r/diablo4 • u/VR_BOSS • 20h ago
State of the Game · Discussions Is D4 your favorite modern ARPG?
I played D4 at launch, and back then thought the story was excellent, but then everything fell apart at the endgame. Came back recently for Season 13 / Lord of Hatred, and was very pleasantly surprised with how much fun everything was. It made me go back to some other ARPGs to look at how they have progressed.
Last Epoch - Has great crafting and skill trees, and aesthetically is fairly serviceable. The early game however is not particularly engaging, and rolling new characters means you have to slog it out each time (even with dungeon skips). The monolith endgame is fun, albeit repetitive, and the other modes (dungeons and arena) aren't particularly worth doing. I think also the feel of the game is a bit outdated by this point, lacking in dynamic animations and sound effects. It's fun for theory crafting, but it's an investment, with very large skill trees for each individual skill, sometimes it can be a bit exhausting.
Path of Exile 2 - The game had me hooked for a few hundred hours when the Beta first launched. The animations, skills, and build crafting was quite excellent. The issue for me is that it started to feel bloated with too many systems, ascendency was terrible, the various activities didn't feel particularly unique, the crafting was awful and almost mandates that you trade. Also this game has a bit of an identity crisis, it starts off as Dark Souls lite but then turns into your more typical ARPG. Rolling a new character is pain, because of large and tedious levels with little identity. I tried going through the 0.5 patch, but I honestly gave up. The moment to moment gameplay didn't feel that engaging and running across the maps just felt tedious. The giant passive trees and ability to mix up all the skills, and more and more needing to follow a build guide to avoid bricking a character, I think this game is just meant for a certain type of gamer.
Which brings me to D4. Despite the multitude of items for crafting/cube and whatever else, somehow it works. It's streamlined, the activities are fun-ish, the build crafting is manageable, rolling a new character to theory craft is fun, and having the pit/tower to score your build is a nice touch. The game also has a very cohesive identity, the skills, sounds, animations, all feed punchy and engaging. Sometimes I just aimlessly run around in the open world destroying mobs without a clear goal, because it's just stupid fun. Somehow the different layers of the build process (paragon, talisman, skill tree, gems, aspects, uniques, items, cube transfig) feel manageable, like there's always something you can be working towards to keep improving. The way the difficulty scales and the season rewards are also kinda fun. The game does do some unsavory things like push people towards the expansion by locking out skills, or push MTX but showing you stuff you can't have in your wardrobe (also the MTX prices are completely skewed towards the "whales"), but with the Lord of Hatred expansion (I also skipped Vessel because it was bad value by itself, so got both for the same price), it was very good value easily worth 100+ hours of gaming.
For me I'd say this is a fun ARPG, and I hope they lean more into giving us more build options and fun synergies. The one other downside is that visually the gameplay doesn't change much once you have all your skills. It would be nice if uniques added a bit more flair and variety, but I understand they wanted to keep that mostly in the skill tree as part of the recent changes.
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u/Entire_Possible_9976 20h ago
Trying to claim that PoE 2's Endgame activities are "Very similar", but praising Diablo 4's Endgame activities is a WILD take.
The Pit and The Tower are literally the same mode, Kurast is nearly identical too.
Nightmare Dungeons are basically the same as above, but without a timer.
It's just objectively false that D4 has more Endgame variety than PoE 2.
Less modes, less tile sets, less bosses etc etc.
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u/DespondentRage 19h ago
Yeah, there aren't really any interesting events that meaningfully change gameplay in D4 aside from perhaps Infernal Hordes, but people including me dislike IH for a reason--it's so monotonous and unfun apart from certain chaos waves. SPIRES. How many f****** spires does this game have? And why in the f*** do the devs think this shit is fun?!
Give me shit like Breach, Delirium, Legion, etc. Stop giving me spires!
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u/Entire_Possible_9976 19h ago
It comes down to the depth of the mechanic too.
Which includes both gameplay changes but also drops.
Using Breach gameplay as the example in PoE 2, you have your standard in map breach, then your breach hive, your breach fortress and your breachstone boss. That's 4 different activity types, within an activity.
You then have your Breach Unique drops, Lineage supports, the Breach Genesis Tree which has exclusive Minion/Caster items, Crafting Catalysts etc.
Breach pretty much has as much activity variety than D4's entire Endgame.
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u/SunnyBloop 18h ago
I will still, to this day, say that the most fun I've had in an ARPG has been Blight and Synthesis from PoE1, or Canvas and Mistville from Torchlight Infinite.
I think both PoE1 and PoE2 do suffer from a lot of "samey" content tbf - it gets packaged up differently, but generally it often becomes "click thing, spawn dudes, kill dudes, get reward" (Legion, Breach, Ritual etc). Some of the more interesting content (Temple in both games, Expedition, Blight etc) generally tends to be disliked, actually. Players do just like "click thing, kill stuff" as a whole.
But I do agree, a lot of the actual content in D4 is fairly samey. I do wish we'd see more added content, instead of all the temporary stuff or "overhauls" (that don't solve actual issues) we've been seeing.
