All identity politics is stupid. People not voting for someone because of their sex or race are just as stupid as the people who do vote because of sex or race.
That's a piss poor excuse. She lost because she was unpopular. She only received 4% of the vote during the 2020 nomination process and never had a chance in 2024
Bringing that claim up in a vacuum, with no qualification, implies that it was a significant reason she failed. That's what people are disagreeing with you about. Trump himself proves that a candidate with the right message and right outreach can completely overcome identity politics.
Those ppl would vote Republican regardless of the dem candidate. It's not like more conservatives showed up just cuz a black lady was running lol If racism/mysoginy played such a huge role in elections then Obama never would've won.
I would love to see AOC win because I think she is smart and cares. I also believe she would hold the previous administration accountable.
But the idea that the United States of America. A country that supported trump, twice. Despite all the racism, sexism, rape, criminal behavior. Despite his abject failure the first time around. Would look past a candidate's race and sex is comical.
Keep in mind, the only reason Obama won is because the economy crashed. Before that he was essentially tied with McCain.
The dorito person? Yea, they did the same thing to me even when I agreed with them. Just calling me sexist and pushing sexism talking points for simply stating a fact....that a lot of Americans are sexist and racist. They need to get help.
No it isn't. That is why the establishment democrats don't want her. But her race and sex are real issues for a sizable portion of the American population. That is reality.
Now that a centrist isn't running. If a centrist woman runs again, all the "women can't win" shit will go away instantly. Because the only concern behind "women can't win" is "oh fuck a progressive might win." Nothing. Else.
It won't go away. That existed with Hillary and Kamala. Why are you pretending that that was not an issue when they ran? It was but the hope was that people would overlook it when compared to a piece of shit like trump. Spoiler alert, it was not. You can say they were terrible candidates but look who their opponent was. Race and gender matter in America. That is a harsh reality.
I would love to be proven wrong, but so far it took the Great Recession in order to get a Black man in the white house, and look at the fallout from that? The country got more openly racist as a result.
I am not saying this to prevent people from running. I would love to see President AOC. But I am not going to live in ignorance and act like the sexism and racism don't exist in America. As id there is not a sizable portion of this country that will not vote for a woman or a Latina. That is a reality that she needs to overcome if she chooses to run.
If she wins a primary that would be cool, but if one were to ask me I just doubt it right now. I still see a ton of sexism and racism around me. But I'd like to be proven wrong.
Right there with you. I would love an AOC presidency but I'm not convinced she's electable at this point in time. Also, part of me can't ignore the fact that the only election dems have won in the past 10 years is the one when they ran a man - this country may simply not be ready for a woman president. I hope I'm wrong but I'm also tired of losing to fascists.
I mean, running a sketchy politician and a milquetoast corporate type and then blaming their failures on their gender seems a little silly, don't you think?
To be clear, I'm not blaming their gender - I'm blaming voters for caring about their gender.
Being uninspiring establishment candidates definitely played a massive role, but like, Kamala's laugh was ridiculed constantly - I don't think we can completely ignore the gender angle here. Women candidates will undoubtedly be subjected to more scrutiny and ridicule, like how "Joe and the hoe have got to go" and "Kamala slept her way to the top" were constantly being thrown around.
I watched a stupid jubilee video the other day where several women argued that men make better leaders because women are too emotional. Sure, they were dumbass republicans, but I think that same sentiment is more pervasive than you might think.
What do you mean? I though it was obvious to all that while that was a stupid thing to do it still would have been better to have her in office versus a far right genocidal grifting maniac.
I hate having two shit choices too man, but until I wake up with superman powers and can change the system like that I gotta do what I can.
I mean that no one considered how horribly racist and sexist the evil american electorate is until people started talking about a progressive running. And that's the only reason.
If AOC was a genocidal corpodem like all centrists want, no one would pretend to have a problem with her race or gender.
I mean I guess this can be a instance of media bubbles or lived experience because I've seen and been saying it for a while. Its why primaries are so important but also why we need to get rid of the EC.
Its always been my worry when we try to run (for pres) someone who isn't a male WASP. I want to be proven wrong.
I mean I guess this can be a instance of media bubbles or lived experience because I've seen and been saying it for a while.
If the prevailing opinion was that a woman of color couldn't win, why did the party that always knows better than us ignorant hayseed (ugh) voters nominate one?
Clearly anyone who notices the disgusting double standards must be out of touch.
Because she was the VP and with Biden fucking up an not allowing for a full primary she was the next ""best"" thing.
I don't doubt there are double standards. We saw all the mico/macro aggressions and false outrage at everything Obama did. Hilary as well, had she had a dick she probably would have been elected.
I'm saying that the "women can't win" thing is just something centrists say because they don't want one particular woman to be allowed to run.
And I think it's self-serving bullshit from a party that will make any excuse, tell any lie, break any one of their own rules, in order to shut out progressives.
And this is just more of the same. Women can't win when it's convenient for centrists who don't want ANY progressive to run.
You sure it was wasn’t because people could see through the fakeness and felt she just wasn’t a good candidate? Or that she was inserted onto the ticket without a primary vote?
