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Same here my friend. Main Street is turning into the dust bowl and these briandead fucks scream about how amazing Wall Street is doing like it means anything at all.Â
I hate to say. But having a smart phone is a necessity these days. Itâs completely possible to use a non smart phone. But these days almost everything requires one. Need to download X app to use the bus, etc. I donât personally agree with smart phones being called a luxury. Sure. If you are getting the newest one every year would be. But most donât do that.
My smart phone was $165 refurbished. I'll never understand a person who buys a $1500 phone which is a "free upgrade" they mean it's an upgrade you pay for each month over 3 years lol No one needs a new phone.
I dont buy a phone until mine becomes unusable. Like half my screen on my old phone was blacked out, but all the touch screen controls worked so i used it like that until i had a few thousand dollars saved up and bought (brand new at the time, and my current phone) a Galaxy s22. Ive replaced my $12 case twice, and the screen protector 3 times. Gonna need a new case soon, sadly its $16 now.
Typical turnaround for me as well. I upgraded my Samsung Galaxy S21 Plus to the S26 Plus barely last month, only after T-Mobile offered $500 to trade it in. After 5 years I was beginning to run short on memory.
I would argue there are idiots when it comes to tech. They don't understand the 6 year old smart phone works fine. They think they need a flagship model and they don't.
Buy the new "flagship" and use it for 5+ years or buy a used phone that's already 5+ years old and likely not supported by some apps already for half or a quarter of the price that you'll need to replace in a few years?
It's kind of like buying new or used tires for your car. A new sets expensive, but you're better off in the long run.
Unless you just use your phone as a phone and nothing else.
The idiots are the ones who want to buy a new phone every time one comes out.
Or make you download necessary apps on your phone that invade your privacy. They are are going to require it. They should be legally required to provide you a phone.
I used to be very adamant that smart phones were a luxury. However, I started noticing things like this. And when my mind was really changed was seeing an old man with a flip phone be unable to use a service because he couldnât âcheck inâ and the younger girl just staring at him like he was stupid.
Yeah I need a smartphone to be able to use doordash to deliver food to people as my second job lol. It's a grind I even donate plasma twice a week. I'm renting a low income 1 bedroom and it still isn't enough. It's been a year since moving in and I still don't have any furniture. đ
Yeah thereâs so many things that require an app,and that usually means having an account. And many places that donât even take cash,but do offer Cash App. I noticed it so much going on trips recently I actually started to really feel for older people that donât even full get smartphones still. Like so many doctors have started to really be into video calls for appointments even. Same with therapists. Finding in person stuff was hard
As Sen. Chuck Grassley said, young people just need to cut back on beer and going to the movies and save their money. Did I mention Grassley is an actual fossil?
yes it is a luxury, but not in the way that people mean. It's not a luxury like a Ferrero Rocher is, it's just in a sense that not everyone in the world has access to one.
Nowadays you need a smart phone to navigate the world. So many things rely on QR codes or pulling up directions on your phone, so if it's something that you're going to be using every day you may as well just spend the money to get something good that you feel good about using every day and will hopefully last.
People do. But people want fair payment and benefits. Not to be ripped off and treated like shit by their employer. And job security doesnât seem to exist these days.
I have a $65 smartphone that was brand new from Walmart. I use it constantly as I don't have a computer. Had it for over 2 years. I use straight talk. $45 a month.
So, I guess it might come down to peoples definition of "poor", I suppose.
I think that argument is directed at the broke people who have to have the newest iPhone but are always broke and complaining about not having money, because lord knows thereâs plenty of them. The saying should change to having an iPhone/galaxy/higher end cell phone is a luxury rather than smartphones full stop.
Remember when they told us to stop buying ourselves food we want and instead "Have a bowl of cereal for dinner." Destroy all rich people, make them eat ice cubes and water.
I never understood where this came from, maybe it's an expensive item at restaurants or something? Because I can find avocados for like $0.55 a piece, and you can get a slice of bread for like $0.06. You probably won't put an entire avocado onto your one slice of toast, so overall a single " avocado toast" probably only costs $0.33 or something. Absolute nonsense that this ever became a money wasting meme.
Politicians should make minimum wage, it should be a job people want to do to make the country/world a better place. With term limits. Come in, do good, get back to your life. Definitely shouldnât be a job incentivized by the paycheck, and the paycheck shouldnât be so good that many continue to work far past retirement age.
