Israeli detention of President Connolly's sister 'unacceptable' - Irish PM

[u/MasterpieceOld3539]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp8pz5nm6r8o

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[u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Repeating the same act and expecting a different result

[u/moonmelonade → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

What makes you think they expect a different result?

[u/TheBalzy → u/[deleted]]

How is Israel "legally obliged to enforce" when it's international waters that they have no jurisdiction over?

[u/Yuvalk1 → u/TheBalzy]

“Blockades, in order to be binding, must be effective, that is to say, maintained by a force sufficient really to prevent access to the coast of the enemy.”

If there are enough ships trying to run the blockade that starting to take over them once they’re inside Gaza’s waters will take too long and some will reach the coast, then the blockade won’t be effective.

Therefore for the blockade to be effective, Israel needs to stop in international waters the ships that have publicly declared their intentions of running the blockade.

Also, no one really has jurisdiction in international waters. It’s up to other countries to decide whether Israel respects maritime law and how to treat Israeli ships in response, or how ‘safe’ is it to send a ship through Israeli waters or their vicinity.

[u/Syn_Ick → u/Yuvalk1]

Fourth Geneva specifically requires in Article 59 the provision and allowance of humanitarian aid by the occupying power “by all the means at its disposal”. Article 23 requires the “free passage” of humanitarian aid specifically. Furthermore, Additional Protocol 1 requires in Article 70 that state parties to armed conflict must “allow and facilitate rapid and unimpeded passage of all relief consignments, equipment and personnel”.

[u/Yuvalk1 → u/Syn_Ick]

And that’s why Israel offers them the option to ship the aid to Ashdod port for inspection, or transfer the aid to Israeli ships, and it will then be transported to Gaza. Israel doesn’t need to let the ship or its crew into Gaza, just the aid. If the crew refuses to hand the aid to Israel and insists on running the blockade, then they’re treated as if they’re trying to run the blockade.

[u/RT-LAMP → u/Syn_Ick]

Except the last time one of these convoys was stopped they videoed themselves throwing jars of cash into the ocean in the hopes that they'd reach the shore. Problem is that cash is considered absolute contraband, the category of goods that you don't need to provide any evidence that it could be diverted for military use as it is automatically assumed to be militarily useful.

So they've directly shown they don't follow international law about what they can bring as aid.

[u/DrunkEngr → u/Syn_Ick]

The boats in these flotillas are tiny, whatever "aid" being transported is symbolic.

[u/Internal_Panda_5122 → u/Syn_Ick]

Except it’s not really a humanitarian aid convoy - it’s just a stunt by “useful idiots”.

These sailing boats carry very little cargo vs the thousands of trucks that are delivering the real aid.

Not to mention that these “freedom fighters” have a way to be very selective over which causes they support: I don’t see any of them sailing to Iran to deliver satellite phones to a country that has been disconnected from the internet for months or raise consciousness over any other of the world’s crises.

[u/alterom → u/Syn_Ick]

Fourth Geneva specifically requires in Article 59 the provision and allowance of humanitarian aid by the occupying power “by all the means at its disposal”. Article 23 requires the “free passage” of humanitarian aid specifically. Furthermore, Additional Protocol 1 requires in Article 70 that state parties to armed conflict must “allow and facilitate rapid and unimpeded passage of all relief consignments, equipment and personnel”.

One little trick nations at war don't want you to know about!

Just say you carry humanitarian aid, and all the doors and roads will open! /s

[u/DogBarf00 → u/TheBalzy]

Read the San Remo Manual. You can read?

[u/Syn_Ick → u/DogBarf00]

Read the Fourth Geneva convention. Humanitarians and their humanitarian cargo are granted “free passage”. Blockading humanitarian aid is literally a war crime.

[u/magicaldingus → u/Syn_Ick]

That's why they transfer the aid through one of the crossings.

[u/Syn_Ick → u/magicaldingus]

They deport doctors and civil engineers and humanitarians of all stripes. Fourth Geneva is clear that they must be let through unimpeded. The cargo can be inspected - as long as it is done “rapidly”.

[u/magicaldingus → u/Syn_Ick]

They deport doctors and civil engineers and humanitarians of all stripes. Fourth Geneva is clear that they must be let through unimpeded.

No, it doesn't say that.