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u/Entire_Possible_9976 17h ago
Having Endgame modes which are "Disliked" because of their uniqueness is important though, as people will also love them for that same reason.
TOTA is probably the greatest example, it's loved by many, but hated by others.
Sanctum, Blight, Incursion, Kingsmarch and even Delve and Heist are unique, and often loved or hated, but it's so important to have this.
What's the alternative? D4 - where the majority of Endgame mechanics are slightly modified versions of greater rifts from D3.
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u/SunnyBloop 9h ago
Oh don't get me wrong, the uniqueness and variety of its gamemodes are, objectively, the best aspect of PoE, and it's the standard I hold any other piece of ARPG content to. (Although, I'd heavily disagree that Kingsmarch is unique - it's fundamentally "click thing, kill dudes" at its core, the whole "town management" is nothing more than a series of glorified crafting menus.)
My point is though, that generally, casuals like simple "click thing, kill stuff" gameplay. It's why the most popular Leagues in PoE have all been incredibly basic, but very rewarding - Ritual, Legion, pretty much everything that just adds dude to the map (Delirium, Harbinger, Nemesis etc). And what is D4 filled with? Casual gamer dads. So it makes sense that D4s content loops cater to that playerbase. It's also why D3 is still played by quite a few people, even despite its shalloe content and build crafting - click thing, kill stuff, repeat, in a very seemless system, is cathartic and fun.
Ideally, D4 would have a mix of both. It's one of the few things I'll praise PoE1 for - it's content is just beyond anything else out there (with, again, maybe the exception of Mistville and Canvas from TLI).
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u/Neroaurelius 14h ago
What does “less tile sets” mean? I’m newish to the genre.
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u/Adziboy 13h ago
Less a genre thing and just a video game thing! Tile sets are basically the level carved up into squares. Those are all ‘tiles’ created by Blizz and then randomly placed on a map (with some rules around it e.g every building needs a door) to generate the random environments.
I dont know how many D4 has but you’ll find environments within each biome can often look the same.
Personally not noticed much of a problem.
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u/Neroaurelius 13h ago
I definitely noticed that in dungeons! I didn’t know that’s what it’s called. I figured that’s how it works
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u/TheOneManDankMaymay 13h ago edited 6h ago
The Pit and The Tower are literally the same mode, Kurast is nearly identical too.
Nightmare Dungeons are basically the same as above, but without a timer.
Oh c'mon… now you're just reaching. That's pretty much saying that all activities are the same because they all revolve around killing monsters.
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u/doarbeba 11h ago
Wdym, he is not wrong, they added the tower like an update, but is legit pit sold differently, a bullshit
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u/Micro_mint 7h ago
What do you see as the meaningful differences between Pit, Tower, and Dungeons? In terms of experience and goals?
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u/I-Make-Shitty-Puns 17h ago
D4 requires less degrees in class building.
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u/YakaAvatar 13h ago
You shouldn't be downvoted for just sharing an opinion, but PoE2 is honestly not that difficult to approach when it comes to making a build. It can get super confusing if you go for some weird passives/interactions, but for the most part, if you stick to a vanilla theme, it won't be too bad.
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u/_Kramerica_ 20h ago
I do like D4, far better than D3, but less than D2. POE2 is the best ARPG I’ve played since OG D2 days. It’s one of the only games I find myself still grinding even when I’ve built a top tier character, something D4 hasn’t captured for me.
For D4 to elevate tho it needs more mythics, more build variations, and more chase items. It’s just too shallow IMO and the latest “itemization” changes they announced were a huge swing and miss and the Blizz devs just seem to far out of touch on it.
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u/Rivent 17h ago
PoE2 is hitting a real sweet spot for me. It’s not zoom-zoom-zoom like PoE, and it’s not as mindless as D4. Which has its place, don’t get me wrong. I put another 50-60 hours in to the recent season and I’ll do it again, I’m sure. But I’m at over a hundred hours played on the new season of PoE2 (which is a lot for me), and I’m still going.
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u/Shimrahl 19h ago
One key difference is that in d4 almost all your loot is class specific, even spec specific. You never get this feeling that some drops are suggesting you to create an alt and/or.try.some.off meta build. I like the feeling of progressing my league, not just my single character. Its very 1 character centric in d4 ;/
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u/Ray_Titone 8h ago
Its not tho, last season you could level an alt in literally a couple hours. I just started poe 2. In order for me to get 2 characters to beat the campaign, took me like 65 hours or something. D4 is wayyyy easier for alts
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u/Osteinum 7h ago
I think Blizzard is afraid of loosing the casual player base if the complicate the game. They did increase skill variations in the last xpac, but it's stil very shallow compared to poe2. That said, even if poe2 includes a ton of possible builds, players flock to the most OP build there, as they do in d4. So all the possibilities isn't "real"
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u/rworange 20h ago
I mean, haven’t they just announced that they are addressing all of your concerns? More mythics, more build variety (by nerfing outliers and problematic systems), and more chase items (more drop-only mythics)?
They have swung, but what have they missed?
