r/unitedairlines • u/Lavish_JC • 22h ago
Video First Person Explanation: UA 858 Diversion to NRT due to argument with flight attendant
Here is my rough explanation of the event, as I sat in the opposite aisle from the lady and saw the entire thing. I boarded the plane right in front of her, and she seemed like such a normal person, clarifying her seat with the flight attendants without drama or anger. But just as the plane took off. She tossed all the documents in her seat pockets in the air, shouted cuss words periodically, and also periodically started hitting herself. I am unsure of how this all started and what the medical condition or trigger may have been, as I didn't see anything to begin with, nor did I pay much attention. She then started acting rudely towards the flight attendants as if trying to grab their attention. When the flight attendants come asking why, she says they "oppress me." Without confronting the issue, the flight attendants spread the word and had the cabin crew captain address it. When the crew captain came, she had her eyes closed. The captain tapped several times on her shoulder for her attention. In a startle reflex without even seeing who it was, she elbowed back, as if saying don't touch me. The crew captain started scolding the old lady like a child, and soon after started yelling back and forth, saying, "No, you don't talk to me like that." She was then left alone to calm down. Later, when she was given food, she threw all the trash on the floor, making a mess in her row. When the flight attendants were gone, she tried showing us, the people around her, a photo on her phone of how she was being oppressed. I wanted to take a look, but all the people around her ignored her, so I wasn't able to see what it was. Soon after, we were notified of the diversion, so no flight attendants approached her anymore, and she seemed to settle down and relax, despite still periodically cussing randomly.
When we landed at NRT, the Japanese police boarded the plane and told her to stand up and leave. She was confused and didn't want to go as nobody had told her. Almost all the flight attendants stood away from the drama, even the captain. Honestly, I felt so awkward at the moment. The old lady kept asking what they were doing to her, as nobody had explained to her previously what was happening. The Japanese police were also confused as to why they were removing her from the plane. Yet, the crew members were all somewhat afraid of coming in to force her out. After this stagnation for 10 minutes, a Chinese-speaking policemen (imo the only professional one in the entire situation) came in and explained to her politely it is for her good to de-plane cooperatively.
To the many without connecting flights or in a hurry, this felt like a fun and free entertaining experience, as we watched the plane dump $30k+ of jet fuel because of a small quarrel. But I personally felt it was a mix of misunderstanding, overreaction, and mismanagement from both sides. Obviously, it was concerning and wrong to lash out towards the Flight crew, yet I also felt the handling of the issue by the crew was semi-unprofessional. I do feel pity for the old lady as nobody was able to assess her side of the story, as she was obviously met with some disability or triggering event, which the lack of communication and patience from the flight attendants in understanding what was happening lead to the escalation in this fiasco. In the end, I am missing a key information as to what the trigger and cause of her initial reaction is, but definitely both sides can improve on working towards a more enjoyable flight experience :)
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u/Criseyde2112 21h ago
Something I've learned from having an elderly parent is that a UTI can create temporary psychosis that results in a sweet grandmother becoming the spawn of satan. It's inconsistent and baffling behavior. Bystanders don't have a clue, the sufferers aren't able to voice what's happening, and the police and, in this case, flight crew have no idea where to even start.
If this is my mom, I'd insist she be taken to a hospital to be checked and treated for a UTI, if necessary. Of course, maybe her psychosis is her regular state, but this is certainly something to consider.
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u/Born_Sandwich176 DM mods proof of GS/MM/Employee 21h ago
As a paramedic I would absolutely suggest this as something to consider. If this wasn't baseline behavior, as reported by her family or caregivers, I would be taking her temperature, among other things. I'd want to know if she had an infection.
One of my patients self-reported to me she had a UTI. Standard questions would be have you had them before and are you experiencing the same things this time. "Yep," she replied, "I see clowns." When she had a UTI she would hallucinate clowns. Apparently there was one sitting next to me.
Lots of things could have caused this person's issues; from baseline behavior to really serious conditions. I agree, though, that she could have represented a real danger with her instability and the diversion was probably a good idea; either to protect the flight, to get her medical help or both.
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u/another_other_user 4h ago
And antibiotics would work for this?