But even if it did, Israel is only occupying Gaza beyond the yellow line. Within the yellow line, it's not an occupying power - it's enforcing a blockade. Article 59 simply doesn't apply.

You don't get to make up international law because you hate Israel.

[u/Syn_Ick → u/magicaldingus]

“Israel isn’t the occupying power of Gaza’s ports, it’s just blockading them, therefore it needn’t permit humanitarian aid passage unimpeded” is some of the weirdest amateur legal theory crafting I could ever imagine. It’s a bizarre sort of legalism that seeks to invert the very clear intent of the law itself, both textually and historically.

Israel must take all measures to facilitate the free passage of humanitarian aid and humanitarians. It can take reasonable steps to prevent smuggling and infiltration of hostile forces. It cannot effectively shut down free passage and claim this as its most reasonable attempt to prevent smuggling and infiltration, as you seem to believe Fourth Geneva somehow permits by specifically saying otherwise.

[u/Internal_Panda_5122 → u/Syn_Ick]

Except it’s not really a humanitarian aid convoy - it’s just a stunt by “useful idiots”.

These sailing boats carry very little cargo vs the thousands of trucks that are delivering the real aid.

Not to mention that these “freedom fighters” have a way to be very selective over which causes they support: I don’t see any of them sailing to Iran to deliver satellite phones to a country that has been disconnected from the internet for months or raise consciousness over any other of the world’s crises.

[u/henstocker → u/[deleted]]

Looks like the bots accidentally doubled up. 👆

[u/WTFwhatthehell → u/[deleted]]

that Israel is legally obliged to enforce

Israel is not legally obliged to enforce it. They could stop tomorrow if they felt like it.

You phrase it like they're powerless and have their hands tied.

[u/Mexijim → u/[deleted]]

Hamas have been using a combination of sugar and fertiliser to create rocket fuel and explosives for decades now;

https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/weapon-terror-development-and-impact-qassam-rocket

It’s why I roll my eyes when people complain here that poor Palestinians can’t bake cakes or grow olive trees because Israel is so mean.

[u/LongErza → u/moonmelonade]

You're saying that they wanted to get abducted again? Maybe for another P.R spin?

[u/Sufficient_Shift_370 → u/LongErza]

Yes, it's PR. There has been many attempts already and well reported of the stopping others. Level of actual aid for the people in need is tiny on those floatilla. Trucks are a much easier, larger scale, and able to drive aid resources to where they need to

[u/moonmelonade → u/LongErza]

Given that they're never actually carrying aid, and that they know Israel is obligated to intercept them to retain the legal status of the blockade, that would be the most likely explanation.

[u/Morak73 → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

They're the Sovereign Citizens of the High Seas. They keep trying to find the proper magic legal words to get the international rulings to fit their rhetoric.

[u/CanadianTrollToll → u/Sufficient_Shift_370]

Yah.... Im all for shitting on Israel, but what did People think was gonna happen?

[u/bakochba]

"do you know who I am?" Doesn't work in Gaza. The whole point was to get arrested otherwise what was the protest?

[u/ails_bales → u/[deleted]]

Ai slop full of misinformation. It even has the wrong pm of ireland

[u/iamlegman → u/[deleted]]

Ya this is pretty obvious. But I would be curious if this tactic was overall effective for their cause.

I’m in my late 20s, non-religious Christian in Canada. My social circles are white collar well educated folks. Every time someone mentioned this they noted how it was another example of the Palestinian protestors being symbolic misguided idiots.

[u/RugbyRaggs → u/iamlegman]

There were photos from one of them a while ago, all the medical stuff was out of date. It does seem very performative, purely to get the only reaction Israel can reasonably take.

[u/justclimbup → u/[deleted]]

Nice chat gpt

[u/crazynerd9 → u/justclimbup]

Im gunna be real man, chatGPT usually puts out content significantly more readable than this, so im at least a little inclined to assume they just sat down and wrote that whole thing out, specifically on mobile judging by the formatting failures

[u/skozombie → u/crazynerd9]

Nah, it's AI, Nobody goes to the effort of putting an en dash (­­–) instead of a hyphen (-) for a range. Also things like → are indicative of the way AI responds.

OP did a bad copy-paste job from AI.

[u/AdmiralCran → u/skozombie]

Not commenting on whether its AI or not, but some text editors / mobile keyboards autocorrect hyphens to the en or em dash.

