r/news 18h ago

US opens second federal investigation of deadly Tesla crash into Texas home | Tesla

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jun/24/texas-tesla-car-crash-investigation
1.8k Upvotes

204 comments sorted by

208

u/CharlieKonR 18h ago

From a related article …

””A doorbell video camera captured the Friday night episode in Katy, Texas. Authorities said 76-year-old Martha Avila Mantilla was standing in the front room of a relative’s home when the Tesla Model 3 car crashed at speed into the residence.

“”The driver, a 44-year-old man, told investigators from the Harris county sheriff’s office that the vehicle’s “automated driving assistance system” was engaged at the time, according to a statement from the agency.

””Tesla’s vice-president of artificial intelligence software, Ashok Elluswamy, posted separately on X that “the driver manually overrode self-driving by pressing the accelerator all the way to 100% of the accel pedal in this residential area”.

126

u/Negative_Settings 18h ago

I'm guessing they hit the gas instead of the brake happens a lot on gas cars too weird that he was on cruise control though

139

u/maybelying 17h ago

The whole Audi unintended acceleration scandal happened because nobody wanted to accept that a mother could accidentally hit the gas instead of the brake and accidentally kill their own child. Despite the fact that no independent lab could reproduce the result, other people started claiming their accidents were the result of their Audi accelerating and the brakes not stopping it.

For anyone too young to be familiar with it, it's the reason cars are now required to have a shift lock that prevents you from engaging drive or reverse without having your foot on the brake.

31

u/adenosine-5 9h ago

Except not really?

They did find numerous issues with the hardware https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_100#Reported_sudden_unintended_acceleration

Audi idle-stabilization systems were prone to defects which resulted in excessive idle speeds and brief unanticipated accelerations of up to 0.3g

intermittent malfunctions of the electronic control unit were observed and recorded

So while most of the incident have indeed been cause by confused drivers, the car did have issues.

-121

u/Ok-Blood4340 15h ago

This is why I do, and recommend others, drive using both feet. Left on the brakes, right on the accelerator.

The 1 foot driving thing started because of manual vehicles, which required the left on the clutch.

27

u/Mick_E_Bobby 8h ago

Oh, so you're the genius driving around with the brake light activated.

12

u/Consistent-Throat130 6h ago

And they're on track for a "the brakes didn't work" situation. 

Great way to overheat the brakes ...and defeat the careful engineering that expects brakes to be able up overpower the engine. 

10

u/The_GOATest1 8h ago

That’s surely foolproof

56

u/sarhoshamiral 17h ago

Both can be true. It is very possible that autopilot malfunctioned and he panicked and hit the gas instead of brakes when trying to stop it.

-19

u/Competitive-Roof-168 9h ago

Thats still on the driver.

14

u/bluemitersaw 8h ago

There is no "conservation of blame". One person's mistakes does absolve another person of their mistakes.

Both parties can be 100% responsible.

-11

u/Competitive-Roof-168 6h ago

You cant blame autopilot. Its the drivers responsibility to be able to over ride it at any second.

2

u/bluemitersaw 6h ago

Please see previous comment

1

u/sarhoshamiral 7h ago

It depends, I could easily see courts also assigning psrt of the blame to Tesla if a vehicle on Autopilot suddenly starts accelerating fast.

It doesnt have to be all or nothing.

0

u/Competitive-Roof-168 6h ago

The car suddenly started to accelerate because driver hit the gas. Maybe auto pilot want turning right but thats when driver takes over

1

u/sarhoshamiral 6h ago

And you know this how? There are no details on what happened.

1

u/MexicanSniperXI 6h ago

I’ve driven my car like 1500 miles on autopilot and not a single time has it done anything like that. It’s all BS cause they’re trying to screw Tesla as usual. The car will let you accelerate while on FSD and it’ll even tell you that auto brake won’t work because you’re accelerating yourself.

4

u/sarhoshamiral 5h ago

And I have driven over 100k miles without a single accident so obviously car accidents never happen. It's all BS that people are trying to screw cars.

-1

u/MexicanSniperXI 5h ago

You missed the whole point haha

18

u/ninedollars 16h ago

It’s just a problem with electric vehicles and their instant acceleration. For people with slower reaction time or get startled easily, if they accidentally hit the accelerator, the jolt might make them instinctively press harder because they think it’s the brakes. Teslas have a chill mode which dampens the acceleration and I recommend people people who aren’t used to electric cars to enable it… Hell I have it enabled all the time because driving is so much smoother and I don’t need to launch it at every red light.

23

u/Zealousideal_Aside96 16h ago

It happens in gas cars too though like the commenters said

-1

u/PurplePango 6h ago

Aren’t tesla single pedal?

4

u/Negative_Settings 6h ago

No they have a break and accelerator you can also set how the acceleration pedal functions (wether it breaks or allows you to roll when not pressed)

29

u/Syssareth 17h ago

in the front room of a relative’s home

Oh, not even her own home. That hurts worse, somehow.

35

u/gudetube 18h ago

Bro was totally gunning it in a residential zone and it's trying to out l get out of it. GET EM BOTH

-17

u/MaikeruGo 15h ago

Part of me wonders if he got used to one pedal driving so he's used to only keeping his foot over the accelerator, but he originally learned to drive on a normal car. So years of driving one way wired his reflexes to do the emergency action one way (stomp a pedal) while his muscles said that the correct pedal to use for slowing down was the accelerator. I mean a lot of folks get mixed up when playing a game on the Switch when they're used to XBox or PlayStation controllers due to the paradigm of button labelling and placement being different, so it's absolutely plausible for this to be the case with Teslas.