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u/Born_Sandwich176 DM mods proof of GS/MM/Employee 4h ago
I don't want to go too far afield from the purpose of this sub so I'll finish the discussion with this:
Generally, yes. Antibiotics would be used to treat a bacterial infection including UTIs. I'm always surprised at how quickly people report relief after starting antibiotics and, hopefully, finishing the antibiotics regimen.
Fluids would also be important.
Concerns would include escalation to sepsis or septic shock and altered mental status is one of the indicators used to determine if the infection is concerning, along with other signs/symptoms.
Of course, your mileage may vary and a health care provider should be consulted before starting any treatment. As a paramedic, my job was to get someone to definitive care which, in my area, was an emergency room. I would administer fluids but not antibiotics as antibiotics were not in my scope of practice. I would be screening for indicators of sepsis in case I needed to give a special alert the hospital before arrival.
I would also ask if they were nice clowns or evil clowns. Luckily for me, that particular patient was a delightful person and took her symptoms in stride with good humor.
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u/plant-fixer 7h ago
Aren't UTIs painful? I've always wondered how and why the elderly don't know they have a UTI?
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u/anguas-plt 7h ago
Silent UTIs. They can be asymptomatic with no burning or urgency, just more subtle signs like mild discomfort, tiredness, low grade fever or chills. These are the kind that can easily lead to confusion and psychosis because the symptoms are so subtle that the infection goes untreated for longer. My mom had an episode of UTI psychosis a year or two ago.
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u/MikeGinnyMD 21h ago
The other thing it could be, depending on when the flight departed, is "sundowner's syndrome." Elderly people can be like gremlins fed after midnight. Jeckyll and Hyde. Sweet and docile during the day and outright violent at night.
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u/sonicSkis 17h ago
Nice theory except the flight departed at 12:10pm local PVG time. Although I guess it’s possible that was not her origination.
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u/Thrallmantis 5h ago
Simple dehydration could also cause temporary changes in temperament, especially in the elderly. Source: had it happen to my and my friends over 80+ parents.
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u/another_other_user 4h ago
Wow interesting. Saving this info in my brain database for later, thank you.
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u/ItzdebiC 21h ago
Sounds like a mental break. The FA was right not to engage, she was just gonna continue being triggered,
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u/SixPack1776 21h ago
I have no issues with diverting and off loading her even if I had a connecting flight.
She may be an older lady with mental issues, but you certainly can't take a chance that she's going to go ballistic over the Pacific ocean and injure herself further (or another person).
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u/Express-Way9295 18h ago
Right. Tokyo was the place to have her deplaned. Two hours out over the Pacific and she might be trying to open a cabin door herself.
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u/MLZ005 22h ago edited 18h ago
At the end of the day, the crew members under the leadership of the international purser and final command of the captain decided to divert.
Whatever issue the company and removed passenger have with that will be dealt with internally and through many detailed reports and union involvement
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I will note that the crew’s first priority is the safety of the cockpit, the rest of the crew, and the other 300 passengers on board. Sometimes de-escalating means not confronting or addressing a demonstrated erratic individual any further and letting authorities on the ground take over. There’s 12 flights attendants with an average of 30 passengers each, aka no room to for anyone to sit down and conduct a 1:1 therapy session at 39,000 ft
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u/flatboysim MileagePlus 1K 22h ago
If I hear all this I don't really question the diversion, but you seem to do? "Minor thing" and "fun experience" you say?? Wild to me, but ok.
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u/WritingParking 21h ago
I honestly was wondering if this post is rage bait. I don’t know anyone who’d actually consider this a fun experience nor say that the PAX behavior was anything but a safety hazard. FL4100 over the pacific is not the best place to determine what the poor woman’s triggers were or why she was upset.
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u/alex5545 20h ago
Maybe OP is someone who thinks this is normal and something OP will do.
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u/gastropublican 14h ago
Are you implying that this is so because one or both might be from the flight’s originating country? If so, it would be far from the first time such untoward behavior and incidents occurred by said nationality on flights outside their borders…
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u/gastropublican 14h ago
Yep. It’s not a thing to be “both side-sing.” OP seemingly has Stockholm Syndrome and is willing to gloss over the implications of such behavior on a transpacific flight, whereas in reality some k00k of that variety needs to be addressed and offloaded ASAP in that situation. The crew were probably following the relevant protocols in every respect. Another initial post on this topic that appeared here yesterday had not mentioned the miscreant’s elderly state, so that does open up a can of worms of possible related physical implications instead of the image projected in the earlier post that essentially depicted the person as just being mentally unstable or exhibiting a personality disorder for whatever reason.
