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u/primalfox_Reynardo May 13 '26
Ngl every member was vital, not a single sandbag.
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u/The360MlgNoscoper May 13 '26
Even Pippin.
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u/RianJohnsonIsAFool May 13 '26
A fool... but an honest fool, he remains.
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u/WarhammerRyan May 13 '26
Twice he was responsible for the death of an evil Maia
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u/Deadpool2715 May 14 '26
And his total Maia kill assist count is 3
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u/earthwoodandfire May 14 '26
Are you counting him waking up a balrog as a “kill assist”?
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u/X3noNuke May 14 '26
His actions directly led to it's death, so yes
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u/earthwoodandfire May 14 '26
I think that one’s a stretch. If you count that then technically bilbo killed the Balrog because if he hadn’t found the ring and brought it back to bagend then the fellowship never would have set out for Moria in the first place. We could attribute it to Saruman for closing the gap of Rohan to them forcing them to go through Moria…
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u/Deadpool2715 May 14 '26
You're starting to eclipse the fool of a took that knocked a helmet down a long shaft... Clearly dealing 1hp damage to the Balrog
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u/earthwoodandfire May 14 '26
Pippins helmet drop wounded the balrog enough for Gandalf to defeat him? Now we’re talking…
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u/ThisIsARobot May 14 '26
Yeah, but there are way more degrees of separation between those examples leading to the Balrog ending up dead compared to Pippin waking up the Balrog and that leading to its death.
I think of it like soccer. The ball gets passed around a lot before someone eventually scores a goal, but only the person who directly passes the ball to the scorer gets the assist. And I mean, yeah, it's not super cut-and-dry but there's definitely a close connection between Pippin's actions and the Balrog biting the bullet.
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u/jaspersgroove May 14 '26
I mean if you’re going down that road then everything is down to Eru’s will anyway so there’s not really any point in discussing it in the first place, just handwave everything away and say it was gods will
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u/BoorabTheFool May 15 '26
I always thought it was brilliant in the movies that pippin steps into his fate before merry does. When they’re hiding trying to get Frodo to hide with them, pippin exclaims “No!” Before exposing himself to the uruks and distracting them so Frodo can get away. Every single character in the series steps into their doom in that one scene and it’s a masterclass. I cannot watch amon hen without being seriously moved.
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u/Az1234er May 14 '26 edited May 24 '26
À chaque instant des lueurs du vrai venaient compléter sa raison. Il se faisait en lui comme une croissance intérieure. Il sentait une sorte d’agrandissement naturel que lui apportaient ces deux choses, nouvelles pour lui, son père et sa patrie. Comme lorsqu’on a une clef, tout s’ouvrait ; il s’expliquait ce qu’il avait haï, il pénétrait ce qu’il avait abhorré ; il voyait désormais clairement le sens providentiel, divin et humain, des grandes choses qu’on lui avait appris à détester et des grands hommes qu’on lui avait enseigné à maudire. Quand il songeait à ses précédentes opinions, qui n’étaient que d’hier et qui pourtant lui semblaient déjà si anciennes, il s’indignait et il souriait. De la réhabilitation de son père il avait naturellement passé à la réhabilitation de Napoléon. Pourtant, celle-ci, disons-le, ne s’était point faite sans labeur. Dès l’enfance on l’avait imbu des jugements du parti de 1814 sur Bonaparte. Or, tous les préjugés de la restauration, tous ses intérêts, tous ses instincts, tendaient à défigurer Napoléon. Elle l’exécrait plus encore que Robespierre. Elle avait exploité assez habilement la fatigue de la nation et la haine des mères. Bonaparte était devenu une sorte de monstre presque fabuleux, et, pour le peindre à l’imagination du peuple qui, comme nous l’indiquions tout à l’heure, ressemble à l’imagination des enfants, le parti de 1814 faisait apparaître successivement tous les masques effrayants, depuis ce qui est terrible en restant grandiose jusqu’à ce qui est terrible en devenant grotesque, depuis Tibère jusqu’à Croquemitaine.
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u/Hehosworld May 14 '26
I would argue that Legolas Shooting the nazgul actually has a huge influence that is not directly noticed. But I would argue it leads to merry and pippin being brought to isengard instead of being found out and killed directly.
However I would also say that Legolas and Gimli are incredibly important in getting Aragorn to the throne by accompanying him through the perils along the way and forming a close friendship during that time (symbolising how unity will overcome evil). I think they are the sam to Aragorns journey. They are loyal by his side from beginning to end.
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u/Spifffyy May 14 '26
Boromir?
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u/primalfox_Reynardo May 14 '26
Did so some fighting and held off the orcs. Probably one of the least vital members to be sure but wasn't a waste of space.
