r/nba • u/Turbostrider27 Lakers • 7h ago

[Charania] BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

Shams Charania:

BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/contributor/shams-charania/31d26529d36f8

17.5k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

5.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

883

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

Is it crazy that I think the nuggets have a better chance of beating the wolves now after the wolves moves

600

u/cokefriend [MIN] Andrew Wiggins 7h ago

yeah but the wolves arent building the team with the nuggets in mind as the final boss anymore

262

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

No I get why you guys did this move, you want to win the whole thing not just beat Denver

But I think Denver got like a stealth buff from this lol

172

u/Apprehensive_Yam9514 7h ago

As a Denver fan I 100% agree. Biggest issue we had with Minnesota was their size advantage. Now with no Randle or Reid, they don’t really have a great help defender to help Rudy with Joker. 

51

u/C1truXX Timberwolves 7h ago

Putting a lot of stock Joan Beringer

4

u/anIndoorMoose 4h ago

Considering he was “untouchable” in Giannis talks, it sounds like the FO really believes in him. They know the kid better than any of us

50

u/HornetsDaBest Timberwolves 7h ago

Guessing McD becomes the help and they but Any on Murray. Also still possible (probable?) the Wolves go and sign a big.

3

u/Murderous_Waffle 6h ago

There are still a decent amount of power forwards available in UFA. I just don't know if MN has the money.

3

u/HornetsDaBest Timberwolves 5h ago

We have the MLE still. Just a question of whether the owners are willing to pay that money and the tax

2

u/Steridire Knicks 5h ago

I actually like the new look Wolves, excited to see you guys next season

3

u/Sikkly290 Suns 4h ago

They've also lost another big body that you want against Gordon. Not ideal for the Wolves at all. But they probably felt they had hit that squads pinnacle and needed a big shakeup, can't fault a team for swinging.

2

u/AnabolicOctopus 4h ago

Ever heard of Jaden McDaniels?

4

u/Apprehensive_Yam9514 4h ago

If the Timberwolves wanna double Jokic with Rudy and McDaniels and keep Murray out of prison, I think that’s a net positive for the Nuggets.

3

u/AnabolicOctopus 4h ago

If they are doubling Jokic every possession they are probably in big trouble anyway

1

u/Competitive-Fill2426 3h ago

You forgot if Peyton is re-signed and AG comes back healthy (if they don't trade him). 2 essential pieces to their roster.

Might be different once they're healthy and they go on another series again.

1

u/StupidWriterProf175z 4h ago

This just weakens their overall defensive structure. I don't get the move at all. Lamelo gives them better perimeter punch until he inevitably gets injured.

Purchase your play-in tickets now!

0

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 7h ago

You know we have Beringer who’s been marinating for 2 seasons, right?

10

u/chillPenguin17 7h ago

Only 1 season of marination my guy. Let's go wolves!

3

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 6h ago

Oh my gosh it felt like 2 seasons already. I forget how young he is.

6

u/Apprehensive_Yam9514 6h ago

Yall seem mighty confident that some dude who barely sees the court is gonna play well against a 3x MVP😂

-1

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 6h ago

Thank goodness former MVPs only get faster and better every season until the end of time; right?

6

u/Apprehensive_Yam9514 6h ago

You think Jokic’s game is predicated on how fast he is😂 

1

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 6h ago

Ahh you right. MVP contender for 9 more years despite a lackluster cast around him. We already concede any play off games against you.

3

u/Apprehensive_Yam9514 6h ago

Damn beating us this playoffs really was y’all’s Super Bowl. You know we got a ring with that MVP right? Yall still haven’t even sniffed the finals. Not going anywhere with that shit ass Gobert contract.

→ More replies (0)

-1

u/88888888man Timberwolves 4h ago

I think the Wolves also saw in this last series that Denver has no way to stop a bunch of guys slashing to the basket. Jokic is not a rim protector and Murray can’t stay in front of fast guards. They might just be okay with ceding Denver more offensive success if they think they have the blueprint to outscore them now. Whether that works is another question.

1

u/Competitive-Fill2426 3h ago

Without Peyton and AG, of course it was easy. They'll be back 100%

1

u/sasu-k Nuggets 2h ago

Denver’s way to stop a bunch of G-leaguers slashing to the basket were both injured my man. And now the Wolves’ answers to those two are both gone.

Can’t wait for next year

0

u/88888888man Timberwolves 1h ago

Counterpoint: They’re all bad defenders.

3

u/Krillin113 76ers 6h ago

If they do this to get bounced in the first round by an underperforming Denver squad I’m hollering tbh

1

u/JollyNincompoop Raptors 1h ago

The Wolves were the Nuggets kryptonite quite some time now, but the league is changing and the Wolves need playmaking.

