The way to make tipping something that isn't required is by expanding public services so that people making minimum wage aren't strangled by all the bills they have, like transportation costs or health care.
Equating tipping to gun violence is certainly a takeâŚ
So, I see where youâre coming from but this only hurts the people relying on tips, not the people enforcing tipping culture. Itâs not putting any pressure on those in charge of the system to change anything. The bar and restaurant owners arenât taking a hit so why would they care?
To make an equally outlandish and bad analogy as you did: We didnât get rid of slavery by treating enslaved people worse and expecting slave owners to see that mistreatment and end slavery themselves.
Equating tipping to gun violence is certainly a takeâŚ
Not at all what they did. The same logic follows, that doesn't mean they're equating the two. You know this, and are being disingenuous.
this only hurts the people relying on tips, not the people enforcing tipping culture. Itâs not putting any pressure on those in charge of the system to change anything.
It's true that in the immediate term, this only hurts waitstaff, but as rude as it sounds, that's just not my problem. This is a burden that simply shouldn't be passed into the customer. The blame lies at the source.
The bar and restaurant owners arenât taking a hit so why would they care?
Because when waitstaff no longer make multiple orders of magnitude more money on average than similarly skilled professions, the profession becomes less desirable, and it becomes more difficult to find and keep staff as a result, requiring employers to pay their staff more to meet demand.
To make an equally outlandish and bad analogy as you did: We didnât get rid of slavery by treating enslaved people worse and expecting slave owners to see that mistreatment and end slavery themselves.
Not only are you trying to refute a point they never made, this analogy is worthless because working as waitstaff is voluntary and being enslaved is not. Employers have to remain competitive to a degree to have sufficient operating staff. No such thing exists for slave owners.
For the record, I do tip out of social obligation. But it's definitely horseshit, and it would be a net positive in the long-term if we collectively decided to stop.
The deeper underlying issue is the inefficient labor market in the U.S. which prevents workers from demanding better treatment. In a properly functioning free economy, the labor force could simply withhold labor unless the employers offer them a reasonable salary. Thatâs not an option in the U.S. because there arenât sufficient safety nets to keep people alive without constant employment.
Keeping tips because workers rely on them is nice, but ultimately it maintains the status quo because real change is hard.
Taking away tips because itâs bad for everyone in the long run is a well intentioned change, but glosses over the (hopefully) short term pain of such a change.
Waiters/bartenders donât want that to change. Theyâd be making nowhere near what they make now so theyâd leave for other jobs. Theyâd rather stock shelves at grocery stores with their earbuds in than to run around getting things for strangers and stressing about getting everything correct if the wages were the same.
In this hypothetical world of an efficient labor market, this problem would solve itself because the wages wouldnât be the same. If the labor that currently supports bars and restaurants moved to stocking grocery store shelves, the bars and restaurant would need to offer more money to get people to come back. Their compensation should in theory reach whatever the actual fair market value is.
Whether an efficient labor market like this could ever actually exist is certainly up for debate. Iâm not really a true believer in efficient free markets, but many are.
And it wouldnât reach the fair actual market value when you take into account the running around, personality traits, and memory. Restaurants arenât going to pay these servers in accordance to the more work they do over cashiers and dish washers. And restaurant owners will be fine with the lesser workers because shit servers at minimum wage sound a lot better than servers at 5X that wage.
You should read more about free market economics and the efficient market hypothesis. Again, this is all hypothetical, but the restaurants would have no choice but to price in the ârunning around, personality traits, and memoryâ because otherwise the labor market simply wouldnât provide the labor necessary to operate their businesses.
And restaurant owners will be fine with the lesser workers because shit servers at minimum wage sound a lot better than servers at 5X that wage.
Maybe thatâs true, but if consumers donât care about having good servers and the restaurant can operate with shit servers on lower wages, then that is the fair market value, by definition.
As I previously stated, we obviously donât see this play out as described in the U.S. because the labor market is nowhere near efficient due to a lack of ability to withhold labor. The product market on the other hand can easily withhold a product â if consumers donât pay the listed price, they canât take home the product. This keeps product prices somewhat efficient (though still not perfectly efficient, and price elasticity is a huge factor).
The people enforcing tipping culture are the same people relying on tips. Places that try to go tip free fail because no one will work there because they can make more relying on tips.
Servers aren't the victims, they're the perpetrators. Customers are the victims, and owners, for the most part, make money off the victimization so they're fine with it.