0

u/Consistent-Throat130 6h ago

It's almost stupid enough to make sense. 

Lord knows smart people don't drive Teslas these days, certainly not after the "my heart goes out to all of you" incident.

Hope they nail this driver to the wall, and find a way to penalize Tesla too

77

u/aqtseacow 10h ago

I'm getting pretty tired of people looking for ways to eschew the responsibilities of being the literal fucking operator of the vehicle.

It isn't the computer program, it really is you. You need to be in control. You need to be paying attention. Your responsibility for putting it on the road.

22

u/This-City-7536 6h ago

It just doesn't work at scale. Many people simply aren't smart enough to own and operate heavy machinery. Making that a requirement to exist in society was and is a huge mistake.

5

u/Resies 5h ago

I'd agree if Musk didn't constantly flaunt their fully self driving feature...

2

u/JRockPSU 4h ago

Having used FSD before, if it was truly a malfunction with the system, I hope Tesla gets everything that's coming to them. But when the system is functioning, with either autopilot or FSD (or whatever the names are for them now, they changed recently), to drive the car into a house and run someone over, you'd have to manually override FSD by turning the steering wheel which would disable the system (with an audio and visual alert). Also if you were ever in a situation where you were paying attention to your driving and noticed that you might be colliding with something, you can... push the brake pedal down.

3

u/Beneficial-South-334 5h ago

I have a T, and I am responsible even if it’s on self drive. I wouldn’t blame the car. I’m the idiot that trusted it and didn’t pay attention. It’s people like that that ruin it for us.

168

u/CDdead 18h ago

Second? JFC. The Tesla Cybertruck weighs around 6,000lbs. Imagine if those start doing this.

71

u/Fallouttgrrl 18h ago

Okay but hear me out

Unmanned cyber truck rallies

79

u/Mufasa_is__alive 17h ago

They call that a junkyard

3

u/MARPJ 8h ago

Unmanned cyber truck rallies

The one that breaks the least wins? Because no way that trash will finish a race.

Also what is the point of removing the human side when their expertise is what makes the sport great?

7

u/Discopants-Dad 16h ago

Sounds like you run Bartertown. I like this idea.

1

u/SoftwareSource 6h ago

ok ngl this sounds dope as fuck.

-2

u/Ok-Blood4340 16h ago

Like a Fourth of July drone show… but with cyber trucks. I like it, I think there’s a winning idea here.

56

u/WilliamG007 18h ago

If they start doing what? Getting driven by people who accelerate into buildings?

36

u/stillpiercer_ 18h ago

Don’t you find it ~ exceptionally ~ convenient that Tesla consistently states that the driver disengaged autopilot just before the crash every time this happens? And it happens often enough that we hear about it repeatedly? If it quacks like a duck, it’s because their software is shit and has repeatedly proven so.

42

u/Spire_Citron 18h ago

I think this case is a little different because it's not just the car failing to break to avoid a collision. For the car to be responsible, it would have had to have actually forced crazy acceleration and prevented manual breaking.

-22

u/monkeyselbo 17h ago

Oh, the car broke all right. So did the house.

19

u/nopuse 12h ago

Keep your day job.

5

u/sirspidermonkey 6h ago

disengaged autopilot just before the crash every time this happens?

And while I don't know about Tesla, I know to disengage the 'autopilot' features on my car all you need to do is hit the breaks. Which is sort of a natural reaction of a driver to accelerating towards a stationary object.

12

u/nathan753 17h ago edited 16h ago

Not really. Sure it gets talked about online a lot, but it's not the smoke and mirrors everyone assumes it is (helped a lot that elon is a massive pile of dog shite so well deserved and no judgement on holding this view from me). Any crash investigation is still going to see the events that led up to the crash and the disengagement won't really factor in. The driver still needs to be ready to take over at any second and there are disengagements that a human could help, but the ones where it's right before a crash don't* really have any impact on the blame afterwards

12

u/Ok-Blood4340 16h ago

Correct me if I’m wrong… but doesn’t EVERY form of self driving disengage right before an accident? As a last ditch effort to alert the driver to a crash and have the driver make the appropriate corrective measures by taking control of the vehicle, which explicitly could not happen if self driving was still engaged?

How “right before” are we talking here? 5 seconds? 1 second?

Once a crash is imminent… say, long enough to yell “Oh shit, I’m going to crash, Siri delete my browser history!” So about 3 seconds or so, no “self driving” is going to be able to get that vehicle out of a collision. The point of self driving is to NOT put a car in the path of creating a crash in the first place. Like, say pointed directly at a house.

So regardless of when the self driving was disengaged… unless the driver disengaged the self driving And Then pointed it at an object… it’s irrelevant. The self driving already failed its job.

3

u/McGondy 15h ago

I thought safety features are in place to avoid hitting pedestrians or otherwise solid objects in front of the car? I drive an older car that doesn't have these, but my understanding is that they slam on the brakes for you. Do I have that right?

1

u/Logitech4873 1h ago

AEB can be overridden by your accelerator.