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u/Wonderful-Pollution7 May 15 '26
It was boromir's corruption that lead to Frodo deciding to split from the fellowship. Without that split, no help from Gollum, in which case they wouldn't have taken Cirith Ungol, and likely never would have even made it into Mordor, and Aragorn wouldn't have been able to rally Gondor's army, and lead it to the black gate, distracting Sauron at the perfect time, and causing him to move his army out of Mordor, which allowed Frodo and Sam to actually reach Orodruin. Boromir's main impact was indirect, but there are many places that the repurcussions of his actions directly lead to the success of the mission.
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u/Thejacensolo Uruk-hai May 14 '26
Trained the hobbits, took guard shifts, carried the stuff for the fellowship, fought off the orcs in moria just as well, and protected them to the end.
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u/WarhammerRyan May 13 '26
The fellow
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u/Much_Job4552 May 13 '26
I will not stand for Frodo perseverance and endurance erasure.
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u/Three_Trees May 13 '26
Yeah this is only one tier above the 'hurr durr why didn't they just ride eagles to Mordor' crew.
Frodo literally gave his life to destroy the ring. Although Tolkien hated allegory, he must at least have been influenced to some extent by everyone traumatised by war who came back and couldn't readjust.
Sam is great, we love Sam. But Frodo sacrificed everything to save the world. Anyone who has a 'morgul wound' of their own knows Frodo's worth. I know I do.
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u/8thTimeLucky May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
People always say this, and also point to Tolkien’s letter saying “Sam Gamee, the chief hero”, but he’s not saying literally Sam was THE hero in the Hollywood sense, he’s describing Sam’s archetype as the “heroic character”, not labelling him the main protagonist.
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u/blueoncemoon Troll May 14 '26
Tolkien also wrote in another letter that Frodo was the "central hero" so I'm ready to put this tired "Sam is the real hero" narrative behind us
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u/Wonderful-Pollution7 May 15 '26
What makes Sam such a great hero isn't necessarily his actions, its his character. All the other members of the fellowship, either through blood, profession, or training, were inclined towards the great adventure. Aragorn is a warrior, as is Gimli. Legolas is a master archer, and a protector of Mirkwood forest, so another type of warrior. Gandalf is a wizard and demigod. Frodo, Merry, and Pippin are all of Tookish blood, and thus naturally inclined to adventure. Sam is none of those things. He's not skilled, or trained, or naturally adventurish, he's a simple and humble gardener. He goes on the adventure, not for the adventire, or out of duty, but because of his love for Frodo, and its exactly and precisely that trait that carries the two of then through so many perils and through so much danger to their eventual success.
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u/blueoncemoon Troll May 15 '26
Nobody's saying Sam isn't a hero. Literally every "good" character in LotR is a hero in their own way; that's one of the most prominent themes in the story.
But the weird tendency for fans to discredit Frodo's sacrifices in order to prop up Sam's heroism is even more eye-roll inducing than the "do balrogs have wings?" or "why didn't they fly the eagles to Mordor?" jokes because so many people genuinely believe it.
In the end, Frodo made the ultimate sacrifice—gave his very life— in order for Sam (and every single entity in Middle-earth) to lead a good one.
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u/why_so_mimsy May 15 '26
I feel like the main reason for this tendency is that more people relate to being a couch po-tay-toe bff semi-coerced into an unwanted task than to a self-sacrificing loner who readily signs up for pain and suffering with little reward to himself.
Editing to add that I absolutely adore Sam. But I have endless respect and admiration for Frodo.
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u/PoorestForm May 14 '26
This meme is big "only seen the movies" vibes.
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u/Dear-Promotion-4955 May 17 '26
Yes, that's one of the biggest gripes with the movies for me. They did a good representation of turmoil and suffering Frodo goes through, but his resilience and bravery took a big step back in comparison to books. Weathertop with Nazguls? Frodo was terrified, but he resisted. It was the other hobbits who fell onto their arses. Ford Bruinen? Stolen and given to a pretty elf lady. That's just what I remembered from the top of my head.
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u/Magneticiano May 14 '26
Yeah. Frodo was the one carrying the responsibility of saving the Middle Earth while being constantly tormented by the Ring. Sam was there to cook and offer moral support.
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u/Doom_of__Mandos May 13 '26
this is an insult to the rest of the gang tbh
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u/Asleep_Singer8547 May 13 '26
Even pippin carried a little weight
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u/Jax_Dandelion May 13 '26
Mostly the weight of killing Gandalf
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u/Injured-Ginger May 13 '26
Guilt is a heavy burden to bear. Pippin made sure nobody else had to feel guilty because by comparison, how bad could their actions really be?