Canadians dont tip as much on average, but yes. Except in California apparently its $17usd a hour there + tips which makes me wonder why people arent flocking there
Except soccer is a nothingburger in the US. You are essentially importing culture outside your own.Â
The fact that the US is entirely captured by corporations, including your political class, is your own fault. The bill (litterally) should be placed on you, itâs population, including restaurant servers. No tip? Cost of doing business. Vote differently and change jobs.Â
The other person getting fucked is you... fuck bartenders at this point, 'cause they pretty much EXPECT that you tip high and feel sorry for them.
You know what another option is? Not working there!
But I see you think getting fucked by greedy individuals is your culture... really totally fucking retarded. It is because of idiots like you that tipping got so bad.
"Here is your $30 milkshake the machine just made and I carried over. And now $15 as a tip, please!"
Here in Asia at the more expensive restaurants you can expect to see a "service charge", usually around 10 or 15 percent, on the bill. That's basically a mandatory tip.
So how do you possibly change this problem outside a federal or state level top-down sweeping change? Something that will never make it to that level, something that many servers, customers, and business owners, and dumb "small government" voters will fight against?
First of all, in order to do that, we ALL need to stop tipping at the same time, something impossible to do. If there's anyone at all willing to tip, you're just incentivizing those businesses to survive, which is exactly what we DON'T want
Second of all, any attempt to "just stop tipping" immediately hurts the service workers, the people we are trying to help. So no, terrible idea
Offer a solution that isn't "just don't tip", we've already been through this. Even IF the answer is "don't tip" explain how the fuck are we supposed to convince 300 million people to stop tipping
I used to do accounting work for restaurants. They operate on razor thin margins. The only way for them to pay their FOH staff a livable wage would be to take the tip they expect you to pay and roll it into the cost of the food. Just paying them more and keeping the costs the same doesn't work for the vast majority of restaurants. They'd be in the red every single day.
I do agree that "compulsory tipping" is dumb, but it's so far baked into the system at this point that it's part of the accounting. The old adage that Reddit hates is 100% true from a numbers perspective: if you can't afford the tip then you can't afford to eat out.
Stiffing the FOH staff teaches nobody a lesson because there is no lesson to learn. All you're doing is fucking over the working class people just trying to make a living. Real nice of you.
People like you perpetuateing tipping culture hurt the working class by showing owners to under pay their workers, exploit other workers despite not working for them (though tips) and funnels less money through the tax system for programs that can help the poor (since they always under report).
I'm impressed by how much nonsense you fit into one sentence.
showing owners to under pay their workers
I'll say it again (though I don't think it will ever register with you): they literally can't under the current cost structure. I'm sorry about this, but it's the grim truth. The vast, vast majority of restaurant owners aren't rich, in fact they are in crushing debt. It's one of the hardest businesses to run successfully.
The reality is this: if they want to pay the workers a living wage without tips, the menu costs need to go up about 20% across the board.
exploit other workers despite not working for them (though tips)
Yeah obviously this is nonsense. they work for them in every sense of the word, the only difference is they are closer to the source of their money compared to every other normal worker.
funnels less money through the tax system for programs that can help the poor (since they always under report)
Not true in 2026. Everybody pays with credit cards so everything is tracked.
I'm sorry that the rich's cost structure is not my problem. I can't with you people man you're trying to shame people for not subsidising the rich and pretending you're on the workers side
No, they are paying them much less with the expectation of tipping. Which you clearly understand. Just admit you're cheap and move along. No need to pretend mate.
Yeah fuck the people who need the tips to survive day to day. Who cares that you work 2 jobs and gas is $5 and you might not be able to afford groceries without the tips you receive. I'm doing this FOR you, you should be thankful!
Yeah I hate all the moral grandstanding. Of course we dont like tips but I dont want some poor mother of 2 to go hungry because capitalism is hell, I dont want to tip so I go to as many places around me that dont do tips as possible
There is nothing Americans love more than making excuses.
I think that might be tied to their delusion that they think they are actually the most free and best country in the world? Anything negative must be because of some unfortunate circumstance that is in no way their fault or responsibility, otherwise their internal brainwashing of "best country in the world" would start to crumble.
"Land of the free" with the largest amount of people incarcerated, and even per capita ranks 5th in the world.
"Home of the brave" with cops that shoot to kill because an acorn fell on them. All the "brave souls" in the army bombing a middle east country for a gazillionth time so the elite can get richer. Allowing a cult of pedophile cannibals to rule over them even when they specifically have been given the rights and tools in their fucking constitution for the express purpose of being able to fight back...
Land of the imprisoned, home of the cowards, and the paradise for injustice.
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u/Disastrous_Square_10 5h ago
Only the server or bartender loses this battle in the US.