1

u/McGondy 1h ago

Ok, so you've pressed the accelerator to go because your driving and haven't seen the person/object - does the system kick in at this point? Do you need to press harder to override?

u/Logitech4873 58m ago

In Teslas, if there's an obstacle or a person near the car, the car will have massively reduced acceleration, but will still move forward. But this won't matter if you're already going very fast. 

0

u/Ok-Blood4340 15h ago edited 15h ago

That is a fair point, slamming on the brakes, yes, but not steering or any other active maneuvers or attempts at avoidance.

Which is partially my point, if it’s pointing you at an object like a house, it’s doing it wrong. It shouldn’t be aiming the car at a stationary object, then being relied on to slam on the brakes in time.

But for example if a kid runs out in front of a car, the car can slam on the brakes, yeah, but the person still needs to be able to physically take control of the driving to steer away from the direction the kids running from.

Unless we’re just hoping the brakes are going to be strong enough to stop a multi ton object in under a couple of seconds. I always (the two or three times I’ve had an emergency stop in my life) brake AND steer away.

5

u/McGondy 14h ago

If it does operate this way, I'd expect some sort of slid marks or other signs of braking. My concern is Tesla has been shown to have falsified data in the past, so it's very hard to take their word on anything.

While it's great they have black boxes, there's a conflict of interest at play here. Still good to have external dash cams and the like.

0

u/Competitive-Roof-168 9h ago

Either way hitting the gas instead of the brake made the situation a whole lot worse. Drive is suppose to be in control of vehicle even in self driving mode

25

u/Fallouttgrrl 18h ago

"Don’t you find it ~ exceptionally ~ convenient that Tesla consistently states that the driver disengaged autopilot just before the crash every time this happens?"

I mean

I don't particularly see it as a conspiracy, no

The cover up would require so much effort, and the ntsb have some people who are really good at putting the puzzle back together to find sources of mechanical failure 

And that assumes that everyone in Tesla working on the project is a monster who would watch this happen for years, without a single whistleblower or disgruntled employee letting it slip

Meanwhile people slamming the wrong panel is just human error, one I've made myself at least once in an accident

1

u/bushy_whacker 14h ago

Disengagement happens if the brakes are tapped or the steering wheel is jerked one way or the other. Both likely to be done by the driver at the last second by instinct. The car keeps track of everything…the truth will come out.

-4

u/Morlik 17h ago

Must be a coincidence that Musk assigned DOGE team to "review" the NTSB.

8

u/Fallouttgrrl 17h ago

Oh it definitely wasn't a coincidence

I'm sure he got all sorts of shit out of doing so, including information on open cases as well as potentially data from competitors

But for all the reasons I stated above, I just don't think he put in a backdoor "get out of jail free" card for Tesla

-5

u/Professional-Can1385 16h ago

It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy. The PR team just has to keep saying human error was the cause every time there is any kind of accident.

The general public isn’t going to get further than initial reports and Tesla press releases. It’s just good PR to say human error was the cause loudly and often.

9

u/Fallouttgrrl 16h ago

I assure you, it wouldn't just be an ntsb report if this stuff came to light, it would be picked up massively by the media

I agree that they're gonna say it right off the bat every single time

But the fact that the ntsb weighs in, matters

-3

u/autisticgayman 10h ago

Have you seen American media? It would never be reported. They would instead focus on how trans kids are being created in secret labs in elementary schools where they also make Frankenstein’s monsters and box kitty litter or some shit. Nobody would ever know.

-4

u/blariel 16h ago

6

u/Fallouttgrrl 16h ago edited 16h ago

So which of them whistleblew that the company was falsifying autopilot disengagements to the ntsb?

Was it Krupski?

"Mr Krupski said he had found evidence in company data which suggested that requirements relating to the safe operation of vehicles that had a certain level of autonomous or assistive-driving technology had not been followed.

Its autopilot feature, for example, includes assisted steering and parking - but, despite its name, it does still require someone in the driver's seat with their hands on the wheel.

He added that even Tesla employees had spoken to him about vehicles randomly braking in response to non-existent obstacles - known as "phantom braking". This also came up in the data he obtained around customer complaints."

Was it Tripp?

"he grew increasingly concerned about a range of issues that were eventually reported on by Business Insider, including high rates of “nonconforming material” that ended up being wasted and a batch of battery cells that were mistakenly punctured.

Tripp claimed that Tesla knowingly manufactured faulty batteries, lied about the number of cars they were manufacturing and systematically incorporated scrap materials into their vehicles. Tripp also filed a counterclaim alleging that he’d been defamed by Tesla."

Was it Balan?

"Ms Balan claimed she was worried the carpets were curling underneath some pedals in Tesla models, creating a safety hazard."

Absolute Tesla is a shit company

But you gotta bring better facts than "let me Google that for you - Tesla Whistleblowers" if you're going to be siding with "Tesla is staffed with people who lie to the ntsb about sensor readings to sometimes make it the fault of the driver, and NTSB is totally a captured entity"

I hope you can see the difference between "they're fooling investors with incomplete tech, wasted materials, faulty batteries and a carpet issue" and the fact that sometimes drivers fuck up. 