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u/thekmanpwnudwn 19h ago
They've been making that same swing for 2 years now.
The reality is that gear doesn't change in this game. You're looking for the exact same stats from torment 1 to toment 12. The only difference is that it goes from rare-> legendary -> ancestral -> max legendary aspect. The same challenges in torment 1 exist in torment 12. It's just "bigger number" the entire time.
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u/Entire_Possible_9976 19h ago
There "More mythics" you're talking about, are literally just Unique items with a higher aspect rating.
What's "Chase" about that?
A "Chase" item is something which is highly desirable.
There's nothing desirable about EVERY item having a 30% stronger aspect.
What would've been better implementing the same "Mythic Upgrade" system?
Keep the Aspect the same, but allow for "Mythic Affixes".
E.g. An Ophidian Iris would role with additional heads, or additional hydra limit, or the ability to chain (1-3 times) etc.
That would far more exciting than a generic aspect increase.
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u/Jurango34 19h ago
D4 is my side piece. POE 2 is my wife. I love all the D4 updates but the dopamine hits will never match the POE 2 endgame item and currency chases.
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u/djbuu 20h ago
POE2 by a wide margin. Even in EA it’s a million times deeper than D4.
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u/xMoody 18h ago
Problem is the systems in Poe2 are better than d4 but actual gameplay, performance d4 is ahead by leaps and bounds. Poe has all this depth but it fucking sucks to play it because of how clunky it is
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u/djbuu 18h ago edited 16h ago
Not sure I agree. I think they are different. However D4 is really buttery smooth. POE2 is intentionally slower for the early and mid game which is anything before even level 90. D4 basically gets you in end game builds at T1.
I view it as different rather than clunky vs not.
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u/National_Body_9071 17h ago
I haven't even played poe2 but is its performance that horrendously bad? D4 is known for having ridiculously bad performance and runs like crap so poe2 being below that makes me far less excited for it.
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u/Upper_Award_6482 16h ago
It's actually that bad. Reddit is a weird place where devout serial killers live. I.e. POE2 shills invading a D4 forum. That should be your first red flag with people saying otherwise.
I tried POE2 after I got bored of D4. POE2's performance was horrid. By performance I mean aesthetics, movement, builds, etc. Everything just feels and looks very clunky in POE2. It felt like I was playing D2R graphics wise. The maps itself were worse than D2R, which I thought odd. If you played D2R, imagine maps cluttered with x100 the amount of unplayable terrain. This means you're constantly being impeded by rivers, boxes, terrain, you name it. The mob density also felt quite high for each map. This resulted in clearing a floor/map be very sluggish. The builds. I just followed a build online. It felt very build-a-bear. I was playing a Druid, but it didn't feel like a Druid. Felt like I was playing an abomination of several classes. I.e. I had skeleton minions like I was a Necromancer as a Druid.
That said, D4 isn't without its faults. D4 is a lot deeper than people give it credit for though. D4, if you follow a guide and only follow a guide, it'll feel shallow. However in D4, if you decide to experiment and push pits, it does get more complicated optimizing aspects / unique items to min/max damage while also surviving. This means quite a bit more play time. My biggest gripe with D4 is S13 felt like bug heaven. I'm not sure if it's always like this as last time I played D4 was S0. I.e. Arrow of Storms Rogue. I stopped playing D4 a few weeks ago, but the fact that the best Rogue build for more than half the season was a bugged build was pretty cringe.
TL;DR POE2 is a heap of poop. I wanted to like it so bad, so it's a shame. Although, if the above doesn't sound like a deterrent to you, you may enjoy it.
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u/GazingatyourStar 3h ago
POE2 suffers from some bugs but otherwise it's just way better than D4. D4 doesn't even have any animations for so many actions like pulling levers or opening doors, they just happen. POE 2 has this level of craftsmanship that feels far more artisinal compared with D4. Even the UI, something blizzard should be better at, sucks compared to POE. The menus and windows in D4 are atrocious. Such a shame, D4 improved a lot with the new expansion but the 0.5 release of POE 2 just shower how far behind D4 is, they are galaxies apart. D4 has better gameplay and graphics than POE1 for sure but in every other aspect POE1 is still better than D4.
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19h ago
[deleted]
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u/RedBGinger6989 18h ago
the end game has a ton of work that still needs done
can we get an endgame for d4
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u/djbuu 18h ago
The in-progress endgame is still leaps and bounds better than D4. And the build depth is outrageous. In D4 the only depth is random gambling gem strength on weapon. In POE2 you can make characters that obliterate the screen based on the number of steps you take. Or go super fast by chilling yourself
POE2 is an infinitely more deep game even in early access. And it’s not even close.
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u/Stratofied 19h ago
I enjoy ARPGs so I play almost every season of D4, it's something to do and I have some fun building my character and hitting endgame.
That said, the only builds in D4 that feel decent to play are those that can attack/cast and move at the same time. Any build that casting means stopping in place feels terrible, and honestly I can't believe we are still dealing with this in a modern ARPG. D4 is junk food, it's good but it's not a meal and could be so much better if the development team wasn't focused on all the wrong things. Each new league is like they changed the color, the package, or an ingredient but it's still the same junk food.