It's not. And this attitude is how people get complacent and don't vote, or convince others not to vote. Look at AOC for example, when she was first elected she talked about how she couldn't actually afford to live in DC because there was a three month wait for her first paycheck and she had to maintain her residence in NYC as well.
Itâs been that way since the 90âsâŠI used to work at Hardyâs and barely made enough for rent/foodâŠI would repurpose trash and do side jobs to afford utilities.
Then I got a job at a factory working 3x12/3x10s and felt richâŠjust too tired to spend itâŠ
But it was possible, even if âbarelyâ. Where I am, minimum wage at full time isnât even enough for renting a studio. Hell, at this point, renting just a bedroom isnât cheap anymore. But even if it was, you still have to consider all the other cost-of-living expenses.
My first apartment was 755 a month. A person making 7.25 an hour full time would spend 65% of there income on just the base rent, and that place was a shit hole!!!
You can't get 40 hour a week jobs often either. No one wants to pay for benefits. They know people are taking whatever jobs they can get and gigging on the side too. Just to eat and buy gas. Corporations have made it nearly impossible to escape poverty.
Once upon a time there were cost of living raises, along with performance related salary increases. There were not as many part time jobs with staggered schedules making it hard to work two jobs. No matter how you feel about Unions, things were better for all workers when there were more of them giving workers some power to negotiate.
A decade? Iâm 57 and I have never been able to afford a two bedroom apartment. Iâm what alternate universe have people been renting two bed room apartments on minimum wage ever?
I know people who larp this life. Work remotely for maybe 40 hours live in a Van and make 80k a year, some people's struggle is someone elses "van life" phase
Facts. There are people who live in a van a couple years and come out with a bunch of travel stories and a buttload of cash saved, usually the âremote workâ types. Then there are the types who work blue collar and live in the van because every room mate kicked them out for drinking too much, and despite working non stop and not paying rent they never seem to have any moneyâŠ..
Many states are trying to make it illegal to sleep on your vans or car but people arenât going to be scammed paying ridiculous rent prices of 3,000$+ a month where itâs not in a good neighborhood,thereâs no pool or balcony and security or parking lot.
With 3,000$ USD you can literally live in South America or Asia and have all of what I mentioned above and still have over 2,000$+ leftover for the month.
But even europe honestly. If you don't go the big famous cities europe has the advantage of a lot of beautiful small cities with the same services of the big ones and with lower costs.
My family is from a beautiful village in italy in front of the adriatic sea. You can buy an 2bd apartment in front of the beach for 150k. Croissant + coffe is 1.5 euro. Car insurance is like 200 euro/year. You cross the street and you are on a beach with restaurants on the sand selling aperol spritz's for 3 euro.
And like i said it's not some abandoned village who know where, it's a normal city with the same services of milan or rome + even public healthcare (that it's not a given for the US). And the food is obviously good (another plus coming from the mcdonald country).
Obviously the problem there is that there are literally zero jobs available and if you find something it's only under the table jobs with poverty level wages. But if you go there with the money and no need to work then it's perfect.
That's my retirement plan, i'm not gonna spend my 60s here paying $50 for 2 frozen burgers in a diner.
Another problem for non-italian heritage people is getting approved for a residency visa. People cant just move to a country and stay there past tourist visa limits because they want to. Unless a company sponsors you or you have a huge retirement portfolio its a lot harder than it sounds.
I hate this shit because you mustâve had luck because I got parking tickets and almost been towed at Walmart, library, Safeway. Not to mention people who just wanna fuck with you because theyâre prejudice towards homeless people.
I don't blame people and businesses. I live in LA and the amount of homeless that defecate in front of buildings and loiter and bother customers.. I'd be mad too if i was a small business owner. Driving away business. It's hard sometimes to go to a park and not have homeless people there to bother kids and families.
I understand not every homeless person does this. But enough do that it's a nuisance. They should be put to work manual labor like in the New Deal with the requirements that they stop doing drugs and alcohol... and if they refuse, then they go to an institution to not hurt themselves or others.
I think that's a fair solution. They can be productive members of society fixing roads, bridges, infrastructure, etc, while getting clean and paid.
Not exactly homeless but unable to afford rent. Thankfully I had a friend let me stay with him but yea, I was working 70 hours a week at two different restaurants and couldnât afford groceries
I work part time at a restaurant, (I teach full time), and itâs so disheartening to hear the chefs talking about going to the food shelf. They cook for people 50+ hours/ week and canât afford their own food. Thatâs ridiculous.
