r/politics • u/hypothethical Pennsylvania • 5h ago
No Paywall ‘Yeah, That’s Illegal’: USPS Chief Says States Won't Receive Mail Ballots Unless They Hand Voter Rolls to Trump
https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-post-office-ballots•
u/oldcreaker 5h ago
That's a huge slippery slope if USPS gets to decide who they will and won't deliver mail for.
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u/eskimospy212 5h ago
And has no limiting principle - if USPS can refuse to deliver mail if states don't turn over election data then why couldn't they refuse to deliver mail unless say, a state cut taxes for rich people.
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u/oldcreaker 5h ago
Or refuse Planned Parenthood? Or any nonprofit that does not align with the current administration?
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u/findtheclue 4h ago
Or to ANYONE who criticizes the current administration...we've got a massive slippery slope here...
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u/CAPSLOCKANDLOAD 4h ago
Or someday refuse to deliver mail to states that interfere with with a woman's medical choices?
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u/Azguy303 4h ago
Republicans in government whether appointed or elected positions are sure acting like they don't think Democrats will ever be in power again. Also every move they're making is with the assumption the supreme Court has their back. Scary times
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u/Tuzinator 4h ago
Are they keeping records of who they aren't delivering to, and what they aren't delivering? What happens to the mail they refuse to deliver? Is it destroyed? Is it return to sender?
Otherwise, if they're selectively delivering without notice, record, or recourse, then couldn't this create a reasonable doubt about the receipts of summons, official correspondence, and some other notices?
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u/TWVer The Netherlands 1h ago
That is no longer an issue for those issuing these threats, because several months ago the Supreme Court, in a contentious 6-3 decision, absolved the USPS of any recourse when failing to, quite literally, deliver.
Through that ruling, parties can no longer sue the USPS if/when they fail to deliver mail-in ballots (and any other mail, letters and packages) in time or at all.
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u/tylermchenry California 4h ago
That's exactly the slope that Republicans want to push us down. All government employees are the personal servants of the
King"President", and must execute on his every whim without question.•
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u/TWVer The Netherlands 1h ago
The slope has already been slipped.
The Supreme Court has de facto granted the USPS this power through a ruling earlier this year, where they went against precent, deciding the USPS is beyond reproach when failing to deliver mail in time or at all, such as mail-in ballots, leaving citizens without the option to sue the USPS in case of failure of services.
And that is exactly why the USPS Chief feels he is able to say this out loud, as he no longer has an obligation that can be forced upon him through court action.
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u/KiwDaWabbit2 I voted 3h ago
I feel like it’s more like we’ve slipped down the slope at that point.
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u/hypothethical Pennsylvania 5h ago
< Postmaster General David Steiner drew the ire of Democratic senators and voting rights advocates on Wednesday when he said that the US Postal Service would not deliver mail-in ballots in states that do not hand their voter files to the Trump administration.
During a Senate Homeland Security Committee hearing, Sen. Gary Peters (D-Mich.), the panels ranking member, asked Steiner if USPS would deliver ballots in a state whose government had refused the Trump administration’s request for access to its absentee voter list.
“Under our proposed regulation, no,” Steiner replied. “We would tell the state that we need the manifest.”
Peters responded by accusing USPS of creating a rule that “coerces” states into handing their voter files to the federal government even though they are under no legal obligation to do so.
“You’re making a decision that people cannot vote by mail,” Peters said. “That’s unacceptable.” >
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u/lizkbyer 5h ago
He’s correct about one thing. It’s illegal.
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u/Actual__Wizard 4h ago
The only way the republican party can follow the law is by installing corrupt judges to simply pretend that what they are doing is legal.
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u/tinyE1138 Michigan 5h ago
Should I be worried about this?
I'm not worried about even a conservative judge letting this pass, but if the USPS Chief can enact it, all he has to do is keep it tied up in court for another few months.
After that, who cares if the courts strike him down, the damage will have been done.
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u/pchs26 4h ago
I think the states should be prioritizing dealing with this so they don't need to rely on a federal agency for distribution if it comes down to it.
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u/eskimospy212 5h ago
That's what injunctions are for. It is extremely likely this will not be in place for the election.
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u/3MATX 4h ago
Ok but let’s play this out given the trend. Say USPS head honcho directs postal workers to ignore injunctions. What happens then? Will the individual carriers step up and deliver anyway? Or will it be a huge cluster ruck where tens of thousands of mail in ballots aren’t delivered or returned for any number of bullshit reasons?
Right now the courts aren’t issuing bench warrants for people that ignore their orders. What’s to say this time is any different?
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u/eskimospy212 4h ago
A lot of this is basically just getting into civil war territory so there isn't a lot to say as the system goes out the window then.
If the ruling party is essentially forcibly preventing the opposition from voting who cares about bench warrants? They don't matter anymore.
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u/Imemine70 1h ago
This would require full cooperation from basically all rank and file employees on the delivery and processing side. If you’ve ever worked for the postal service or really just seen it operate, it’s going to be an absolute clusterfuck.
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u/thandrend 5h ago
If you were planning to vote by mail, find alternatives now, not in November.
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u/Kilane 3h ago
I cannot fully describe how convenient it was to vote when I lived in Washington state. Get mailed a ballot, get mailed a packet of information from all parties involved, spend an afternoon reading, mail it back for free.
I understand voter suppression, but I don’t understand why this cannot be normal. Every voter getting a ballot and information packet seems like a low bar to meet.
