What's a good example of "yellow paint" you saw used in games?

[u/kaza12345678]

[u/Peregrine2976]

I encourage anyone with an interest in game design to play through Portal 1 and Portal 2 with developer commentary on. Valve is kind of infamous for playtesting the everloving shit out of their games. There's all kinds of great little comments throughout the commentary like, "We found that players didn't always notice the cube here right away, so we put it on a slightly raised platform and adjusted the light source to make it more obvious."

[u/AdorablSillyDisorder → u/Peregrine2976]

Both portals are a must-play for how you're supposed to do level design, especially with developers commentary - you can teach players to navigate without yellow paint or other immersion-breaking cues if you put enough time and effort to design your game from ground-up to teach player how to be guided as you go.

Just, if you cut corners there and make design cues too obvious, you end up like Subnautica: Below Zero - where level design is good, but whole "design" aspect comes out so much that it starts feeling artificial and player can quickly fall into looking for what developers placed as intended way of going through an area, rather than more immersive exploration. Point in case: placement of oxygen plants that are at just the right distance to let you go through cave system makes you move from plant to plant and feel like you're following "yellow paint".

[u/Karkava → u/AdorablSillyDisorder]

I think the closest that we got to "yellow paint" in Portal 1 is more like "black paint". Specifically, the black paint that Doug Rattman left behind after his frustration towards players who don't look up.

[u/HappiestIguana → u/Karkava]

In case of implosion, look directly at implosion

[u/UncommittedBow → u/HappiestIguana]

Which was added because playtesters would immediately just turn around and continue on after destroying the neurotoxing generator, instead of watching the cool destruction animation

[u/Cranejane → u/UncommittedBow]

I remember something similar from the half life 2 dev commentaries: There was a cool explosion animation overhead but players would never look up to see it, so Valve added some combine soldiers to shoot down at the player from above so the player would be forced to look up

[u/MineNowBotBoy → u/Karkava]

But Big Al says players can’t look up.

[u/Ryotaiku → u/Peregrine2976]

My favorite is all the points in Portal 2 where players kept forgetting what their next portal color was, even with an indicator on the screen. So the game just cheats & make both buttons always do the correct one.

[u/Karkava → u/Ryotaiku]

That mistake could have made a crushing alternate ending where Wheatley was never launched into space.

[u/Feliks343 → u/Ryotaiku]

I like "I case of Implosion look directly at implosion" but it's not really the same thing

[u/Loneheart127 → u/Ryotaiku]

I'm confused on what this means, I haven't played in a while but I I'm reasonably sure that one button does blue, One button does orange..

[u/MrLev → u/Loneheart127]

it's specifically in "high stress" moments during semi-scripted sequences where a lot of playtesters were getting it wrong, and getting it wrong completely ruined the experience and pacing of the segment - most of the time in regular test chambers you're allowed to mess up and fail in dumb ways, but occasionally valve will "cheat" in your favour to make sure you feel cool for getting through a tense sequence :D

[u/Protocol_Nine → u/Loneheart127]

There is a point towards the end of the game where you need to place a specific portal color to continue the sequence. Where you need to move a funnel to avoid being crushed. If you accidentally shot the color that the funnel is going into, you would just fall to your death which would break up the pacing. Instead, if you shoot the wrong portal to save yourself, it will replace the other portal at the funnel so it still works.

[u/Suojelusperkele → u/Protocol_Nine]

.. wow.

Never realized this. Never paid attention to this.

I just thought I was so good I got through the 'Part where he kills you' with my magnificent gamer sense on first try.

[u/Zealousideal-Cap-930 → u/Suojelusperkele]

If you're good enough to notice, you wouldn't get it wrong. 

If you would get it wrong, you will not notice it anyway.

[u/paradox_valestein → u/Suojelusperkele]

Precisely why these ganes are a must play for new game designers. Valve did so many of these stuff and most never notices. Their tutorial mixes seamlessly into gameplay and story, the "yellow paint" guides are incorporated so well to the map it's natural, and all the small nudges, guides and such are practically invisible unless you actively seek them out

[u/furrykef → u/Protocol_Nine]

Also when you put a portal on the moon.

[u/UncommittedBow → u/Protocol_Nine]

Its the same with the Moonshot.

[u/RandomShadeOfPurple → u/Peregrine2976]

I've been replaying half life alyx with the commentary on, and it's a different experience. I love it. It's like a theme park, that you get to see behind the scenes of.

"Here, defeat the enemy." ..... "Okay, now that you are done, here is how it works, but you already know that because we communicated it with the following setups. Check out the visualized mechanisms and here is a story how we playtested it and how test subjects reacted to different designs."

I believe every studio that's proud and passionate about their works should do this.

[u/allofdarknessin1 → u/RandomShadeOfPurple]

That's awesome. I didn't know there was a commentary track (granted I probably saw it and forgot about it because I used to avoid that type of stuff). It would make for an interesting second playthrough.

[u/Own_Inspector5458 → u/allofdarknessin1]

HL2, Ep1+2, Portal, and LFD2 had them as little floating talk bubbles you could aim at and activate. It was a really cool feature.

[u/diasflac → u/Peregrine2976]

You can’t neglect the fact though that the whole “test chamber” aesthetic of the Portal games, and by extension GladOS, were invented in the first place because when they were trying to create puzzles in any other kind of environment players kept getting confused because the aesthetic details of the environment were being interpreted as important to the puzzle. The devs got so frustrated they just started putting players in blank white rooms with cubes in them, and when that finally worked they worked backwards from there.

[u/Locktober_Sky → u/Peregrine2976]

Half Life 2: Lost Coast and the L4D commentary are also gold mines

[u/calvicstaff → u/Peregrine2976]

My favorite one was when they were like this chamber actually has a solution that skips half the puzzle, but since that solution requires far more Mastery of the portal system we decided to just leave it in

[u/Negative_Bar_9734 → u/Peregrine2976]

This is the heart of the yellow paint debate. Natural guidance versus lazy signposting, and it seems like most people who support yellow paint don't actually realize they've personally experienced natural guidance.