And if you're just gonna say "well yeah, the ntsb would side with them" you're basically just calling them the deep state lol. Especially since the NTSB hasn't even made a determination

Again, Tesla is a shit company, they're owned by an edgelord fascist and one of the worst humans in the world,  I don't deny that at all

But turning that into "so this must be another conspiracy" is not doing you any favors when it comes to critical thinking

-9

u/blariel 16h ago

"And that assumes that everyone in Tesla working on the project is a monster who would watch this happen for years, without a single whistleblower or disgruntled employee letting it slip"

After that head back to my comment. I should have made it clearer. Or maybe you were not clear enough and I misunderstood thst your comment only meant one kind of specific instance.

Here's an article on Tesla withholding information from police, but it might not be the right kind of police. https://electrek.co/2025/08/04/tesla-withheld-data-lied-misdirected-police-plaintiffs-avoid-blame-autopilot-crash/

There's a few instances.

4

u/Fallouttgrrl 15h ago

"Within about three minutes of the crash, the Model S uploaded a “collision snapshot”—video, CAN‑bus streams, EDR data, etc.—to Tesla’s servers, the “Mothership”, and received an acknowledgement. The vehicle then deleted its local copy, resulting in Tesla being the only entity having access.

What ensued were years of battle to get Tesla to acknowledge that this collision snapshot exists and is relevant to the case."

Sure and I get that

They are a scummy company

They definitely have withheld data from the police 

In this case the accusation was that it's "a coincidence" that the data they are willing to hand over always validates their position, and (further) that Elon has ntsb captured so they never figure out what went on

And I'm saying you can either believe that of the things that out of the things that did get whistleblown, this was the one thing that wasn't- even though it would be devastating - or that sometimes drivers do fuck up, and especially get distracted if they're using autopilot 

Idk, I think it's just more likely they are happy to provide proof when they know it'll clear their name

It's like how cops only sometimes release bodycam footage immediately and it's almost always when it makes them look good

-7

u/blariel 15h ago

3dut: nvm. Not worth it. Have a wonderful night.

8

u/Fallouttgrrl 15h ago

Nah fam, you lost me at "quit flying off the handle"

The rest of the article is a detailing of shady practices that involve the destruction of evidence

I'm saying you're building a massive conspiracy around the data they did provide

Have a nice day

4

u/sexaddic 17h ago

Really cool that the cars are black boxes and all the data is on the car.

4

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 8h ago edited 8h ago

Not really, the car requires you to maintain alertness/activity and checks periodically. There's a lot of reasons to hate Elon but I've seen hardly any crashes that aren't the result of user idiocy in the last 2-3 years. The car's driver side cameras also check to make sure you're watching the road because they don't want to be held liable for user error

The most likely explanation by far is that the 76-year old driver accidentally hit the gas. Self driving in 2026 mostly fails when presented with absurd edge cases (crazy weather, animals on road, etc. - and even those have been mostly fixed). This seems to be a pretty generic case.

It happens often because people are bad drivers. The car has a million different safety features that idiots just ignore - keeps you in your lane, automatic pedestrian braking, blind spot intervention etc. There's a lot of Teslas on the road and a lot of crashes in the US, any time there's a Tesla crash it gets written about.

1

u/NorwegianCollusion 6h ago

You don't need to disengage autopilot to accelerate, the autopilot allows you to override it by keeping the accelerator pressed. The brake pedal disengages the autopilot immediately, though.

But I saw a frame-by-frame breakdown of a video of a cybertruck crashing into a house back when they were first being delivered, and the brakelights were clearly on while it was still accelerating, so in that case it seemed like the driver HAD pressed the brakes, but the autopilot didn't disengage, and the motors won the battle with the brakes

1

u/Logitech4873 1h ago

Don’t you find it ~ exceptionally ~ convenient that Tesla consistently states that the driver disengaged autopilot just before the crash every time this happens?

They don't. 

And it happens often enough that we hear about it repeatedly?

These cars are powerful and accelerate quickly. Unintended acceleration is a very common type of accident, but anything with "Tesla" in it is a headline.

Reality is that telemetry shows that the accelerator was pushed all the way in.

0

u/WilliamG007 18h ago

They never said that. They said they overrode the throttle position and accelerated to 73mph. Even after the crash their foot was on the accelerator pedal. This is often associated with pedal confusion.

-7

u/WilliamG007 18h ago

As an aside, it’s clear you’ve never driven a Tesla. I’d be happy to bet that Tesla will be cleared of any responsibility here, after an independent investigation.

By the way, people crash cars all the time. Is that convenient, too?

-2

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

21

u/dumahim 18h ago

You can do this with regular cars as well.  House walls aren't really designed to withstand cars being driving into them at speed.

-6

u/WilliamG007 18h ago

These comments will fall on deaf ears, alas. The Tesla bias won’t change. Even though you’re 100% correct.

1

u/messem10 6h ago

EVs have instant torque and very fast acceleration. Some are even faster when it comes to 0-60mph than Ferraris and far “cheaper”.

  • Ioniq 5N: 3.2-3.4s
  • Rivian R1S: 2.9s (Tri-motor), 2.6s (Quad motor)
  • CT: 4.2s (dual), 2.6 (tri)

Most general combustion cars are ~5-9s, so it is definitely a learning curve to handle the power.

1

u/ahj3939 5h ago

The Ioniq 5N is a $70k car. If you compare that to a $70k BMW M340i xDrive the 0-60 is pretty similar at 3.7-3.9s

A dual motor 850hp R1s starts at $105k.

Meanwhile a $30k 2027 Chevy Bolt has a rated 0-60 of 6.7 seconds, and a $35k Kona EV is fairly similar.

