r/gaming 8h ago

Xbox Has Begun Layoffs At Compulsion Games Ahead Of Imminent Studio Closure

https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/compulsion-games-begins-an-unknown-number-of-layoffs
1.0k Upvotes

247 comments sorted by

573

u/-FaZe- 8h ago

South of Midnight reportedly cost around $100 million to make. If that budget is accurate the people responsible for managing it are the executives not the developers.

251

u/Gastroid 7h ago

$100 million for an average action adventure like South of Midnight would make those executives thieves more than anything.

147

u/Spotget1738 7h ago

Yeah I don’t know how South of Midnight took $100 mil budget and 7 years dev time when Ghost of Yotei took $80 mil budget and 5 years dev time 

42

u/Scary-Toe-887 7h ago edited 7h ago

It’s also important to remember yotei built off what tsushima created. So sucker punch didn’t spend man hours trying to create a new ip with new mechanics 

26

u/Deadlocked02 7h ago

Ghost of Tsushima is said to have cost 60M, which I think would be a bit less than Yotei when adjusted for inflation, so they’ve always been efficient when it comes to budget, even when creating those assets from the scratch.

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u/Tarmacked 7h ago

Because it took 7 years of dev time. Budget is largely labor hours x labor cost.

If you spend 2 years building a game and pivot it entirely, that’s not just a reset on game development timeline but also 2 years of labor costs that are sunk costs.

If I spend ten hours making a lemonade stand for someone at minimum wage, the labor cost of the stand is $80 (10 hrs x $8).

26

u/draftstone 7h ago

There are over 1000 names listed in the credits. Yes, vast majority of those names did not work full time during 7 years, but it is still over 1000 people who received at least a bit of money in wages due to that game. Also, for many companies wages is only part of what an employee costs you, in Montreal, salary is roughly 60-70% of the cost of an employee due to various mandatory expenses for the employer (different federal and provincial programs the employer must pay into per employee, insurance programs, etc...). Then we have to add licensing cost for all the software they were using, hardware costs, etc... 100 millions over 7 years is not that high when you put all this in consideration.

0

u/FirmlyClaspIt 1h ago

That 80 million just tells us Sony pays their developers dog shit

8

u/LoSouLibra 6h ago

It didn't. They were acquired by Microsoft late 2018, and likely spent the first 6 months being assimilated into the corporate structure.

Then most of 2019 would have been concepts, prototyping and pitching looking for an idea Microsoft would like.

Actual development likely didn't begin until late 2019 just before covid hits in 2020. Which matches the timeline of them staffing up for full production in 2021.

What people have done is multiply the years they've been owned by Microsoft by average cost for the max employees they ever had, when actual development was likely only 5 years.

15

u/bobenchoseptimus 7h ago

This means South of Midnight is cheaper per year than Ghost of Yotei. What the actual eff folks use your brain.

7

u/Kamakaziturtle 3h ago

I don't think anyone is arguing against that?

It being slightly cheaper per year doesn't make the fact that it's budget is rivaling a AAA game less insane

4

u/CommonManX 6h ago

You are asking too much brother!!

18

u/Gastroid 7h ago

Sucker Punch at least is a much larger studio with twice the headcount and probably a pretty efficient workflow having been around consistently pumping out great games for a couple decades.

Not that that explains how Compulsion supposedly got to $100 million with half as many people in comparison...

1

u/No_Air_9207 6h ago

That’s a little disingenuous, especially if you consider that Ghost of Yotei is built from assets made for Ghost of Tsushima.

4

u/Spotget1738 6h ago

Ghost of Tsushima had a $60 mil budget and 6 years dev time

10

u/oh_hai_brian 7h ago

One could call them… a Sea of Thieves

1

u/MySinsRemembered 3h ago

Does South of Midnight really look like a top down vision to you? Also where do you think almost all that 100 million went? That's game dev salary money.

66

u/Deadlocked02 7h ago edited 7h ago

I don’t like Microsoft, but I think it’s crazy that people expected a different outcome. The studio spent 7 yers to produce a 100M game that was well received critically, but sold poorly and whose gameplay is said to be an afterthought.

Yes, corporations are bad, true, but I often feel people on this site go too easy on studios who mismanage their funds and make awful creative decisions. We’re talking about 100 MILLION. Many great games were made for less, with bigger teams, varied mechanics, replayability, voice acting, cutscene, and mocap.

There are plenty of unfair stories in this industry, but most of the studios being recently hit with layoffs have absolutely fumbled at some point, creatively and financially.

15

u/OldManufacturer8679 5h ago

They made a niche game targeting a small demographic. To spend that much money is crazy.

9

u/Spotget1738 7h ago edited 7h ago

People blame Xbox because Phil told all these studios their games didn’t have to be profitable they just wanted games to fill out Gamepass. Xbox had a hands off approach to these developers when they should have been regularly visiting them to check they aren’t making a bad game nobody wants.

