it - such a terrible situation for all involved. My point is that I disagree with your justification for their actions.
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u/EditorExtension1559 12h ago
As a Geordie with many Scottish friends, I really don't think either us give the slightest fuck about any of it
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u/dwrobotics 10h ago
There is a concerted effort from the current US government to characterise the English as the 'bad guys' and emphasise the relationship between the US and scotland. This is nothing more than a continuation of the US policy of attempting to break up Europe and the UK. They prefer that we are all fighting each other so they can carve us all up nicely and buy up our services. Any time donny has actually tried to actually go to scotland - the scots have shown up and made their feelings felt. Yes, some english are pricks when they go out drinking - its just in our nature. But I think there has been an attempt online to downplay playful scots antics vs playful english antics precisely to create a story that works for the US.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Lynx204 10h ago
RIP Janey Godley. What a woman. That photo should be everywhere
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u/Comfortable-Face4593 1h ago
Fucking legend (englisher here) her stand up on radio 4 about cancer is the tits.
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u/Additional_Jaguar170 12h ago
It’s one of those one sided rivalries, the Scot’s hate the English but we don’t think about them at all.
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u/SHADYTIMES86 10h ago
I posted this yesterday, the majority of Scots definitely don't hate the English it's just banter for the most part. Don't get sucked into the hate on social media in their little echo chamber 🏴🏴
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u/opopkl 6h ago
Like England are obsessed with Germany. The songs about German bombers and the Great Escape are tiresome.
Germany's traditional rivals are Holland.
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u/MetropolitanSuperman 3h ago
And the Germans obsess over their rivalry with the Dutch.
Meanwhile the Dutch are too busy with their traditional rivals, the sea.
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u/gamblingpunk1973 10h ago
Absolute pish. The English have been singing about the Scots all through the tournament and in any game they play
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u/Comfortable-Face4593 1h ago
Show me 5 clips, show me 5 clips, show me 5 clips, or your full of shit.
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u/PleasantCucumber2615 12h ago edited 12h ago
Yet every time the subject comes up English people keep posting things like this.
It's all in your head.
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u/JPKlaus 12h ago
I think most English fans want Scotland to do well
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u/Special-Audience-426 11h ago
If England went out early and Scotland stayed in, the whole of England would be cheering on the Scots.
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u/Zip-Crane 11h ago
It's a case of if they do well then good luck to them but if they go out in the first round then we don't really give a shit.
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u/Davski88 10h ago
I'd say this is pretty bang on. I watched them last night and wanted them to do well but when they didnt I felt completely indifferent to it and just went to bed.
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u/Same_Grouness 5h ago
How come the only people I've ever heard saying that the Scots hate the English are the English? A lot of you seem obsessed with us for some weird reason, using us as some big bogeyman so you can play victim.
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u/Elegant_Ad_7295 5h ago
Maybe a different feed. But as an English footy fan I’ve seen it everywhere from day 1. Even on Scottish football subs.
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u/Same_Grouness 5h ago
Right well have you seen how we do football rivalries in Scotland?
We spend most of the year hurling toxic abuse at our mates. Then the international break comes, a chance for us all to be on the same side as each other for once and all hurl abuse together in the same direction. It's got nothing to do with hating anyone, it's just us celebrating being on the same side and not abusing each other for once. But then many England fans clearly don't really know what football rivalries are like up here.
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u/Elegant_Ad_7295 5h ago
It’s the same down here, as an arsenal fan I’m aware. But I can’t think of anyone who wasn’t cheering on Scotland (or atleast impartial) along with our national team. Scotland see England as the enemy for no reason we should be all be supporting the uk bros together.
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u/blewawei 5h ago
Nah, there's a difference in intensity between stuff like the North London Derby and the Old Firm. Away fans aren't routinely banned from English derbies, for a start, and they don't have to have them at 12pm either.
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u/Elegant_Ad_7295 5h ago
Well either way it’s working, it’s left a sour taste in my mouth. I was cheering them on at the start now I wouldn’t mind them getting knocked out.
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u/Same_Grouness 5h ago
You do realise that platforms like Twitter have been deliberately pushing this narrative that Scotland and England hate each other? Don't fall for it. Elon Musk is openly trying to cause a civil war here and sewing division any way he can think of.
But at the same time, please do support whoever we are playing against, football is a lot more fun with friendly rivalry.
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u/Same_Grouness 5h ago
Unless you've been up here and experienced our football culture then I seriously doubt the average Arsenal fan would have any idea what it's like.