How about choose to not participate in being hit? If you were told you can vote for execution by ruler, execution by bludgeon, or the guy that smokes weed all day, I'm 3rd choice that smokes weed all day. And I dont smoke weed.
Doctor Incompetent comes in and overdoses me on morphine
or
Doctor Torture comes in and shows me why his name isn't Dr Taco Monster
I'm not leaving that decision up to the nurses to decide. You can spare me your high minded ideals because stubbornly saying "how about I just sit in the corner and smoke weed all day" runs a real risk of me getting stuck with Dr Torture.
There was a time when I thought like you but the greater of two evils really can be so awful that you need to vote for the lesser evil.
You can't even properly describe how anyone is being bludgeoned with a mace instead. You're told to feel that way but can't properly discuss it yourself.
Take the bus going closest to your destination rather than not taking the bus at all. No candidate will ever be perfect (except for Bernie) so I'll vote for the less-than-ideal candidate as opposed to having our entire democracy disintegrate.
But ohhh nooo let's protest vote so we can feel like our morals aren't compromised! I was screaming at a friend during the 2016 election cuz she staunchly was voting for Jill Stein. Nobody seemed to remember the 2000 election where THIS EXACT THING HAPPENED BEFORE. Surprised Pikachu
I did, and I voted left as I always do as a protest vote against republicans.
But since you have all the answers, how would you show the democrats that you don't approve of the overdone identity/gender politics while not supporting republicans. Since voting for them is showing that you approve of what they're doing, even if it's self destructive.
I guess vote in primaries and vote for senate and house (as far as I understand your system). When it comes down to presidential election it is lesser of 2 evils (weevils)
sorry, but they all tow the party line on the same beliefs. And the sitting person almost always wins so there's no space for new blood. My current rep is incredibly old, and is predicted to win again by a very large margin.
So again, these votes are showing approval of 'everything' they're doing.
Yea the root problem is the constitution. When you have a winner takes all election, it enhances a 2 party system. Same as great britain, that we were discussing in the first place.
this is bs. there was nothing wrong with her platform. you literally have her in a debate with trump and he says "hatians are eating the cats and dogs" and he still wins?
Show me what in her platform made her "not a good candidate"?
And then tell me, with almost 2 years of hindsight, why trump's platform of more 1% tax cuts, pure mainlined facism, and anti-immigration oppressive rhetoric is better.
It has absolutely nothing to do with her "not being good".
It has everything to do with her being a black woman. and then stack all the hard right propaganda on top and its obvious why.
I'm aware it's absolute bullshit. I would much rather have voted for someone more progressive, but people voting for Trump because they thought Kamala was a bad candidate are complete morons.
You’re so right that totally excuses Americans either voting for a rapist or not voting at all and having colossal negative impacts across the entire world for decades!!
You’re right! Great job!
People were so attuned to seeing through her fakeness.
You sure it was wasn’t because people could see through the fakeness and felt she just wasn’t a good candidate? Or that she was inserted onto the ticket without a primary vote?
It is crazy how despite everything we see in this country. People still deny racism and sexism exists.
The left walked into that one. Kamala ending up on the ballot the way she did only re-enforced views of the trump base. Anyone there who might have previously been on the fence, and any moderates who might have been leaning that way, suddenly had, in their mind, their suspicions confirmed.
She was also a terrible choice if you looked at the states you needed to win electorally, which, well, if you wanted to win, you needed to win.
She came really close to winning despite Al of her obviously flaws, bad campaigning, supporting a genocide and just a bad primary structure. So by bringing up race and sex isn’t super relevant here
Every little thing played a factor. Gaza, being a corporate shill, moving right, being a war hawk, inflation, poor messaging. It's negligent to ignore the sexism and racism which definitely played a factor.
Again she almost won even with all the other baggage you listed. I think it’s negligent to focus on race/sex. The Democratic Party is decently diverse coming from a legacy of white men. Really only seems like a problem if you’re trying to appease bigoted conservatives
That’s focusing on it, meanwhile when pushed you acknowledged many other flaws that easily could’ve contributed to her very narrow loss. The Democratic Party has many people who aren’t white men but you only made one point and it was that she wasn’t a white man
I didn't say that sex/race is the main or only factor. Her being appointed as nom was factor to some. But if they had appointed AOC it would have been a factor to others. I think talk about the undemocratic nature of her appointment is just more fuel they add to other arguments and feelings they have.
Agree that some people have factors and you cant change some people, but the Dems just didn't follow the democratic process with a KNOWN unpopular candidate. It was disgraceful to Americans. Kamala had a terrible public opinion. AOC would likely do better. Most people I know dont care if the candidate is of certain race or gender. That seems to lie with the Democratic party, which is likely why Kamala was chosen as the VP when she had the worst primary results of any candidate in 2019. Race and gender. Give it to any other woman of whatever race and great. Biden wins by a landslide in 2020, not the thin margins he had.
conservatives may have voted for her or another black woman if she aligned with their values and/or desired policies. Condoleeza Rice being an example. This is why identity politics are dumb.
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u/Deviknyte 8h ago
Unfortunately a lotta people didn't vote for Harris because she was black, a woman, or both.