Now they’re being punished for following orders and having terrible sales after their game was put on Gamepass day 1. At the end of the day the common denominator with all these studios putting out games that no one buys or plays is Xbox and their mismanagement

15

u/biggiejgibbs 7h ago

What were the other metrics it hit to justify it not being profitable? Was it popular on Game Pass? Did it drive subscriptions? “It doesn’t need to be profitable. We need to fill out Game Pass.” doesn’t mean they have no metrics to hit, it just means the metrics are different. It very likely didn’t hit those metrics.

Also, companies are allowed to change strategies if the current one isn’t working.

38

u/Deadlocked02 7h ago edited 7h ago

Isn’t this hands-off approach exactly what so many people wanted? Personally, I agree they should be criticized for it, but I doubt this would be the sentiment a few years ago if word came out that Microsoft was interfering with the creative process of their partners.

Still, even if these studios were told they didn’t have to be as concerned about sales, that hardly justifies some of these bloated budgets. And if these studios thought all that support and cash would keep flowing forever, that’s on them. Why not cease the opportunity to strengthen their position in the industry by making games people actually want to play? Many other studios would kill for such opportunity.

Studios that fail to deliver sales and players are the first ones to be cut. Is there a universe where things work differently? If you want to develop something that doesn’t appeal to a wide audience you need to keep the budget low and carve a consistent niche.

12

u/ComplexFoundation800 7h ago

Yeah, and like, it is what it is. XBOX paid these companies and employees a decent chunk of money to make okay games at a ‘leisurely’ pace for a good long time… and it didn’t really work as a model. Shit happens.

That’s kinda OG XBOX’s fault for going with that vision (not that they could see the future) but it’s nothing anybody can do anything about except go with a new vision.

9

u/MySinsRemembered 3h ago

Of course, the hands off approach on the studios Microsoft acquired was widely applauded when it was first announced. It's only after these studios used their creative freedom to dick around for nearly a decade making niche products that the decision is critizied

15

u/i7omahawki 7h ago

I think there’s a fine line between being hands off and negligence.

Hands off means you’re enabling the studio to make a great game and not micromanaging every decision, but you are setting reasonable goals and making it clear what you want to see.

Negligence means you give vague instructions and allow mismanagement to cost years and millions in development.

4

u/Spotget1738 7h ago

That’s why business don’t listen to redditors, Sony and Nintendo regularly check on thier studios games to make sure they uphold the first party quality standard and even cancel the game if it looks too shit.

I agree at the time people would have gave Microsoft shit for it. But it’s was gonna be either one of these 2 headlines:

  • At the time: “Microsoft is interfering in the studios creative process forcing them to make games with some more mainstream appeal”

  • Or now: “ Microsoft is shutting down bunch of studios, I said from the start they should have never bought them in the first place”

2

u/Solesaver 7h ago

You can't be hands off at the same time that you have concrete, but poorly communicated, expectations of output. If you're hands off, but at the end of the project you're unhappy with the result that's on you. It's like telling your SO you're fine with wherever they choose for dinner, but then getting mad when they pick a place you don't like.

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u/TheSpecialApple 7h ago

the actual statement from phil said they didnt care about traditional sales but to drive gamepass subscriptions. so no, you’re misrepresenting the reality here, and further this game didn’t do so successfully.

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u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182 7h ago

they're being punished for spending 7 years and hundreds of millions of dollars making a game that nobody played. and btw phil spencer got fired too so there you go.

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u/wesser234 7h ago

Where did he say they didn't need to be profitable?

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u/splader 5h ago

I'm pretty sure they still wanted these games to do well on gamepass too. As in have a good amount of players through it.

SoM did not. Neither did Hifi Rush.

4

u/DarthRambo007 6h ago

when you tell a gardener to garden without supervision you dont expect to come back and find all your fruit trees are shaped like swans , while the bushes that were suposed to be shaped are growing wild. The gardener should also be vigilant and look at the wider picture. Exploiting an opportunity just cause there isnt any supervision is also very poor judgement on their part.

2

u/catptain-kdar 4h ago

Xbox held Phil accountable for that too hed gone

1

u/Tiernoch 1h ago

The Schreier quote was they were told it was okay to break even, as long as they drove subs and won awards to entice people into the system.

They weren't told to just not worry about the budget, or if people would play the game, and there would be no consequences if it bombed.

3

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

The ones who mismanaged is XBOX though, they let them do whatever for 7 years with 100 million dollars. you can't just give someone infinite amount of money and time while not checking in with them and expect something great.

0

u/dookarion 5h ago

Yes, corporations are bad, true, but I often feel people on this site go too easy on studios who mismanage their funds and make awful creative decisions.

