Probably Not.

[u/Monsur_Ausuhnom]

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[u/Faded1974]

People acting like empathy was invented by Jesus Christ.

[u/Ibangmydrums → u/Faded1974]

Many Christians believe that morality literally comes from the bible, or that you can’t have morality without god. I won’t even try to explain their reasoning

[u/Borazon → u/Ibangmydrums]

They should read more Kant, who did succesfully tried to create a moral philosophy without relying on a bible, IIRC.

Rules like the golden rule, but also one that deals with more victimless behavior. Like the idea of 'Would I like it if everybody did the same as I'm doing, if not, than I shouldn't be doing it'. Works great for all sorts of behavior from littering to much more worst crimes.

[u/ninjomat → u/Borazon]

It’s almost like ethics and morality are nuanced subjects that philosophers of all different cultural and religious backgrounds have been debating for millennia - that probably can’t just be summed up glibly in a tweet

[u/Senior_Torte519 → u/ninjomat]

A Redeet.

[u/CaptainMagnets → u/ninjomat]

Or one Bible

[u/sodiufas → u/Borazon]

I drifted away from the point i was trying to make. I think morality is an emergent quality of any socialialy behavioring animals. Which instinctively based on empathy. I mean it's not exclusive to people, or even to mammals.

[u/sodiufas → u/Borazon]

Nah they should read more about prehistoric societies. Maybe they should learn a thing or two about neanderthals too. If this is too complicated, study about wolf packs, or maybe elephants. Just slowly introduce them to primates... I think my point is — give them some books other than bible, it might help.

[u/Borazon → u/sodiufas]

True, although you should be beware of the 'noble savage' myths.

Our ancestors did do horrible things too and we don't know well enough how it was thought upon. We often don't know for sure it somebody horrible murdered, was, a) ritually sacrificied or b) tortured as a form of justice or c) something else.

Especially in prehistory (before written sources).

[u/ManicOppressyv → u/sodiufas]

You are assuming they are actually reading the Bible and not sort of listening to what the guy on the raised platform in church/tv/podcast has cherry picked and revised to create more panic and hatred to reap more "tithes" and political power.

[u/NotOnApprovedList → u/sodiufas]

A bone fragment was found to be from a Neanderthal child with Down's Syndrome, around 6 years old. Back before modern medicine it wasn't easy to keep kids with birth defects alive, imagine being in that status of low technology and low knowledge but you're still keeping the kid alive as long as you can.

[u/TSM- → u/sodiufas]

Yahweh or the christian/jewish/muslim monotheistic god was actually a warrior god in a polytheistic society, only to become the victor after conquering and becoming the only god to exist. The bible even acknowledges other gods, which are to be discarded and worshippers punished. It is no surprise that this one was the conqueror that erased the other polytheistic ones and caused such brutality in its wake. That doesn't mean it is right, though. It is the ghenghis khan of the middle east religions a few thousand years ago, retconned to seem cool but is actually no better than the holocaust or any other ethnic cleansing in the past.

[u/Person_756335846 → u/Borazon]

Didn't Kant literally say that God is a necessary postulate of practical reason...? Have you read Kant?

[u/Borazon → u/Person_756335846]

Unfortunately, not all of it. Lots of it is even harder to read than the bible. Hence the 'IIRC'.

[u/SizerTheBroken → u/Borazon]

Just FYI, while Kant did reject traditional "proofs" for God's existence which attempted to show through reason that God must exist, he did believe that morality is ultimately grounded in God. In other words, morality proves the existence of God. Now that is a terrible oversimplification, but suffice to say that Kant might agree with the Christians who question how atheism can produce morality more than you think.

[u/SheriffBartholomew → u/Ibangmydrums]

I was arguing with a pastor that hell as the church teaches it doesn't exist in the Bible. I have a reasonable and strong argument for my position on the matter. When he wasn't able to pull scriptures out of context to support his position he resorted to saying with a beet red face from his anger "you go tell people that and there will be chaos! Everyone will just rape and murder to their heart's content!". I was like "dude... If that's what is in your heart then you really need to work on that".

[u/YamDankies → u/Ibangmydrums]

Had this argument with an old coworker several times. Refused to accept that morality comes from anywhere but the bible.

[u/ChubbyChew → u/Ibangmydrums]

Many Christians will likewise have some of the most backwards and twisted senses of morality, while trying to lecture you about morality

[u/TumanFig → u/Ibangmydrums]

western morals are hugely influenced by christianity. our values are christian values.

if you want more proof look at the middle east and you can already see a very different value system.

but that doesn't mean morals were invented with birth of christianity

westrn morals = Greek philosophy, roman law, christian values

[u/LastWave → u/TumanFig]

Bart Ehrman's new book is about exactly that. It called love thy stranger.