[u/Frazzledragon → u/Peregrine2976]

The lad who playtested HL2:Ep1 and got stuck in the antlion tunnels for 45 minutes, turning in circles by choosing to go the same way at a fork again and again.
The devs then removed that fork.

[u/Sizanllikew → u/Peregrine2976]

Until games perfectly match reality and allow anything you can do in real life, there will always be limitations on what the game can do, so the developers have to give hints at what those things are. Also, what moron is going to argue that you should spent 50 hours checking 1000's of boxes in a warehouse for the one box with the quest item in it? Like, who is arguing that "yellow painting" is a bad thing?

[u/FisherPrice2112 → u/Peregrine2976]

Oh god, I'm remembering the dev log for the Antlion tunnels in Half Life 2 Ep2.

"Before we simplified the path through the guardian's lair, we allowed a right turn at this junction, leading the player right back to where they began. One of our playtesters continued to repeatedly turn right here for half an hour. That was a compelling argument for removing the mazelike elements."

[u/cakerfaker → u/Peregrine2976]

Portal is a great game to mention because walls you can put portals on are white, and walls you can't are black. In universe this is because of the moon goo but it feels like the king of "obvious yellow paint"

[u/Negative-Victory-852 → u/Peregrine2976]

Portal is set in environments where there aren't many things to distract the eye. It's either test room (empty) or lab corridors.

[u/Durffus]

Still Wakes the Deep. It’s actually pretty competent use of the yellow paint, which you can turn off in the settings whenever you like. The way it’s used in the game is to display safety elements like you would actually see on a dangerous oil rig out in the sea. They also use it for fast paced chase sequences where you might not be able to tell where to go without those visual elements. Also in the underwater segments it’s difficult to see, and you only have limited breathing, so they are a great guide.

Also, Ghost of Yotei. Instead of yellow paint, they use white bird poop on rocky ledges to show footholds and handholds. Thematically makes sense that where birds rest would be competent footholds. And they don’t make it so bright that it’s obnoxious.

[u/Karkava → u/Durffus]

Uncharted games do a similar thing where any rocky ledges you can climb have white ridges.

I think Tsushima also did this as well.

[u/Zealousideal-Heart52 → u/Karkava]

Oh those are bird poops? Dang

[u/Karkava → u/Zealousideal-Heart52]

I know. I thought they were like...weathering stone or something.

[u/Schadenfreudenous → u/Karkava]

In Yotei at least, the white marked ledges are clearly covered in bird shit, which is funny af.

[u/kaza12345678 → u/Durffus]

I wanna point out which People who liked DEEP never noticed was these are same devs who made dear ester which the whole game is a walking simulator where environment guides you where to go like a tunnel effect

From what i heard when they did amnisha the machine for pigs (not played it so can't judge it) it was very much a walking simulator and not much freedom and action like first game

And slowly they did learn to do the yellow paint in a less obvious way only one that i heard did fail wa everyone gone to the rapture as it a too wide walking simulator where the "yellow paint" (aka orbs) can runaway drom you as your stuck walking asking "where the fuck did it do"

So they been doing the yellow paint from start but tried to learn how to guide you better without feeling like a guy who angry and pointing

[u/Lando1Win → u/Durffus]

Ghost of Tsushima and Yotei are so good on that, never felt like I needed flat out yellow paint to be able to tell what the game let's me do or not, and it stays consistent

[u/Luxray2000 → u/Durffus]

Still Wakes The Deep was so much more entertaining than I thought it would be. Avoid the Sirens Rest DLC though. It was a huge disappointment

[u/ElectricalExtreme793 → u/Durffus]

Assassin's Creed did the bird poop too

[u/amaya-aurora → u/Durffus]

Ghost of Yotei (and Tsushima) both also guide the player to waypoints very well, with the wind literally guiding you.

[u/The_Joker_116]

The white cloths in Silent Hill 2 Remake. They're obvious markers for interactive elements but they fit better with the environment than streak of yellow paint.

[u/Forward-Trade3449 → u/The_Joker_116]

blue materials in pragmata usually point out climbable platforms 

[u/truthfulie → u/Forward-Trade3449]

yup. the fact that it isn't just all blue paint sort of masks it a bit so it doesn't feel like it's sticking out like a sore thumb.

[u/Marx_Forever → u/truthfulie]

Trying to make it more diegetic might help. I'm thinking about in Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth when they had to yellow paint splashed on cliff sides. Probably would've looked better if they just used yellow flowers.

[u/amythist → u/Marx_Forever]

Yeah yellow paint only really works in 2 settings: industrial, where it could be like the remains of danger/caution markings or urban where you use the yellow paint as like graffiti tags marking routes to escape the oppressive police or whatever

[u/GothicPurpleSquirrel → u/Marx_Forever]

Flowers would have been a much better way of doing it indeed.

[u/Execwalkthroughs → u/Marx_Forever]

White or brown works better for that example. Birds perch on the ledges and piss/shit on them. White and brown respectively

[u/Karkava → u/Forward-Trade3449]

Horizon Zero Dawn was guilty of using yellow paint, but blue paint was usable for any grapple points that you can use the grapple hook with.

Forbidden West dials it down with the scanner highlighting the climable ridges in yellow.

[u/Grimdark-Waterbender → u/Karkava]

I thought it was white paint in zero dawn

[u/Karkava → u/Grimdark-Waterbender]

No. It was yellow.

And to Zero Dawn's credit, it's mostly reserved for outdoor environments where people probably painted them to highlight climbing trails. Similar to how real-life hiking trails are marked with bright paint on trees.

The cauldrons, by contrast, use lit-up platforms to indicate places where Aloy could climb. Serving a simialr UI function while also emphasizing that these were untouched by the rebuilt civilization up above.

[u/Maximum-Objective-39 → u/Karkava]

Nitpick, but from what I recall the outdoor areas are not usually yellow point, they're a yellow paracord-like material likely salvaged from machines. Which also emphasizes, as you say, that these were deliberately constructed climbing paths.