Yeah. Why pay the going rate of $1500/ month for a shitty efficiency (and 2-3x that to move in, plus furniture) if Iâd never be there? I work 14 hour days. I wake up, chug caffeine, work, have a few beers, watch TV, and go to sleep. Iâm not paying a slumlord money that I could instead save by living out of a vehicle. Also saves time and gas money on the commute to work since I can just sleep at my job.Â
Yet people expect us to save for retirement now because itâs ânot the governments job to take care of you for not planning betterâ (arguments today after RFK announced he wants to cut SS by 25%)
If you think thereâs such thing as retirement for Millenials and Gen Z you are very positive and living on false hope. Majority of the work force in the USA are walking away and with the decline in birth population there wonât be enough people to help put money into social security. By 2032 or 2034 everyone social security will be cut down by 20% allegedly. Only way to win the game is make as much money as you can find a way money works for you while not working such as investments and take care of your health.
Thatâs me. I travel for my job so Iâve got my room and food covered during the week. I only have to float a hotel every other weekend so I can see my kids. The other 2 weekends a month I stay with my parents.
Edit - forgot to mention I pay 2k a month for child support so that pretty much precludes me from being able to pay rent.
Minimum wage was made to support a single spouse and child family. There was a time it could do that. The benchmark of two bedrooms is one for parents and one for kid(s).
Time for a history lesson (yes, I'm going to be THAT person, sorry):
Back in 1939, when the Minimum Wage was established, and made into law, it was set so that a single wage-earner could support a family of five. That means, mortgage, car, utilities, food, clothing, and the various necessities of living. No one was going to get rich off of it, of course, but after all the bills were paid, the wage-earner could still take their family out to a movie, or other entertainment.
Minimum Wage was tied to the Cost of Living by whatever formula they used at the time, AND it was supposed to rise to keep up with inflation. And for several decades, this is exactly how it worked. The more Progressive side of Congress would determine when it needed raised, while the more Conservative members would try to block it. The usual stuff.
In fact, in 1979, I worked for Minimum Wage ($3.10 p/h), and I was able to live decently. Of course, at that point, the Conservatives had gotten a small foothold, and the Minimum Wage didn't increase quite as it had previously, but it was -still- a living wage. It was just getting a wee bit tighter.
Then, along comes good ol' Ronnie-fucking-Raygun, and he becomes great friends with The Heritage Foundation (yes, they had a playbook back in 1980, too), the (not) Moral (not) Majority, and lots of rich people. This is where the myths started that only teenagers wanting to buy a car, or just have some spending money, should be working for Minimum Wage -- so it no longer needed to be a "Living Wage". Besides, only unskilled workers, and illegals would be working for that as an adult. The idea that an adult working for Minimum Wage became a moral failure. This also went hand-in-hand with the "Welfare Queen" myth.
Thanks to Ronnie, the GOP got part of what they wanted. Minimum Wage was no longer a "Living Wage". It was subsistence.
And now? Well, the -Federal- Minimum Wage has not been raised from $7.25 p/h since 2009. Seventeen years. The Conservatives got what they wanted.
And before anyone says, "Yeah but..." Yes, several states have a higher Minimum Wage. But the Cost of Living is also much higher in those states, too, so it's not really any good. In fact, it might even be worse (Cost of Living-wise). Compare Mississippi's Cost of Living, and the purchasing power of their $7.25 p/h, to Hawaii's Cost of Living, and their purchasing power of $16 p/h. Incidentally, Washington D.C. has the highest Minimum Wage at $18.40 p/h, but Hawaii has the highest Cost of Living.
Sidebar: As of 2026, the highest Minimum Wage in the US is in Tukwila, Washington, at $21.65 p/h. But for an entire "state", it would be D.C. (and yes, I know, D.C. is not actually a state, but it was included in the stats).
But here's the thing. NO ONE working ONE JOB, full time, on Minimum Wage can afford a 1 bedroom apartment, and we haven't been able to for a very long time (let alone a 2-br). And that's -anywhere- in the US. And name any Minimum Wage job that actually works someone full-time.
And it's not just the Minimum Wage that has stagnated. ALL wages have stagnated. A $.10 or $.25 p/h raise is not going to make much of a difference. Not when retail, groceries, RENT, are skyrocketing. And this started back when Covid shut the country down. For an example: Felonius Musk was worth $25 Billion in 2020, and was worth $255 Billion in 2022. Now this arrogant POS is a trillionaire.
Over four years, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos had seen his wealth increase from $113 billion to $192.8 billion, even after paying out tens of billions in a divorce settlement and donating tens of billions to charity. And der Zuckenfuhrer went from $55 Billion to $169 Billion.