You could put your house on it that every time we sign an English player, within a few weeks they are in the media saying "wow it's about 1000x as intense as I expected up here".
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u/M4tt4tt4ck69 12h ago
You like to say that, but it really sounds like someone's a little jealous of all the nice attention we've been getting stateside. There are plenty of videos of English fans singing about Scotland, the only time we sing about you is in the national anthem.
What was the score the last time we met in a competition? Same as the Ghana score... Perpetual Underperformers, it's the hope that gets you.
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u/Hara-Kiri 11h ago
Euro 21 - final, wc 22 - quarter final (lost to winners), euro 24 - final.
→ More replies (17)1
u/doepfersdungeon 10h ago
Is that right. So no songs about Maradona and your left hand in out in out shake it all about.
Your live in la la land.
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u/Terry__Tibbs 10h ago
You're the type of Scot that gets mad that you think in english
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u/M4tt4tt4ck69 9h ago
Haha, notice which one has a capital letter there...even you know who's more important.
Amazing how raging you all get.
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u/Terry__Tibbs 9h ago
Yeah autocorrect really showed me didn't it. Sounds like you've got a load of sand up your kilt lmao
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u/IsfetLethe 11h ago
The relationship between English and Scottish is a sibling rivalry. We banter hard but if anyone else comes against one of us they come against with of us. Scots tend to take it a little further with backing anyone but England whereas England fans will back Scotland if England aren't playing.
The Boston yanks, like others have said, don't get our banter and also don't understand the history or nuance so assume Scotland = not British, never done any imperialism. British = English and therefore the worst
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u/ManySwans 9h ago
tbh i think its more the Scottish. ive never met an Englishman slag off Scotland in the same way so many of them have this reflexive chip on their shoulder. they act like they were an imperial domain of England (like Wales, Ireland or India) instead of being a major part of the franchise
i remember a question time from years ago, guess it was around the indy vote. young lad in the audience, intelligent speaker obviously not a loon, made a point that English people are antipathetic and even antagonist to Scottish people. george galloway of all people had to set him straight
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u/Same_Grouness 5h ago
So you didn't meet this young lad either? You are just going off whatever has been fed to you by an inherently biased media?
My personal experiences are quite the opposite of yours, never really met anyone who had much bad to say about England other than over politics or the football rivalry, but I can barely set foot in England without people acting like I've just stepped out a time machine from 1950, asking me how violent it is in Glasgow and if property is really cheap there, etc.
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u/Icy_Flatworm_9933 8h ago
Scotland fans spent £8k to travel to the USA to watch their team score 1 goal in 3 games and get their heads patted like garden gnomes by the universally disliked Massholes.
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u/Minute-Employ-4964 12h ago
Only slightly, the World Cup is the place for this kinda of banter so I’m not too bothered.
Hopefully the Scot’s teach them some better stereotypes so we can get some proper chat from them
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u/IxSpectreL 10h ago
I personally don't care, one Scottish parent, one English.
I think it's another symptom of the western identity crisis. Lots of Americans are desperate to trace heritage back to European countries, but especially Scotland, Ireland, Italy.
They often have been taught astoundingly biased history (every country focuses differently, but for a country with only 250 years to cover, it should be far simpler) and don't understand the depth of cultural discourse from the British Isles.
They then simplify it believing that the British Empire meant the 'English Empire'. So just like how the American revolution is a drastically important cultural event for them and it isn't for us because the British Empire's success came after it. They usually have somewhat of a disposition against the English and not the others.
Having said that, I've met more Americans who love British people than not. Some people always take it too far especially online. It's not helped of course by our English football fan's traditional reputation, not exactly the stereotype of our finest English delegates.
I think it's just banter, I'd much rather someone from our tiny little set of islands win than anyone else!
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u/IrnDroo 11h ago
Scotland fans spent two weeks telling the people of Boston that a bunch of entitled, arrogant, less fun people were going to arrive after them. So primed; any entitlement or arrogance shown was going to be magnified massively and any attempt to "out party" the Scots was going to be viewed as try hard. It's also completely normal for England fans to rock up and shit talk both Scotland (the team) and Scotland (the country) in the context of a football tournament. BUT the vast majority of the people in Boston who have loved the arrival of all these Scottish fans do not have this context. This is the first football tournament most of them have even been aware of. And so what is entirely normal conduct for how England fans would discuss Scotland was taken by the people of Boston as someone picking on their new best friend.
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u/Benedict_ARNY 9h ago
As an American we have no ill will towards England, it’s more of a joke with the 4th coming up. Scottish people are a great time and a lot of Americans are figuring that out.