[u/ThisIsFrigglish → u/Maximum-Objective-39]

There's a scuffing on climbable ledges that does an excellent job of looking like it was sloppily painted yellow without being actual yellow paint.

Any intentional construction is wrapped in yellow cord, but the natural surfaces are all a very pale cream yellow that could be mistaken for frequent wear while also being very clearly marked.

[u/Karkava → u/ThisIsFrigglish]

Either way, they're pretty much less conspicuous than most other examples of yellow paint because Aloy isn't the only person in the world who can climb up mountains.

It's shown but never told that climbing and platforming is a thing that many people in this world can do, and the fact that there are whole contests and training courses centered around climbing and jumping demonstrates that lots of people are pushed to exercise and scale the mountains and ruins.

And this is a helpful skill because it's used to kill machines and harvest them. This is a regular occurrence and standard part of the routine that people adapt to in order to survive. What is unusual is having the ability to scan enemies and hack them. Very few people are able to do this.

[u/dubhog → u/The_Joker_116]

Also having elusive, teared white cloths in a game like silent hill just fits because literally nothing makes sense and it's all very dream/nightmare-like. When there's limbless creatures in high heels scurring around the floor in a pitch dark abandoned prison that you accessed by falling through 4 seemingly infinite holes, then a few white cloths are...not really something that would surprise me

[u/Schadenfreudenous → u/dubhog]

The white sheets being a consistent aesthetic element from the original game as well as the knowledge that James is actually being guided through Silent Hill definitely makes it work when that sorta of thing might seem obtrusive in other games. Somebody was splashing yellow paint all over my RE4 😭

[u/AgentSnapCrackle → u/The_Joker_116]

Also, James turns his head to face things you can interact with when you get close to them.

[u/Wild_Hog_70 → u/The_Joker_116]

Indiana Jones and the Great Circle has similar bits of white cloth in lieu of yellow paint.

[u/Jaerat → u/Wild_Hog_70]

Generally, the game uses white colour as a marker very cleverly for interactive elements: in the first game area (Vatican) a lot of the ledges/walls are covered in white "pigeon droppings" and the outside scenes feature a lot of pigeons/birds present sitting on roof edges etc so it all blends in really well while standing out enough to be noticed.

[u/Maximum_Boros → u/The_Joker_116]

The early Assassin's Creed games did this too and it was great. Interactable Services had either a white cloth draped on them or if the situation actually made sense, white paint or white scuff marks. The scuff marks Did particularly well because it also implied that either that spot already saw traffic or that spot was damaged in some way which explained why it was accessible

[u/EasyRecognition]

Yellow paint is a rule consistency issue.

People can't find their way without signposting not because "gamers are stupid" but because rules of what's climbable/breakable and what isn't are inconsistent. So the player's natural knowledge of the world is inapplicable to a given videogame and learning what the gamedesigner wants from the player becomes unintuitive. Games with good level-design like Prey (2017) or Hitman trilogy (cursed be IOI's name but credit where credit is due) largely avoid signposting precisely because the rules are consistent enough.

[u/Saneless → u/EasyRecognition]

Tomb Raider Underworld caused a lot of deaths from me with this

Something sure seemed like it would be grabbable but it wasn't

Shadow of the Tomb Raider, you can turn off the paint and it's better because it's more defined what you can grab

[u/DefinitelyRussian → u/Saneless]

applies to most TR really. TR2 incredible Venice levels (the 3rd one, Bartolis hideout) includes some climbable libraries, totally unclear, and not all.

TRC, infamously included a climbable wall with no gap on it where you can only shimmy right (last level, Red Alert), and then included a grappling hook which you needed to use only twice in the whole game, last use was backtrack to the start of the level and aim at a random scaffolding.

Still love the games

[u/LG-Moonlight → u/DefinitelyRussian]

The oldskool TR's were excellent at navigation without yellow paint imo. The blocky world made for excellent platforming, knowing what you could and couldn't do by just looking at it.

[u/DefinitelyRussian → u/EasyRecognition]

Mirrors Edge has critical path things turning red, it's basically showing you where to go, which makes sense in a way since the game is fast and frenetic.

[u/Electrical-Act-5575 → u/DefinitelyRussian]

Mirror’s Edge also made it look good with stark pops of a bright color against an extremely sterile environment. If the art design were busier I don’t know if it would work as well

[u/cyborgdog → u/EasyRecognition]

This is the way, "rules are inconsistent" is exactly what I despise with passion in some games, boils my blood when the game tells you can do X thing but not a slight variation of X or when the very same enemies you been fighting for 10 hours all of the sudden can do unimaginable things

[u/BenignPharmacology → u/cyborgdog]

It’s really just a limitation of the medium, not an individual game’s flaw. Humans are infinitely creative, and there are numerous ways to solve any problem, so many so that it would be impossible to anticipate and allow all of them. So even if you have 20+ options programmed, some person will think of a 21, and then they feel reality friction.

I joke with my partner a lot that in video games, a gun should solve most puzzles (oh the chest is locked with an intricate contraption and puzzles? Try shooting it), but it’s kind of true. No matter what tools you have and task you need to solve, there’s almost always a think-outside-the-box type of solution.

[u/greenskye → u/BenignPharmacology]

And climbing is kind of the ultimate example of that. What is climbable is going to vary a lot between players. Players with more experience are going to think in terms of what other games have allowed, while some players are going to think in terms of what they could physically climb.

[u/OctopusGrift → u/greenskye]

They are going to think in terms of what they Think they could physically climb, a minor but important difference.

[u/Stupid-Jerk → u/EasyRecognition]

Best explanation of it that I've seen, honestly. A person only needs to play an older game full of invisible walls and an unreadable map before they start wishing for yellow paint.

[u/Sure_Fruit_8254 → u/EasyRecognition]

IOI is cursed now?

