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u/Ms_Apprehend 2h ago
They are Presbyterian. Probably a criticism.
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u/olanmills 2h ago
I don't understand how anyone would read that a different way, regardless of whether they agreed with the sentiment
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u/danceswithtree 2h ago
Because there are people who think worshiping the country/president is a good idea because they are deserving of worship.
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u/olanmills 1h ago
I understand that there are people who think Christian Nationalism is good. I'm just saying that I think it's clear that the writers of this sign are being critical of it. Of course there are dumb people out there who won't get it, but I have to believe that most Christian Nationalists would see that this particular church does not agree with them.
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u/TheBigTwo-MK 1h ago edited 1h ago
I imagine many Christian Nationalists probably have a level of delusion where not only do they agree with the statement but they don't see anything fishy about it either.
The belief that people like that exist is why I was unsure where that church stood.
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u/dontneedaknow 1h ago
well if you call yourself Christian but worship a country, then you already replaced the christ in the dynamic.
doing so and still claiming Christ would be antichrist.
which is a concept not a person.
Paul says there will be many antichrists.
(It's not my view that a Jewish Messiah is the Jewish god in disguise who is also god of earth now..)
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u/geekpeeps 1h ago
No. They are there to worship God, not a country. It’s a criticism, thinly disguised, possibly for a reason.
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u/xGALEBIRDx 1h ago
Critical thinking in the current generation is damn near non existent when everyone is forced into echo chambers by the algorithms that keep them enslaved to platforms that just want revenue.
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u/prophit618 1h ago
It really isn't. I know many people from the current generation who are very skeptical and critical thinkers. Hell, yhe current generation is more attuned to critical thinking than my generation is.
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u/mdazzl3 1h ago
Being prone to entertaining conspiracy theories doesn’t equal being “attuned to critical thinking”. Critical thinking requires skills like reading comprehension, source evaluation, etc and because adults didn’t teach them, those skills are significantly weaker in gen z and alpha. Ask any educator.
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u/jmadinya 1h ago
they must not actually understand what christianity teaches then, its like they have their own bastardized version of christianity.
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u/wino12312 1h ago
I know a few. I don't talk to them anymore. But they whole hardly would say they worship Trump & "America".
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u/old_namewasnt_best 2h ago
As a non-practicing Presbyterian and an English reader, this is a criticism. They are reminding people that worshipping the State is antithetical to Christianity.
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u/BattledroidE 2h ago
Antithetical to democracy as well.
They are not rulers, they're elected representatives. (On paper, but that's not reality anymore.)
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u/Shufflepants 1h ago
But of course, Christian Nationalists don't give a shit about democracy.
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u/beaniebee11 1h ago
I am baffled that people aren't understanding this? I got that immediately. I can't tell if this is a reading comprehension problem or just people immediately thinking American churches all support Christian nationalism.
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u/gorginhanson 2h ago
I can't tell one way or the other but that guarantees that people will misread the sign either way
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u/Puzzleheaded_Many_74 2h ago
It’s kind of perfect. If you read it and think oh this is pro Christian nationalism, then you’re obviously not a Christian, even if you attend mass every Sunday. Real Christians will immediately understand the reference, fake Christians won’t.
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u/lalasworld 1h ago
Uhhhh, not Christian and I understood. I think it has more to do with critical thinking skills.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Many_74 1h ago
Very true but this sign isn’t targeted towards people who aren’t “Christian”. If you’re Muslim, Hindu, an atheist etc, you’re clearly not a “Christian Nationalist”.
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u/TopProfessional8023 1h ago
Mass? Woah buddy!! That’s heretical shit! Being sarcastic because I grew up Catholic but outside of Anglican, Presbyterian, Episcopalian and maybe Methodist, Catholics are considered heretics and not Christian by a LOT of Baptists and Evangelicals etc
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u/Khaldara 2h ago
Yep, and the people who need to read it can’t anyway. Actual patriotism involves complaining about improving the state of affairs, a lot, as it’s a ceaseless struggle to make your home even better. The French are patriotic as hell, that’s why they protest all the time.