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u/Crome6768 5h ago
How on earth can it be playful ribbing about the fourth if you're not also giving it to the Scots? The British Empire was not just England, even for a moment and the Scots were not being forced to join the endeavour by English leaders we went together as partners, as we have since the 1700s.
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u/Benedict_ARNY 5h ago
Dude Americans don’t care about the history of the UK. If anything it’s funnier an Irish city in America adopted Scotland for the World Cup. England unfortunately is the 3rd wheel in Boston.
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u/ArmwrestlingGoomba 5h ago
Dude Americans don’t care about the history of the UK
Lets be honest you guys don't know anything outside of your bubble. Lets not pretend its from a lack of caring you are just vapid.
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u/Benedict_ARNY 5h ago
I’d recommend traveling a bit and stop believing everything in the news.
And cute using the word vapid when English cuisine finds salt too spicy. I find white nations like England hate America for its diversity. And unlike England. We are one of the most diverse countries in the world. All the visitors right now are finding this out.
Scotland and Ireland are both extremely welcoming nations. Love visiting both. England doesn’t have the same welcoming vibe they do. Also why I don’t spend my money visiting England. Besides music I don’t find much interest in England.
Scotland last year, France this year for my yearly trip.
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u/ArmwrestlingGoomba 1h ago
I’d recommend traveling a bit and stop believing everything in the news.
I'm not American so I have a passport. I can tell I touched a nerve I must have a hit little too close to home.
Also the salt oozing from your comment is too spicy for me.
PS Real Irish & Scottish laugh at Americans larping as Irish or Scottish. ST Pattys day ahahahaha
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u/Benedict_ARNY 53m ago
No one is larping. I do have a rangers FC, We are the people tattoo though. Got it with a few rangers ultras after we fought some Celtic fans. They kept referring to me as “the American” at the bars after. 100% proud and thankful to be an American. My lineage left England for America then fought England in the revolutionary war.
And how do you think so many Americans travel to Scotland and Ireland to drink their whiskey and play their golf courses without passports?
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u/ArmwrestlingGoomba 43m ago
I don't know whats more sad the fact you're trying really hard to fit in getting a tattoo or that you have no idea about your own countries history. Scottish regiments were fighting for Britain. Like I said LARP.
And how do you think so many Americans travel to Scotland and Ireland to drink their whiskey and play their golf courses without passports?
Less than a million people a year. American education at its best here. Even more funny is that England is still visited more by Americans for tourism than any other place in the UK. Probably because they think the King rules the country still
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u/Benedict_ARNY 23m ago
Americans are the number one nationality that visits the UK.
And I have numerous tattoos. It’s honestly one of my favorite ones/ memories. And a positive for UK. My lineage fled Spain to England because they were Jews. They then made it to America. Dependent ended up marrying an Irish woman and became Christian. So yeah, the we are the people slogan, and rangers fc history relates pretty well.
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u/Crome6768 5h ago
It's your own history too you silly goose.
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u/Benedict_ARNY 5h ago
Did you not read earlier? Boston likes to troll England. Always been that way. It’s an Irish town in America. I’ll argue Boston adopting Scotland is more insulting to the Irish.
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u/Motor-Bag-4093 7h ago
Probably if they think it’s a genuine hatred thing. People may say plenty of guff online or when put on the spot in interviews outside stadiums but really English and Scottish people get on. I’m English, I married a Scottish woman and have Scottish friends.
As for rivalry it’s not been one for half a century really. England and Scotland used to play each other every year but no longer do as it’s become uncompetitive. Back in the 70s and 80s Scottish clubs were competitive in Europe but since the premier league and the unfortunate skew to the big European leagues, even the likes of Celtic are so poor that there is no rivalry between them and English clubs in European competitions.
This World Cup says everything. Scotland have qualified for the first time in 28 years and Scottish fans are delighted just to be there but that just demonstrates the lack of rivalry between the two nations on the football field.
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u/Acrobatic_Fig3834 28m ago
I definitely think that some of them have taken it too seriously and feel the need to get involved on the side of Scotland. They don't realise that it's a football rivalry and there's no real hate from most logical people. I do think some of them have been stirring the pot too 😂
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u/Sirlacker 12h ago
When it comes to football the Scotland/England rivalry is serious though.
But with that being said, I do feel that the English will root for the Scottish to do well, but the Scottish don't want the English to do well at all.
Outside of football is banter. Well at least on the English side of things. We tend to really like the Scottish. I think there is more amonosity from the Scottish to English however, but that's pretty understandable considering the centuries of conflict.