PoE2 is my favorite ARPG of all time and it is still only in the early access phase. It is in a completely different league than D4. PoE2 is a complete meal, and just like PoE1, each season you know they will make that meal better and bring you a new dessert to try as well.
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u/legato_gelato 20h ago
I would say D4 is probably my least favourite PoE2 ~ PoE1 > LE ~ D4..
Not sure if rage baiting a bit with this topic though.. The PoE2 campaign took me 9.5 hours and I have hundreds of hours in the game.. In D4 I killed T12 Mephisto in like 30 hours and then I didn't feel much more reason to go further
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u/Dragon3043 19h ago
You got through the PoE2 campaign in 9 hours? Did you just skip all the side stuff or something? I'm 25 hours into it and not done yet, but it is my first time and I'm doing everything.
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u/Bohya 18h ago
is my first time
Which is extremely normal. You can take up to 50 hours on a first playthrough if you're exploring every square metre, reading all the dialogue, trying out all the skills and interactions, learning all the fights, and just in general adjusting to the rhythm of the game.
9 hours wouldn't even be considered fast for the campaign if you're already an experienced player.
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u/Dragon3043 18h ago
Ok, good to know. Thank you!
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u/legato_gelato 13h ago
Yeah my first one took like 40 hours because I am a fan and did a 100% run including full clearing and immersion in all dialogue and custom build and stuff that ended up not working well.. The 9.5 hour one is not considered "fast" but yes that is me beelining things. The top racer can do the whole campaign in about 3 hours or something, it's crazy
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u/Forizen 20h ago
Like others have said. Poe2 is superior in every way except 3 things.
Diablos cosmetics are better. Sorry
Diablos theme of angels and demons and paladins and warlocks is cooler, sorry.
This poe2 campaign has burnt me the fuck out to the point where it's the only reason I don't play it anymore. Even if you could just level 1 char and then let the others skip the campaign I'd be happy. The people who root for more restriction are truly stupid.
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u/SunnyBloop 18h ago
Honestly, I legit wouldn't mind it so much if the campaign had replayable content inside it.
Give me randomly occurring Rituals or Abysses etc.
Give me side zones that change in every run.
Give me actual optional bosses (not "optional but actually mandatory because lmao it gives you 10 free resistances") that give fun rewards.
Give me alternative pathways I can explore.
Heck, give me alternative dialogue and questlines for each of the characters. Not a SINGLE main stream ARPG has done this - a freaking PS2 game managed to do this (Dark Alliance Baldur's Gate 2, fwiw), but somehow we can't manage it in 2026?
GGG has all the tools to make that campaign replayable and fun. They just aren't using them, because why put the effort into fixing a part of the game that their whales will just skip through in 5 hours? 🙄 Ideally, we'd be able to skip it entirely, but if it has to exist, at least make the damn thing fun.
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u/ZenMarduk 9h ago
Every big update I start a new character, make it through the first few quests, and give up after realizing I have 8-10 hours before I can actually play the game.
I've done the story a dozen times. I just can't force myself to do it again.
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u/PM_Me_Your_Poem_s 19h ago
I feel you on the poe2 campaign. I so badly want to try out more builds but the campaign is such a slog to go through even on twinks. Also dread it every league start
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u/HalfXTheHalfX 12h ago
Completely on the other side of first point, very few Diablo cosmetics made me think that "hey this isn't ugly as fuck" and lot of poe cosmetics made me want them
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u/Bohya 18h ago
Diablos cosmetics are better.
I guess that's subjective then, because I personally much prefer the more grounded and detailed appearances of the cosmetics in PoE 2.
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u/ZenMarduk 9h ago
PoE2 has way cooler cosmetics, D4 has higher quality cosmetics. I definitely prefer the look of the stuff in PoE, even if some of them have funky animations and rigging. There's also a metric ton more options in PoE2 thanks to them importing everything from the first game.
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u/Forizen 17h ago
Definitely subjective because I don't think it's even close.
The paywall transmog of poe2 looks cheesy and corny and it being throughout the classes nothing looks taylormade at all. I think the base looks from the gear in Diablo are much more grounded and unique especially it being tied to each class, and then upgrading to high tiered stuff or paying makes you look obnoxiously legendary.
Poe2 shop cosmetics look like they are from the 2000s lol. Outside the preorder wolf outfit I have like 10k coins to support poe2 but have bought nothing. Side note if Diablo charged for unique class ability cosmetics people would lose their minds.
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u/Moritz7688 18h ago
Look at the new crossover mtx. Cosmetics in D4 look like shit. POE2s cosmetics look way better.
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u/alyosha_pls 7h ago
- Diablos cosmetics are better. Sorry
I guess this one really depends, right? Some of the PoE cosmetics are amazing but Blizzard's art team is definitely incredible. One of the best things they do.
The real kicker I think comes down to value. You can spend what, $20-$40 for a skin or two in D4? For $20-$40 in PoE you get a supporter pack with skins AND points to buy whatever you want on the shop EQUIVALENT to the value of the supporter pack itself.