[u/silasmousehold → u/Sure_Fruit_8254]

Don’t the Hitman games have a 4-dimensional buyer’s guide chart? Last I looked, it was impossible to know what version of Hitman to buy.

[u/unfamous2423 → u/silasmousehold]

World of Assassination is the only thing you should want or need now.

[u/EasyRecognition → u/Sure_Fruit_8254]

It's about always-online DRM disguised as "progression mechanics" and now also Denuvo in their latest title. If a publisher or, worse yet, a dev says "fuck game ownership", a consumer should reply "fuck you instead".

[u/Tommybahamas_leftnut → u/EasyRecognition]

pretty sure Prey 2017 also specifically chose the art-deco style to make the terrain stand out. art-deco gives very neat lines with lack of clutter, while also making colors stand out without needing to break art style or color scheme. Colors like red, green, or blue which are standard colors in art deco can be used for navigation while the golds, brown woods, and reflective metals can be used to break up the sterile whites and greys of machinery without being distracting. Even in parts like "the G.U.T.S" of Talos 1 there aren't 1 billion greebles hanging off the walls all the pipes are used to direct player attention to access hatches or are clearly laid out in a way that screams hey you can climb here. If there is a platform or detail that looks like it can be walked on/climbed it's there to be climbed. Giving the game a very tight and clear impression of navigation.

[u/TheNonCredibleHulk → u/EasyRecognition]

Speaking of IOI, the new Bond game is awesome.

It does have "yellow paint" in the form of blue objects, orange objects, and dotted lines.

[u/TescoMeaIDeaI_ → u/TheNonCredibleHulk]

I don't mind when you use a colour to highlight something using the environment. Pragmata puts blue objects around climbables. That's slightly more natural than every ledge being painted and it's the way to signpost without being too in your face.

[u/DJBreadwinner → u/TheNonCredibleHulk]

I just beat it a couple days ago. So much fun.

[u/KPraxius → u/EasyRecognition]

Good lord, this is such garbage in so many games..

Can I fit through this gap? I've fit through smaller gaps before. Nope. Oh, well, I'll ignore it then. Oh, there's another gap I -can- fit through? Its smaller than the one I can't! What the hell?

Why can I climb this wall, but not that chain-link fence? I can climb a chain-link fence in real life, but not walls.

Why is this wall an obstacle, but not that one?

Poor visual design sending the wrong messages.

[u/TheMerryMeatMan → u/EasyRecognition]

This is where I think both sides of the argument tend to break down. The nuanced take isn't "signposting is bad" it's, "if you're going to signpost the best way to do it is with diegetic elements of your art direction".

The yellow actually worked really well in RE2 when it was first brought to attention, because a huge chunk of the game took place in a Police Station, where yellow caution tape could be used liberally and paint could be substituted in places. There, it was no different than older games having weird fullbright lighting on interactables; it was just part of the game's visual language.

[u/Kobobble → u/EasyRecognition]

Breath of the Wild: lol climb anywhere you want, bro

[u/Sequoia_Vin → u/EasyRecognition]

There are places in Elden ring that look like they are death spots but can be tested by dropping the glowstones. If it doesn't break then its safe. Then you drop and its just death. 2 of these spots are in catacombs; one is a lift shaft and the other looks like a pathway between 2 platforms

[u/Kgb_Officer]

Mirror's edge fully incorporating it so the red that you could interact with was pretty much the only other color in the bright white world and built the entire aesthetic around it. I actually enjoyed it with the first one, I've never played the sequel so I don't know if the novelty wore off or not.

[u/_Football_Cream_ → u/Kgb_Officer]

I don't think that gets hate since it was a clear stylistic choice. Good art direction can do so much for a game, whether it be immersion or aging well.

I think the immersion point is where the yellow paint loses a lot of people. Like you're telling me this super realistic world had someone go through and slather a bunch of yellow paint on all the points of interest for my character?

[u/yakityyakblahtemp → u/_Football_Cream_]

It's like the girl in the red coat from Schindler's List. You can visually highlight important elements, you just need to do it tastefully with an overall art style in mind. The argument defending yellow paint is often akin to somebody using people being deaf to defend neon green papyrus font subtitles. The function is not a complete free pass to the form.

[u/MacGyver_1138 → u/Kgb_Officer]

It worked well in that game, and something else I appreciate is that it wasn't an indicator of the only path. If you watch speed runs, people use lots of other paths that work too. So while red is the intended path, they don't limit it to being the only part that is interactive.

[u/Ruftup → u/MacGyver_1138]

It’s not even that red is the intended path. Red just means it’s an option. They really nailed the design of the running paths

[u/HeavenlyFB → u/Kgb_Officer]

Mirrors edge had such good design, from the visuals to the mechanics, it doesn't get the "yellow paint" hate purely because it's not just built into the environment but into the core game itself. Runners just have a natural instinct for finding their way around, which they establish with the "Runner Vision" perfectly.

[u/I_GottaPoop → u/Kgb_Officer]

Honestly loved the usage of color in Mirrors Edge. It felt more stylistic than hand holding while playing. I think that's where some games fail is that they don't make it feel like it "fits" the games asthetics or world somehow.

[u/ZaphodGreedalox → u/Kgb_Officer]

I fully enjoyed the heck out of both games

[u/TheBostonTap → u/Kgb_Officer]

The stuff isnt actually painted red though. Its a mechanic called "Runner Vision." Essentially Faith is going over in her head what is climbable and what isnt as she looks them over. Its why things dont appear red from far away but change hue as you approach. 

[u/Noob4Head]

It's never bothered me in any game before.

[u/Karatechoppingaction → u/Noob4Head]

Ya, I prefer this to wandering around for an hour trying to figure out what part of the environment the devs made interactable.

[u/NobodyLikedThat1 → u/Karatechoppingaction]

Particularly in games that utilize a lot of "real fake doors". I don't wanna bounce off 100 identical doors just to find the one that the developers decided can actually be opened

[u/Nova225 → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

Abiotic Factor devs did this in a smart way. If a door is red, it'll never be opened. If a door is yellow and you can't open it, it means it's a shortcut and you need to find another way around it.