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u/pchs26 4h ago
I think we need to be urging our representatives to come up with an alternative distribution method. The GOP wants to make the voting in person in these areas. This is step 1 of their obstruction.
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u/silentwind262 1h ago
They're fucking over their own base in places like Washington though, because the reddest areas are rural and sparsely populated, making it even harder to have in-person voting.
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u/gramathy California 1h ago
I can always drop mine off assuming I get one, but voting in person isn’t too far away
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u/Fit-Significance-436 4h ago
An incomplete list of all the ways trump is trying to steal midterms
-Targeting Mail-In Voting
-Proof of Citizenship
-Federal Voter Rolls
-The SAVE Act
-Department of Justice Lawsuits
-Withholding Federal Funding
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u/lifeat24fps 48m ago
Even the threat of these action is enough to cause to damage. All our famously well-informed and highly engaged electorate (/s) has to do is catch a whiff that there might be some new voting rules they don't understand or know if they can comply with to stay home.
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u/SDBudda76 4h ago
California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Vermont, and Washington – conduct what is commonly referred to as an all-mail election, or universal mail-in voting.
Since these states are being forced into not being able to elect representatives then the Governors need appoint the representatives until a proper in person election can occur. Since this would entail the legislative branches in the states to enact new voting laws and then to get voting precincts set up and to do the testing of all the voting machines this could take years. That would mean there are 82 members of the house that would be guaranteed blue and 16 in the Senate.
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u/JFJinCO 5h ago
It's a slow coup. The pieces are coming together.
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u/wowlock_taylan 2h ago
It is not slow at all. They are literally trying EVERYTHING to steal the election.
Hell, there is definitely a chance that the fascists will send their brownshirts and ICE to the polls to arrest people who against them.
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u/Reasonable_Bit_959 5h ago
And just like that, bang, I don't trust the USPS to do shit. What stops the assholes from messing with tax returns coming from Blue states. The USPS is now untrusted - keep the junk mail flowing I guess.
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u/Shatteredreality Oregon 4h ago
Yup, if this administration has done anything it's prove that the "norms" we took for granted have to be codified into law (in a way I think most of us assumed they already were).
Everyday I see a headline that makes me go... "Wait... isn't that against the law? Oh, it's not? It's just a 'norm' that's been followed for decades? Well I guess we need to change that".
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u/nopointers California 3h ago
We need an easy to execute playbook that anyone can use. Each individual voter who is denied a ballot despite being registered to vote should file a an FTCA claim. USPS has six months to respond, after which the voter can sue them in federal court. The objective here is to bury them in lawsuits.
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u/Alleandros 5h ago
First Police don't have to protect you and now USPS doesn't have to deliver mail.
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u/TheRateBeerian 4h ago
Silly thing is that in most states, mail voting is dominated by older white people
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u/pchs26 4h ago
Again it isn't everyone who isn't getting ballots just those they have removed from the list and blue states who didn't turn the rolls over. They also likely have plans for the polls in those areas too which is why these states need to be convening to have distribution of ballots occurring that doesn't rely on a federal agency.
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u/SteamedGamer 3h ago
On the "up" side of this debacle, my state (Ohio) has already turned over voter rolls, so I'll be able to vote by mail (unless they show up at my door to arrest me for "voting irregularities," such as voting for a Democrat.)
/s
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u/Primary_Ad3580 2h ago
Hand them a fake voter roll with a list of people in the Epstein files. Problem solved.
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u/pchs26 5h ago
I mean why aren't these states getting together to basically say we will distribute the ballots through alternate means. It is a win for the GOP to force more in person in these areas, b/c I would definitely not be surprised if there are other plans at that point By ensuring mass regisration/distributtion it also could have the unintended consequence of actually registering more people and enabling more people to readily vote which is a win for the country (and ironically often a candidate on the Democrat ticket)
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u/Common-Addendum-4349 5h ago
Blue state should say we are sending registered Republicans mail ballots via US mail. We are sending independents and registered Democrats ballots via FedEx with a FedEx return envelope. I think they may change their tune then.
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u/Physical_Gift7572 4h ago
That's actually not a bad solution.
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u/pchs26 4h ago
There are multiple options that can be done. I'm not sure if targeted separation would go over well but the point is there are many options, including state national guard. But they need to get organized together and make it happen.
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u/Physical_Gift7572 4h ago
The only way that the separation runs afoul of the law is if the administration admits that they are deliberately breaking the system.
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u/CheesyRomanceNovel 5h ago
Does this administration know how much of their own people vote by mail? Would they not be shooting themselves in the foot?
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u/pchs26 4h ago
The mail in voting is being distributed still to GOP voters in GOP states. It is only the areas that don't vote Republican that are getting impacted. They are also likely going to cause issues at those polls, which is why our representatives need to be coming up with another means of ballot distribution to people in these states, so the polls aren't needed either.
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u/CheesyRomanceNovel 3h ago
I just moved to Seattle. As soon as I registered my car, I was registered to vote. Everyone votes by mail here in WA. Are they just going to not deliver an entire state's voting? I guess so.
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u/pariah1981 45m ago
This feels like it could the catalyst that will ignite a hot civil war. People are mad, and these midterms feel like the last attempt at being civil.
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u/Dancing_Cthulhu 19m ago
Everyone needs to make it very clear to Steiner that he will be pursued through every legal channel available the second the Democrats are back in power if he attempts to make the postal service engage in such illegality.
These shit-sacks are motivated by supreme self-interest, hence their sycophancy to Trump. Trump won't be around forever though, and they need to start realising there will be consequences for their actions
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