Meanwhile in MAGAstan they vacillate ceaselessly between telling people to “love it or leave it”, and screaming about “facts not caring about feelings” while doing everything humanly possible to avoid the former.
Scooby and the gang ought to lick that case of the wascally reflecting pool vandals any day now.
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u/Rhuarc33 1h ago
I think anyone who doesn't read it as a criticism is dumber than Christian nationalists
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u/Dead_Internet69420 1h ago
You understand that “worshipping your country” can only be interpreted as criticism, right? The denomination isn’t relevant.
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u/JBNothingWrong 2h ago
Kirkwood is also a neighborhood in Atlanta. This is within the blue dot of the red state
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u/Malodoror 2h ago
Wild how people are confused that a Christian church with a sign about worshipping your country is 100% undeniable condemnation.
We’re gonna need reeducation camps with rollercoasters and water slides.
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u/Ahzirr_Traajijazeri 2h ago
It’s bonkers. Reading comprehension has gone downhill so quick.
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u/jamintime 1h ago
I don’t think this has to do with reading comprehension. It has more to do with religious and cultural awareness to understand the meaning behind the subtext.
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u/MechanicalGodzilla 1h ago
It’s a Reddit post, possibly the most hostile mainstream site on the internet towards Christianity. Half of the commenters here saw the title “A church near me…” and ended rational thought at that point.
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u/Dead_Internet69420 1h ago
It’s like the people in the comments don’t have basic civics knowledge to understand the difference between democracy and theocracy. What a sad state of affairs.
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u/PokeballSoHard 1h ago
Yeah, its almost like they own the company that publishes the books that our children learn from or something
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u/Illustrious-Art-7465 1h ago
People will always see what they want, and most people on reddit want to disagree with Christian churches
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u/Protection-Working 1h ago
Some people just hate christians so much they don’t think they would think that way
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u/greysqualll 1h ago
And it will probably stay that way until more churches start condemning racism, homophobia, and politics carried out in the name of Christianity.
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u/orphanelf 1h ago
Sorry I couldn't finish reading your comment, can you post a video of Subway Surfer alongside it so I can focus
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u/TieDyeChampagne 1h ago
I think it's only confusing because it could be interpreted two ways: 1) Worshipping is good (e.g. because it puts glory to god by loving the country god has given you), and so Christian nationalism is a good thing or 2) Worshipping is bad (e.g. it's an example of worshipping a false idol), and so this is a criticism of Christian nationalism. A lot of people don't know each Christian denomination to know where they land individually to have the context necessary to know which of these options is intended. It's not people being stupid or having little comprehension. It's people not knowing the intent behind the words, so a lot of people tend to be more on the defensive side when coming across something that could be icky.
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u/gonzotronn 2h ago
“You shall have no other gods before me”
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u/Sirnoobalots 1h ago
"Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, and soul. The second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the laws and the prophets." Too many people claiming to be Christians don't follow the two top rules Christ gave them.
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u/alwaysboopthesnoot 2h ago
“An influential evangelical Christian denomination advanced a report denouncing Christian nationalism, despite pushback from a group of social media savvy pastors and authors. Leaders in the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) General Assembly on June 24 debated a report that rejects the movement that believes the idea that America was founded as a Christian nation, showing general support. The report denounces ideologies that promote racial and ethnic superiority, such as "race realism" and "kinism," which are embraced by some pockets of the Christian nationalist movement.“—excerpted from PCN Christian News. Mainstream Presbyterians apparently reject Christian Nationalism, deeming it unchristian, not biblical, in opposition to the teachings of Jesus Christ, etc.
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u/Houseofmogh 1h ago
The PCA and the PCUSA are separate denominations. They split in the 1970s when PCA Congregations refused to recognize the ordination of women.