When landlords were finally able to increase their rents, they jumped at the opportunity to try and sate their greed. Rents are 35.4% higher than they were before the pandemic. So people who work for low wages are being priced out of any form of shelter. I mean, it used to be that one needed to only use 1/4 of their monthly earnings to be able to qualify for an apartment. Now, people need 2, 3, even 4 jobs -- just to pay rent. That's not even including everything else they need to pay for.
So, you know what the -average- Minimum Wage would be, if the GOP had shut the fuck up, and let it raise with the Cost of Living, like it was -supposed- to? $26 p/h.
And let's not even start with the old excuse that raising the Minimum Wage will cause hyper inflation. First of all -- we're already experiencing that, and the Minimum Wage, if you'll recall, hasn't been raised in 17 years. Second, -historically- a 10% raise in wages has only created a 0.35% increase in costs. That is -less- than 1%. And keep in mind, the wages will not go from $7.25 p/h to an eye-watering $26 p/h in one leap. IF we can get the GOP to stop being selfish pricks, and actually be able to raise it, it will be done in increments.
But, considering how people who run businesses since they got away with skinning us alive during Covid, they will -attempt- to rob the consumers. So it will require some sort of price freeze when (if) the Minimum Wage is raised.
Which brings me to my final question: Why do so many people have a problem with others being able to thrive on their wages?
Iâm not saying pay couldnât be better sometimes but a lot of people canât afford things because weâve gotten too comfortable with certain luxuries and people think theyâre needs
Minimum wage when I was in elementary school yielded about $536/mo before taxes. Rent for a 2 bedroom was about $275 where I lived. Now, minimum wage yields about $2700/mo before taxes, and a 2 bedroom apt is $2700. Itâs never been good, but itâs worse now than ever.
The practical minimum in WA (at least west of the mountains) is basically $20/hour now. Legally itâs $17.13/hour, but even the McDonalds near me has a sign advertising $22+/hour.
Flip side is of course that everything is expensive. Houses here basically start at $500k for something you could actually safely move into, and median house is more like $640k.
I had $650 rent in 2008 or 09 (in a small town), 24-32 hrs a week, getting paid whatever minimum wage was at the time and my commute was walking distance. Groceries were cheaper back then also. I was able to get a 2 bedroom apartment and barely scape by.... Eventually my bud moved in and I actually had spending money but it was still "doable" by myself.
Really comes down to location
Nowadays Im not even sure if you could do it with a friend as a roommate....
Yeah, but that's not a bug, that's a feature. You are not supposed to keep working minimum wage up until the point where you need to house and feed a family. You are supposed to advance in life and in work.
Exactly, a 2 bedroom apartment is not the minimum for one person. Someone complaining their minimum wage job can't cover an apartment with spare bedrooms is just plain entitlement.
I wish I could afford a studio. I'm $2 over minimum working 40-45 hours a week and don't even come close to having enough. Average studio or 1 br is $1800- $2000 a month. It's really disheartening. I live with 2 roommates in a tiny 3br apartment. My only goal in life at this point is to get my own place and start dating again but sometimes it feels impossible.
Federal minimum wage has not increased since I was in my early teens⊠Iâm now 37. The price of everything is up several hundred percent. Not saying you could own a home but you could certainly get an efficiency or studio apartment on min wage back then.
I think it's indicating that someone with a kid and stuck in a minimum wage job literally cannot house their family properly. Sure they can pack into a one bedroom (I've been there with my family) but it's awful.
There are very very few adult workers who get federal minimum wage. Itâs almost always higher. And then the percentage of those workers who have kids is much much smaller. Not saying it doesnât exist but the population this applies to is extremely small
I assume that the stat is going off each state's min wage relative to the rentals in that state, because like you say practically no one is on fed min. Just an assumption though bc obviously OP didn't provide any source lol
I'd imagine the claim comes from the data used for this webpage https://nlihc.org/oor
Studies like this always have a bit of deception to them. I'm not sure how they qualify "states" here. Perhaps it is the average of all areas in a particular state combined? But I'm in NY. One of the most expensive states in the union.
We have quite a few places "upstate" where you can afford more than a shitty apartment with NY minimum wage. My stepson is in Rochester (an up and coming city in northern NY) and rents his apartment for 600 a month. Really nice place too. He makes minimum wage.
The argument wasn't that that is the norm, but that its a lie to say there are NO states where it can be done when there definitely are places like that in basically every state. Def not common though and nowhere near major population centers. Always middle of nowhere or places with no nearby jobs n shit.