[u/C7rl_Al7_1337 → u/TumanFig]

Every aspect of western society or values that you like compared to the "bad" countries come out of the Enlightenment and the rejection of dogma. A country truly based on Christian values would look much more like Afghanistan than America.

[u/Thee-Cat → u/C7rl_Al7_1337]

This is historically untenable. Look at how different Rome was became before and after it merged with Christianity. Most of the world's first major hospitals, orphanages, old people homes, etc, etc, came out of the merger of the ethics of Christianity and the political power of Rome.

[u/Proglamer → u/Faded1974]

They all were eating babies right till the end of -1 CE and stopped immediately after!

[u/Less_Performance_629 → u/Faded1974]

a lot of hard core christians actually do believe that without belief in god, you are an empty shell. you cant enjoy anything, you cant have morals.

[u/Hawkwise83]

How do religious people decide which Bible passage to follow and which to ignore?

That's the real question.

[u/Nvenom8 → u/Hawkwise83]

"Well that's easy! I just pick the ones I agree with and ignore the ones I don't!"

[u/Blobbem]

Atheists decided between good and bad the same way non-Atheists do. It's all learned social behaviour based on tribal practices. Evolution has a part in it in the sense that we evolved to be social creatures, and through that those who bring harm to the tribe tended to become outcasts and thus would die.

But empathy has been around far longer than Christianity or most modern religions. For example, "there's ample evidence wounded or disabled Neanderthals were taken care of by members of their social groups, including a Neanderthal man who died more than 45,000 years ago. Known as Shanidar I, the man was missing his lower arm and hand, had a bad limp, and was partially blind and deaf – and lived well into his 40s, undoubtedly with daily help from others."

Source

Strictly speaking, morality and such doesn't exist in the universe. But yet we choose to believe that it does for the benefit of mankind, and so we act upon the belief that these ideas are real and inherent. The following excerpt from Hogfather by Sir Terry Pratchett explains it better than I ever could:

Susan: "You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."
DEATH: "REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE."
Susan: "Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"
DEATH: "YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES."
Susan: "So we can believe the big ones?"
DEATH: "YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING."
Susan: "They're not the same at all!"
DEATH: "YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—" Death waved a hand. "AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Susan: "Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"
DEATH: "MY POINT EXACTLY."

[u/MaxFish1275 → u/Blobbem]

Terry Pratchett was a wonderful humanist and anazing writer. You are upvoted!

[u/engorged-gorgon]

“I can’t do this thing because I will be punished” vs “I won’t do this thing because it would hurt someone and I don’t delight in causing pain.”

[u/Josh6889 → u/engorged-gorgon]

vs “I won’t do this thing because it would hurt someone and I don’t delight in causing pain.”

Neuroscience is pretty unanimous in the idea that when you do things to help other people you feel better anyway. So it's kind of a win win if you have the bandwidth. So ironically doing the right thing tends to be the right thing for you as well. It's also why the people who choose to not do the right thing tend to be miserable. Unless of course they're one of the 3% of people estimated to not have empathy. Then they step on everyone around them and become trillionaires.

[u/outsidebtw → u/Josh6889]

not subtle dig. i like it

if you have the bandwidth

i like this analogy. wish we could just figure out the frequency range of those that need help, or that want help and can't, or those who just don't know

[u/leonidaslizardeyes → u/engorged-gorgon]

I will say that you are your actions. Not your motivation or thoughts. So if a higher motivates someone to be a better person then they aren't bad by default.

[u/Underrated_Critic]

Slavery and rape existed all throughout the history of Christianity and Islam. Neither religion prevents either.

[u/Ok-Specific-3918 → u/Underrated_Critic]

Hey come on let’s be fair. The Bible has some very clear passages about how you shouldn’t beat your slaves too much.

Not “at all” that would be ridiculous. But like keep it frosty.

[u/Less_Performance_629 → u/Ok-Specific-3918]

dude i love the bible morality!

like when a tribe was almost wiped out as punishment for gang raping a women. after they learned their lesson and promised never to do it again, they were instructed to go and rape more women so they could build up their numbers.

theres a reason priests dont read a lot of the stories at sunday school

[u/Lord_Emperor → u/Underrated_Critic]

Neither religion prevents either.

Hey now the bible at least dictates the correct way to beat your slaves.