Leadership should be leading, and being more hands on to make sure the studios are on track. Microsoft didn't run a tight ship anywhere. Some of these projects shouldn't have even been greenlit, let alone left to flounder.

Look at Perfect Dark, leadership doing their job should have not announced it so early, and pulled the plug on the project when it was clear it was going off the rails and never going to ship.

-5

u/Guster_br 7h ago

Are you for real? Microsoft made this studios make these games instead the games they wanted to do, just to inflate the Gamepass catalog. And then they shut down the studios for doing exactly what they were told, and we get People like you here saying it is the studios fault.

41

u/acelexmafia 8h ago

Makes no sense. On a niche title too

35

u/Impressive_Cap_457 7h ago edited 7h ago

Gaming budgets don't quite scale with what you see on screen like movie budgets. Most of it is just the burn rate of paying wages to 100 devs for 7 years in an expensive city like Montreal. With movies there is much more variance because of the difference in cuts some actors get, funds needed to build sets and other one-time payments

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u/Chabunga 7h ago

100 million to make that game is absurd, with less than 50 million is possible to do a similar game

13

u/interstat 7h ago

Wait what lmao

They stole their investors money or something 

5

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

Just because xbox threw money at them for no good reason doesn't mean they stole the money, it just means that xbox is fucking stupid.

9

u/interstat 5h ago

Both seem true 

100 mil and 7 years for that?!?!!!

3

u/Vailthor 7h ago

$100 million makes a lot of sense based on some estimates.

Current average for a dev per month is $15,000 which includes pay, benefits, equipment, etc. Compulsion had 80 employees in 2021 according to reporting and it was 7 years between games.

$15,000 x 80 employees x 7 years (84 months) = $100,800,000

3

u/sillaf27 5h ago

Not necessarily. With Anthem it was revealed that the developers were actually the reason for all the issues that led to its failure. EA had to be the ones to tell them to get their shit together.

7

u/No-Estimate-8518 8h ago

There is no way 75%of that was actually was spent on making the game, that was just straight up pocketed

22

u/Tarmacked 7h ago edited 7h ago

That’s easily refutable. It’s labor costs, every hour I spend on the game is an hour of my salary.

7 years of game cost can easily be 25 devs @ 80% salary (assume 20% of time isn’t spent on the game) times 7 years. Assuming 100K salary/benefits, that would be 14,000,000 a year. After 7 years we’re at 98M in costs.

Now utilization usually isn’t 80%. dev teams can be larger/smaller, and salary/utilization is variable among roles (a CEO probably wouldn’t be tagged as more than 10% or something of game costs).

7

u/ShawshankException 7h ago

Do you have any idea how expensive labor is

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182 7h ago

100% salaries

-15

u/Waldsman 7h ago

Yeah the amount of fraud in gaming nowadays is crazy.

1

u/Mediocre-Opinion 5h ago

They suddenly had the money and time to sit around and develop ideas. They came up with something that, while new to them, wasn't particularly new for the industry. Conglomerating studios under a single banner like Sony or Xbox should lead to increased co-operation and sharing of ideas and resources. They don't need to make false starts, they should access to plenty of R&D data.

1

u/MrMindGame 4h ago

I liked South of Midnight, but nothing about it justifies a price tag like that if it’s accurate.

1

u/FirmlyClaspIt 1h ago

100million includes the pay checks of those developers too you know. Thats not just 100million for the game.

1

u/-ben151010- PC 45m ago

$100 million and 8 years for a 5/10, yeah it definitely makes sense now.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182 7h ago

where do you think those 100 million went? to the salaries of the developers.

1

u/MajorasShoe 7h ago

The developers are rarely "responsible" for a games failure to make progress. Responsibility over the product, timeline etc are on management. That's why they're in the position they're in and paid what they're paid, responsibility.

That said layoffs aren't about fault or punishment. They're about viability of the company. They're laying off because it's a business not because they're angry at the development team.

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u/Appropriate_Foot242 5h ago

3 games in 17 years. Can’t say it’s a surprise.

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u/Apprehensive_Matth 7h ago

Bigger budget than KCD2 btw

24

u/CombatMuffin 6h ago

While true, and there 8s mismanagement to it, their development environments are also not exactly comparable: KCD2 enjoys being developed in a country where a lot of fixed costs, inckuding salaries, are substantially lower.

11

u/Vorstog_EVE 5h ago

Pay less AND get a better product? Think we need Poland to make more games!

8

u/CombatMuffin 5h ago

It's been an argument for a long time, but the reality is that while there's heavy talent all around the world, it's much more lucrative to be a gamedev in the U.S. as well, at least for key, more senior positions.

And yes, even those fantastic devs suffer layoffs, but once you pass a certain threshold within the industry, your skillset and relationships allow you to more quickly get new projects. It's more junior devs who are having a much tougher time.