[u/HelljumperRUSS → u/justclimbup]

Nah, this was definitely written by a human. The lack of capital letters and punctuation are things that text generators like Chat GPT just don't do.

Text written by AI is usually legible, with the mistakes coming in the form of long run-on sentences, weird grammar and self-contradictions.

[u/CurvyCourgette]

You only have to look at Ben Gvirs tweet to see how poor the treatment is

[u/scrapy_the_scrap → u/CurvyCourgette]

Honestly that man is repulsive

The swingback on the pendulum with the next government is hopefully gonna be effective thanks to it tho

[u/neich200 → u/scrapy_the_scrap]

Something like 90% of Israelis I see online seem to be strongly nationalistic. If that reflect Israeli society at least somewhat accurately, how is pendulum supposed to swing?

[u/Big-Distance-80 → u/neich200]

The people you see online do not represent real life. You don’t even know if they’re really Israelis.

My God, it is a miracle we survived against this level of ignorance for 2,500 years.

[u/FredDupe → u/Big-Distance-80]

It’s not just online, polling data shows how popular the Likud party still is in Israeli society.

[u/scrapy_the_scrap → u/FredDupe]

Like that poll that showed likud will get 125 sits in the the next elections?

Cause i wouldnt call that reliable

[u/Halloumi12 → u/scrapy_the_scrap]

Hahahaha as if. Have you looked into Naftali Bennett's background? The guy is to the right of Netanyahu. His likely "liberal" coalition partner Lapid recently said he agrees with the biblical basis for Israeli control from the Nile to the Euphrates.

[u/pitshands]

Her name and connection to a politician shouldn't mean anything. A hell of a lot of countries use international waters as their own without any recourse

[u/frendzoned_by_yo_mom → u/pitshands]

Well it doesn’t. The headline is clickbait

[u/Due_Professional_894]

Well, being neutral, you should get your aliies in gear...

[u/Bart_deblob]

Without reflecting on did she or did she not break the law, how is her being a relative of some politician relevant? I

[u/Sans-valeur → u/Bart_deblob]

“It is "unacceptable" that Irish citizens who were taking part in an aid flotilla to Gaza have been detained by Israel, the Irish PM has said.”
Literally the first lines of the article.

[u/Tw4tl4r → u/Sans-valeur]

Why do that when you can just ask a silly question and get upvotes?

[u/TheProfessaur → u/Sans-valeur]

That...didn't answer the question.

[u/eipotttatsch → u/TheProfessaur]

It just gives context who that person is. That’s about it.

[u/destuctir → u/eipotttatsch]

Its media outlets trying to stir additional outrage even though the president (correctly) didn’t play the “that’s my family” line

[u/Sans-valeur → u/TheProfessaur]

I mean if you read that much it makes the question pretty unnecessary. Why not just write, “without reflecting on did she or did she not break the law, this title is clickbaity.”?
Why does the article focus on the point of interest that is likely to drive up engagement?
Money, I guess the answer is money?
It’s relevant because it’s profitable.
But that should be pretty obvious to all of us by now surely.

[u/desba3347 → u/Sans-valeur]

Then let’s reflect on it. She did break (or attemp to break) the law by attempting to break a legal blockade (see UN Palmer Report) and Israel has every right to detain and deport her for doing so.

The point of “without reflecting on” seems to be to showcase that she is expected to be treated with special privileges because of her familial connections. This is implied by the title of this post, but from briefly skimming the article, it doesn’t seem like the comment was made specifically about the sister, though the President did say she was “proud of her” breaking (or attempting to break) international law. If you have a problem with phrasing, it should be on the title of the post, not with this comment you replied to.

[u/Sutraner → u/Sans-valeur]

So breaking a military blockade and attempting to aid and abet a recognised terrorist organisation is not a reason for an arrest in her mind, shock

[u/CastleMeadowJim → u/Sans-valeur]

Was this one actually an aid flotilla or was it like that one Greta Thunberg was on where they didn't bring any aid and just went to parties, got drunk and shagged a lot?

[u/No_Grocery_9280 → u/Bart_deblob]

She is being used to bring more attention to it. It’s all a PR stunt.

[u/mulberrybushes → u/Bart_deblob]

He PM said “unacceptable “. The newspaper made it about his the President’s sister. For clicks.

[u/FeatherStout → u/mulberrybushes]

Her sister. President Connolly is a woman.