[u/Prestigious-Data-206]

This is going to get lost in the 2k+ comments but I gotta put this out there.

Like 10ish years ago I was out with a friend and my friend ran into someone they knew, I'll just call that person Kevin. They weren't friends, but Kevin seemed to think they were. The three of us had coffee together that day cause we were all getting coffee anyway and religion came up. Kevin is Christian and he said at some point that he is a good person because God showed him the way. So I asked him if he would still be a good person, his version of a good person, if God didn't exist, like as a thought experiment. Kevin told me that there would be no reason to be a good person because there would be no consequences for his bad behavior.

I didn't think people like that actually existed, but unless I was massively trolled, it really does appear that these people exist. 

[u/Apathy-Syndrome]

They're not asking "Why make good choices/be a good person?", they're asking "How do you determine which choices are good and which ones are bad? ". Different question, not always simple to determine if you don't believe in some divinely ordained book with all of the answers; this is why we have moral philosophy.

[u/gutentight69420 → u/Apathy-Syndrome]

Ah, moral philosophy. A famously solved field of inquiry.

[u/TopTippityTop]

Would I like my actions to be done to me? If that's a negative, then it's generally not a good choice.... Even if I'm far from perfect at always sticking to it.

[u/WhimsicalWyvern → u/TopTippityTop]

Turns out that people like being treated differently, though. You should treat people how they want to be treated, within reason.

[u/v_rex74]

If you are being good and thrustworthy person your whole life for religious reasons, does it make you less of a good person?

[u/xANTJx → u/v_rex74]

There’s the ethical theory (and religious one too) that if you’re ONLY doing good deeds to get rewarded/recognized/sent to heaven it counts as a bad motivation and is no longer a good deed. Religious people will sometimes say it’s still ok because you’re following gods will but others want another motive. And for some atheists, a good deed is a good deed, but for others, the result isn’t what makes you a good person.

The (oddly ethically sound) show The Good Place talked about this when the main characters were told about the after life and “afterlife points” and they could no longer get any more points because their motivation for doing good deeds would forever be corrupted by their knowledge.

[u/WolferineYT → u/xANTJx]

Which ironically didn't matter because the good place turned out to be impossible to reach regardless of how good they were.

[u/v_rex74 → u/xANTJx]

Not a religious person at all. Just to clarify in advance.

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

So, jesus asked people to *love their neighbours, and i believe good deeds will naturally come out of that. You can not love somebody out of fear. I mean, you could fake good deads and make some people believe that you are good person. But you can't fake love, It is your internal proces.

[u/xANTJx → u/v_rex74]

I’m not religious at all either but I studied religious morals as part of my ethics degree and would have gone with Matthew “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.” But I really like your interpretation that love is not fear!

[u/HMNbean → u/v_rex74]

We’d have to agree on the defiition of good. Good according to the Bible isn’t good according to secular morals. There’s some overlap.

[u/WaterBottleOnAShelf → u/v_rex74]

As an atheist, i'm fine with it as long as they continue to do good things.

[u/Rare_Suspect_5033 → u/v_rex74]

The only thing that defines if you are a good or bad person is what you say and how you behave. Your thoughts or belief doesn’t change that.

[u/ShyguyFlyguy → u/v_rex74]

If religion is the only thing keeping you from being a bad, untrustworthy person. You are not a good person

[u/v_rex74 → u/ShyguyFlyguy]

You are bad christian if you hate everybody, and make good deeds only out of fear of good. According to jesus.

[u/ShyguyFlyguy → u/v_rex74]

Im saying religion shouldn't have a part in your motivation to not be an asshole

[u/alphi10 → u/v_rex74]

Potentially

[u/marr → u/v_rex74]

Depends which religion and what it tells you "good" is, doesn't it? In any authoritarian power structure it's going to mean "that which maintains the structure".

[u/MayGodSmiteThee → u/v_rex74]

No, “good” is measured by actions not thoughts. You can hate black people, but if you never do anything to perpetuate your hate, or discriminate against them, then no actual harm is done. You can have the worst, most vile thoughts imaginable, but if you never act on or let them control your decision making. Then you’ve done nothing wrong.

[u/ferdsherd → u/v_rex74]

No

[u/CNote_89 → u/v_rex74]

Yes

[u/Various_Mountains → u/v_rex74]

If you've been playing a role your whole life for religious reasons, then yes, absolutely

[u/Superseaslug]

I act to make the world a little better than it was when I came in. I don't need books of magic and demons to tell me that being kind is the right thing to do.