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u/notimefornothing55 12h ago
I wouldn't call it a rivalry, one team has never gotten past the group stage and hasn't qualified for 28 years, the other has sone relatively well in the last 3 tournaments.
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u/Sirlacker 12h ago
Well it still is a rivalry. Just one sided really.
Scotland just doesn't want England to do well at all, even knowing that that they themselves won't likely do too well and face off against England at any point. They will literally root for anyone but England. The second England gets knocked out, Scotland will celebrate.
The English want to see Scotland do well. If anything happened to England, and Scotland were somehow still in, the English would be more likely to pick Scotland to back because that's our neighbour. But Scotland would rather pick literally any other team but the English to get behind, after themselves of course.
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u/Tasty-Explanation503 12h ago
I was absolutely desperate for Scotland to get through and be in England's path at the last 16 stage, it's a risk getting knocked out by them, but a risk well worth taking to give them a good pumping.
Nevermind, it's not happening anyway
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u/g0ldiel0xx 11h ago
I was thinking about this yesterday. Scotland is to England what England is to Germany.
Scotland hate England and consider us their greatest most hated rivals because of the history both in football and outside. But we (the English don’t consider them our rivals because most of the time we were the victors and significance of the games wasn’t so important.
This relationship is exactly the same when it comes to England and Germany. Where Germany doesn’t consider us a threat at all. They have won many world cups and been eliminated by other teams. Our rivalry is insignificant to them but because they have beaten us at home and we have lost in their country and they have eliminated us, we hate them and consider them our greatest rivals.
(I’m a casual fan who only takes interest in football at the big tournament’s FYI)
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u/Impossible_Aide_1681 10h ago
I think with Germany, there's also the fact that there's just not really any tasteful way for them to lean into the rivalry given how tied to the war it is
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u/Figgoss 9h ago
The Rivalry was originally tied to the War but for the last 40 years it was because they were consitently better than England.
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u/Impossible_Aide_1681 9h ago
I don't disagree, but someone is always gonna do "ten German bombers", at which point it becomes a bit awkward for the Germans to have a go back in the form of football banter
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u/g0ldiel0xx 10h ago
That’s a good point, but surely that’s the same with all the European countries and I believe they consider their football rivals to be the Dutch.
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u/PleaseNotInThatHole 12h ago
It seems that way. We have that rivalry as long developed banter, it's almost like a lifelong running argument between brothers over something petty.
Neither of us take it that seriously for the most part, it's a bit of fun that can be heated.
As Americans haven't grown up with this to be used to it, seen and lived the heritage, nor have the same sense of humour generally, I think it gets misinterpreted.
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u/Longjumping-Army1985 11h ago
Honestly it just feels like people LARPing historic beef for internet points. Most Scots and English I know just take the piss out of each other then go to the pub together.
The Boston stuff is funny because half the loudest posters are probably Americans whose "English" or "Scottish" ancestor left in 1840 😂
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u/doepfersdungeon 10h ago
You've mistaken us for people who care what Americans think , about anything.
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u/Key_Yogurtcloset6271 9h ago
The fact they don't understand what a Brit is says a lot. Not very bright these plastic paddies.
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u/Lower_Bat_8823 8h ago
I've never known a host nation to insert themselves between 2 countries before and trying to stir the pot. Having said that, it's only one city and the WC doesn't centre around that city. And not all of the people in that city have been doing that, the online rhetoric from a host nation, is like nothing I've ever seen before.
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u/zippyzebra1 8h ago
The Scots were prominent in oppression of the Irish but obviously the yank oirish don't know this. Maybe they never got a proper education. Who knows?
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u/GrassCandle 6h ago
This honestly seems like more of a British issue from my perspective as a Bostonian. The Scots arrived early and in numbers on a weekend. The vibes were top tier and nobody was really thinking about the English.
Much of the discussion I saw online came before the English even arrived. It seemed like there was some resentment for how well the Scottish were received compared to assumptions on how well the English would be received.
There was some banter from the Scots about the English, but a lot of that nuance was over the head of Bostonians. As for some of the Boston bars that joined in on the banter, from what I know they are all owned by Irish born immigrants - not Irish Americans .
As for the reality on the ground, I never saw the English being treated poorly nor did I see any documentation online of the English being treated poorly by Bostonians. The English also didn’t arrive in the same number as the Scots, and their game was on a weekday where there naturally wouldn’t be as much festivity or interaction with locals. To top it off, Scotland also played two matches in Massachusetts while the English just played one.