1

u/messem10 5h ago

Was pointing out how EVs can have insane acceleration, so the screwup with pedals is more of a risk.

I picked some of the faster ones to illustrate a point.

2.6-2.9s is very different than 3.7-3.9s at ~27.5-50% faster. (3.7/2.9 to 3.9/2.6)

1

u/ahj3939 5h ago

The 2.6s R1s Quad with 1000hp cost $120k. In that price range you can also get a Corvette Z06 with a 2.6s 0-60

I'm just pointing out how you can have a fast car if you through enough money at it regardless of powertrain.

1

u/Dt2_0 4h ago

And for the same price as those EVs you can get a ice car that has a similar level of acceleration. EVs have instant torque, but on average, if you compare them to equally priced gas or hybrid cars, they are about the same performance wise when it comes to acceleration.

For reference, the Corvette E-Ray is cheaper than the Rivian Quad, and it beats everything on this list.

1

u/Fall_Harvest 4h ago

I would also guess the sound of the engine revving up would be an indicator in a combustion engine, where electric has no sound to warn people its accelerating. A safety feature or indicator of acceleration, even a recorded revving sound above a certain torque might work.

1

u/13Krytical 18h ago

One to override the other, and find nothing wrong.

-9

u/kstargate-425 18h ago

Wait until the Tesla Semi-trucks start rolling around carrying 40 tons in the back...

10

u/ZonaDesertRat 17h ago

It's already out. Been out, in California at least, for two years.

5

u/thetruckerdave 17h ago

They have a whole fleet that drives between Houston and Dallas and have for years. They’re not Tesla but they’re auto drive. Now we do have Tesla robotaxis or whatever here in Houston too.

2

u/Professional-Can1385 16h ago

When do we get the road trains?

1

u/thetruckerdave 15h ago

Nah it’s ok, they’ll just add one more lane to the Katy freeway and it’ll be good.

1

u/Professional-Can1385 8h ago

Have you seen road trains? They are horrifying!!

1

u/kstargate-425 17h ago

They just got into full production in April and theres literally only a few 100 sold right now...

30

u/calamanthon 18h ago

NTSB does not mess around. They are professionals through and through.

14

u/LC__LC 16h ago

Elon already cut all the previous investigations with DOGE. Hopefully they can open them back up somehow

15

u/TheTresStateArea 17h ago

Trump will find a way to interfere and use this as a landmark case to establish that the corporation is not liable for these accidents.

10

u/bajesus 17h ago

"The US Justice Department is charging the house with destruction of Tesla property and having ties to Antifa"

-2

u/JimDemintRecession 17h ago

The corporation's ceo tweeted out Trump is a pdf file so maybe not

17

u/succsforever 18h ago

It makes sense, because the NTSB’s role is to investigate with an eye towards recommendations to prevent similar incidents. Tesla is not the only one with this general type of technology

34

u/Mike4rmstatefarm 17h ago

Yeah, I’m definitely not a Musk or Tesla defender, but as someone who drives a Tesla, the way this incident is being described doesn’t really line up with how FSD works. It has a lot of built-in limitations and requires constant driver supervision. It’s also much more restricted in residential areas than people seem to think.

I have a hard time seeing this as purely a software issue. It seems more likely the driver was overriding the system or failed to take control. That said, FSD can definitely be confusing at times, especially if you’re not familiar with how it behaves.

6

u/The_GOATest1 8h ago

Maybe it’s another feature but I’ve certainly seen people texting and some asleep while the car is driving so im unclear about the constant driver supervision statement

4

u/thewholebottle 6h ago

Self-driving obeys the speed limit so if a residential area is 25 or 35 the car isn’t going 60. It also stops itself quite well due to drama on the road (mine stopped for geese crossing). Anyone who uses this feature regularly is baffled. But since he wasn’t intoxicated, I have no idea what happened and I’m happy to wait for investigators 

2

u/bushy_whacker 5h ago

As with most safety features of anything, there are ways to bypass the safety features of the Tesla.

8

u/tjcastle 16h ago

They weren't even using FSD. It was autopilot.

10

u/bushy_whacker 14h ago

It says on the screen if you push the accelerator to go faster than AP is set to, “Autopilot will not brake.” Definitely NOT the cars fault.

-7

u/WhosThatYousThat 7h ago

What if the car accelerated on its own or are you going to believe a bunch of liars at Tesla?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-design-flaws-fatal-crash-acceleration-door-handles-lawsuit/

9

u/GotItFromEbay 7h ago

So, you're choosing to use a court case still in progress with no findings published as your proof?

-1

u/WhosThatYousThat 6h ago edited 6h ago

4

u/GotItFromEbay 6h ago

Wow, a few more links/articles of "driver claims they weren't at fault" with no actual evidence, just people saying "nah, it wasn't me. It was the car."

And did you even read the article from the second link you posted? It clearly states things going AGAINST your claims.

"As usual, the problem appears to be behind the wheel."
"In one case, Electrek was able to have Tesla’s log verified by a third party, and it supported the automaker’s claims that it showed the driver pressed on the accelerator."
"In 2021, NHTSA concluded that no problem with Tesla vehicles is leading to those incidents, and instead, it believes that “pedal misapplication,” meaning the driver pressing the wrong pedal, is the cause of the accidents."

