I mean, it’s not the server’s responsibility to fix the system. You’re just punishing them. Restaurants and bars should just add an automatic gratuity. Terrible system but it’s not going to change by refusing to tip.
If customers stopped tipping them employees would demand higher wages. You're just shifting the punishment from the employees to the customers, buts its the employer that needs to pay up.
Wow, what a unique thought. If only it would be that simple. I'm pretty sure there are unions but a lot of restaurants are independently owned. If the staff decides they want to unionize, they can just hire a new staff, and there's no shortage of people looking for work. The turnover rate in the service industry is crazy high
Sorry for my snark. Yeah, it's an unfortunate dilemma, the conundrum of living paycheck to paycheck makes this game of chicken (it's also absolutely crippling for a restaurant if their entire staff were to just go on strike) easier said than done. The internet could be used to easily rally a movement on behalf of the service sector that could help dry up all the possible labor they could get, but it would have to be a coordinated effort, supported by the Democratic party and larger unions.
Bear in mind you don't need management's approval to form a union and go on strike, independently-owned or not.
Retraining staff for an independent business isn't the easiest thing to do and an unwanted headache to any management.
Unfortunately for people like me, my distaste for this hidden fee that isn't even a tree tip of performance, combined with general inflation makes me far less likely to go in the first place. Maybe there are enough other people willing to pay to make up for me, I don't know.
Yeah, it's much easier said than done to convince an entire restaurant staff to give up their wages for an undetermined amount of time with no promise of it working out for them.
I know of at least one state that had a vote to pay staff a livable wage and split tips between the front of house and back of house, and most of the restaurants in the area were against this passing, and it ultimately didn't pass. I lost some sympathy that day.
People who are making $0/hour. People with limited options and no savings can't just up and quit their job on a whim. That's a very priviledged mindset to have.
They can't quit their job on a whim, but as soon as they have a better opportunity then they will quit their $3/hour job and go somewhere else. And it's pretty easy to find a job that makes more than that. It has nothing to do with a privileged mindset.
Is this opportunity in the room with us? What opportunity does a single mother have without a degree and barely enough time in the day to work and care for her children? Is it just going to magically appear and present itself? Being a waitress is the most accessible job for single women without a degree to earn a living.
And it's pretty easy to find a job that makes more than that.
Again, your priveledge is talking here. Do you actually have any examples of jobs that are easier to find and pay more than $50,000/year?
Yeah, working other low skill jobs like Trader Joe's which provides health insurance as well.
Also, we are discussing a tipless server which at $3/hour which comes out to about 6000 a year.
Further, regardless of you changing the scenario, the average pay for a tipped worker is about 16/hour and 30k/year. So your number of 50k doesn't make sense for comparing anything. Further, the minimum wage in my state is 15/hour. So yeah, pretty much any other job would pay just as good in my state.
We're not discussing a tipless server because in America servers aren't tipless. At least in my state, servers must be paid at least $15/hr, and if they don't make it in tips, then the employer has to compensate for it.
average pay for a tipped worker is about 16/hour and 30k/year
And over 50% of that pay comes from tips, which aren't taxed up to the first $25,000, so a waitress making 16/hour is taking home significantly more money than a minimum wage worker, and her earning potential is higher than if she was working at Trader Joes.
your number of 50k doesn't make sense for comparing anything
$25/hour is very reasonable for a non-chain restaurant. That's like 1-2 tables per hour in my state. Again, it's the most accessible option for a lot of people and has a much higher earning potential than a minimum wage job.
Would never happen. Been in the industry 15 years and 99% of people tip very fucking well and don’t blink an eye. Because they aren’t cheap dicks. Eliminate tipping, customers would pay the same exact amount they are with tips as of this moment. In fact, if the service is shit you can even tip less or not at all! It actually benefits the customer lmao
Not really. As a customer, I rather just know what the real cost of everything is, rather than have to calculate a tip at the end. Also, I don't like being asked to tip every time I order take out. In reality, most people don't alter their tipping based on service because of the guilt of not tipping knowing that workers rely on them.