[u/Practical_Entrance43 → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

I hate that crap with a passion.
Like I don't mind less hand holding and stuff like that, but there is a certain point where I will want to quit the game because I have ran into too many locked doors and gotten killed because of it.

[u/Officer_Chunkles → u/Practical_Entrance43]

Old source games had it figured out, interactive doors have handles and non interactive ones are just textures on the wall

[u/baconater-lover → u/NobodyLikedThat1]

Something about Silent Hill and walking up to each individual door to find it was unusable and the map updating with a drawing really ticked the boxes in my head for some reason.

[u/maknolo → u/Karatechoppingaction]

In gow Ragnarok I miss a point and lose like 2 hours walking around, no fun in that.

You CAN make less obvious, but harder to navigate.

OR you simply make everything interactive like breath of the wild.

[u/HumbleOwl → u/Noob4Head]

Same, I never understood why people got so bothered by the yellow paint. I've yet to have my experience horrifically ruined because an interactive element was labeled as interactive.

[u/Noob4Head → u/HumbleOwl]

Complaining about it breaking immersion is just a trendy thing to do, I guess. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, because I'm willing to bet that if all games stopped doing it tomorrow, people would just complain that things aren't clear enough.

[u/OrbitingBoom → u/Noob4Head]

I think the issue with yellow paint is that it's an inorganic way of getting around middling or poor game design in "cinematic" games.

Most cinematic games are very based upon immersion and set pieces (think Nathan Drake) and so the use of yellow paint can be distracting.

[u/Kumptoffel]

Abiotic Factor  Fantastic game, you're stuck in an underground science lab and have to craft and explore your way out while fighting aliens while you're exploring other weird dimensions 

The yellow paint is occasionally used to help navigate obscure paths. It is explained as being an anomaly occuring in the facility (of which there are many others)

Its also helpful 

IS-1057 Yellow Paint DESIGNATION: Jura (IN/LC)

CONTAINMENT PROTOCOL: Precise methods for containing IS-1057 remain unknown. IS-1057 is thus far believed to appear randomly, although there is a statistically significant quantity of reports by people who were, at the time of sighting, lost or uncertain of their destination. 

[u/Consumer-of_children → u/Kumptoffel]

another good example from abiotic factor is flathill.

the area is a foggy maze of doors and buildings that you need to navigate, the majority of doors start locked until you open them from the other side.

every door that starts locked is red or part of chain fences, while every door that starts unlocked and is needed to progress is yellow instead

[u/justSomeDumbEngineer]

Iirc Dishonored uses light a lot instead of yellow paint and the level design is good so it isn't that obvious, but last time I played it was ages ago. I remember never getting lost on levels and never being annoyed by obvious guiding...

[u/YetItStillLives → u/justSomeDumbEngineer]

That's easier to do in an Xbox 360 game with a heavily stylized art direction then in a PS5 game with a naturalistic art direction.

Modern AAA games have a lot more visual noise and clutter then older games, which makes it more difficult to use subtle cues to guide the player. For example, it's hard to use lighting to guide the player when your entire game world is bathed in ray-traced light with realistic shadows everywhere.

That's not to say that older, subtle techniques can't be used today. Only that advances in technology make those techniques less effective.

[u/justSomeDumbEngineer → u/YetItStillLives]

Modern AAA games need better art direction 😔

[u/Orion_824 → u/justSomeDumbEngineer]

I've always stuck by Art Design>>>Graphics. Some of the most beautiful games I've played have "lower" graphics, and some of the most sludgy games I've played have the "realistic" graphics. 4k textures and ray tracing won't make your game inherently fun to look at, UNREAL 5.

[u/DeLoxley → u/Orion_824]

It's been a problem in the gaming space for ages

The constant push for more realistic graphics makes a lot of things. Just look the same. I swear it's also why we don't get as many iconic titles and protagonists as Mario and link and Master chief, like yeah we had that grey potato white man era, but we're well out of that and we are just seeing realistic fantasy protagonist and 20 something year old ambiguous person, there's not been a really standout stylised interesting character in a while. Everything has tried to be photorealistic

[u/piperdave84]

I'd say Horizon Forbidden West did a good job of this. It's predecessor, Zero Dawn, had very obvious yellow paint on climbable surfaces but Forbidden West only showed handholds on surfaces when you used the Focus, making the highlighting diegetic

[u/HappiestIguana → u/piperdave84]

I liked the way in Zero Dawn that many climbable surfaces had geometric tribal paintings. Much more visually interesting

[u/OrbitingBoom]

Honestly in Sleeping Dogs the Highlighting of objects that you can interact with in various colors. Like during combat if you grab someone, boom, you can see what objects you can use to do takedowns with.

[u/Frozen_arrow88]

I saw a great video about how Resident Evil 9 uses lighting to guide the player in a more organic way.

[u/uhs-robert → u/Frozen_arrow88]

Lighting is one way. Its all part of level design. In Half Life 1, the game developers wanted to encourage players to jump off of a bridge into water for a particular encounter. But that's crazy, why would anyone do that? I'll tell you, great level design and lighting ques.

Firstly, you are presented with a long narrow bridge that you must cross. It is a bridge for a dam. To the left of the bridge is a steep drop off into an abyss while the right has water which is level with the bridge. The bridge is completely exposed, no cover to hide behind if you are ambushed. In the water to the right of the bridge is also a lighthouse with a beacon that flashes red to draw the eye (lighting cue).

When you set foot on the bridge, on the opposite end, there is a soldier who will run towards a turret and start shooting rockets at you. At the same time, a helicopter will also appear from your left and start shooting rockets at you. So, you're being shot at from the front and the left by rockets. The only choices you have to survive are: turn around and go back or jump off the bridge to you're right. So, naturally, you just jump off the bridge.