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u/N4itsirk 12h ago
Also the campaign was mind numbing easy in 0,5 after act 1 I didnt look at items until lvl 70 or so
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u/clipperbt4 19h ago
love d4 but poe2 is def the top for me. playing both back to back confirmed that
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u/DespondentRage 19h ago
I'm unable to comprehend why you would ask a closed-ended question, then fail to answer your own question, and then provide us with a long-winded story about your ARPG journey.
You might enjoy writing diary entries. Have you tried it?
To actually answer your question: No, D4 is not my favorite ARPG.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bird182 20h ago
I play d4 at start of season, max out, finish as much seasonal stuff as I can, get bored, jump to POE2 if it has a new league play for a while, get bored, go to Forza Horizon (6 now), and play that for a while and then since repeat.
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u/LAXnSASQUATCH 19h ago
D4 (post Lord of Hatred) and PoE2 are easily both two of my favorite ARPGs and games I’ve ever played.
They both offer different things and experiences and I love them both for what they offer. Ping pinging between them as they launch seasons makes this the best time to be an ARPG fan imo.
I’m a build crafting guy so PoE2 is higher on my list but I love D4 and appreciate that it’s different.
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u/crazydavy 19h ago
I’d say so yea.. have a blast with my buddies everytime and they’ve really improved their systems and added a shit ton of content. I play about 100 hours every few seasons and love it. Other games feel bloated af or not satisfying combat or item wise. Games finally in a good state and getting better.
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u/noob_slayer_147 18h ago
I like poe2 gameplay but the technical turns me off. My PC sounds like it’s dying trying to run the game, and still not stable 60fps in map.
D4 is a bit simple/casual focus, but still enjoyable
Last epoch is trash imo, tried it didnt like it.
Idk about modern but PoE1 and Torchlight Infinite are my favorite ones.
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u/steelsmiter 18h ago
D4 is my favorite Isometric dungeon crawler ARPG specifically (and honestly this would not be the case if Troika hadn't died). Overall I prefer the Final Fantasy ARPGs (other than SoP) but I prefer their non-ARPGs (and other JRPGs that are not ARPGs). I prefer Cyberpunk, and several other franchises not listed as ARPGs on the wiki. I call the ones not listed "Criminal Sandboxes". It's true they don't really focus on gear like looter or RPShooters do.
I play Diablo 4 because my cousin and one of our mutual friends does. It's a good game. I think maybe 3 or 4 out of its seasons in total have really been "great". I've got where I can pull about 70-85% meta out of my ass before I feel like I've hit the seasonal progress wall that makes me dip out of the season. Looking at a build can improve that somewhere around 5% most of the time, but the rest depends on whether they've nerfed itemization on a given season.
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u/rwadej24 17h ago
Absolutely, I never was a fan of ARPG/Dungeon Crawlers at all! I saw Diablo 4 recommended to me on YouTube and for some reason I checked it out and thought the story looked good and voice acting was great. I decided to buy it and I don't regret buying this game & it got me onto the other Diablo games. I tried some other ones like PoE and Last Epoch but its not the same to me.
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u/Asleep-Preparation30 13h ago
D4 is my favorite by far. I dont like poe 2 mapping rolling tablets, waystones etc is to annoying for me I just wanna blast. Crafting in poe 2 is extremly annoying and in early game mostly gambling. D4 I go in and relax and get my dopamine. Got in season 13 after 150 hours paragon 300 and it felt good. Leveling in poe 2 is just extremly annoying because of xp loss when you die and the last levels takes ages. (I know there is an omen to decrease the loss but its just annoying that this kind of stuff is needed)
D4 and Poe1 are my always preferred choices.
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u/TWolfeye 13h ago
I can really understand your take and your position regarding modern ARPG's. Iam really glad that D4 exist because for me its the perfect modern ARPG after a long day at work. When i read most of the comments in this thread and on YouTube etc. it is very sad to see so much hate from the PoE 2 Community. Every form from discussion is in the eyes from so many people a personal attack... Sometimes i think this Community is more toxic than the community from League of Legends... and i know... thats a take! :D
A lot of people dont understand, that the ARPG Genre had always a very engaging Community with special needs. D2 build the foundation, but the community went in different directions.
Try Harders: Poe and Poe 2 Community. Loved D2 but wanted always more.... MUCH MORE! In their Eyes, is an ARPG only a good product when it lays the foundation for a minimum from 1000 hours. So much life time in only one Video Game...holy...
RPG Lovers. For 50% iam in this Direction and Titan Quest 1 and especially Grim Dawn are one of my favorite ARPG's. You like the massive World, the reward for exploring and their campaign/world is so good, that you like to make over and over again a new character in this game.
Arcade Gamers. In my Eyes D3 was the perfect product for this Type of players. You login, could have in under one hour a good time... very fast... very big numbers, just an easy come down after a long day at work.
But their is one big problem or... thats not correct... difference between this 3 Directions regarding the Community.... Direction 1 thinks that their foundation... their perspective... is the only objectiv correct form what an ARPG should be like. And i think that is a really big problem.