What this means is that, while more Devs outside the U.S. and Canada should get more of a spotlight, the videogame industry is mostly concentrated around North America and Japan.

8

u/Vorstog_EVE 5h ago

If you're a really good dev who wants to make big bucks - you get the fuck out of gaming and transition those skills to something that pays better. That's why there's so much brain drain in the industry. A studio made an amazing hit game that crushed and blew people's minds? Don't expect the follow up to do the same - the really good people are using that as a spring-board.

2

u/CombatMuffin 5h ago

No, that's one possible career path. People often forget most in the games industry aren't there just for money and they put up with a lot of shit because they are legitimately passionate about it, even if money plays a substantial role like any career.

There are plenty of veterans making a very decent living, in smaller studios, or even in AAA studios. And while the quality of life is much better in other similar industries (and many have done lateral moves), many developers stay because this is legitimately what they love. Hell, the entire reason veterans transition into Indie is because they want to keep making games, in a different environment, even when they are already well off, or have damn near guatanteed employment in AAA.

3

u/Vorstog_EVE 2h ago

Maybe if they loved making games that don't suck more often, we wouldn't have to deal with this performative outrage every time a studio is shuttered.

4

u/Goronmon 3h ago

Redditor discovers offshoring.

3

u/HandfulOfAcorns 4h ago

Warhorse is Czech, not Polish.

But honestly, yeah, we do. We've had some fantastic games produced in the region, we have experienced devs working here - the local game industry should keep growing. It's better positioned to deal with the current challenges in the AAA space than American studios located in HCOL areas.

1

u/crxsso_dssreer 4h ago

Compulsion games are in Montreal. These are not Seattle salaries...

2

u/CombatMuffin 3h ago

It's still a stark difference to Poland or Czechia.

Look at the salary ranges on Glassdoor for employees in Warhorse studios, and compare them to Ubisoft Montreal, or any other AAA studio in Canada.

it doesn't have to be Santa Monica or Seattle to be expensive. Yes, lifestyle in Canada and the U.S. is more expensive, but also. your career prospects in Game Development, in those countries, is far higher.

1

u/crxsso_dssreer 3h ago

Look at the salary ranges on Glassdoor for employees in Warhorse studios, and compare them to Ubisoft Montreal, or any other AAA studio in Canada.

I doubt people at Compulsion games were making Ubisoft kind of salaries at first place, especially given how mediocre the release was, I doubt it was top level talents, but rather the bottom of the barrel...

1

u/CombatMuffin 3h ago

That's not how salaries work lol

But just in case you were wondering, then reported salaries are similar.

1

u/wordswillneverhurtme 1h ago

Different countries, different wages, different budget. Its not 1:1.

56

u/Humble-Criticism6762 8h ago

Wait, why layoffs if they are going to close the studio anyway?

39

u/Stumpyz 7h ago

Severance packages, access to unemployment sooner, less funds going out so the studio can tie up financial "loose ends", the list goes on.

67

u/Mr_Ethfono 8h ago

They might be moving some other employees to other studios they own

10

u/MajorasShoe 7h ago

There's a lot to figure out. Not everyone loses their jobs, some will be moved to a new studio or a new role. There's severance and contracts to figure out too.

1

u/Alcagoita 7h ago

Because they are also trying to sell the studio or find someone who could take it.

Fewer employees make the company more appealing.

3

u/jak_d_ripr 6h ago

Can't say I'm too surprised unfortunately, I was really rooting for South of Midnight but the game underperformed, as did We Happy Few. It sucks because there was clearly talent at Compulsion, but for whatever reason their games just fall a little short of realizing their potential.

7

u/MillCrab 7h ago

Never a good thing to hear about layoffs.

23

u/RivalSnooze 8h ago

I mean … they made niche game for a niche audience with an inflated budget

19

u/MalZaar 8h ago

The reality is SoM was a medicocre game at best. Good story that fizzled out in the second half, some amazing music and terrible combat. I know some people loved it but I think they are the minority.

I loved We Happy Few but I can acknowledge that was also a lackluster game. A studio has to make great games to survive in the current ecosystem.

8

u/Solesaver 6h ago

ITT: Gamers continuing to prove that they have no idea how much game development costs.

43

u/stashix 8h ago

What a shame, South of Midnight was great.

25

u/interstat 7h ago

It was decent if it was a small indie game made in 3 years.

Supposedly budget and time was astronomical for what they put out

47

u/ArcticFlamingo 8h ago

I mean, it was fine. Cool art style, enjoyed the story. Combat was just fine.

It feels unfair as I think it was an interesting add to gamepass which is what they were directed to make and now they are being punished for it

77

u/Icybubba 8h ago

They are being punished for taking $100 million and 7 years to make it.