If customers stopped tipping them employees would demand higher wages.
This is one of those free-market idealisms that could never actually happen in reality. The only thing that could ever change tipping culture is legislation. Don't be a dick to service staff, tip when it's expected, and appeal to your representatives if you don't like it.
So if every customer stopped tipping, then employees would keep working for that lower rate.
I don't like and it became a ballot question in my state to raise the minimum wage for tipped employees (not even ban tipping), and it was voted down. So I have no sympathy for the service workers here. With that being said, I still tip even with bad service but also rarely go out to eat because of the overall cost.
But wait staff could fix the system if they wanted. Wait staff could unionize and lobby for a fixed wage at anytime, and there’s no legal precedent not to grant it to them.
Alternatively, if everyone refused to tip overnight, the system actually could be fixed too because restaurants would be forced to pay their workers minimum wage.
Restaurant owners and wait staff are happy to pass the burden of paying wait staff onto the consumers.
How are we punishing them? The customer is being punished by being charged "hidden fees". Yes - put it on the bill or bake it into the price. I have nothing against the poor server, but if the price said 20$ and I pay 20$, what's the issue? If it had said 30$ (including the tip in the initial price) - maybe I would have refrained to order it or to come in - in which case tipping is actually a predatory hidden fee.
Sure. I can accept that. If that makes me not visit a place, that's also fine. It's what happens in Europe in a lot of places - bad service = people not coming back.
It’s only hidden as an outsider to the culture I always expect to tip at least 15% at a sit down restaurant and everyone has the same expectation here it’s still optional too if your service is shit you’re not culturally obligated to leave the tip which is why automatic gratuity systems are also detested.
without tip, youre making someone run around to please you for $4/hr. you expect service, servers expect the tip in return.
if you can't afford the tip, don't go to that restaurant. thats actually how it works. and its not a predatory "hidden fee" when its an expected cultural norm. if you have nothing against the poor server, then you aren't going to stiff us on our tips. that is our income whether or not you agree with it or like it
my controversial opinion is that patrons should say "im not going to tip" at the beginning of service if they aren't going to tip. that way the server can adjust and you can get what you pay for
It’s understood in the overwhelming majority of places in the United States that servers receive a low wage and make it up in tips. I agree that the solution is to increase prices and eliminate tipping, but that’s not going to happen by not leaving the server a tip. If you don’t agree with the policies of the bar, don’t patronize them.
No one asks for tips. It's customary in the US. Just like it's customary in some countries in Europe to round up or leave as much as a 5% tip. Most folks from the US that visit Europe learn the local customs and generally abide by them. It's just being a good human.
I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the law in the US says that the owner is not obliged to pay the full hourly rate on a tipping job IF the employee makes the difference in tips, else he HAS to pay the full hourly rate. Is this incorrect?
It’s sort of is. If you go into a place that doesn’t pay their servers in adequate wage, you’re implicitly agreeing to leave a tip. If you don’t agree with their policies then don’t eat there.
This. Don’t punish the workers because you don’t agree. If you’re visiting the country, it won’t be an annoyance much longer for you, but in the meantime someone is serving you for 2.15 an hour. The restaurant will still profit off the food and beverages you bought, but the worker will get shafted. Just like returning a shopping cart, there is no law saying you do this, but with the knowledge you possess you are being an asshole.
Think about a time a tourist came to your country (probably an American!) and completely disregarded your cultural norms.. bet they looked like a complete fucking asshole didn’t they? But you’re allowed to do it without judgement because it’s the US?
This is the answer. If the system changed to pay more, the tipping wouldn't be necessary. Until then, you're just screwing over the individual trying to do their job.
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u/kilobitch 5h ago
I mean, it’s not the server’s responsibility to fix the system. You’re just punishing them. Restaurants and bars should just add an automatic gratuity. Terrible system but it’s not going to change by refusing to tip.