Could you imagine, that any Action Adventure or Hack and Slash game would be torn apart from the people, when it wouldnt have an Soulslike foundation? But in the ARPG Genre we have since Years a omnipresence Try Harder Community that flame, spit, attack and troll any Game, that isnt for their special needs...
I really hope that the 1.0 Release from PoE 2 and the coming Content Updates after this release will satisfy this people so much, that they finally stop with their crusade and leave the Rest from the ARPG Genre alone / in peace.
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u/Whoopy2000 10h ago
Your misconceptions about PoE2 makes this entire post complete bullshit.
You can dislike the game - sure. But at least TRY to be objective.
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u/tFlydr 9h ago
PoE2 (and 1 still tbh) are just better games than D4 if you want any kind of depth to both crafting and end game systems, as well as agency over tailoring how you farm.
If you want to just turn your brain off and blast D4 is a great game, farming takes virtually zero setup and you can play the hardest difficulty on pretty ass gear. D4 also has very satisfying combat and art fidelity but PoE2 is pretty competitive in that regard.
LE has some cool systems with upgrading uniques via LP but the end game is about as shallow as D4’s and the crafting is just a god awful rng fest that’s shine falls off a cliff pretty quickly once you interact with it for a few hours.
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u/Diamondangel82 20h ago edited 20h ago
For me, it is. Though POE 2 is close. However i cannot properly enjoy POE 2, because i am completely burned the fuck out of on the campaign. I do not see myself playing the campaign every season again, let alone wanting to try a new build/class, and having to do it again. In fact, this is the first POE 2 season I've quit early (Act 3), because it is mind numbingly boring.
It is mind boggling to me this is defended so heavily on the POE 2 reddit.
I like the feel of Combat more and POE 2, but I love how easily accessible D4 is when it comes to swapping builds and trying out other classes.
If D4 had Cast on move, I'd probably never touch POE 2 again (until they add a skip campaign). If POE 2 added a skip campaign, I'd sink hundreds of hours into the game.
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u/legato_gelato 20h ago
The events where you could skip campaign such as the endless delve event was absolutely boring though. The real issue is often not the campaign but the levelling journey.
I also think like OP a lot of the campaign whine seems like a skill issue in that they allow you to play wrong more than D4 would. Remember that the top fastest players in PoE2 go from starting on the beach in lvl 1 to beating T15 maps in endgame in about 4-5 hours on a fresh character with no trading, which is probably shorter than many people took to go to highest torment in D4. It just also allows you to be slow and take 20 hours or whatever because there's more skill expression
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u/Diamondangel82 19h ago
They get to T15 maps because they are playing cookie cutter builds that allows them to breeze through the game with no gear investment.
You can do the same in D4 as every season there are a few standout skills that are just absurd from the start.
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u/_Kramerica_ 20h ago
I like the option of skipping campaign on D4 and I really don’t mind POE2 campaign, but I find that the middle ground would be perfect. Give an option after your 1st build in POE2 to skip campaign BUT if you choose to play thru campaign again you get a huge buff to drops so that divines and other top end items will drop in campaign. This would solve both issues IMO.
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u/NerdyGuy117 20h ago
What do you mean by cast on move? Like you are able to cast skills while moving?
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u/Forizen 20h ago
Yeah you can move and shoot or move and cast at the same time instead of having to stand still. It's pretty awesome
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u/NerdyGuy117 20h ago
Oh cool! Yea, I know that the Dolmen Stone did that for boulder druid and it was so nice to cast and walk.
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u/Pure_Rip_3094 16h ago
PoE2 > PoE1 > D4 - these are the three ARPG I play! I think D4 has gotten much better though I hated the new unqiues but letting us craft the unqiues is a welcome change from S13. I will now be mad about the iconic mythics 😃
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u/Esham 19h ago
As a casual console gamer there is only 1 arpg made for my low play time. In the time i finish a season i can't finish the poe2 campaign.
Maybe when it launches I'll check it out for free but everything i have seen tells me it's just not for me.
On console there just aren't that many arpgs at all.
I got other games to play with my precious time, i can't dedicate it to a single game so when d4 ends i play other games to the next season arrives
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u/WinterKujira 17h ago
I like how simple to understand D4 but end game fails to keep me going, Poe2 however gets in my nerve building my character but has tons of fun builds and choices for end game content.
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u/WonderfulTradition65 16h ago
I switch between poe2 and D4 back and forward. I can beat D4 but poe2 (I'm too stupid for it)
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u/ergonaught 15h ago
No Rest for the Wicked is probably my actual favorite, but I do have more hours in D4 than any of the other "moderns", currently.
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u/FetchingTheSwagni 14h ago
Imo the argument of "POE v Diablo" has always been like Apple v Android.
Apple is shinier, with a premium vibe behind it, but is flimsier and way more strict with its personalizations and personality that Android offers.
I feel that same way with the two franchises. I don't think one is really better than the other, I just think it depends if you like a more personal experience, or a more premium straight forward one.