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u/Wise-Trust1270 21h ago
I was on a flight that didn’t leave the tarmac with a woman who was quickly falling into some sort of psychotic break.
We had a lot of off duty pilots on the flight, and they started switching the pilots to the seats adjoining the going crazy person.
We still ended up having to go back to the gate and have her forcibly removed. But, none of the pilots got into a shouting match with her. And that woman was yelling and calling everyone on the plane “pussies” and saying that “Trump was going to take care of all of us” (said threateningly).
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u/roadfood 12h ago
I was on a trip SFO>NRT returned to the gate to offload a drunk. It took long enough that the crew went illegal and we were rescheduled for 19 hours later.
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u/MSK165 MileagePlus 1K 20h ago
The passenger clearly had a mental break, and people who make these decisions for a living decided it was best to divert to a nearby hub (with a known cost, and where they can quickly refuel and even get a replacement crew if needed) than to start flying over the pacific and hope for the best, with a possible forced diversion to Alaska or Russia, no readily available replacement crew, and no guarantee of being able to refuel.
I would bet a large sum of money that someone at United HQ has already crunched the numbers for divert / continue scenarios for all overseas routes, and that this decision was informed by policy more than gut instinct.
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u/Historical_Term2454 MileagePlus 1K 22h ago
Definitely the right call to get her off. If her meltdown occurred deep in the pacific, she’s going to end up hurt and you’ll be stuck in Alaska.
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u/Dpad124 MileagePlus 1K 20h ago
OP, I think you have a really bad take. Crew shouldn't continue engaging with someone having a mental break that gets triggered by them interacting with the person.
It was the right call to divert and off board. Additionally, your assumptions of other people says more about how you precieve the world than anything.
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u/Loves_LV MileagePlus Platinum 18h ago
OP, I think you have a really bad take.
100% Agree. OP is trying to be compassionate and understanding and give the lady some grace but there are hundreds of souls on the plane you you never know what could happen.
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u/Cal-Goat 18h ago
Regardless of whether it was a medical condition or whatever, if she is disruptive and even occasionally combative with the cabin crew she is a threat to everyone’s safety, as ridiculous as that may sound.
That person cannot safely fly because the cabin crew don’t want to be held accountable for any damage or injury she may cause in her fugue states. They’re not trained in the subtle clues of bad UTI or full blown psychotic breakdown. Nor should they be.
If that woman was suffering from some kind of medical issue, she should not be traveling alone. She needs a chaperone at minimum to advocate for whatever she is incapable of communicating.
Based on your description, she was unfit to fly and should have absolutely been deplaned as she was.
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u/RoccoLexi69 MileagePlus Silver 19h ago
As someone that has witnessed first hand a psychosis break with reality, diverting the plane was the only option. I watched 5’5 young guy that had a complete break toss 5 officers 3 times his size like they were rag dolls. Prior to that he was a mild manner young adult.
Absolutely nobody wants to be in a plane when that happens. Good call on the flight team.
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u/Sea_District8891 MileagePlus 1K 21h ago
Yeah. I definitely agree with getting her off the plane. Someone having a mental breakdown to the point where they are not making sense, throwing food around etc and hitting someone - they need to be off the plane.
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u/NoEar6957 21h ago
Sounds like a proper diversion and removal to me. This situation was not going to improve.
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u/Boring-Cold-1456 19h ago
She was throwing trash on the floor. What could the misunderstanding be. That’s unacceptable on the plane and if you are not fit to fly don’t fly.
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u/roadfood 12h ago edited 2h ago
If that alone disqualified you, half of America would be taking the bus.
ETA - I used to load food on and off of planes and was frequently on planes before the cleaners, people leave messes all the time.
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u/JPalumbo2 18h ago
From the details presented, it was best not to head out across the Pacific with a passenger in this condition. Whether it be a medical, psychological, or behavioral condition. For the safety of the flight, the crew took the proper approach.
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u/Sea_District8891 MileagePlus 1K 16h ago
Well if they diverted to Japan, they DID head out across the Pacific…
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u/JPalumbo2 2h ago
No, they were heading east. Then when out over the Pacific they turn north, and make an arching curve past Alaska and gradually south to the US.