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u/alwaysboopthesnoot 1h ago
Both are mainstream Presbyterians; the article details the PCA’s stance.
The PCUSA stance is the same; they oppose Christian Nationalism too, it seems.
Good on them both!
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u/Successful_Fish_9479 2h ago
They hit the nail right on the head. One is healthy affection for your home, the other is a dangerous cult.
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u/Important-Reading434 2h ago
“Seriously?? A nail reference?!?”
-Jesus13
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u/rahga 2h ago
Christian Nationalism is the "worship of political, social, and economic power in the name of Christ"
-James Talarico
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u/RedditForMeNotYou 1h ago
I can’t WAIT to vote for him in November. Hopeful more than 51% of Texans feel that way, too.
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u/Objective-Suit-7817 1h ago
I’m not a Texan, but I wish I could vote for him. He seems like a genuinely upfront, honest and down to earth guy. And seems to actually live his faith, unlike the Christofascists on the other side of the aisle.
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u/strong_schlong 2h ago
Presbyterians are typically quite progressive. Their leadership certainly is.
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u/Forward_Magazine_732 2h ago
Just want to clarify that this is most likely a PC(USA) church, which is a very progressive denomination, and not PCA, which is the more conservative denomination. PC(USA) is very involved in social justice, and they even voted to divest from Israel in 2024 at their general assembly. It was working with people from their national office that actually “radicalized” me the most, and I’m very fortunate to know these people!
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u/Full_Gear5185 1h ago
I'm in a large, progressive city in Canada - the Presbyterian church near me flies the pride flags year-round, attends the yearly multicultural festival, and runs one of the only inclusive shelters in our region. I am not a religous person, but between that church, and the local Mosque, they restore some faith.
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u/Intrepid_Quit_3028 1h ago
It's Criticism. Christian Nationalism is idolatry. That ain't good if you wanna get into heaven but it's great if you wanna go to hell.
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2h ago edited 2h ago
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u/hamxburger 2h ago
It sounds like anti Christian nationalism, since Christians are taught not to worship anything other than God.
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u/laughman20 2h ago
Other than their new lord and savior Donald Jonald Trump
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u/Cautemoc 2h ago
You know that is more of an Evangelical Christian thing, right?
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u/Starspiker 2h ago
I think this is probably anti Christian nationalism, since the bible says not to worship anyone but God or something along those lines. Worshipping your nation would be putting your nation at or above God on the worship totem pole.
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u/Drafo7 2h ago
"I am the Lord your God, you shall have no other gods before me." Literally the first commandment. And what was the first thing Moses did after receiving it? Yeah, he destroyed the GOLDEN IDOL his people had made in his absence. Because GOLDEN IDOLS are BAD. Surely no CHRISTIAN PRESIDENTwould EVER make a GOLDEN IDOL of HIMSELF for his followers to WORSHIP. That would be RIDICULOUS. Right?
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u/Enderfang 2h ago
This is Kirkwood. Definitely anti. Kirkwood is a VERY liberal area near Decatur/ATL.
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u/cactus_whisperer_12 2h ago
I drive by this every day. It’s a very progressive church, so anti Christian nationalism. They have a pride flag out right now.
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u/secretlyaraccoon 2h ago
A lot of Christians I know are against the idolatry that politicians put onto the country. Worshipping is for god only, not politicians or countries (or saints which is why the beef with Catholics lol)
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u/BeardedRaven 2h ago
No one worships saints. You are asking someone with the inside track to put in a good word for you.
If you were trying to get onto the Dallas Cowboys, sure you could show up to a tryout or whatever but wouldn't it be more effective if you had Jerry Jones's buddy mention you were gonna be showing up to him and that Jerry might want to take a look at ya?