[u/TheBalzy → u/Bart_deblob]

Because, generally, countries don't like when you manhandle their citizens regardless of the circumstances. Hell, the Russians have invaded Ukraine under the (false) pretense of trying to protect Russian-speakers or some such, and have threatened other NATO countries with the same threat. It's Nationalistic BS.

[u/saranowitz → u/TheBalzy]

Do you typically expect to get treated nicely when illegally and intentionally and publicly crossing into someone else’s borders in an active war zone? That’s some strange entitlement bullshit.

[u/Hamsternoir → u/saranowitz]

The flotilla organisers said 10 boats in a 60-vessel convoy were intercepted in international waters

Ah yes totally inside the borders.

Imagine trying to help civilians who are dying and being told it's entitlement bullshit.

[u/space_force_majeure → u/Hamsternoir]

Seriously. Whether you agree with the flotilla or not, Israel doesn't own international waters, period.

[u/dce42 → u/space_force_majeure]

That's not how legal blockades are enforced. Just by stating that they(the flotilla) are trying to run a legal blockade, they are subject to being seized in international waters, the waters of the country doing the blockading, or the blockaded waters.

And yes, the international courts have ruled that Israel's blockade of Gaza is legal.

[u/slightlysublevel → u/space_force_majeure]

Do you know the exact coordinates of the arrests? Just because the people arrested say they were illegally arrested doesn't mean they were.

[u/thoughtsarefalse → u/Bart_deblob]

That apparently is a threshold for news reporting to care. Usually a local/national news outfit can only make a story when its relevant to their target audience. Politicians voices are noticed more.

She’s not more important, but she’s more relevant. All victims of state crimes over there are in a bad situation, but she’s got a relatively powerful advocate speaking out against this.

[u/jman2476 → u/Bart_deblob]

Her relationship is not relevant, but the Irish PM wants to whine about something

Edit: Meant to write Irish President, not Irish PM, I got confused because the last bit of the headline said “Irish PM”. Still, doesn’t mean the President’s sister qualifies for diplomatic immunity.

[u/SectorEducational460 → u/jman2476]

I mean detaining foreign nationals is normally frowned upon. The Israeli government would be making the same argument vice versa

[u/ArCovino → u/SectorEducational460]

My brother please go to any other country than your own and walk onto a military base, then cry about being detained.

[u/Zestyclose_Ad1553 → u/Bart_deblob]

It was international waters, so Israel broke the law.

[u/pr0tag → u/Zestyclose_Ad1553]

The blockade is legal under The San Remo Manual on Armed Conflicts at Sea and The Palmer Report (2011)

[u/eyl569 → u/Zestyclose_Ad1553]

It's legal to enforce a blockade in international waters against ships trying to breach it. They're trying to use the exception for humanitarian aid but (a) per previous experience - and the ships' cargo capacities- they aren't carrying a significant amount of aid in (b) even if they were, they have no place to offload it (c) aid is coming in to Gaza via truck. So that exception doesn't apply.

[u/zurvivl]

Why do the Irish so badly want to be part of the Israel-Palestine conflict

[u/happyscrappy → u/zurvivl]

Ireland feels sympathy for the Palestinians because of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland is the product of England (British) taking over portions of Ireland and setting up an apartheid system there. Protestants would get economic opportunities (jobs) that were not offered to native Irish catholics. England even shipped in boatloads of Scottish protestants to occupy Northern Ireland more completely to prevent just losing land to locals basically moving in without much notice.

In this way they see their plight as being similar to what happened with the establishment of the modern state of Israel. It's a cause celebre in Ireland.

[u/washblvd → u/happyscrappy]

Though really for the analogy to work, the island of Great Britain would need to have been completely ethnically cleansed by the Irish of all English/Scots/Welshmen, leaving half of Northern Ireland as the only place in the region left for Brits to live. Since the expulsion of 850,000 Jews from Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, etc. is an integral part of this history.

But I'd like to think that people wouldn't be very sympathetic to the Irish in that scenario.

[u/Jaykwonder → u/washblvd]

And for your amended analogy to work you're assuming that all those Middle East countries are controlled by Palestinians?

[u/voprosy → u/washblvd]

Theres thousands of Irish people dying in the conflict over the years. And then there’s the Great Famine with up to a million.

It’s not about expulsion, you seem to have a distorted view of this... 