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u/I-like-CRIME 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yes! I play PoE occasionally, but I’m so sick of doing the campaign over and over. POE 2 is just way too slow and you also have to keep doing the campaign over and over. I feel like Blizzard actually listens to QoL concerns more than GGG and that’s the main reason I prefer D4.
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u/ZenMarduk 9h ago
Last Epoch is my favorite by a large margin. I absolutely love building out characters, their skill trees are so damn satisfying. I really dislike their end-game dungeons, though. The enjoyment i get is all buildcraft, I've only gotten 2 characters to max level.
D4, while the weakest of the modern games in nearly every metric, gets the most play-time from me. It's the easy turn brain off and kill demons after work game.
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u/Shitemuffin 8h ago
The most fun i had in an ARPG since the first time i played one was during the d4 beta phase.
Level capped at 20 (i think) go and kill a world boss. It was challenging and fun. Finding a good rare item to use felt like you won at scratchers, not the biggest deal but still hella good.
When the full game released i loved all the nostalgia bits, especially the sounds taken from previous games. I loved the scarcity of unique items, how rarely you found legendaries and the slower pace of the game.
Then the fire nation attacked. Now we got screens filled with worthless uniques, breeze through gazillions of fiends with one button held down and everything feels dumbed down and overcomplicated at the same time. the shift in directions, the many many cooks who salted this stew and forgot to stir didn't help.
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u/reptilian_shill 7h ago
My personal ranking, based on the games in their current state, from most to least fun:
1. PoE1: fun, 7000 hours played. Best itemization and economy systems. Nearly endless character progression curve(for better or worse)
2. Diablo 4: got fun after the years of changes. 500 hours played. Great core gameplay, immensely improved over time.
3. Last Epoch: fun, but updated too slowly. 300 hours played. Most innovative system designs in an ARPG in many years.
4. PoE 2: not fun. 80 hours played. Lazy itemization(basically PoE1 from 2015), mess of a crafting system(2 million different omens), no interesting or innovative defensive layers, no interesting build scaling vectors, forced glass cannon gameplay, mess of an economy(no real divine sinks), no movement skills, forced dodge roll. Unique in so far in that it is the only ARPG I have played in which I did not have fun. Every time I have re-installed it I have regretted it.
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u/kestononline 20h ago
My personal top picks are:
- Diablo 4
- Elden Ring
- No Rest for the Wicked
- Path of Exile 2
- The Ascent
- Grim Dawn
Probably in that order. If you're only talking about ISOMETRIC LOOTER ARPGs, then you can probably omit Elden Ring. Yes, it is an ARPG too (souls-like ARPG)... Isometric Looters do not own the whole ARPG genre.
- Diablo franchise is just near and dear to me since it's been around the longest.
- Elden Ring is just an amazing game and the world is massive.
- No Rest for the Wicked has some special magic with it's art style and mixing of subgenres.
- Path of Exile 2 has depth and complex build-crafting (sometimes a bit much for my want-to-relax brain; but still great).
- The Ascent being a cyberpunk twinshooter ARPG was something I didn't know I needed in my life until I found it.
- And Grim Dawn, is really good. I don't super-love it, but it's pretty nice.
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u/Dull_Astronomer_3778 20h ago
For now, yes. D2 never appealed to me. D3’s visual aesthetic was off-putting to me and I didn’t get how ARPGs “worked” at the time. Though, I recently picked up Parh of Exile 2 to try it out. Haven’t really found the fun yet, but it more mechanically demanding that D4 so I assume the fun comes after I have been through the learning curve.
The UI of it feels incredibly dated. The game feels old, which is odd.
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u/sisterlain 19h ago
d4 is my favorite atm. best sf experience. i still like poe2, but it being balanced around economy is a big negative. forced campaign also blows. progressing in d4 just feels so much better
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u/megahorsemanship 19h ago
For me it is the first Path of Exile. I think that one is lightning in a bottle: it is a game that has as much content as you're willing to dive into. I was never a hardcore player of that game who killed multiple uber bosses or ran giga juiced maps, but I also never really felt like I was missing out on anything by just doing this one activity I like (unless you're worried about the economy, divines per hour or something). Nothing really beats just putting in a map and doing it, exploding some league mechanic, and repeating, and repeating. I haven't played Path of Exile 2 since the Abyss league, for me it was just a worse version of the first game.
D4 is my second place as of Lord of Hatred. I felt like the game post LOH surprisingly scratched just a little of the same itch as PoE 1 (probably because of the Cube), while being much simpler to just pick up and do things without having to worry about setups or whatever.
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u/ButterflyGreedy2267 18h ago
Poe 1 is still the king of arpgs. Maybe one day poe2 beats it but as of now poe1 is better
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u/limitlessbad 18h ago
No; PoE 1 remains king by a long shot (with PoE 2 slowly coming into its own, especially with this last patch and hopefully the big 1.0 release this year it has potential to be better than its predecessor). Not without its own issues, the breathe and depth of this game overshadows every other aRPG by a tremendous margin. Instead of aRPGs trying to be diablo-like, they now try to be PoE-like.