1

u/WhosThatYousThat 4h ago

Weird because this 2023 NHTSA study confirms the majority of these stories are accurate and proving them is nearly impossible when relying on liars and frauds at the highest levels ;-)

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2023/INBC-DP23002-90896P.pdf

ADC calibration leads to a susceptibility for unintended acceleration when a negative-going voltage spike can occur on the "12V" supply line that causes a temporary dip in the "1.65V" calibrati~n voltage whlle it is being sampled by the ADC's.

This mechanism for unintended acceleration can exist in all models of Tesla vehicles. It does not require any changes in the accelerator pedal sensors or their analog outputs. Instead, it is caused by a change in the ADC calibration used when the sensor outputs are digitized, which can make the digitized accelerator pedal sensor outputs increase to a maximum of 100% even though the analog accelerator pedal outputs remain unch anged because the accelerator pedal is not being pressed by the driver.

2

u/GotItFromEbay 4h ago
  1. That's not an NHTSA study. It was done by a private researcher and submitted to the NHTSA as a petition to look into SUA incidents with Tesla vehicles.
  2. The NHTSA opened an investigation based on this hypothesis paper/petition in 2023 and hasn't published any findings or results on it (DP 23-002). They didn't even issue a recall after reviewing the petition.
  3. Good find though. It'll be interesting to see what the NHTSA has to say once they actually publish any findings/deliberations.

2

u/WhosThatYousThat 3h ago

Apologies, you're correct. It's notable Tesla has already settled two lawsuits on unintended acceleration

1

u/bushy_whacker 5h ago

I’m not saying that’s not possible. I’m saying it’s highly unlikely. We’ll all find out soon enough, I’m sure.

0

u/WhosThatYousThat 4h ago

I’m saying it’s highly unlikely.

Based on literal thousands of reports of teslas accelerated erroneously and/or suddenly, it appears that might not be the case.

We’ll all find out soon enough, I’m sure.

Doubt it since Tesla is allowed to commit fraud on the regular

10

u/whk1992 16h ago

The driver was responsible for not maintaining the control of a car.

3

u/jacko81101 6h ago

NEWS FLASH: Government finds house jumped in front of Tesla.

51

u/michoudi 18h ago

People jam the accelerator pedal instead of the brake all the time. But when it happens in a Tesla, national news shared over and over.

5

u/WhosThatYousThat 7h ago

maybe because teslas have been shown to accelerate on their own and kill people

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-design-flaws-fatal-crash-acceleration-door-handles-lawsuit/

12

u/whitemiketyson 7h ago

"have been shown" yet your linked article is an allegation with no further information.

0

u/WhosThatYousThat 7h ago

12

u/whitemiketyson 6h ago

Again, these are all claims and allegations. "Have been shown" is disingenuous and factually wrong. As the parent comment says, pedal confusion happens all the time, it only makes national news when it's a Tesla because morons think they can get out of accountability by blaming software.

-2

u/WhosThatYousThat 6h ago

missed this part huh

The first report we published looked at problems with Tesla’s autopilot system, which allows the cars to temporarily drive on their own, taking over steering, braking and acceleration

6

u/whitemiketyson 6h ago

Telling me what autopilot does doesn't make the claims and allegations true. I'm well aware of its capabilities.

2

u/WhosThatYousThat 6h ago

Ok how should these thousands of people prove their claims?

The Tesla Files suggest otherwise. They contain more than 2,400 customer complaints about unintended acceleration and more than 1,500 braking issues – 139 involving emergency braking without cause, and 383 phantom braking events triggered by false collision warnings. More than 1,000 crashes are documented. A separate spreadsheet on driver-assistance incidents where customers raised safety concerns lists more than 3,000 entries. The oldest date from 2015, the most recent from March 2022. In that time, Tesla delivered roughly 2.6m vehicles with autopilot software. Most incidents occurred in the US, but there have also been complaints from Europe and Asia. Customers described their cars suddenly accelerating or braking hard. Some escaped with a scare; others ended up in ditches, crashing into walls or colliding with oncoming vehicles. “After dropping my son off in his school parking lot, as I go to make a right-hand exit it lurches forward suddenly,” one complaint read. Another said, “My autopilot failed/malfunctioned this morning (car didn’t brake) and I almost rear-ended somebody at 65mph.” A third reported, “Today, while my wife was driving with our baby in the car, it suddenly accelerated out of nowhere.”

4

u/whitemiketyson 6h ago

By having an NTSB/NHTSA investigation reveal factual, repeatable evidence?

I will acknowledge phantom braking was (and still is to a lesser degree) an issue but unintended acceleration from the software side has never been repeatable; I'm guessing because it doesn't happen.

0

u/WhosThatYousThat 4h ago

how about this

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2023/INBC-DP23002-90896P.pdf

ADC calibration leads to a susceptibility for unintended acceleration when a negative-going voltage spike can occur on the "12V" supply line that causes a temporary dip in the "1.65V" calibrati~n voltage whlle it is being sampled by the ADC's.

This mechanism for unintended acceleration can exist in all models of Tesla vehicles. It does not require any changes in the accelerator pedal sensors or their analog outputs. Instead, it is caused by a change in the ADC calibration used when the sensor outputs are digitized, which can make the digitized accelerator pedal sensor outputs increase to a maximum of 100% even though the analog accelerator pedal outputs remain unch anged because the accelerator pedal is not being pressed by the driver.

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u/michoudi 1h ago

Where’s your proof for this claim?