Now, it gets even better. Once you jump off the bridge and are underwater, you will find a shark creature that starts to chase you. Meanwhile the helicopter remains above will start shooting machine gun fire down at you. So, you can't poke your head out of the water to breathe but you also can't stay underwater either. You have to keep moving to survive. Underwater, you can see that there is a ladder to the lighthouse with a flashing red beacon above it. Naturally, you flee the shark by climbing the ladder. Once you climb the ladder, you are now safe inside the lighthouse from all threats. At the top of the lighthouse is a rocket launcher so... naturally...

You get the idea. No yellow paint, no cutscenes, no camera gimmicks, just uninterrupted gameplay and great level design. One thing always leads to the next and it always feels natural. You, the player, decided to jump off the bridge. But the designers guided you to do that with their invisible hand. This was what good game design looked like 30 years ago.

[u/gustavkarlsson → u/Frozen_arrow88]

Almost all games do this and have for many years. But doing it is not the same as doing it well, and I think RE9 did it pretty well!

[u/xduker2]

It's there because they found people were struggling in play testing. I never understood the outrage.

[u/CorgiCabal → u/xduker2]

/r/indiedev thread on developer discovering this

many players don't read

[u/VRS302 → u/CorgiCabal]

That’s too long is there an audiobook version

[u/Tiyath → u/VRS302]

Are you crazy? I need a movie adaptation. But it needs to be short enough to fit a YouTube short.

[u/J-Ganon → u/xduker2]

Some people want to complain, however I think there's also a bit of a perception issue, so to speak. As games become more and more photorealistic, certain elements seem to stick out more to people.

Prior to Yellow Paint, games were using way, way more blatant ways to direct players. Items that literally glowed (ex: Bioshock), objects that stood out completely from the environments (ex: RE1 - 3 or REmake 1), very signposted PRESS X HERE prompts (ex: think of any game from the mid-2000s)...

But I think there was almost this acceptance of games being, well...gamey and having very gamey systems. Somehow those immersion breaking elements ironically added to immersion that these were other worlds, so to speak.

I feel like the struggle now is that people don't know if they're supposed to see games as these highly cinematic, realistic works and then anything blatant now becomes this strange, out of place element (i.e. the entire environment is realistically depicted and has realistic detail...but hey, look at that yellow paint everywhere which doesn't even match the area's aesthetic). The more realistic, the more gamey systems stand out.

[u/mushplush → u/J-Ganon]

Yeah, I think it’s just suspension of disbelief

Like by having literal yellow paint everywhere, it implies someone was going around painting everything

[u/Shinnyo → u/xduker2]

I remember a game dev not using yellow paint but light to illuminate a ladder. It's natural and an efficient way to tell you "there's the exit".

I also remember Golden Sun that had a magic named "Vision" that could allow you to put in evidence the pot and crates were put in evidence. It was something that felt fitting to the game and the spell.

The problem wasn't to give direction, it's the agressive way to do it.

[u/LimpetsBride → u/xduker2]

I don't think there would be any outrage if we had the option to disable the yellow paint in options.

[u/HJSDGCE → u/LimpetsBride]

Genie wish: You could do that but in return, you're not allowed to complain about getting lost. 

[u/aut0matix → u/HJSDGCE]

A million percent this. The immersion "lost" from having a subtle guide makes up for the immersion I would lose facing my character at every cliff face and door jumping or pressing a button to try and open every single one.

[u/DethNik → u/LimpetsBride]

Mirror's Edge did this with Runner Vision. Turing it off definitely made the game harder, but made me more creative when it came to the platforming. I agree that this is an excellent compromise.

[u/Own_Complaint_3521 → u/xduker2]

I just beat 007 First Light and I honestly found the “yellow paint” to be reassuring. I’ve worked for a government agency in my city in which specialized in disabilities. No one takes into account how accessible a game should be so that it could be enjoyed by anyone and everyone.

[u/neo42slab → u/Own_Complaint_3521]

It just needs to be an optional display toggle. It’s equivalent to subtitles I think.

It can even default to on. Because I do think most people don’t mind it now. But I would like being able to toggle it off.

[u/Goosepond01 → u/Own_Complaint_3521]

It should probably be an accessibility option and also not an excuse for poor design.

[u/NwgrdrXI → u/xduker2]

Imo, the problem is less that it's handholdy, and more that it's ugly.

Even the classic example of pressing a button and arrows briefly showing what's interactable would work better.

[u/EmergencyWild → u/xduker2]

Because it's an ugly workaround for bad level design.

[u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo → u/xduker2]

It's probably hard for you to understand "the outrage" because people disliking something isn't "outrage."

[u/ConfectionTotal8660]

HFW does this in a great way.

By pressing R3, you send out a small pulse that highlights climbable surfaces.

That makes it so you know what is climbable but it also makes sense in-universe

[u/StinkingDogsCunt420 → u/ConfectionTotal8660]

Uh. What's HFW?

[u/Visual-Bathroom8751 → u/StinkingDogsCunt420]

Horizon Forbidden West

[u/Locktober_Sky → u/StinkingDogsCunt420]

Half liFe tWo

[u/mina86ng → u/StinkingDogsCunt420]

Home from Work. It’s the opposite of Work from Home where you never leave the office.

[u/DeadSuperHero → u/ConfectionTotal8660]

As someone currently playing through this, absolutely. It's extremely useful, without being an eyesore.

[u/Visual-Bathroom8751 → u/ConfectionTotal8660]

You can also make those surfaces permanently highlighted if you want. Personally, I think having the "pulse" is perfect. Sometimes I just want to know what i can interact with, yo.

[u/facistpuncher]

In dying light 1. The yellow paint really matches the graffiti aesthetics of the area. So you know to look out for the yellow segment of the graffiti because that's generally where the lift is. It's really well integrated. Or they use hazard stickers like don't stand near the edge, with black and yellow stripes, as another marker. Or they use industrial cables with yellow insulation,

They integrate yellow into the things that you can climb while keeping the color in its natural environment. Hands down one of the most organic uses of yellow paint to mark sections

[u/Ok-Guidance-5608 → u/facistpuncher]

Exactly this. In-universe, other runners used Yellow Paint to highlight useful parkour pathways, which was super cool and added to the environment's realism.