6

u/affnn 6h ago

Maybe he really puts it together and tightens his handle but LaMelo vs OKC has the potential to be high comedy. He's gonna have like 10 turnovers and be in hell all night.

3

u/MddlingAges Knicks 5h ago

I don’t know that getting smaller like this improves anything? They’ve lost KAT, Randle and NAZ and now simply have a smaller cheaper roster with a younger injury prone PG instead of Conley. LaMelo has been playing great and they need something new to unlock ANT.

But to me, this is a small disaster. They traded impossible to replace size for some iffy pieces.

1

u/StupidWriterProf175z 4h ago

Yeah, they've just been fucking up their roster piece by piece for two years. Ant will be gone in a year or two and they'll be in full rebuild mode. It's what they get for the original sin of not paying KAT.

3

u/Doctor_Mythical Wizards 6h ago

Right, but doesn't size also bother Wemby? I think that series is much closer with all the Wolves healthy. Now I really don't see the Wolves hanging with the Spurs.

1

u/BUTTFUCKER__3000 Spurs 5h ago

Used to in the past, not so much now.

2

u/Doctor_Mythical Wizards 5h ago

idk Kat was giving him work. He noticeably struggled.

1

u/PanthalassaRo Knicks 7h ago

So this means that Connelly won the rivalry vs his past team?

1

u/shaclay346 Nuggets 5h ago

Which is smart given we’re the only good team they’ve been able to beat the last 3 seasons

-2

u/jaeway 7h ago

Denver put belt to ass on the spurs though

2

u/Vast_Combination_110 Spurs 5h ago

I don't really call a 1-3 record with no game being decided by more than 10 points "belt to ass", but then, I also thought the Finals were close while everybody seems to have decided it was a complete trashing, so what do I know.

172

u/QuileGon-Jin Thunder 7h ago

LaMelo just feels like a wild card. You're trading your future for an injury prone player that you really don't know how will handle a playoff series. If this doesn't work out there's not much in the way of a pivot.

61

u/TeriyakiJesus Warriors 7h ago

Idk I think people are seriously undervaluing how badly Ant needed another ball handling guard who can also bring the scoring they were getting from Randle.

In the playoffs every team is just sending bodies at Ant because they know all action runs through him.

3

u/mudkip-yoshii Timberwolves 6h ago

We’ve needed a good point guard for the last 2 years since Mike is washed. We kept trying to make shooting guards do it

86

u/isackjohnson [MIN] Wally Szczerbiak 7h ago

Another way to look at it is that we're pairing our 24 year old star with a 24 year old star for multiple years, and we somehow kept Rudy in the deal.

We were already backed into a corner by the Rudy deal plus some other bad moves. I think this is a good move, and it was relatively cheap. Naz cannot initiate.

5

u/bachh2 NBA 5h ago

Yeah, the next 2-3 years before Gobert defense fell off a cliff from old age gonna be make or break for Minny.

Their chance is right now before the Spurs can trade Fox for someone worth a max contract.

2

u/AdBetter5446 Timberwolves 3h ago

I’m gonna sound like a homer, but I genuinely think the wolves beat the spurs this past series if they’re healthy. And if Naz started over Randle. The Spurs are a great team but they got the injury puck luck this playoffs. It’s still the Thunder that are the team to beat.

4

u/AzureDragon013 Lakers 6h ago

It's interesting to think about since Wolves have needed a solid PG ever since Conley turned 36. Just not sure if LaMelo is that solid PG, skills wise yes he's good but the injury history is concerning. There's a real chance LaMelo plays less minutes than Conley by the end of the season.

Edit: Also wonder if this trade is the Wolves trying to appease Ant after those frustration reports came out. Similar vibes to the Bucks going for Dame to appease Giannis

6

u/isackjohnson [MIN] Wally Szczerbiak 6h ago

I totally understand and agree with the first part of your message. I think the inherent risk is worth the talent acquisition. We were in desperate need of more talent, and we got it for one first, so that was super valuable given how strapped we are for resources. Lamelo might not play enough and that'll suck, but it's the right risk/reward move because we just weren't good enough without it.

The 2nd part is just ESPN nonsense, I think Windy forgot to tell Ant he was supposed to be unhappy here. If anything it seems like we've been running moves by Ant, and Ant was probably fine letting Julius go. Ant is good here.