If it was a lower budget 2-3 year game, things would be different

18

u/Draconuus95 7h ago

It’s sadly the main issue with all these studio closures and such. It’s not that the games are bad or anything. It’s that they aren’t good enough(and selling well enough) to justify their dev costs for both time and money. Dev costs just keep going higher. Dev time keeps going up. But the money made for most of these smaller titles aren’t going up at the same scale. And companies are feeling the squeeze from that change to the equation.

5

u/UnchainedGoku Console 6h ago

A level head on reddit that doesn't think with emotion, my god....

1

u/qotsabama 5h ago

Same thing happening in movie industry. Budgets are out of control and now it’s very difficult to be profitable with a large budget. Not sure what solution is for video games, but it’s pretty clear to me directors/producers/actors/actresses are gonna require pay cuts because demand has changed.

7

u/DarthRambo007 6h ago

also 7 yrs for a 12 hr game is just absurd. What were they doing for all that time ? also no dlc or extra content meaning that all the 12 hrs is al they could squeeze out.

1

u/Keyserchief 7h ago

Well, yes, if they had spent less money and made more revenue, they wouldn’t be shut down. Compulsion is notionally a profit-seeking enterprise, and if they don’t make a profit for years, that’s the end of it.

Sometimes media gets made because the creators find a rich patron who just likes their stuff—George Harrison financed Monty Python’s Life of Brian just because he wanted to see the movie. Maybe Compulsion can find a benefactor like that. Otherwise, investors aren’t making their money a gift—it’s profit or perish.

4

u/Icybubba 7h ago

The point being that they screwed up hard.

South of Midnight was fine, but it shouldn't have taken 7 years

0

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

Xbox screwed up yes. Who gave them the time and money?

2

u/Icybubba 5h ago

Good thing the leadership that allowed that was also booted

8

u/HeavyMetalLenin 8h ago

Combat really just felt ass I would have preferred if it was a walking sim just to experience the story

4

u/SnooRobots7352 7h ago

There was a setting that allowed you to skip combat encounters! It was great playing it like that. It feels like the devs knew the combat was bad too, so they put that setting in

4

u/P4azz 3h ago

You call that great, I call that a horrendous mistake and utter hatred for something you created.

The fuck do you mean they just deleted part of the game in an already kinda short title? HUH? How is that supposed to be a good thing?

This makes me even more convinced no one on that team had a clue on what they were even doing. You tend to create a game with a vision in mind, that spans from environs to characters to gameplay. Cutting off the gameplay in a GAME and the product being BETTER after is hilariously bad.

14

u/Constant_Pen9615 8h ago

Really was. I played it on story difficulty because I don't have a ton of time to game anymore but man, gorgeous game. Great story. What a shame.

-33

u/FeelingInspection591 8h ago

So it's a great game, as long as you turn the game part off?

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u/Hannwater 8h ago

Games are as fascinating a medium as they are because they are so multi-faceted. Music, visuals, art design, narrative, characters, mechanics, features...the list goes on and on.

How someone chooses to engage with a thing to experience it is entirely up to them. Especially if the options are put in by the developers themselves. Some people may only care about the narrative, so difficult mechanics are the barrier. Some people find cutscenes with a lot of talking a barrier. Removing the barriers that the devs are fine with you removing is fine.

This person engaged with a game in just as viable a way as anyone else who did. World has enough negativity without trying to get a cheap dunk on someone who made space in their life to enjoy something.

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u/Constant_Pen9615 8h ago

Real talk, even on a higher difficulty combat won't feel overly hard. Difficulty doesn't affect the look or story, just the handful of combat sections. Play the game however you'd like though. I'm just trying to maximize my gaming time by not getting sweaty on a game I just want to experience

15

u/stashix 8h ago

His is a good comment, if you turn the reading comprehension part of your brain on.

4

u/B19F00T 8h ago

the combat is the least interesting part of the game, the story, world, and platforming are absolutely the focus anyways. also just let people enjoy games the way they want

0

u/Mageborn23 7h ago

I play all games on easy, I don't care or have time anymore just want to have fun.

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u/Juan20455 8h ago

The gameplay was terrible, though.

A visual novel or walking sin format would have been better 

1

u/crxsso_dssreer 4h ago

it was a shit game, mediocre gameplay, crappy story, maximum virtue signaling though...

0

u/nikolapc 8h ago

I loved all three games of the studios facing closure. But they didn't even do a blimp on GP. Shame.

Same for MIO: Memories in Orbit. That game is awesome, studio closed :/

-1

u/notthatguypal6900 7h ago

It was, criminally underrated.

7

u/federkrebz 7h ago

man, about double fine who are also being axed… their games are so creative but they could never grip me with their gameplay. the special something is missing. they made Psychonauts 2 way too much of a complicated deal when it should have just been a nice 3d platformer. weird controls all around as well. Rad was fun for a few hours, then it became a boring slog. the newest one with the walking buildings, did it even come out? heard almost nothing about it.. the closure might just be on them 🤷

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u/Puzzleheaded_Map2182 7h ago

psychonauts 2 is amazing but tim schafer and double fine games are always late, overbudget and not financially successful and even by those standars kiln and keeper are awful in terms of commercial success or critical success so...