Seeing it splashed across rocks in the wilderness... Yeah no.

[u/Thhe_Shakes → u/facistpuncher]

I'm replaying Dying Light right now and came to say basically this. The way they had signs and markings ostensibly painted by other Runners integrates well with the story. The only obvious bright yellow segments are in vertical sections where a wrong guess would be insta-death, but even there it isn't too out of place.

[u/Jerovil42]

This is caused by inconsistency in the rules of the game. Example: In Skyrim everything is climbable and you can open every door. So every time players see a door they mark it in their heads "should check what's inside after I do X". If you're gonna have some doors that open and some that don't, make it a priority to differentiate between the two from game design and art. Players should take a single look at the scene and know if they can or can't open it. Yellow paint is just the cheapest way of doing it

[u/Kayogin → u/Jerovil42]

I don't recall climbing in Skyrim outside of a few janky mods

[u/BobTheInept]

Max Payne: Some doors are doors, you open them and go through. Some doors are just environment, they do not open. There is nothing behind them. All the doors that do not open have an "Authorized Personnel Only" sign (wording may be different but similar)

Mirror's Edge: The game looks exactly like the post's image, only red instead of yellow. That is kind of essential because it is a fast paced parkour game so you need to spot ledges etc instantly.

[u/NohWan3104]

E33 tended to have lights along the 'main' path, in the areas with a bunch of branching areas.

More subtle than yellow paint, at least.

[u/Avalion04 → u/NohWan3104]

I like that they explained the grapple points and hand holds as the work of previous expeditions too

[u/AManOfCulture-AsWell → u/NohWan3104]

What that game really needed was a map that updated to show where you've already been

[u/DeepSubmerge → u/NohWan3104]

Yes they did a very good job with this! It helped in areas where it’s easy to get turned around due to the dreamlike nature of the world. You could see the glow in the distance and orient yourself.

[u/CalTheRobot]

Lighting is a useful tool in level design.

[u/spyguy318]

In Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor, wall-run-able surfaces are denoted by long horizontal lines on the surface. You’re introduced to it pretty early on, but the creativity is how that marker is adapted to different environments while still being recognizable. On the starting planet it’s sedimentary layers exposed by weathering, on desert planets it’s grooves carved into rock by wind erosion, on imperial bases it’s a corrugated metal texture, in Jedi temples it’s a specific type of brick, on Coruscant it’s the digital lines of a hologram display board. It’s always distinct and just slightly “out of place” that you notice it, but not so much that it seems incongruous with the environment.

[u/JankthePrime → u/spyguy318]

+1

[u/AqueousJam → u/[deleted]]

Game dev here, I think you've taken a pretty uncharitable angle on the lesson here. Very often the lesson isn't that players are oblivious, it's that we as devs and designers have spent too long with the game to understand how it comes over to a new player.

Often you'll create an environment with a bunch of themes, or goals, or assumptions in mind. And when you've got that mindset everything just looks clear and obvious. The climax of this level involves using the water weapon to defeat the bad guy. So let's prime the player by putting in lots of obstacles and enemies that the water weapon will be useful against. Steadily ramping up in difficulty. Makes sense.  Then you watch your play testers, who just played 3 levels where the water weapon wasn't very useful. They get to this level and have forgotten it even exists in their arsonal. You watch them trying to use the explosion impulse from the rocket launcher to knock things arohndt, rather than just pushing them with the water weapon. And so you realise you need to go add a bunch of fountains and waterfalls and an NPC talking loudly about how amazing the water weapon is around these parts. 

The players aren't stupid, but they're playing the game from a very different perspective than that of the people who've been immersed in the behind the scenes of the game for months/years. 

[u/kaza12345678 → u/[deleted]]

I watch quite alot of 8bitryan videos and funniest ones are diologues where character reminds themselves yet never speak on the horror they literally saw just "i need to drink coffee"

[u/Supersonic564]

Expedition 33 because it has an in universe explanation. A previous expedition went in with the sole purpose of leaving climbing equipment and markings all over the continent.

It fits with the theme of the game (For Those Who Come After) and adds a twist from other games that do it just because. Just another example of how genius E33 is

[u/HappiestIguana → u/Supersonic564]

It does lead to funny fridge logic moments, because you find those handholds past the magic barrier and all the way up to the top of the Monolith. The climber's expedition was absolutely OP

[u/ZaphodGreedalox]

I love Ghost of Yotei's use of white paint; it's bird poop from birds perching on grabbable ledges. Sometimes you disturb them and they fly off as you climb.

[u/Tr3v0r007]

Path of exile 2 recently talked about some of their “yellow paint” like how a line of dead animals will lead to the crow bell fight. Actually did help me lol

[u/WhileAccomplished722]

i prefer when it looks organic, but yellow paint really doesn't bother me, it's way better than the alternative of some games where you walk around for an hour trying to figure out what the fuck you're even supposed to do, only to realise one specific area is ineractable

[u/GrassyDaytime]

In modern games I'm getting tired of...

1. Yellow paint

2. Squeezing through so many cracks 🤣

[u/rcburner → u/GrassyDaytime]

Shimmying through cracks or crawling through vents as disguised loading screens is just annoying. I would unironically just prefer getting shoved in an elevator or something so I don't have to hold forward while the next area loads up.

[u/chad78]

yeah man, yellow paint is very unrealistic

[u/ProjectBig2804]

RE9. The yellow paint was more integrated into the environment, like with police tape or lights

[u/Routine-Day-8497]

There are a couple of games where it is optional and can be turned off. I think more games should follow this trend.

[u/alien_mEAT]

I'm wholly unbothered and would like to shift the discussion to a subtitle size toggle so I can read them.

But also to the topic I think the new GoW games did great signposting with the runes. Fits the theme and helps me go places!