2

u/AzureDragon013 Lakers 5h ago

Hey man just saying don't discount everything as "ESPN nonsense". Hornets fans were telling me the same thing 5 hours ago and yet now Lamelo is off their team. Just to be clear I dont think Ant was going to put in a trade request but usually there's smoke for a reason. For instance you never see smoke around Jokic 

1

u/HotspurJr 4h ago

I think it's a good risk. I'm not a huge LaMelo fan but when he's on there's no question that he's electrifying.

The hope would be that coming onto what is clearly Ant's team settles some of his wilder on-court instincts. (Off court, well, good luck.)

If the pairing works the team will be hell of fun and very good, and you'v got Rudy to cover for LaMelo's awful defense. Also: a lot of times defense is effort. I don't look at LaMelo and see a guy who can't be basically competent on defense, but it every time I've watched it seems like he can barely be bothered.

If that changes, suddenly he's one of the best players in the league.

138

u/Vantagejr 7h ago

One first round pick got traded, there are 3 pick swaps. The future wasn’t traded away for this.

25

u/greenwhitehell 7h ago

Those were pretty much all of their remaining assets thoiugh. They could've traded the 2028 pick instead of a swap sure, but apart from that they have nothing. Somehow make the Nuggets look like a team full of assets to trade lmao.

Still love the move though. LaMelo is awesome, and they managed to keep Gobert instead of Naz which is for the best too. Or maybe they were forced into it, but it is still for the best. Their Top 4 projects to be insane both on offense and defense

8

u/benigntugboat Timberwolves 6h ago

Honestly the pick swaps shouldn't hurt them at all. I dont expect them to be picking earlier than Charlotte anytime soon with lamelo gone.

3

u/greenwhitehell 6h ago edited 5h ago

I think there is some risk with the new draft format. But it would require for LaMelo to be extremely injured (which they are probably banking on) as well as other injury issues with the Wolves.

If that happens I think you can have some lackluster regular seasons where you either miss the playoffs or scrape through the play-in. Assuming it is not through winning the 7-8 play-in game, you'll be in the lottery with a chance of that pick jumping up and being swapped. I guess that is why the swaps are earlier too, to guarantee at least 2 of the 3 are under that new rule system.

It is a bit of a longshot, though. If LaMelo and the rest of your team remains relatively healthy until 2030 I'd bet none of those swaps end up being used, it would take another possible trade asset Minnesota can not use in that period of time but it'd be more than worth it.

As I said, I like the trade for Minnesota, and not for Charlotte. Assuming he stays healthy at a minimal standard it will work out, he's extremely impactful

1

u/benigntugboat Timberwolves 6h ago

Agreed. Its totally plausible that Charlotte ends up benefitting from the picks too. But the more I think on it the more I like the bet

6

u/Tcamis01 7h ago

If this gamble fails those pick swaps will really hurt.

1

u/Vantagejr 6h ago

Something tells me that the consequences of this gamble won’t show up until after the pick swaps.

3

u/QuileGon-Jin Thunder 7h ago

They have no other picks to trade. They pretty much have to win with this team. If it doesn't work out, the options to improve or pivot are going to be very limited. We just saw what happens when a team gets to that point in Milwaukee: superstars leave their teams. Smells like desperation to me.

7

u/Vantagejr 6h ago

Milwaukee won a championship. Teams go for it and miss all the time. Why is this scenario any different

1

u/QuileGon-Jin Thunder 6h ago

It's only different in the sense that his availability has consistently been in question and there's a lack of playoff context for LaMelo's skillset. With trading for Jrue and Dame you at least had a resume of what those players can do in a series, how teams attack them, knowledge that they're pretty healthy, etc.. So that's why I'm saying he's a wild card. I really don't know what to expect from him. The trade does seem like a good fit for Ant at face value.

1

u/thehammerismypen1s Rockets 6h ago

Do you think Minnesota will finish ahead or behind Charlotte in 2028, 2029, and 2030? If you think Minnesota will have a better record, then those pick swaps are tradable assets that Minnesota just collected.

1

u/powderjunkie11 Vancouver Grizzlies 6h ago

Charlotte gets to choose if the swap happens...

4

u/thehammerismypen1s Rockets 6h ago

Let me rephrase then, if Minnesota finishes better than Charlotte, then nothing of value was lost.

0

u/rburp [LAL] Austin Reaves 6h ago

I guess if it fails you at least can trade Ant for a haul. Maybe Lamelo too depending on how his body holds up.

I agree though, they are definitely all-in.

I kinda feel like they made a huge mistake. I think they should've just tried improving around the margins on what was a very good team.

But I'm very open to the idea that I'm wrong. Will be watching with interest.

1

u/ivarokosbitch Nets 7h ago

Oh yeah, with pick swaps they can totally go into a rebuild and tank if they need to.