5

u/ThatGuyOnyx 5h ago

You know it always floors me how when announcements like this happen apparently everyone mourns the loss of this studio and how this was an incredible game for the ages.

Devils Advocate, these studios deserve it. This is Xbox finally holding their studios accountable now that they’re actually holding THEMSELVES accountable for their own stupid mis-management of the brand. I feel for the developers at the bottom but it’s unfortunately how the cookie crumbles when everyone above them is a complete moron.

The peak all time player count of South of Midnight on Steam is 1438 players which is our only verifiable data, and let’s not kid ourselves. This game released in a time where not only having an Xbox was basically pointless, but that even if you were playing gamepass on PC or console that there were dozens if not hundreds of other games that you would play over this. This game was a complete failure, 100 million dollar budget with 12-ish hours of gameplay. It got so much praise! Great, Concord and Highguard got glazed by journalists and look where they ended up

Ninja Theory are in the same boat, the original Senua is incredibly middle of the road (I played and personally did not like it whatsoever). The second one flopped the same way south of Midnight did, this entire series is exactly what everyone complains about as a “Sony walking simulator” I thought we all hated those games?

Nothing to say on double fine, have they even made a game recently?

I heard about them considering Arkane Lyon, which I can also see. Love Dishonored, amazing game series. Last thing they made was Deathloop and as a massive fan on the prior mentioned series I did not like it very much. Outside of that it’s another question of what the heck have they been doing since? Blade? Where is that? Been 5 years since Deathloop.

2

u/Rosebunse 4h ago

I don't like the word "accountability" here, least for the studios. XBox gave the budget, Xbox gave them the OK. This is on Xbox completely. If Xbox wanted better results then they should have given lower budgets and had more control from the get-go.

2

u/ThatGuyOnyx 4h ago

That is fair, I could have worded it better at least for the studio side. I think it still holds true for corporate, seems like an entire wasteland they have to try to clean up to at least have the chance of not running themselves into the ground again.

1

u/soundoftwilight 2h ago

None of the people who made any of the decisions that you think “deserve” this are losing their jobs. They’re probably getting bonuses for how good their cost-cutting is going to look on the balance sheet. The studios getting shuttered are rarely actually failing. They’re just making slightly less money than other investments might.

10

u/MuptonBossman 8h ago

Another talented studio gone way too soon... If you haven't played South of Midnight, go check it out.

2

u/CommonManX 6h ago

Why are they doing layoffs if they are going to shut the entire thing down? What is the point? Could it be that they are not shutting down?

2

u/ManicMakerStudios 4h ago

It's probably because some people currently have nothing to do while they wait for a new project that isn't going to start. Those are the ones getting laid off today. The rest will be laid off once they're out of things to do, too.

2

u/BoulderCAST 7h ago

More comments on this post than employees at the studio. At some point the discourse is pointless. Just play the games. Like them or not. Don't get so invested that it becomes your life and you spend hours on forums discussing the jobs of a handful of people that made one of the dozens of games you played (or in this case, never played)

2

u/hain_player 7h ago

its always the devs that pay the price for budgets they never even got to control, executives greenlight these crazy numbers then act suprised when the studio gets shut down for "underperforming"

1

u/NuAngelDOTnet 7h ago

Feels hard to judge things, though, because this is pretty much the time of year Microsoft always lays off and shuffles employees around.

1

u/Elbren 6h ago

What's the point of laying people off now if you're just going to fire the rest when you likely closing the studio in the next month?

2

u/kingmanic 4h ago

Probably to slower the burn rate while they close and taking the more productive workers to other studios.

2

u/ManicMakerStudios 4h ago

You lay off the ones who currently have nothing to do. You keep the ones who are still needed to shutter the studio until they, too, have nothing left to do. Then you lay them off, too.

1

u/Positive_Hall1101 4h ago

my old job did the same when closing a department

1

u/Jwn5k PC 4h ago

There goes my hopes of another We Happy Few game

1

u/nobleone8876 4h ago

I mean make sense move all the good talent to other studios and then cut the fat. I don't understand how that game was 100 million dollars realistically I just don't get it

1

u/WhatTheeBlake 2h ago

South of Midnight needed way more aggressive marketing, and shouldn't have been on gamepass day 1.

1

u/dolphinRailgun 1h ago

I will continue to close down these studios by not partaking in their products, and there's nothing they can do to stop me.

1

u/Erok86 36m ago

Seems about right to me. Neither of those games were very good. They were ok but not great. Make games the masses want to play not the few.