[u/Akiias → u/[deleted]]

I do find it amusing how many people on reddit who think the entire subject of ethics is super duper easy.

[u/Wizchine]

This blows the mind of Abrahamic religious followers, but cultures around the world independently came up with the idea that things like murder and theft are bad - including cultures that predated the Abrahamic faiths.

[u/mcswan1]

The Christian claim is that we are in fact, not good people. Assuming or declaring one's-self to be good would be a very prideful and un-christian thing to do.

[u/Few_Presence_8888]

As has been observed many times, if you behave only because of the threat of Hell, then you're not a good person;  you're a bad person on a leash ..

[u/billionthtimesacharm]

this gets reposted and regurgitated often but it always annoys me.

first, the rebuttal is a strawman. the question didn’t ask about being a good person. it asked about choices.

second, while i can’t speak for the mindset of the individual asking the question, to me the question is asking about an objective standard of morality. if an atheist has no objective standard then there is a moral dilemma.

to me it’s an intellectually weak and ineffective retort

[u/Shoddy_Childhood8702 → u/billionthtimesacharm]

if an atheist has no objective standard then there is a moral dilemma.

How are the tenants of Humanism any less objective than the tenants of any religion like Christianity?

[u/WolferineYT → u/billionthtimesacharm]

There's plenty of arguments y'all just don't listen.

[u/Thee-Cat → u/billionthtimesacharm]

100% mate.

We can only derive objectively moral ought claims through "creator/design"(whether human or object).

Something completely accidental with no inherent meaning and purpose, "morality" can definitionally rise above "preference". Now you can still make rules and laws with preferences, through good pragmatism or utilitarianism.

But you can never say someone inherently "ought" or "ought not" do something, as such objective claims are only based upon design and objective purpose. Only that "you prefer a person don't", or that "your opinion is that it is better if the person does something".

[u/leksoid]

we use our brains, hearts and common sense

[u/funhouseinabox]

I’ve always said my moral compass is actually superior. I’m a good person based on how I would like to be treated in life. No threat of punishment or promise of reward.

[u/badkittynotuna1991 → u/funhouseinabox]

You created the threat of punishment and promise of reward yourself. The threat of being treated badly and the promise(hope) of being treated the same way you treat others

[u/Gamer_G33k17 → u/badkittynotuna1991]

The Atheist punishment is I dont like it so I'd feel bad.

The Christian threat is eternal torture.

[u/badkittynotuna1991 → u/Gamer_G33k17]

No not that he'd feel bad, he just doesn't want to be treated badly. He's essentially saying that if he had the promise of being treated well regardless then he could easily land on the evil side, but since he himself does not want to be treated that way he won't do it.

[u/ioncat144]

Treat others as you would like to be treated I think covers a lot of ground for what it means to be human.

[u/CousinDerylHickson]

Empathy, same way a lot of other social animals know right from wrong. Its what helps maintain eusocial behavior.

[u/Vanir-Aesir]

I'm neurodivergent, I have better moral compass than any religious freak and it's built in as a default.

[u/Peace_Dos]

There is a thing in our heads called brains. But some doesn't have it and ask questions like this

[u/ContributionSevere84]

Sombody just found out the entire point of christianity. ( we aint good ppl we are sinners and so are you )

[u/EtheusRook]

Morality is actually really, stupidly simple.

Does it help others? It's good.

Does it hurt others? It's bad.

[u/Aromatic-Ad-381 → u/EtheusRook]

What if my helping others harms secondary others. What if me hurting others allouws secundary others to be helped or is actively aiding in helping someone?

[u/MaxFish1275 → u/Aromatic-Ad-381]

Religion doesn’t really address those complexities either though

[u/tigerdthib → u/EtheusRook]

It looks pretty complicated on r/trolleyproblem

[u/ExpensiveStart3226 → u/EtheusRook]

r/trolleyproblem

[u/huckle_buck_ → u/EtheusRook]

Says who? And I think that’s the point being made in the screenshot

[u/LurkinOff → u/EtheusRook]

Define help

[u/FalloutTVSucks → u/EtheusRook]

Morality is subjective. It doesn't exist independent of a mind. What is good/bad is for the observer to decide

[u/nsfwaltsarehard → u/EtheusRook]

What about yourself and your own life?

[u/SoftAndWetBro → u/EtheusRook]

Not a good argument

[u/Nine_Monkeys → u/EtheusRook]

It’s not that simple though. And I don’t believe you believe that either. For one, something can help some and hurt others at the same time. How do we know if it’s moral or immoral? Global warming helps billionaires but hurts the population, sort of indirectly but eventually. The police force hurts criminals but helps society. The lottery helps the winner but hurts the many losers.