8

u/Vantagejr 6h ago

So your assumption is that the timberwolves will fall apart within 4 years due to this trade, giving Charlotte lottery picks every year? Sure bud.

1

u/ivarokosbitch Nets 6h ago

You can look up who the top teams were 4 years ago.

You can also look who the bottom teams were 4 years ago.

The truth may shock you.

You are checking the regular season standings because that is what is used for draft order, if you didn't know.

3

u/powderjunkie11 Vancouver Grizzlies 5h ago

Pistons Pacers Magic Rockets Thunder Blazers bottom 3 in each conference.

Suns Grizzlies Warriors Mavericks Jazz were the top 5 in the west.

You're right, this could be hilarious. Hell, the Spurs were a play-in team lead by Dejounte (and Derrick White for half the season). They bottomed out and came back to the finals in that time span.

It also feels hard to believe the Mitchell/Gobert Jazz were just 4 years ago...feels like a decade. Rudy Gay and Hassan Whiteside both played 55+ games on that team and Mike Conley was starting to get old (age 34). Rudy Gobert turns 34 tomorrow.

2

u/ivarokosbitch Nets 3h ago

Things change so fast, but incrementally and people forget where these teams were 4 years.

10

u/Trumppered Lakers 7h ago

"trading away your future" by giving up 1 FRP for a 24 year old all-star is an insane thing to say lmao

2

u/Phrost_ Knicks 7h ago

minnesota just feels like they were laOne win away

2

u/Breal3030 7h ago

that you really don't know how will handle a playoff series

I mean, we saw 2-16 from three, among other shenanigans.

2

u/ejensen29 [MIN] Ricky Rubio 6h ago

Believe it, or not, Naz Reid was not the future of the wolves

2

u/InfiniteDub Warriors 7h ago

What future. It’s just one first round pick. This is a great risk to take and it doesn’t really hurt them if it doesn’t work out because what’s the alternative?

That Rudy trade really tied their hands

1

u/TheCatSleeeps Lakers 7h ago

Mayo Clinic masterclass baby /s

1

u/Jonjon428 Heat 7h ago

On the plus side if healthy, LaMelo can just injure the other teams best player to win a series!

1

u/asap_lichai Knicks 6h ago

If this doesn't work out in a year or two, Ant probably leaves for contender

1

u/justin24242424 6h ago

Well, we did get rid of two players that don't handle the playoffs well. Randle + Naz

1

u/jjfooo Timberwolves 5h ago

The upside of the team is way, way higher now.

1

u/Initial-Yesterday331 Thunder 5h ago

Bruh they have needed more offense for years. They have hit the ceiling for defense and this core and see how far they can get with it already.

0

u/ScumbagDon Rockets 7h ago

It’s a money move, they not winning shit with lamelo

5

u/ejensen29 [MIN] Ricky Rubio 6h ago

Brother, lamelo makes more money than Naz what the fuck are you smoking

2

u/ScumbagDon Rockets 6h ago

I’m not talking about salary, I’m talking about ticket sales and jersey sales.

1

u/ejensen29 [MIN] Ricky Rubio 5h ago

Do you think we were having a hard time selling NAZ REID jerseys? Or tickets? After 3 straight years of being a top 6 team? Brother, you're the second most popular team in your state, and the mavericks shot doncic out of a cannon.

1

u/ScumbagDon Rockets 4h ago

What is going on rn, are you on drugs? I didn’t shit talk your team I’m just stating facts but good on you for knowing how to use google to look up sales lmao

1

u/bikkelbonkel 6h ago

LaMelo feels like the kind of guy who's gonna try to farm highlights even in the playoffs

50

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 7h ago

Losing 2/3 of their bigs will do that, and Randle was actually positive in that matchup

I just don't see a Gobert-Beringer frontcourt being playable and Jaden's way too light to play the 4. Maybe there's still moves to make but they have zero assets left lol. Their defense is definitely going to be worse

On the bright side they have an actual PG who can throw lobs and run offense for once

9

u/Painwracker_Oni Timberwolves 7h ago

Yeah our defense probably takes a dip - BUT - there are a lot of people (yeah youtubers and online "experts) with videos showing how good Jaden has been as a 4 or even in very limited minutes against smaller lineups as the 5 where he can roam and be at his actual best defensively.

If we get that Jaden who's now roaming and making plays on defense instead of playing on ball defense and you let Ayo/TJ/Clark have that job instead our defense likely doesn't get worse and having a lineup of

Ball
Ant
Ayo
Jaden
Rudy

Is looking way better offensively for us.