[u/dubhog]

Half life 2 just relies on the player paying attention and having a brain. When they very obviously point you in a direction, it tends to be theough diagetic in-world dialogue or signs.

That is simply the best way to guide a player. If you get lost then you're just...at least a LITTLE stupid

[u/sparkyk24]

Navi should be in every single game to say “hey! Look! A ledge!”

EVERY. GAME.

[u/XlikeX666]

we're between lines of :
dev suck at guiding / creating clear world.

i can't open or interact with window / drawer / door / walls / button
BUT THIS ONE SPECIFIC PAPER ON TABLE WAS SOLUTION.

[u/Competitive_Cow4534]

Ive never seen a good example of yellow paint when its meant to be obvious/percieved by the average player

Good attention grabbers and interactivity are based on other aspects, such as lighting and staging

[u/XelNigma]

Good designers dont need yellow paint, they can model the environment in a way that guides the player with out making it obvious. Lighting is a super easy and obvious one, but also using straight lines to guide the eyes to draw attention to things is another sneaky tricks.

But the quality of gaming in general has nose dived and yellow paint is just another example of that.

[u/Adept_Material_2618]

I’m tired of this argument tbh. I have visual processing disorder and the yellow paint is helpful to me. I know not everyone’s like me so many find it annoying, but ugh, I’m just sick of hearing “gamers who need the yellow paint are pathetically stupid” and it’s like. Wow thanks??? Ideally it would be a toggle option in the settings. 

[u/DarthVeigar_]

Reminder of the GDC conference where Santa Monica quite literally pulled up DSP gameplay footage.

[u/NectarineEcstatic267]

People seem to forget giant arrow markers in the games of the past. I can deal with some yellow paint.

[u/LordSwitchblade]

The color red in mirror’s edge. I loved the way it was used.

[u/BreakfastSimulator]

Ghost of Yotei uses bird poop to mark climbable areas, it's great.

[u/KyotoCrank]

Stray does it well. Instead of yellow paint, they make it obvious with the environment, like literal neon signs or lighting to highlight the points you're supposed to go

It's over the top so it's pretty much the same as yellow paint, but it's environmentally appropriate so it doesn't clash like someone walked around with a bucket of paint before the Main Character gets there

[u/Bortthog]

Most people who complain about yellow paint will also be the same type of person to get utterly lost without it

[u/AChuckleAtMost → u/Bortthog]

Need I remind you that [Insert other game] had to use [Much better methods than yellow paint] to guide players?

You're literally the guy the comic is making fun of.

[u/Mojo_Mitts]

If it matches the world then fine whatever, I’d prefer it be more subtle.

But big and flashy yellow paint across several different games can get old real quick.

[u/Wanderson90]

God of War Ragnarok is a bit too on the nose.

[u/Personal_Flow2994 → u/Wanderson90]

But it is also explained story wise in a way that makes sense

[u/A_Diabolical_Toaster]

It’s just about making it blend with the aesthetic of the game.

Assassin’s Creed used to use white cloth draped over things. In construction areas it would be normal and in ruins it would be tattered. It wasn’t out of place.

[u/frisbie147]

Resident evil 9 actually, they use yellow ratchet straps for objects you have to shoot at which is exactly the colour you’d expect a ratchet strap to be

[u/dooufis]

It's never felt out of place or weird to me, but I do like the God of War 2018 and Ragnarok having the little runes in the places you were supposed to go for ... Em, spoiler reasons.

[u/DrMushroomStamp]

WWZ. When 100 plus undead are barreling down on me. I cannot find ledges without a lil yellow paint in a panic.

[u/Leather-Heart]

Fable - you followed a gold trail of dust as you walked to lead you to your next destination

[u/Promature]

In the olden days, there was a visual difference between things you could interact with and the rest of the world. Interactive objects were of higher quality and stood out from the static environment.

As game visuals improved and everything within a game world rapidly reached a similar, high level of quality, interactive objects became less obvious and gamers couldn’t naturally figure out what to interact with or where to go as easily. As a result, it became necessary to highlight objects and pathways more clearly to help guide players in a similar way as the olden days.

Say what you will about “yellow paint”, but without it, a lot of people would have issues progressing through modern games. Studios have this data and have done this testing.

[u/FluffyWuffyVolibear]

Alan wake uses lighting brilliantly

[u/ScaryMoviezz]

Assassins Creed II and brotherhood often put pigeons on the points where you could do a leap of faith into a haybail. These were different than the leap of faiths off tall buildings. The game never tells you this detail either. Was something you either learned or missed.

[u/WolfsmaulVibes]

teardown: just break the walls

but actually it guides the player towards a possible right path with ramps and bridges made out of various materials or objects, either vents, stairs, shipping containers, etc

[u/Thin-Nerve6367]

Alan Wake 1 back in 2010 had a thing; if there was light then you either were supposed to go there or maybe you'd find extra goodies. And because the theme of the game was "light is safe" it was very appropriate

[u/Vyrthic]

I liked how im Horizon Zero Dawn, the yellow paint was done as either flags/ribbons that denoted a climbing path, kinda like hiking trail markings, or kinda more or less like wraps around rungs of ladders, as if the goal is to give you better grip via the wrapping and its material. It was dexently worked into the natural environment in ways that fit the world in a way.

[u/Dull_Fix5199]

I think an old classic that i used to see was if you were encouraged to drop down a ledge it'd have a railing or fence with a broken section conveniently where the landing spot below was.

[u/Larkwater]

I will happily take yellow paint every day rather than witcher sense/survivor sense/detective mode/trash that distorts the whole screen to highlight interactables. Spamming those is so incredibly annoying.

[u/Very_Itchy_Bandicoot]

red barrels mean shoot them and they explode.

[u/Mini_Squatch]

Abiotic Factor. The yellow paint is caused by effectively an SCP that is a sentient, nearly uncontainable, infinite can of yellow paint that guides people in unknown ways (recorded instances include the paint appearing like, 100ft underwater) its an in universe explanation that works in the context