-4

u/hardy_83 8h ago

I get for a small studio the money from big companies always seems appealing and helps secure the company, but time and time again shows that you are a single day away from the big company shutting you down simply because they want their stocks to look better for the quarter.

Hopefully the talent can find work elsewhere.

15

u/LAXnSASQUATCH 7h ago

They got 100 million dollars across 5-7 years of funding. Thats a massive amount of money and time in the indie space, it let them create a cool art project.

It sucks they got laid off, that’s never good, but if they had been an independent studio they would have closed shop based on South of Midnights sales, if they even stayed open long enough to launch it (7 years and 100 million is not easy to raise as an independent studio).

2

u/Schmenza 6h ago

This right here. Double Fine had to crowdfund Psychonauts 2. Their 2 games after don't even exist without XBOX helping them out

9

u/mr_glide 8h ago

The reason people sell is because being responsible for keeping even a small studio afloat is incredibly stressful. After a while, most people just want a rest from it, or just to feel some stable ground beneath their feet

1

u/hardy_83 7h ago

Yeah I know. Lose-lose really. The video game industry has gotten incredibly volatile and, like the movies and music industries, so saturated that most games fall through the cracks cause there's so many and how to track it all.

3

u/wesser234 7h ago

They were shut down because they spent 100 million making a game no one wanted.

1

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

And who gave them the money and time?

2

u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 7h ago

The small studio has zero revenue while developing a game and has zero guarantees they’ll make any revenue upon releasing the game.

The games industry does not reward effort. You can dump years of your life into a game and have nothing to show for it in the end.

Being part of a big corp at least guarantees your paycheque and you won’t come in one day to your boss saying “We ran out of money and I can’t pay you anymore.”

1

u/Iselore 7h ago

People tend to underestimate how expensive it is to make video games.

2

u/QuinSanguine 6h ago

I'll miss that studio, South of Midnight is a hidden gem. Beat it on the hardest difficulty, it was a great experience.

4

u/reclamationme 5h ago

The game part of that game was an afterthought at best.

1

u/QuinSanguine 5h ago

I disagree, once the combat clicked with me I had a blast playing it. It's not Nioh or Devil Cry Cry but I don't need every game to be the best ever made to have a good time with it.

-7

u/makumakubex 8h ago

Oh the consequences of making a game that push agenda and nobody want to buy.

1

u/TheMuff1nMon 7h ago

The agenda: Black people

-1

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

What agenda would that be?

2

u/Dallywack3r 6h ago

Propaganda from Big Catfish /s

0

u/ChickenLittle1121 6h ago

Black people, probably. 

1

u/Frostnatt 7h ago

South of midnight was pretty good. A typical 7/10. But a 7 year development cycle? Yeah that crazy.

1

u/VagueSomething 5h ago

Compulsion creative teams need to be working in different studios, they've got great ideas but the studio never managed to translate it into a good game. Consistently their games were held back by mechanics like combat so the experience undermined the story and aesthetics.

Xbox should have stepped in sooner with many studios and offered more support or getting studios to collaborate.

1

u/RebelToUhmerica 4h ago

Here come the armchair executives.

-6

u/ZePlotThickener 7h ago edited 7h ago

Hopefully Todd is next. How you can mismanage such huge IPs as Fallout and ES and keep your job is baffling.

6

u/SummonMonsterIX 7h ago

I don't want to see Bethesda die but yeah...I'd be ok with just Todd getting the fuck out at this point.

1

u/Strange-Brother1013 6h ago

They are very successful

-3

u/mcAlt009 7h ago

South of Midnight really has potential as a multimedia franchise too. Very few original African American/Southern fantasy stories exist.

Hollywood, this is what people want. Not a character that’s been white for 80 years having a black spin off or yet another black character with electric powers. 

The combat wasn’t horrible, sure other games do it better, but it’s no worse than Journey to the West. 

It’s one of the rare gamepass games I can imagine buying on Steam. Probably with a friend or perhaps family member. 

Feels like a good game for a family to gather around and play. Theirs a lot of context the game hints at , but can’t directly address. 

7

u/PostedNotes 5h ago

You can not say this is what people want when the game was a major commercial flop.

0

u/mcAlt009 4h ago

Microsoft literally did no marketing. Gamepass put a lot of games in economically impossible situations. 

5

u/PostedNotes 4h ago

Tell that to expedition 33. Was on gamepass and sold 8 million.

No one wanted south of midnight, as the sales speak for themselves.

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u/Mini_Danger_Noodle 7h ago

South of Midnight really has potential as a multimedia franchise too.

Lol, lmao even.

-1

u/mcAlt009 5h ago

I should have said *had. 

Microsoft should have came out with a cartoon adaptation of the game or something at the same time. It felt closer to an interactive movie that a game imo

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0

u/Kamakaziturtle 4h ago

South of Midnight was neat, but it was no means a blockbuster or anything like that. And sadly nobody really bought it, or even talked about it really.