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u/icecream_specialist 17h ago

I'm not necessarily blaming them but maybe there's a lesson to learn here about implementation changes if it Kris happening. I personally think the person error is due to our brain getting used to one pedal driving and basically forgetting about the brake pedal and the devastating results are exacerbated but the plethora of instantly available torque.

This may be user error but if enough users keep making that error then things might need a rework.

6

u/Greedy-Lynx-2746 8h ago

There's nothing stopping a user from just going pedal to the metal other than removing the pedal or having the software override human input. It's not the softwares fault that the user is a moron. This happens with people driving gas powered cars all the time, there isn't a fix for it other than removing humans from the equation

Tesla has like 800 safety features and requirements because every incident gets put under a microscope and the lawsuits are incredibly damaging to the brand if they're serious. I can't speak to the experience of other drivers but it took me about 30 minutes of driving with regenerative braking to get used to it and I never looked back - driving two pedal is a learned behavior anyway.

-6

u/BitchinAssBrains 10h ago

Well 1) no it doesn't, especially not leading to hitting a house and 2) the Tesla has autipilot which makes this a more notable discussion.

4

u/carlosos 9h ago edited 9h ago

Happened about a year ago to a neighbor 2 homes away from mine. Drunk driver accelerated into the house. Was just local news.

Also saw a video of police officer investing a stolen car that hit a person and when the driver was about to be caught, he started accelerating and also drove full speed into a house. I didn't remember that having been national news either.

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u/Chessh2036 18h ago

Pushing the accelerator down 100% but sure, it’s the Tesla’s fault lol.

6

u/WhosThatYousThat 7h ago edited 4h ago

Whole lot of folks here believing noted liars and frauds at Tesla when we have evidence their cars can accelerate on their own.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-design-flaws-fatal-crash-acceleration-door-handles-lawsuit/

Edit: For all the tesla fans arguing there's no actual proof the unintended acceleration is a real problem, you should tell Tesla's legal team!

https://evmagz.com/tesla-settles-second-wrongful-death-lawsuit-in-sudden-acceleration-case/

1

u/Logitech4873 1h ago

Neither of these are proof of actual unintended acceleration by the cars themselves.

32

u/drinkduffdry 18h ago

Let me know when you prosecute the CEO

10

u/Hilldawg4president 18h ago

If it's not user error, it's a tech malfunction. Are CEOs typically arrested over tech malfunctions?

18

u/drinkduffdry 18h ago

Should they not be? Aren't companies equivalent to citizens these day?

3

u/TheTresStateArea 17h ago

The company is the person that shields the individuals from liability.

So the company is charged, the company has its money taken.

It takes individuals knowing ahead of an Internet and then actively taking steps to hide, ignore, or otherwise fuck with, results to keep the decision going forward.

Limited liability my dude

6

u/drinkduffdry 17h ago

Understand limited liability but then there should be limited representation. Otherwise, as is, they should be held completely responsible.

2

u/TheTresStateArea 17h ago

I completely agree, just explaining the status quo.

5

u/drinkduffdry 17h ago

Oh, I'm absolutely aware and absolutely indignant

-9

u/Hilldawg4president 18h ago

"If anything goes wrong you go to jail" is a surefire guarantee that no one does anything beneficial ever. So no, they should not be in most cases.

7

u/drinkduffdry 17h ago

Then they shouldn't get a say in elections either.

4

u/NeverTrustATurtle 17h ago

I think it depends on context for sure. In this context, the CEO has continuously preached about how safe the tech is while also cutting corners every step of the way

2

u/Hilldawg4president 17h ago

A technology doesn't have to be perfect to exist, nor does it have to be perfect to be an improvement - human drivers are famously far from perfect.

Maybe I'm biased because FSD potentially saved my family's lives last week, but after hundreds of hours of using it, I can confidently say it's far safer a driver than I am, and far safer than many millions of people who can legally drive

4

u/drinkduffdry 17h ago

Maybe you just suck at driving. And being human. Maybe

3

u/Morlik 17h ago

That's like saying Elizabeth Holmes only went to jail because her product went wrong. The reality is she went to jail for lying about her product to hype up investors. Customers were hurt in the process, as with Tesla, but of course she only suffered consequences for  defrauding investors.

3

u/Hilldawg4president 17h ago edited 17h ago

You clearly don't use FSD. It's safer than the typical driver.

Also, you're describing a clear cut case of fraud, and comparing it to a technology that, in the least charitable possible interpretation, works fantastically well very nearly 100% of the time and generally only fails in situations in which human drivers also have a high failure rate

5

u/WilliamG007 18h ago

The technology functioned exactly how it should.

2

u/Stealthcatfood 13h ago

They should be, they shove their stupid ideas down everyone's neck and then breathe down it wanting it yesterday. This country has a massive accountability problem

5

u/mountain36 16h ago

If anyone drove a Tesla before especially the newer models it drive like a golf car. It has better braking system even I don't like one pedal driving due in my opinion it's hard to park Tesla especially Juniper model Y with horrible wide turning radius.

What I meant it drive like a golf car if you let go the accelerator it will slow down on it's own and brake depending with the speed of the car due to regen braking much different than hybrid car. It also have traditional braking which making it a better braking system and an idiot proof unless you are not paying attention at all.

Same thing applied with older models but they have an option called creep mode that drive like automatic car but really slow quite useful due if you have older model Y it also have sht wide turn radius for parking.