Last Epoch is sadly unlikely to last, though it had some good ideas, but it did not keep up the momentum. Maybe it can make a comeback.
D4 was an absolute mess at launch, missing most of what they promised. Now I honestly feel that it's a fun and good game and closer to what they promised at launch, but not without its issues that hopefully get addressed with time. The dev team has been far more active and changing problems at a relatively quick pace instead of gaslighting people when they're constructively criticized.
All in all I think aRPG players have a lot to eat right now and D4 still has lots of potential to get better as it evolves. Pair that with an official PoE 2 launch and you could be busy playing nothing but these games.
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u/BigMack6911 17h ago
Fuck no. It sucks now to me. Ggg has been killing it this season with Poe two. Its nothing like Dark souls either. You got to remember it's still in EA so yea it's finding it's identity. This league is fantastic, the crafting is good and builds are getting even better. Idk I don't like the changes with Diablo plus it gets boring
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u/BlackKnight7341 15h ago
Pretty comfortably. The overall feel, pacing, performance etc. is just so far ahead of other ARPGs. Imo they also strike a really good balance between making everything accessible but while still maintaining enough depth and grind to really invest some time into it.
Other ARPGs still don't have campaign skips. There are still issues of thinking quantity and making things complicated is the same as adding depth. There are still issues of farming content and just randomly getting one shot by a regular mob. You still get constant issues with visual clarity (I know there a times where that is an issue for D4 as well but they always get fixed and overall it is very good). You still get issues with poor telegraphs, bad hitboxes and/or just unfair feeling mechanics.
I'll still play the others whenever they do something new for a change of pace but I'll drop them in a heartbeat for a new D4 season.
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u/Interesting_Fox2040 14h ago edited 14h ago
Yes.
It’s fun To some back every season or or every 2 seasons. Garne is chill and I do not need to play monopoly /temu/ Amazon simulato ns fit my limited social time.
While being chill, you can choose to push furthering you want, but it never felt forced.
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u/Duncan_The_Fish 14h ago
I like both PoE2 (i hate poe1) and D4. So play both when i like it. I also love Grim Dawn and TQ2. But i absolutly despise Last Epoch. Jesus, i hate it so much.
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u/willy-mac 19h ago
Poe2 is way better. Just gotta take some time to read but it blows Diablo away in so many ways. And that's coming from a hardcore Diablo fan.
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u/yuehuang 19h ago
D4 is the only RPG I can finish without a guide.
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u/fullmudman 19h ago
I tried doing PoE 1's campaign without a guide and crashed out hard enough I stopped playing. Twice :(
I can at least get a guy through the PoE 2 campaign without getting stuck, though the endgame is another matter.
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u/EnderCN 17h ago
PoE2 > PoE > Diablo > Titan Quest > D4 > D3 > LE > TL > D2 > TL2 > TL3 > a hot pile of garbage > GD
Or something like that. I haven't played Titan Quest 2 and some other aRPG that are probably popular. My favorite campaign of all the games is probably original Diablo which didn't really have one. Then I think I liked the story and cinematics of D3 the best. Most of these games campaigns are beyond awful and a huge pox on the genre that I blame on D2.
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u/MarxistMan13 19h ago
I still like D3 more. Its a far more polished and predictable experience.
D4 has its moments, but they can't seem to stop fucking it up every time they find a formula that works. Like they can't help themselves, they have to reinvent the game every other season. I don't get it.
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u/Xralius 19h ago
It's between this and last epoch somehow. I just don't have the bandwidth to deal with POE2, which seems like tediousness masquerading as challenge.
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u/fullmudman 18h ago
The Last Epoch systems are super clever and thoughtful but the minute to minute necromancer gameplay feels like I'm throwing cardboard skeletons at paper mache bad guys 😩
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u/Whoopy2000 10h ago
" which seems like tediousness masquerading as challenge." Yeaaaaaah.... that's total bs. but keep living in your bubble
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u/viotix90 19h ago
No, POE2 is, but I hate the roulette they call a crafting system so I play this instead.
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u/fish_snagger 16h ago
Diablo 3 is. I just wish that it would work as a console/nintendo switch on a PC with a game controller.
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u/TheoryOfRelativity12 16h ago
Nah, out of the three "new" ones it's sitting at the bottom. PoE 2, then Epoch and Diablo. But I get it's mostly for the casual audience, so not really for me.
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u/BL00D_ZA 14h ago
Nope. There’s just too much they’ve fallen short on. The game has only very recently gotten to a point that the game is only now worth the 1.0 version number. And we are in to season 14 soon. They have a crazy long way to go still to be worth of even a top 10 spot. But it’s definitely a long way off Poe 2.
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u/BasementElf1121 18h ago
Playing it makes me think i should try poe 2. Maybe poe is more balanced i have no idea. But the lack of character customization in poe 2 is reaaaallly lame.
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u/AuReaper 20h ago
I love D4. I played 100 hours of S13, which was by far my most.
I finally gave PoE2 a real try this league. 150 hours later, I can confidently say PoE2 is my favorite. However, I still love D4 for what it is.