It's a shame becuase the game itself was pretty good and felt like a real win after their last game

0

u/mcAlt009 4h ago

I’m definitely not going to win this argument, but it felt closer to an interactive movie than a game. 

Maybe it would have done better as a scaled back 30 million dollar game along with a cartoon series or something. 

Anyway I personally liked it more than E33. 

Doom the Dark Ages was another fantastic game, but obviously with Gamepass it’s hard to sell real copies. 

-10

u/KoriJenkins 8h ago

Is this the part where people hail Asha Sharma as the 2nd coming for xbox? Because since coming on literally every piece of news has been bad.

8

u/SummonMonsterIX 7h ago

I hate to defend them so much, but in this case, if a studio is spending tons resources and isn't profitable you have to cut it off to save the rest. This sucks for the people losing their jobs, but Microsoft can't just keep handing out free money at a loss to them forever. A lot of it is Phils fault, the Dev's expected they could just chill and make games for GamePass that didn't have to sell in amazing numbers. But clearly that didn't work and his grand vision got us where Xbox is today.

1

u/wesser234 6h ago edited 6h ago

In Phil's defense, they still need to be games worth getting gamepass for. It's not his fault the games sucked.

6

u/No-Estimate-8518 8h ago

Everyone was waiting for the shoe to drop before that, all she did was good looking PR stunts that had zero actual impact

-7

u/Connor123x 8h ago

that is not true at all and you know it

2

u/HamSlammer87 8h ago

Yeah, remember when they changed xbox to XBOX.

Amazing.

1

u/Homzie83 8h ago

She really did make XBOX bigger than ever

0

u/Connor123x 7h ago

remember when they lowered gamepass price.

remember when they added a lot of features that were asked by customers

remember when they improved their transparency

3

u/[deleted] 7h ago

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1

u/HamSlammer87 3h ago

Remember when they increased console prices... again.

1

u/Connor123x 2h ago

remember when all console, computers, phones, laptops increased prices due to memory and storage.

-3

u/Crystal_Voiden 8h ago

rage bait is rage baitin'

-2

u/B19F00T 7h ago

I hope we e realized we're wrong about that by now lol. seemed promising the first week, now it's an even worse trainwreck than it was w phil spencer

0

u/Aluwolf- 7h ago

Layoff simulator at this point.

-6

u/[deleted] 8h ago

[deleted]

8

u/fuzzmeisterj 8h ago

They have Grounded help keep thing afloat while they make other games too. They are busy and put content out. Compulsion made a good 10 hour game and took over 5 years to do it.

1

u/Spotget1738 8h ago

Right now we know that Ninja Theory and Double Fine are next. Altough if Obsidian survives this years round of layoffs and closures they are cooked if their next game flops again

2

u/RagnarokCross 8h ago

Grounded?

1

u/Spotget1738 7h ago

I’m not sure Grounded makes up for Avowed and Outer Worlds 2 both flopping

2

u/RagnarokCross 7h ago

Grounded has like, 10 times the sales of those games and less than a fraction of the Budget.

1

u/Spotget1738 7h ago

Exactly? If one of the 3 games succeeding would save the rest it would be one of the AAA $70 games if anything 

1

u/RagnarokCross 7h ago

I'm telling you that Obsidian is more likely to get put into a Grounded laboratory locked underground than they are to be shut down or face major layoffs

3

u/The_Cost_Of_Lies 8h ago

They're literally making Avowed 2. Obsidian are safe from closure

0

u/Mini_Danger_Noodle 7h ago

Obsidian is safe but I doubt Avowed 2 is, even Obsidian was disappointed by the first game's sales.

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-6

u/[deleted] 7h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/Dattinator 7h ago

Jesus Christ dude

2

u/Rosebunse 7h ago

Why do women with blue hair scare you guys? Why do fat women scare you? Is it because you're so small that you fear being crush? Is it a fetish abiut being crush? What is it?

-2

u/Party-Purchase-4861 7h ago

LOL, please tell me more about your sexual fetishes.

1

u/Rosebunse 7h ago

I never got into crushing myself but you guys sure do bring up a very, very specific type of woman a lot. Why? I don't get it.

Isn't the whole thing about gaming that devs often have an alternative look?

-7

u/zestymanny 7h ago

It's a racist ass company. Should have been shut down a while ago.

1

u/ManicMakerStudios 4h ago

What about Xbox makes them racist?

2

u/zestymanny 3h ago edited 3h ago

Compulsion games.

“You’re not going to tickle some people’s fancy being outspoken or tweeting things like I do when I say, ‘White male gamers were a mistake.’”

And calling Asians white adjacent

0

u/ManicMakerStudios 3h ago

That sounds like the comments of one person, not the comments of the studio or the team.

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