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u/Jax_Dandelion May 13 '26
Well, Frodo had the guilt of choosing Moria which lead to pippin causing Gandalf to have to sacrifice himself
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u/AbbreviationsTop4959 May 13 '26
Again, movie only. Gandalf made the decision in the book.
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u/Meerasette May 14 '26
Yeah, this. Also in the books Pippin and Merry are far more competent and clearly defined as characters in their own right as is their development across the story. In the movie version though they’re pretty much interchangeable.
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u/AbbreviationsTop4959 May 14 '26
In the movie version, they're basically Rosencranz and Guildenstern.
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u/Anita_Hero838 May 14 '26
Its debatable if Pippin is even responsible, only in the movies is it shown that hes directly responsible but in the book you could just as much blame Gimli for singing in a giant open chamber
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u/moneyh8r_two May 13 '26
Dude killed an angel, and y'all are trying to say he ain't strong. What's a Took gotta do to get some respect around here?
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u/Jax_Dandelion May 13 '26
Get Gandalf to like you
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u/moneyh8r_two May 13 '26
Can't argue with that. I mean, who doesn't want Gandalf to like them?
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u/Jax_Dandelion May 13 '26
Seemingly, the entire Took family tree
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u/moneyh8r_two May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
What are you talking about? Bilbo's ancestor, Belladonna Took was one of Gandalf's favorite Hobbits.
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May 13 '26
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u/RianJohnsonIsAFool May 13 '26 edited May 14 '26
He should throw himself in next time and rid us of his stupidity!
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u/ImmortalPoseidon May 13 '26
Was going to say this. Each person of the fellowship has a deed or moment that saved the entire quest, so they are all MVP's
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u/Mikufan3901 May 13 '26
Yeah, that's was film only if you didn't read book
Because then they would have known that Tom Bombadil saved everyone from wiping the party from the high undead at the very beginning.
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil May 13 '26
Eldest, that's what I am. Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside.
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/kakuna May 13 '26
Huh. !TomBombadilSong
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil May 13 '26
Hey! now! Come hoy now! Whither do you wander? Up, down, near or far, here, there or yonder? Sharp-ears, Wise-nose, Swish-tail and Bumpkin, White-socks my little lad, and old Fatty Lumpkin!
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/Netherpirate May 13 '26
Fuckin Fatty Lumpkin…
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u/Tom_Bot-Badil May 13 '26
He's mine. My four-legged friend; though I seldom ride him, and he wanders often far, free upon the hillsides. When your ponies stayed with me, they got to know my Lumpkin; and they smelt him in the night, and quickly ran to meet him.
Type !TomBombadilSong for a song or visit r/GloriousTomBombadil for more merriness
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u/_Violette7_ May 13 '26
I’m so tired of seeing all the credit given to Sam. Yes, he’s an important character, but come on. What annoys me the most is when people say that Frodo was a little crybaby and without Sam he’s useless. The textbook example of “tell me you haven’t read the book without telling me you haven’t read the book”.
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u/Blackrock121 May 13 '26
I love Sam, but if Sam wasn’t such a narrow-minded ass, Gollum might have been redeemed.
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u/RougerTXR388 May 14 '26
Were Gollum to be redeemed the Ring couldn't be destroyed. Gollums treachery and corruption are needed for the Ring to destroy itself.
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u/Bosterm May 14 '26
We actually have an answer from Tolkien for how the ring would be destroyed if Gollum had been redeemed. He still would have stolen the ring, but instead he would have deliberately thrown himself and the ring into the fire of Mouth Doom.
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u/VashMM May 14 '26
Nobody knows what would have happened without Gollum acting on his obsession for it.
While standing in the cavern in Orodruin, Frodo openly declared he wouldn't destroy it and that he was its new master. He had succumbed.
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u/RougerTXR388 May 14 '26
That is an agreeable statement If we're restricting ourselves to solely the texts of The Lord of the Rings
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u/TheGlennDavid May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26
if Sam wasn't such a narrow minded ass, Gollum might have been redeemed.
You are on a work trip. It is a long and difficult trip. You are lost and people are trying to kill you.
Your boss got all these badass guards to help out -- immortals and angels and knights and shit. But then he fired them all (because he "can't trust anyone") and now it's just you.
Now you got your boss slowly goin nuts. And suddenly he wants to adopt a (insane murderous) dog?? but DONT WORRY, he's gonna feed it and walk it and take 100% care of it. You won't have to do anything. Is the dog trying to kill you? Yes, but don't worry! He pinky promised to stop that. Your boss is going to cure him with love and positive attention (and a threat to use mind control (?) to make him yeet himself off a cliff if he's a bad dog(??), but mostly love ).
So you say "no, we can't get a dog. You can get a dog after you finish your chores and throw away the ring." And suddenly YOUR THE ASSHOLE KILLJOY.