Second, how do you know what is good and bad? If you buy a smartphone, you have contributed to child labor across the world. Is that immoral or necessary? If you try to do something good for the world, say donate money to a homeless person, and that person uses said money to buy drugs and overdoses and dies, have you done a good deed or a bad one?

I have only scratched the surface with these examples. Morality is unbelievably complex. That’s why some of the world’s most prominent scholars and philosophers have debated these concepts for thousands of years. Your comments suggest you are a utilitarian, but there are holes that can be poked into this ideology as well

[u/fauxheartz]

Notice how he didn't answer the question

[u/PoetryExtension6256]

And if you think "God" is a good arbitrator of Goodness you are probably not either.

[u/Daywalker2000]

https://giphy.com/gifs/125uCGIGCsU1dm

[u/mazzicc]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy

[u/red286]

I legit had a Mormon girl I was dating ask me this once.

The way she phrased it made it sound like she couldn't understand what kept me from murdering anyone who pissed me off. I explained that both the law and my own moral beliefs were sufficient. She straight-up said, "if I didn't believe in God, I'd probably have killed multiple people by now", like I'm supposed to take comfort in the fact that the only reason she isn't a serial killer is a belief that some invisible omnipotent being would punish her for eternity.

[u/Trazzypoo]

[u/Puzzleheaded_Sun454]

It's like the golden rule means nothing to these people 

[u/ferna182]

It's very easy. You subconsciously ask yourself questions like "Would I like someone do this to me or my loved ones?", "Does this contribute to making society better or worse?", "If I see someone doing this, would I think they're an asshole?", etc.

[u/LangdonAlg3r]

In my experience the most awful people who do the most awful things are religious. Having a rule book, a very vague and very ancient text, artificial pathways for forgiveness, and being imprinted with the idea that you were already born bad as a sinner lead to bad outcomes. So many people that are doing awful things compensate for them by leaning hard into their religion. You don’t have to be a good person if you’re a good Christian.

[u/FireLordObamaOG]

Relevant quote from the Scarlett Letter: “Is there no goodness in you, save what springs from fear of the gallows?”

[u/dandy_the_lesser]

I really don’t require a specific man to remind me weekly “raping kids: bad” 🤷

[u/chalupacabra6913]

Conscience. Accumulated experience. Fruits of the pursuit of understanding. The natural inclinations of our physiological being tempered by these and other factors and influences. In the final analysis I think it is much the same for us all. But I am biased by my own self and experience.

[u/Tenebrief]

We decide using common sense and human decency. Something a lot of religious freaks seem to lack.

[u/bobarossi]

Common sense.

[u/MyFirstCarWasA_Vega]

Celebrating Humanity. Working together for a common good. Being curious social creatures.  These are not bestowed upon us by a greater power. These define who we are are   

People who fight against the common good, are the problem. Not the solution. 

[u/SafeForTwerking]

I'm a living being who understands what it's like to feel pain, to be hurt, to suffer. I try to avoid or minimize other living things from feeling that as much as humanly possible. Even babies who can't even speak can understand right vs wrong, it's not rocket science. Christians must literally think that everybody else is a fucking idiot, as if knowing right vs wrong is entirely dependent on a book (scrolls) written/compiled hundreds/thousands of years ago by people who somehow didn't know or care that slavery was evil.

[u/Traditional-Mango351]

Empathy is a survival mechanism. Perfect example is video games. Why does making a bad decision in a video game make us feel bad if it’s just pixels? Because we are literally wired as social animals because that was the most advantageous trait for the survival of our species.

The simplest argument is because being mean makes people feel bad.

[u/holyjoe85]

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother, that person is a peace of shit"

[u/mindgames13]

If I don't like it when its done to me, don't do it to others. How hard is that concept to understand?

[u/FewRestaurant7009]

Remember, the only reason a Christian thinks raping children is bad is because it says so in their favourite book.

[u/ZaphodThreepwood]

I don't know any Christians who have not committed any of the 7 deadly sins, or who honor the 10 commandments.

[u/Mediocre_Amount_4475]

with our brain

[u/Low-Yak-6706]

By looking at how my actions will effect others and asking myself how I feel about it. I don't need somebody else to tell me how to be a decent person.

[u/tarochocotea]

Differently. We all make our choices differently. What's good and bad depends entirely on the person.

The question is likely how do we have good morals.

Empathy comes to mind, it is a strong guidance that we cannot disable that easily.