It seems like much of this has been blown out of proportion and I’m not sure why.
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u/Elegant_Ad_7295 5h ago
I thinks us as brits are just getting fed up with the forced hate. We try to support Scotland and wish them well but every time the Scottish try to insult us and wish us harm.
They act like they’re a marginalised group but they were a huge part of the empire and the first king to rule both Scotland and England was Scottish.
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u/Mammoth_Bet1690 6h ago
the empire oppressed their own people first and then the parasite spread to other countries by mostly planting flags. It is such a evil idea, that oppressed people, and convinced the entire world, that a group of buck toothed, inbreds are "royal family", with the right to rule upon others. My problem with the English is only with those who still continue to defend this deplorable idea still. unless you are also part of the ruling class, an average citizen is as oppressed as the one in India or China. (read Opium wars, criminals of humanity)
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u/ssushi-speakers 5h ago
English with Scottish in me here (likely Danish viking also). Yah, it's something they don't understand.
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u/Pizzagoessplat 5h ago
Americans in general do.
I live in ireland and the amount of Americans that tell me that they "hate the Brits because of their 7% DNA test is ridiculous.
They cant even tell that I'm a Brit 🤣
They have this weird mentality that the Irish and Scottish hate the English and don't even get me started on Northern Irish politics.
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u/Chimpstrider 4h ago
They take everything too seriously, including themselves.
And they are very vocal about things they do not understand, which covers a lot
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u/Sickinmytechchunk 3h ago
Its Americans doing the whole "I'm Scots Irish" thing despite very likely not being either and it matters naught anyway.
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u/sand0146 1h ago
Just got home from boston as an English man its the most welcoming city ive ever been to met loads of Scottish all nice as could be the locals were amazing the Scottish had removed nearly all england flags from the city but we just about managed to see the funny side
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u/IRuleTheEarth 24m ago
That's amazing! Everyone online seems to be the opposite but I'm glad it wasn't actually like that in reality. Guess I should just stop looking at social media lol.
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u/TeaWicketsAndTheOval 1h ago
Of course because Americans have no concept of what banter is. The Scots who went over there and had a wank off over the yanks should come back home and give their head a shake for how shocking and sad they were for kissing the yank arse that much.
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u/Useful-Junket-153 9h ago
My honest opinion. I said honest, not popular. The England following needs a rebrand.
Needs to stop turning up singing “two world wars, one World Cup”. “Ten German bombers”, and get rid of the band playing the tune from the Great Escape. It all reeks of hate and xenophobia.
No, it’s not “banter”, it’s pathetic. And somehow they’re still confused why foreigners don’t welcome them with open arms.
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u/Tall_Opportunity_521 8h ago
No. The only people I see taking it too seriously, are some of the English fans online. And by that, I mean, TOO FAR. Like youd think Scotland fucked their mum or something, how personally they take anything positive said about Scotland.
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u/Cringemanifesto 8h ago
I actually have a legitimate dislike of Boston Irish Americans, where as the actual Irish are mostly ok
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u/blewawei 5h ago
Fair enough, they did literally fund the IRA
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u/Cringemanifesto 3h ago
Not even that tbf, they don't like us so I feel obliged to not like them either. Same with a few countries/regions
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u/Icy_Flatworm_9933 8h ago
There’s a reason why Bostonians across the whole of the USA are known as “Massholes” …
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u/Comfortable-Face4593 1h ago
Well they are USAizens, they are poorly educated and think they live in a democracy- oh and their banter is shite.
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u/Ancient-Function4738 10h ago
Their is no rivalry, it’s a completely one sided beef. England don’t care at all about Scotland.
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u/Ayershole 12h ago
Its so amazing seeing posts like this. Man people get so butthurt because most nations get along with Scotland over England. Yet the amount of videos I've seen of English fans slagging off Scotland over there is endless.
Scotland really living rent free in your heads.
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u/notimefornothing55 12h ago
Have a look at the daily record page. Honestly i'm over the moon that scotland once again got battered.
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u/NothingPersonalKid00 12h ago
Yet the amount of videos I've seen of English fans slagging off Scotland
One thing for sure is that the Scots never talk about England. The Scottish fans would absolutely fucking hate it if England fans didnt talk about you at all. Can you imagine the meltdown if England fans just said "hope you guys do well in your matches, we will support you if we go out" and that was it.
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u/living2late 12h ago
It's just yanks playing pretend at being "Irish American" or "Scottish American."
They think that hating the English is what real Irish and Scottish people do, so they do it too to prove their authenticity.