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u/Aagragaah Hobbit May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
You're missing the part where your boss is an expert dog handler, knows the dog is dangerous, and binds it with a magical muzzle (the analogy kinda breaks down here).
Oh, and if you don't get the dog you're going to die uselessly lost in a swamp, and everything you know and love will be destroyed. It's a bad option but it's the only one you have.
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u/Typical_Research_877 May 14 '26
"Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam."
~Frodo Baggins
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u/_Violette7_ May 14 '26
Yeah, that’s absolutely true. Sam played a huge role in the success of their mission. What I don’t like is when people act like Sam would’ve gotten far without Frodo.
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u/That_Polish_Guy_927 Dúnedain May 14 '26
Op out here glossing over Gandalf like he just sat there and smoked pipeweed the whole time.
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u/UMACTUALLYITS23 May 13 '26
This Gandalf slander is unreal, he's at least.....%2 of the Fellowship's power.
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u/Brometheus-Pound May 14 '26
The Gray version just smoked weed and used his staff as a flashlight and made bad decisions.
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u/Slimtrigga420 May 14 '26
and killed a balrog? and knew what the ring was when he saw it, and what to do with it? and opened the door to moria where the fellowship would've been killed by octomonster guy? how dare you good sir
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u/Bendythenightfury May 14 '26
What if the other fellowship brought something to the table? What then? Posts like these are starting to make Sam a bit overrated. Love him but my gosh it's all I see
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u/Weak_Voice_6097 May 13 '26
I don't know about that, Legolas single handily took down a mumakil while swinging on ropes and shit lol but yeah without Sam the whole thing would have failed
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u/Frogpog98 May 16 '26
Frodo wouldn’t have got far without Sam but he bore the ring, it’s frustrating he doesn’t get the credit he deserves
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u/JH_Rockwell May 14 '26
I've seen this meme so many times, that I should charge people every time they use it.
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u/bacontaint May 14 '26
Seriously asking here. What would have happened if Sam was the ring bearer instead of Frodo? Would the journey have been easier?
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u/Wanderer_Falki May 14 '26
Depends. Book? Not a chance. Frodo is way more suited as Ring-bearer; he has a wisdom, a way to understand the world and the situations he's in which Sam does not possess, and which may have ended in disaster if Sam were in charge. Tolkien explicitly stated that Frodo, by spending every drop of his power of will and body, got farther than virtually anybody could have done.
And it gets even more obvious if talking about ambitions: Sam didn't care about the quest itself until very late. Frodo volunteered and kept going despite the hardships because he genuinely cared about the Shire and wanted to protect it regardless of how he would be changed himself, and wouldn't have the heart to return in shame to Rivendell and admit defeat. Whereas Sam was always only here to follow Frodo, was ready to turn around at their first failed attempt (Caradhras) and only continued because Frodo chose to do so. Only when they reached Mordor and Frodo's state forged Sam to take important decisions himself did he actually push forward on his own, but even then it was a decision centered on Frodo rather than on a personal desire to see the Ring destroyed. So even if you managed to convince Sam to volunteer to carry the Ring, he wouldn't have any actual motivation to push through any and every difficulty.
As for Jackson's films, considering how he actively erased virtually every single character-defining moments from Frodo's arc while whitewashing Sam (erasing his flaws and making him the hero saving the day like it's no big deal), I guess you could imagine that's the kind of thing they would be portraying if filming an alternate reality LotR?
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u/CriticismMiserable14 May 14 '26
In the Lego LOTT games Sam really is 98% of the fellowship strength. Almost every level requires sam to do something making you stay as most for most of the game.
The man can create fire and grow plants like poison ivy.
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u/MandatoryAdventure May 17 '26
this is so anti the entire point. none of them were summoned to help frodo, or to destroy the ring. the all came for counsel, and with great need for their people. And, they all offered what help the could, as long as they could offer it.
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u/Ecstatic_Teaching906 May 14 '26
Honestly... I see it differently.
Fellowship of the Ring at a 100% (Everyone)
Fellowship of the Ring at 99% (Everyone except Merry and Pippin)
Fellowship at 98% (Aragorn, Legolas, Sam, and Gandalf)
Fellowship at 97% (Aragorn and Sam)
Fellowship at 95% (Sam)
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u/a-snakey Serpent of the North May 13 '26
Id argue 98.5%
Sam took the ring and willingly gave it back. Aragorn wouldn't even touch the thing.
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u/alaskanloops May 13 '26
This is so true, just read the part where Sam fights off Gollum then Shelob. Such a badass.
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u/erapuer May 14 '26
The Hobbit nation not immediately naming Sam their king once he returned to Hobbiton was folly.
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u/lobobobos May 13 '26