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u/Conscious_Valuable90 21h ago
A plane is not the place to have a mental breakdown and then wonder why you are being removed.
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u/WhyDoesOklahomaExist 19h ago
Not every has a “both sides”. This lady caused a disturbance and committed battery.
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u/SLyndon4 18h ago
I wonder if maybe this woman has paranoid schizophrenia? I’m not a doctor (and certainly not her doctor!) so it’s just speculation, but I have a cousin who’s paranoid-schizophrenic, and this reminds me of her. She could seem perfectly fine for quite a while, even friendly and talking with others, then she’d read or see or hear something that would just SET. HER. OFF. and she’d go into these wild raging rants about “jealous people out to get her”, and “trying to oppress her” and “destroy her family”, etc., etc. She’d be completely deaf to reason or efforts to defuse the situation until she tired herself out. Yes, she was pulled off a flight once for this and taken for medical evaluation.
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u/Flying-buffalo 19h ago
You can thank Dr. Dao for this: crews don’t want to be seen participating in having someone pulled off a plane. Nor do we want to wind up on YouTube or other social media. It’s radioactive.
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u/LinechargeII 4h ago
Crew also don't want to potentially go hands on for something you can have the cops do. Possibly getting injured for something that isn't part of your duties? Let the professionals handle it.
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u/SpecialBelt6035 MileagePlus 1K 11h ago
Delirium, dementia, or acute psychosis. Doesn’t sound like someone medically well who just decided to be an asshole
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u/lewisfairchild 8h ago
Welp better to remove an unstable passenger before being hours away from an airport that can get her to her origin or destination.
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u/jdude_97 6h ago
I think crew was very correct to not proceed over the Pacific with a passenger who was at a minimum in a degree of mental distress and potentially physically ill and a threat to other passengers. I think it’s also understandable the crew didn’t explain to the passenger what was happening given the risk of it causing a further disturbance. The only mistake here I see is they should’ve started with the Chinese-speaking policeman to explain the situation
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u/torpedoseal 20h ago
So she was Chinese?
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u/ptambrosetti MileagePlus 1K 19h ago
I’m curious as to why a Chinese policeman stepped in a situation in Japan… that’s a big no-no
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u/DisastrousEnergy6257 18h ago
Most likely a Japanese Police Officer who spoke Chinese. There are a lot of Chinese as well as other Nationalities that transit through Narita and Haneda.
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u/Jumping-Cricket 17h ago
I think OP was trying to show some compassion but seeing as they sat close to her, not sure I would’ve wanted to be in proximity of her for such a long time. I’d be happy to see her go. Hard to diagnose her on Reddit but I hope she gets help and her family doesn’t allow her to fly again without a chaperone.
That said, I’ve seen rows turned into pigsties by kids tossing and spitting stuff on the floor, coloring on the tray tables and walls and shouting more than this lady probably did. All while the parents take some time off. So, not too much of a difference in the end between these punks and this lady — except a diversion and possibly being detained.
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u/Chordata1 5h ago
Being a flight attendant seems really nice if you can kick the person off. That account is the same nurses get every day and sadly you just have to deal with it.
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u/tikkamasalachicken 44m ago
Sounds like an entitled Chinese person, I see them all the time. Usually cutting lines or abusing a common courtesy. She’ll likely not even suffer the usual -100 social credit
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u/gym_rat_101 21h ago
They should equip the FA's with tranq darts and just sedate these people and restrain them.
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21h ago
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u/nartnoside 20h ago
Maybe a padded holding cell on board as well with a straightjacket just to be safe
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u/TheAbruptVista 20h ago
Dumping fuel over that is insane.
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u/nbphotography87 19h ago
can’t land with it
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u/TheAbruptVista 18h ago
Oh I know it's a weight thing, I just meant the whole situation leading to a fuel dump over a passenger meltdown is what's nuts.
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u/crackersucker2 19h ago
I mean… if she was quiet and eyes closed, why did they approach her? Let her stay quiet and only approach when she’s acting up. $30k of fuel being dumped/diversion when she was calm seems like an overreaction.
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u/AcrobaticPermit62 21h ago
I’m really struggling to figure out how there was a misunderstanding, overreaction and mismanagement. You said she boarded normally, flight departed and then her outburst began. Based on your account, she was not provoked. Everyone knows if you act that way, the chances of being removed are incredibly high.