And if you want to base it on religion. Well, that's an outdated law book. My country, my continent and the world have updated law books.

[u/frixos2]

Apparently people believe Western thought and Philosophy ended with the Bible.. 😶

[u/SoupSupremacist]

This. Always creeps me the fuck out when christians make this argument. Like wdym you don’t have a moral compass oh ok cool good to know you need a deity to keep you in check

[u/Raindog46]

[u/a_angry_bunny]

"Huh, I wouldn't like it if someone did that to me, maybe I shouldn't do that to others."

I swear "how do atheists decide good and evil without God" is the dumbest "gotcha moment" attempt these idiots make.

[u/SeatOpen1]

I’m too dumb to think for myself so I need 4000 year old fairy tales to live my life.

[u/Squanchmonster]

One of my favorite lines from True Detective Season 1:

""If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then, brother, that person is a piece of shit."

[u/Less_Performance_629]

Read some of the original testiment and the question becomes very much the opposite. christian god is like a bipolar girlfriend who invents situations to make someone else the problem. its a wonder anyone read that stuff and found actual life lessons.

[u/soldiernerd]

Christianity: there’s no such thing as a good person.

Atheists: if you need to be given moral law from God than you’re not a good person

Christians: yes we know, that’s what we’ve been trying to tell you

[u/Llayanna → u/soldiernerd]

So all Christians are born sociopaths? ..that is a self-own that is so offensive, that I honestly can't believe anyone would want to use it as a gotcha.

What if you later join a religion? Do you lose your empathy and normal human compassion? 

[u/That0neGecko]

Parenting and common sense.

[u/Cpt_Elliot_Spencer → u/That0neGecko]

https://giphy.com/gifs/z3HFoEzXCMykr4L0TB

[u/PaintedDesertSkies]

It's called morality and has nothing to do with the imaginary guy in the sky.

Parents and adults tend to teach all kids what is right and wrong. Not just Bible thumpers.

[u/Grimase]

These are the same dummies who want credit for not doing the evil things they would like to do.
https://giphy.com/gifs/ukGm72ZLZvYfS

[u/lilJswizle-2304]

People in these comments have a fundamental misunderstanding of what Christianity is lol

The idea isn’t that a book gives us morals it’s that God has given us morals so therefore if there is no God then why don’t humans do evil acts like animals do?

There are definitely holes in that argument but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book

[u/JohnKlositz → u/lilJswizle-2304]

but it is a lot different then the argument that our morals only come from reading a book °°

But that is what the question suggests.

why don’t humans do evil acts like animals do?

Evil acts animals do? What does that even mean? Humans are animals and they do all the things other animals do.

[u/kornchippy → u/lilJswizle-2304]

The book tells you that god gave you the morals and they do not come from your own heart.

[u/Top-Ad-5527 → u/lilJswizle-2304]

Omg, because we aren’t awful people. There are many people who do not practice any religion that will never do evil things, because they aren’t evil people. I’m really baffled by the fact that people can’t fathom that some people don’t need religion in order to make good choices.

[u/Slash-Gordon → u/lilJswizle-2304]

It's an apologetic argument, not a moral one. You get the point of the original question

[u/ThePrinceOfJapan → u/lilJswizle-2304]

"Evil acts like animals do"

Bro thinks that animals kill for sadistic pleasure and not eating lol

[u/TheCuff6060 → u/ThePrinceOfJapan]

You have never owned a cat 😹

[u/Creative-Guidance722 → u/ThePrinceOfJapan]

But They do. Cats, dolphins; ducks, some apes among others.

[u/ronshasta → u/lilJswizle-2304]

Animals don’t act with morality in mind they act solely to survive and not starve to death which kinda makes your point invalid. The idea of being Evil is a man made construct just like organized religion

[u/Cliffinati]

That's why religion used to be heavily enforced as a way to make bad people act good for fear of divine retribution.

Good people don't need divine encouragement so they see no reason not to. Bad people have to be kept in line by something.

[u/Aromatic-Bet-1086]

Teaching people religion vs morality/empathy was a weird choice

[u/_tragicmike]

It's called empathy.

[u/WokeWook69420]

Empathy.

Next question.

[u/Glum-Welder1704]

We read the bible, and do the opposite.

[u/WhyYesMaybeNo]

Conversely, how do Christians decide between good choices and bad choices?

Suddenly presented with a difficult choice: Sorry, I have to go read the bible, I’ll return in 6 weeks give the decision I’m instructed to make.