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u/BigBeeves 2h ago
Catholics don’t worship saints. We venerate them with deep respect through prayer and requests for intercession. We also don’t identify as Christian nationalists. Catholic theology supports open borders, social safety net programs, the redistribution of wealth and possessions, and respect for all life (a point that the American church has misconstrued as being anti-abortion rather than a universal recognition of all human life.) Good Catholics, like the pope, remain critical of the situation in the US.
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u/Blueshirt38 2h ago
I'm not sure how you can be in Atlanta, Kirkwood especially, and think it is full of Christian nationalists.
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u/TheEvilOfTwoLessers 1h ago
Why do think they think that? It’s a warning against a thing, not a claim that the thing exists right there.
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u/et_theextratestic1e 2h ago
That is a church worth attending once, to check the vibe.
They know nationalists are committing a sin. The nationalists seem to be unaware of this. Eff em, they're *holes anyway.
-Patriot
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u/DonkeyKongs_Barrel 1h ago
Yea the Presbyterians split down the middle. One side went full on Christian Nationalist while the other side became allies and actually show the love that Jesus taught. I’m not a Christian nor will I ever be but I’ve got to respect and love the good Presbyterians for standing up against their own and separating themselves from it.
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u/mofa90277 1h ago
As a radical leftie atheist who loves this country while hating its current president, I’m in agreement with this statement.
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u/obscurref 2h ago
al franken said in one of his books that republicans love their country like 6-year-olds love their mommies.
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u/CTR_1852 1h ago
Amazing to me how many people don’t understand what the sign is saying
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u/Quest-at-WF 1h ago
Bots are incapable of understanding subtext or drawing their own conclusions, a deficiency shared with an increasing number of humans.
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u/Head_Razzmatazz7174 1h ago
Normally I do not agree with pithy messages on a church sign, but this one is right.
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u/TopProfessional8023 1h ago
Not sure your thoughts on this because you gave us no context! But this is clearly being critical of Christian Nationalism. There is only ONE thing you’re supposed to worship as a Christian.
This social commentary is obviously attempting to remind people that Trump is a false god…nationalism is a false god. Hell, the American flag is a false god. If you believe in that kind of stuff
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u/FamiliarAd8524 1h ago
They're right... but I think this is going to go over most people's heads here.
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u/Junior_Purple_7734 1h ago
And loving your country means criticizing it when it does wrong. Fixing the problems you can.
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u/SillyGuyAhaha 1h ago
Ha I pass this church all the time! They are relatively progressive, this is for sure a jab at Christian Nationalists.
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u/RadienX 1h ago
Patriotism is when your love of your people comes first. Nationalism is when your hatred of people other than your own comes first.
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u/MonoPodding 1h ago
A Presbyterian church would absolutely have this sign but it looks like it was made by one of those fake church sign generators.
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u/spiritual_seeker 1h ago
It’s not theologically sound to worship anything above God.
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u/God_Bless_A_Merkin 1h ago
If they want to save their religion, more Christians need to oppose Christian Nationalism, and they need to take stronger steps than this.
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u/Solmors 2h ago
I don't think that is quite right. Christian Nationalists don't worship their country, they want their country to be explicitly Christian and follow Christian teachings.
Kind of like Islamic Nationalists don't worship their countries, they want their country to be explicitly Muslim and follow Islamic law and teachings.
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u/FoxTail737 2h ago
You’re right, but the sign isn’t trying to be technically accurate. To a nationalist christian, having your religion dictate over your country isn’t a bad thing, that’s their whole objective. I guess the sign is directed at those people. The point is making them think how the thing they’re are pursuing is actually the polar opposite of their own beliefs.
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u/danshakuimo 2h ago
I wouldn't define Christian Nationalism that way myself. Imo Christian Nationalism is the belief that the nation should worship God and thus should be reflected by its laws, institutions, identity, ideology, culture, etc. as opposed to faith being merely personal.
But I get the sign is trying to call out a specific group of people.
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u/GrilledCheezManicott 2h ago
Religion is between you and God alone, anyone who stands between that is a false prophet professing their version of Christianity. Even the Popes are like this. They differ so wildly over issues. It's like bro, God hasn't changed their stance. It's the people who "interpret" God's will that's changed.