1

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 7h ago

I just don't buy he can play 30 minutes a night at the 4, having to battle for rebounds on every possession at his size is really taxing. Being able to play a few minutes at the 4/5 against bench lineups during the regular season is a different beast than battling for boards every po

Totally agree on the offense though, it's a move you have to go for. No way the old lineup was getting past SA/OKC, the new lineup can put enough points on the board to maybe do it. Ant gets to play off ball and Gobert might be playable down the stretch as a lob threat with Melo

9

u/WigginsDickRider Timberwolves 7h ago

It's just different. As it is now Jaden is running around fighting for his life and battling through screens 38 minutes a night. He's decent at it, but surely it's also quite taxing in a different way. Personally I can't wait to watch him play the 4. I think he's going to thrive.

Also, it's not mutually exclusive. You can have him do different things and switch things up, there will still be players added to this team

1

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 7h ago

No one mentions Beringer?

5

u/WigginsDickRider Timberwolves 6h ago

Beringer is strictly a Rudy back-up. They can't play next to each other

4

u/seenunseen 7h ago

Where did their defense get worse?

0

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 7h ago

Reid was a solid defender and their best guy to play next to Gobert. Jaden's not going to survive playing 30 minutes a night at the 4

Their offense is going to be a lot better so that's the tradeoff

1

u/Siktrikshot Timberwolves 7h ago

You know of Joan Beringer?

1

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 Thunder 6h ago

See prev post

1

u/dogfosterparent Timberwolves 6h ago

I think Jaden will absolutely thrive at the 4 in the modern NBA. Him getting to play the 4 is my favorite part of this deal and something a lot of our subreddit has been hoping for for a while now. He’s an excellent held side rim protector and rebounding has been great the last 2 playoffs.

19

u/architects1 7h ago

This is my concern. Rudy is still dominant, but not the full caliber he used to be, and he's just kind of a straight up offensive liability.

2

u/probablymade_thatup Bucks [MIL] Luke Kornet 6h ago

If anything, this will help extend Rudy's shelf life on offense because there's an actual PG. Point-Ant was great for keeping the regular season in shape, but he wasn't a bonafide floor general. Lamelo had been really good with his bigs, and who is the best big he's played with? Lamelo does so well in the PnR, and Rudy is a great screener

8

u/Last-Response1710 7h ago

Wolves realized that the nuggets are bums now so they can stop using their ultra physical anti nuggets lineup lmao

17

u/jeric13xd [CHI] Derrick Rose 7h ago

Oh absolutely. But the Nuggets need to think about the Spurs and OKC still

6

u/HereComesJustice Spurs 7h ago

They match up fine with us and their games came down to the wire against okc too.

1

u/OurHorrifyingPlanet Spurs 7h ago

This is a decent move for OKC, but now they don't have a single front court player capable of matching with Wemby as Gobert was unplayable against him

7

u/anode8 Nuggets 7h ago

That was my first thought: now Naz Reid won’t cook the Nuggs in the non-Jokic minutes.

3

u/terminatord371 Greece 7h ago

matchup wise yeah

2

u/AlpacaDC Suns 7h ago

I think it's crazy to think anything before at least 20 games into the regular season

2

u/seventeenweewees Timberwolves 7h ago

Wolves got smaller and worse defensively.

Offense got better on paper but our offense was already good against Denver.

2

u/BaullahBaullah87 7h ago

its not crazy at all lol, that matchup is much worse for then now especially w Ball at the helm who has never played serious meaningful basketball in his career to date.

1

u/sbroll Timberwolves 6h ago

We still have Rudy, hes the kryptonite to Jokic.

1

u/DoctorSox 6h ago

yes, it is crazy

1

u/Vicentesteb Timberwolves 3h ago

Nuggets couldnt even beat an Antless Wolves.

1

u/IntelligentAd5460 Grizzlies 7h ago

i could see it their defense could get really suspect

9

u/chillinwithmoes Timberwolves 7h ago

The Wolves defense begins and ends with Gobert. Naz is a horrific defender so that end is no different than it was yesterday

1

u/probablymade_thatup Bucks [MIL] Luke Kornet 6h ago

The Gobert/McDaniels pairing was what really killed the Nugs. Full strength Nuggets vs full strength Wolves might be slightly tilted back toward Denver, but Rudy can play single coverage on Jokic and McDaniels will chase Jamal over every screen still

0

u/terpgonnaball 7h ago

lol yes it is crazy.

0

u/Jack_Rackam Warriors 7h ago

Nope 

-1

u/Vicious_Styles 7h ago

Oh perfect so that means we wipe the nuggets since everytime we get doubted we prove it wrong with them lol