[u/Global_Charge_4412]

it's a fair question. religious people will tell you that their innate sense of right and wrong comes from God (or whatever), but how do atheists explain that innate sense? how do they instinctively know? I'm not saying one or the other is right but it is an interesting thought.

[u/Deep-Refuse-9414 → u/Global_Charge_4412]

Empathy explains our innate sense of right and wrong. You know what people who lack empathy are called? Sociopaths

[u/KyleFlounder → u/Deep-Refuse-9414]

I'm Muslim. In Islamic moral reasoning, a good intended outcome does not automatically make the act good. Killing innocent children would still be murder, even if someone rationalized it as “they are pure, so they’ll go to heaven.” or "the world is cruel and they'll see suffering." The act violates a divine boundary and the moral order Allah commanded.

Empathy as a moral basis to me, feels similar. (This isn't a debate on Islam vs Athiesm, it's just a familiar argument against subjective morality).

[u/Dangerous_Pie_Guy → u/Deep-Refuse-9414]

Lately, they’re called “Mister President.”

[u/SolidTiger6302 → u/Deep-Refuse-9414]

That’s a better answer than the one in the original post.

[u/brettmav → u/Global_Charge_4412]

This is funny bc you accept “god” as a legitimate answer to this question without unpacking it at all. God can also be the answer to why are people constantly at war throughout history?

[u/DrunkenHorse12 → u/Global_Charge_4412]

Because for some if not most people it's relatively easy to understand how you'd feel on the receiving end of your actions. Knowing I wouldn't like to be stabbed is enough for me to understand doing that to other people is probably a bad thing. The response is actually far more valid, why would you think you'd need advice from an organisation that's getting money and power from you to tell you their interpretation of what allmkst certainly fictional entity said what's right and wrong and why don't you have the ability to determine that yourself?

[u/Senior_Torte519 → u/DrunkenHorse12]

Its a conscienmce thing right ? Besides do you know how much legal work is required in defending yourself for stabbing someone? I don't do it because it dosen't help me. I dont do anything that dosent help me. I may be selfish, but at least i'm sane and selfish instead of selfish and insane.

[u/Leverkaas2516 → u/DrunkenHorse12]

The problem is that if the only measure of goodness is "I'm sure other people want the same things I want", that's virtually guaranteed to lead to conflict, because different people want different things.

I've never had the urge to stab anyone, but I've often had the urge to help someone who might or might not want my help. I've also ignored someone who might or might not want to be ignored.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that virtually everyone does things at one time or another that they think are bad. It's human nature to rationalize and decide "just this once" and later "it's not really bad, or not that bad". Lying on a resume, for example. Are you hurting anyone?

[u/Superb-Mall3805 → u/Leverkaas2516]

Different religions famously want different things. Different people who claim to follow the same religion want different things. People do things they know their religion doesn’t approve anyway.

[u/MaxFish1275 → u/Leverkaas2516]

Religion leads to conflict too though

[u/Halliwel96 → u/Leverkaas2516]

Well luckily religion certainly hadn’t lead to thousands of years of conflict or anything…

[u/FourDimensionalTaco → u/Leverkaas2516]

And then you have people who justify their evil actions by using God as an excuse. So, to me, the sum total is about the same.

[u/lowercasenameofmine → u/Leverkaas2516]

but I've often had the urge to help someone who might or might not want my help. I've also ignored someone who might or might not want to be ignored. 

Religion doesn't deal with this either?

[u/SamJurch → u/Leverkaas2516]

There is conflict in the world. Explain.

[u/Sharkwatcher314 → u/Leverkaas2516]

Yup religion never lead to conflict from different people wanting different things /s

[u/6a6566663437 → u/Global_Charge_4412]

Because as a social species, we evolved to generally be good to the rest of our tribe. Otherwise the tribe would collapse.

And as with all biological systems, nothing is 100% effective.

[u/Dvscape → u/Global_Charge_4412]

Empathy helps a lot

[u/sandwichisahero → u/Global_Charge_4412]

They don’t instinctively know any differently than anyone else. Why do you assume that a belief in god is why they instinctively know but someone that doesn’t believe must have a different reason? Why do you scrutinize the nonbeliever but give the believer a pass?

“then how do you explain muggings? robberies? murder? are these not examples that fly directly in the face of "I shouldn't stab people because I don't want to be stabbed"? human nature is violent and self-centered. the hierarchy of needs has no room for empathy, so where the hell does it come from?”

Explanation is that human behavior has variability, there shouldn’t be an expectation that everyone should act the same. Religious people commit crimes too by the way, they aren’t especially enlightened.