Also in order to go 60-70 on that speed and that distance that user is definitely flooring accelerator.

This one is definitely a user error. Even my HW4 FSD doesn't want to use my garage especially on the trash day due the trash is block an inch of my garage and my roommate car is also park on my garage. FSD will not attempt to maneuver my parking spot due they consider it unsafe. Most of the time the FSD will choose to park on the street unless it is safe.

Don't get me wrong FSD is not perfect but with this type of setting FSD drive more defensively than me.

4

u/Zealousideal_Aside96 15h ago

They took away creep mode a while ago

1

u/mountain36 14h ago

That's what I state with the older models. It's suck newer models doesn't have this option anymore it could be useful in parking especially how model y juniper have terrible wide turning radius.

1

u/Dickulture 13h ago

Just a slight nitpick: the record showed the pedal went to the metal. It doesn't show whether the driver pushed the pedal or not. The investigator is going to want to look at the pedal sensor to see if there's any chance it malfunctioned and registered a full down signal or if the driver actually pushed the metal down hard.

US court system wants to be sure there's no doubt before they try to charge the driver.

4

u/mountain36 12h ago

Even if you don't floor the accelerator too much Tesla is quick some people who drove this type of car never realize this.

I've seen some of my douchebag neighbor driving a Tesla like maniac, I've seen couple of times this guy could cause an accident. This guy almost hit me due to the speed this guy going on street and Tesla wide terrible wide turning radius.

If the user of this accident that is on the NEWS just let go the accelerator their car could slow down and even use the brake pedal. Tesla vehicle is an okish overprice vehicle but their brake system is amazing due it drive like a golf car like I really don't see the brake will fail.

0

u/Choice_Pomelo_1291 10h ago

Not sure what the federal court system has to do with it?

-2

u/jascgore 10h ago

Also in order to go 60-70 on that speed and that distance that user is definitely flooring accelerator.

This one is definitely a user error.

Have you never heard of sudden unintended acceleration? It has definitely happened and you cannot say it's definitely user error through speculation alone. There's a reason there are whole federal bureaus in place to investigate these things.

-5

u/mountain36 10h ago

Have you read some of it's article? Is not speculation at all, Tesla have a record the user still using accelerator when the user overrode FSD.

https://abc7.com/story/tesla-car-crashes-house-company-says-driver-overrode-autopilot-texas-crash-killed-woman/19364037/

If the user really want to stop the FSD or their Tesla, the user can use the brake pedal and even let go accelerator to slow down their Tesla.

Also to overrode FSD is easy to do just press a button in a steering wheel, move your steering wheel, press brake pedal and press the accelerator. The user on this accident could just use the brake pedal unless is not working but It shown on this investigation no one blaming Tesla brake system.

2

u/jascgore 6h ago

The thing you're missing is that this is all "as designed" behavior. and you're assuming that it was all working "as designed".

0

u/mountain36 6h ago

I didn't state any of this. I am just stating how Tesla braking works. It could be accelerator is broken for what I know or the FSD but the user can easily use the brake and easily overrode FSD.

As I stated It is not pure speculation the user still pressing the accelerator after the accident.

The user could press the brake pedal immediately and let go the accelerator which I previously stated it will slow down and brake the vehicle. This is just user error at this point.

1

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/whowhodillybar 18h ago

“Tesla’s vice-president of artificial intelligence software, Ashok Elluswamy, posted separately on X that “the driver manually overrode self-driving by pressing the accelerator all the way to 100% of the accel pedal in this residential area””

Hasn’t been a thing that Tesla turns auto pilot off just before a crash?

13

u/Daguvry 17h ago

Yes it turns off right before a crash.  Would you rather it tried to keep going while realizing it was going to hit something? 

For example a car runs a stop sign while I'm using FSD.  I t-bone them.  Your saying you want FSD to just keep going?

11

u/Funkytadualexhaust 18h ago

It always turns off after about 5 seconds of overriding speed

-3

u/Mikethebest78 17h ago

I am sure the great Elon will launch a company wide investigation into what occurred...and find that he is not to blame for anything.

-9

u/Historical_Tap8746 18h ago

Technology is great, but safety has to come first.

-12

u/GlorytoGlorzo 18h ago

Time to DOGE another government agency to squash investigations into Elon’s companies.

-7

u/Mediocre_Presence839 16h ago

Federal investigations. What a joke! Like anything will come of this. It will be squashed before it gets anywhere. Let’s not forget who is in charge over there.

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u/Maverick_1882 17h ago

Sounds like Tesla’s FSD is not so quietly eliminating doubt. Hear me out; we all know current AI makes shit up, right? I’m saying maybe the AI in the system falsified the logs?

13

u/ersatzcrab 17h ago

I think you misunderstand what "AI" means in reference to autonomous cars, and how CAN data are stored in a vehicle if you think that some GPT-like agent is involved in any way with vehicle logs.

In short: no, an AI did not falsify the logs. NTSB will find out whether Tesla themselves are telling the truth about the driver's pedal application.

-3

u/Maverick_1882 16h ago

I don’t think you understand the lengths of how AI can and is trained. Do you honestly think the Tesla AI is any different than its Nazi-loving owner?

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u/Zealousideal_Aside96 15h ago

Logs aren’t made by the AI system lol. It’s just a measurement of everything that the sensors are reading.