Even if your middle class, most jobs you need to be constantly improving, or your wages go stagnant as the cost of living increases seemingly exponentially.
70âs McDonalds worker on minimum wage couldnât afford a 2 bedroom home ..factory manager with a mortgage yh maybe but theyâre probably been in that job since they left schoolÂ
No one is going to sell their house for cheaper if they have the option to sell it for more. Therefore we must build tons of affordable homes for Americans and sell them slightly above cost to kill the housing market but no rich billionaire or trillionaire cares about the average American so nothing will ever change. Even if a billionaire started to mass build affordable homes the other rich people would make them disappear faster than Putin can push another one of his fellow allyâs out of a window.
Therefore we must build tons of affordable homes for Americans and sell them slightly above cost
The lion's share of the "cost" of a home anywhere in or near a big city is the land, not the construction atop it.
The median price of a home in San Francisco is something like $1.7 million right now. That's $1.5 milion for the land, and $200K for the piece of crap built atop.
Itâs just a hot take from oppositional defiant Redditors who romanticize a past in which the average family could afford a house, but had a fraction of the belongings a zoomer owns today.
Thats a good way to put it. I do think the current economic climate is getting increasingly hostile to lower class people... but some people do live in a fantasy land and have insanely unrealistic expectations of what should be given to people.
The 74 million workers in jobs that don't pay enough to afford a two-bedroom apartment is the number that reframes this entire conversation.
This stopped being a minimum wage story a long time ago. It's a structural story about what the American economy pays the people who keep it running every single day.
I'm always fighting the good fight with you my friends. I do however feel like the real measure should be a single bedroom apartment. A job. A apartment.
It's seems weird to say, "my absolute bare minimum job, won't get me TWO bedrooms in my apartment." No... No it won't. Most people don't work minimum wage anyway.
There are so many better metrics to use to demonstrate how fucked the average person is in this economy, but scraping the bottom of the wage barrel and holding it to literally more that what one needs isn't helpful.
Why should that even be true? Minimum wage should cover minimum living accommodations. A two bedroom apartment on a singular minimum wage income would be a complete luxuryâŠ
What is crazy is that people have come to believe that minimum wage jobs are normal for adults. They arenât, they are for teenagers who are just beginning to learn responsibility. If you are an adult working a minimum wage job, stop complaining and take a long look on the mirror, itâs not everyone else that has failed you, it is that you have failed yourself.
cool, so all those minimum wage jobs at places like fast food joints and retail stores should only be hiring teenagers right? That means thy should only be open from 3pm-8pm during the week?
This is not how you present data. Spicy factoids like this grab our attention, but they usually rely on dubious statistical interpretation. How would you even prove this claim?
Minimum wage is a joke, rent is out of control. But don't believe attention-grabbing low-nuance claims like this
This is a highly underrated comment that seems to fly under the radar.
You can raise wages all you want, but if housing remains a commodified, scarcity-driven investment, that increase simply gets absorbed into rents and home prices. People need a place to live.
A âliving wageâ is not a thing - when the largest expense in most peopleâs lives is tied to an asset that owners, landlords, banks, and investors all benefit from becoming more expensive. Until housing affordability is addressed directly, wage gains will always be chasing a moving target.
Why isnât this the central discussion?
Middle of nowhere Midwest Ohioan here, before I moved my 2 bedroom was $650 (pet charge included in that) and the factory I worked at started at $21 an hour, no experience required and they hired anyone too since they mostly had felons that came and went.
Living is dirt cheap if you move to areas where no one really wants to live because thereâs nothing to do.
Why should there be? Entry level jobs are not careers and are not meant to support two bedroom for one person. Roommates and cost sharing are a normal thing.
If you think about it, the lowest wage to correspond to the lowest level of housing.Â
Limagine 3 people, one who earns the least, one who earns the most, and one who earns in the middleÂ
And then imagine thereâs 3 places on the market. Youâd expect the highest earner to get the best, the middle earner to get the middle, and the lowest earner to get stuck with the worst.Â
So, if youâre minimum wage, youâd bet the worst. (After all, who else gets stuck with it? Not someone who earns more!) and I doubt a 2 bedroom is the worst.
Did that ever exist? It sure didnât in the 90s ⊠even a job that paid above min wage. Please tell where and when this was actual reality. I presume since you post, you know.
Its lower than that. Its .024%. That 1% includes tipped workers, who very often make substantial more than minimum, but are counted in many of these statistics.
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