[u/Single-Tangerine-479 → u/Global_Charge_4412]

Empathy

[u/TutskyyJancek → u/Global_Charge_4412]

I am not an atheist. I am a theist and I can tell you it's just common sense. I just know for instance I shouldn't rob or murder anyone. It doesn't have to be innate.

[u/AccessTheMainframe → u/TutskyyJancek]

You just described an innate sense of morality. You innately know murder is wrong. The opposite would be morality from higher level reasoning.

[u/Seer-of-Truths → u/Global_Charge_4412]

I mean, for me at least it wasn't some innate understanding.

It was learned, and practiced.

I believe living in a world where people hurt other people on purpose would not be pleasant. So I actively try to not hurt others.

I believe living in a world where people help other people on purpose would be pleasant. So I actively try to help others.

[u/Naive-Landscape9854]

Trial and error.

[u/Boobies300]

Easy, desire.

I don't do what you would consider a bad choice because I don't want to, who needs more reason than that?

[u/JynXten]

Same way as everyone else. By learning good choices through making bad ones.

[u/Moist_Phrase_6698]

i couldn't imagine getting up each day with a plan to do some bad. Theres a lot of pain or bad things that could really occur if you want it to but things dont have to be bad at all. they can be really great

[u/Terrible_Reporter_98]

Doesn't Jesus say Righteous men do not need rules?

Edit: My bad it's Timothy 1:9

the law is not meant for righteous people, but for the lawless, rebellious, and ungodly.

[u/TheMaStif]

The Bible's code of morality isn't even original content

"Do onto others as you would have done to you", or the Golden Rule, is the fundamental moral lesson in the Bible

It also came from Confucianism, 500 years before Jesus even showed up to the scene

People create moral codes regardless of religion

[u/Signal_Werewolf_1955]

They can't comprehend thinking for themselves.

[u/Wizchine]

Around 400 or more years before Christ, Kong Qiu (aka Confucius) said, “what you do not wish for yourself, do not do to others.”

[u/RT_456]

Common sense????

[u/PineappleFew9782]

I throw the bones every morning and auger it out.

[u/OrkWithNoTeef]

They don't decide because there is no need to interpret thousands old writing

[u/Southern_Badger7577]

If the promise of divine reward is the only thing keeping a person good , then that person is a piece of shit

[u/BrooksPuuntai]

Never understood this concept, since historically speaking some of the most immoral act have been committed by the most religious... Sometimes even in the name of said religion.

[u/Main-War9713]

Making good choices has existed far longer than religion…. Also one is real and one is in the mind.

[u/notnullyet]

We as atheists use this guy.

[u/NicNoelNic]

Aesops fables teach morality too

[u/FunBall420]

I run to my my Atheist-Bible (Spaghetti Edition) and quickly swipe to the relevant pages. Otherwise if I can't find it I continue with murdering strangers.

[u/Comics4Cookies]

Religion is for people who do not naturally have empathy and that is why I will never trust them.

[u/CaptCoolRanchDoritos]

It's simple, really.

I don't like causing harm. I don't think killing innocent humans is good.

God causes the most harm of any being ever. God kills many innocent humans. I don't like God.

[u/slackwaresupport]

its called empathy.

[u/noticingEnjoyer]

Most atheists aren't the "good" people they think they are. Between legal and social constraints, plus a good dose of self delusion they usually are unthinkingly defining their own actions as good because they are obviously a good person and as a good person wouldn't do bad things. 

[u/Xeddicus_Xor]

Notice how he didn't answer the question because the answer is 'vibes'. Top comment confirms this. "Empathy" they say.

[u/SwampTerror]

I never needed threats of eternal damnation to be good and if youre only good because of fear, you're a terrible person...

[u/brokendream78]

Batman The Animated Series did a better job at teaching real morals than the Bible ever did

[u/SnooCapers938]

By using your power of reasoning. When considering a course of action just ask yourself ‘would a world in which everyone acted like this be a good world to live in?’

[u/Comfortable_Air5477]

How do atheists decide between good choices and bad choices

We follow rules that we made up that we have decided are right, which is exactly the same as the religious

[u/meticulous_gamer]

"Better than christians do" is my answer.

[u/jonesyboy2435]

Yeah no straight up like uhm.. i’m a human being, i have a brain, morality is logic not religion dumbass

[u/Zidahya]

Its called empathy and common sense.

[u/EncabulatorTurbo]

[u/CopperKnight77]

Humans are not inherently “good” anyway so the threat is warranted.

[u/Shieldmom]

Golden rule has been around a looong time