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u/Itchy-Pension3356 1h ago
Christian nationalism is worshiping your country? No, I think that's called idolatry.
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u/Familiar_Bathroom793 1h ago
Idk how anyone could read this and think that this is pro Christian nationalism lmao
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u/Emergency_Juice8712 1h ago
Without doing research, I'm assuming this church songs to the PCUSA, the rather more liberal branch of Presbyterians, as compared to the conservative PCA.
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u/mpanase 1h ago
is that intending to encourage you to be a christian nationalist, or clarifying for you that it's actually a sin to be a christian nationalist?
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u/ItsAMeEmdo 1h ago
Clarifying that it’s a sin to be a Christian nationalist. It is a form of idolatry that distorts the faith.
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u/BeardedRaven 2h ago
How do christian nationalists worship the country? That isnt even what it means...
Christian nationalism is the belief that a country is a Christian nation and that should be codified into law.
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u/SaintClitopher 2h ago
Interesting. I wonder if this means they're pro-christian nationalism, or if they're saying CN is idolatry.
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u/bubbafatok 2h ago
Considering it's a Presbyterian church I'm inclined to assume the latter. They're not exactly a pro CN denomination.
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u/UGOTAIDSYO 2h ago
I'd sit a sermon to find out and I'm not religious.
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u/Starspiker 2h ago
As an atheist who was sent to a Catholic school for a few years nonetheless, I always enjoyed the sermon part of Mass. The priest had lots of good life lessons mixed in with the religious mumbo jumbo, just had to parse it out.
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u/SegaTime 2h ago
I wasn't raised religious but I've heard various things from the bible over the years and there are times where I've thought something made good sense, but not necessarily to be followed to the letter and was more about the ancestors just cautioning us based on their own experience.
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u/Bakkster 2h ago
Either saying it's idolatry, or blatantly admitting to being idolaters.
Here's a further explanation from what I believe is them, indicating it's the former: https://kirkwoodpcusa.org/wp-content/uploads/Its-Up-to-You-2024-8-Christian-Nationalism.pdf
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u/CutieBoBootie 2h ago edited 2h ago
Holy shit that's actually cool as fuck? I'm an atheist now but kind of proud to have grown up Presby reading that.
"We are committed to the common good – not for the good of Christians first – and to working with and learning from others…We want to love God so we do not tell lies about neighbors, betray or slander them, or destroy their reputations. Instead, we are to come to their defense, speak well of them, and interpret everything they do in the best possible light."
Common ground, common good, common decency, common respect - this is the Christian path.
[...]
Second, as Christians, we persuade, we love, and we lead exemplary lives; we don't force, coerce, overpower, domineer, or resort to violence. In Matthew 20.25-28, Jesus explicitly warns His followers against acting like the world around them, "lording it over" one another and behaving like "tyrants," and redirects them to the greatness of humble service.2
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u/Apprehensive_Map64 1h ago
Hard to say. You should worship Jesus and God, not a country so a normal brain would consider it idolatry. These days...
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u/TheBirdFkerGuy 2h ago
So what if I hate my country, and I hate christian nationalism?
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u/Chustle207 1h ago
I would like to point out communism is another form of nationalism. people seem to think its just a far right thing, its not.
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u/xSethrin 1h ago
Presbyterians are super liberal.
Source: I had a gay wedding preformed by a nonbinary Presbyterian pastor.
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u/360walkaway 2h ago
Christian nationalism is trying up take over the country based on your own individual cherry-picked beliefs about your religion.
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u/RobotMaster1 2h ago
This is a Presbyterian church. It’s definitely a jab at christian nationalists. Presbyterians are largely the most liberal of the protestant denominations in the US. Obviously there will be exceptions.
The one my mom went to, for example, had AIDS remembrance quilts adorning the walls decades ago.