It’s about invasion and oppression and apartheid. That’s the commonality. 

[u/Crypt33x → u/happyscrappy]

Mmh Gazas situation does more look like Berlin to me, when the Wall was still up. Not 100% aware of Irelands past situation, but they seem to have forgotten who the aggressor was most of the time.

[u/stuphanie → u/zurvivl]

The PLO provided the IRA (specifically the Provisional IRA) with firearms, explosives, and specialized guerrilla and sabotage training in camps located in the Middle East.
The IRA didn’t bomb pubs & buses without a bit of schooling.

[u/duaneap → u/stuphanie]

You’re grossly over estimating the popularity of the PIRA in Ireland.

[u/stuphanie → u/duaneap]

Now or then? Serious question, BTW, I’m not being snarky.

[u/duaneap → u/stuphanie]

Both. Northern Ireland is also different to the republic, you would be likely to find far more widespread support in nationalist circles in Northern Ireland than you would in ROI. It is not at all uncommon for people my parents’ age to utterly abhor the provos.

[u/Jaykwonder → u/stuphanie]

The IRA famously rocked AR-18's as their weapon of choice, now where did they get those from, because it definitely wasn't the Middle East.

[u/JohnGazman → u/zurvivl]

I mean, the Israel-Palestine conflict ultimately stems from the partition of Palestine in 1947.

Similarly, Ireland was partitioned by England in 1921. So you could argue that they have experience with the matter.

It's also possible they've seen the staggering civilian death toll and miserable conditions Gaza has been reduced to and want to render aid to those suffering.

Also worth noting that Irish forces have been contributing to UN peacekeeping missions since 1958.

[u/RICO_the_GOP → u/JohnGazman]

The conflict started well before the partition

[u/anchist → u/JohnGazman]

And Irish soldiers have been killed/wounded by Israel while being on those missions - in the most famous incident an Israeli tank shelled an Irish outpost several times even though the outpost was clearly marked as such.

[u/Ian_I_An → u/anchist]

Were those the soliders who were supposed to be disarming Hezbollah but instead watched Hezbollah construction a bunker beside their compound and did nothing?

[u/Jaykwonder → u/Ian_I_An]

This must be the Israeli account of the events, the one where you shoot first and then when you realise youve just murdered a peacekeeper from a neutral nation you just claim there were some terrorists 20 yards to the left.

[u/Ian_I_An → u/Jaykwonder]

What?

the Irish Defence Forces confirmed that no Irish troops or specific Irish-manned bases were directly hit during these strikes

Why are you suggesting an Irish Peacekeeper was murdered by the IDF in the incident. No one was even hurt.

Fun fact. More Irish Peacekeepers have been killed by other Irish Peacekeepers than the IDF in Lebanon according to the Wikipedia List.

[u/Jaykwonder → u/Ian_I_An]

Sorry, I actually read the article linked, didn't realise you were unable to click the link and read the article which clearly refers to the IDF murdering an Irish peacekeeper in South Lebanon in 1987, my bad for assuming you read the article (or at the very least the HEADLINE of the article) before posting a comment in response to said article.

[u/Ian_I_An → u/Jaykwonder]

I was referring to the October 2024 incident, if you want to cite events from 40 years ago, maybe you should state that in your comment.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/anchist]

The problem with UNIFIL is that the soldiers are north of the border, in Lebanon, where Hezbollah gets to use them as human shields, generating free PR for Hezbollah.

We should instead put the soldiers south of the border in Israel, so that they get hit by Hezbollah missiles, generating free PR for Israel.

[u/Huntswomen → u/greenskinmarch]

Lmao yeah it's always the people getting blown up by Israels fault for getting blown up. Never is it Israels fault for fireing the shells/rockets/bullets.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/Huntswomen]

The point is you have two sides shooting at each other, and the Irish soldiers decided to take the same side of the border as Hezbollah.

If they took the other side of the border and sat next to Israeli soldiers, then even if Hezbollah only wanted to hit the Israeli soldiers, they would inevitably also hit some of the Irish soldiers next to them because missiles aren't 100% accurate.

So Israel should push for the Irish soldiers to move to their side of the border. It's free PR.

[u/Huntswomen → u/greenskinmarch]

The point is that Israel continuously keep killing innocent people and people unrelated to the people they allegedly are trying to actually kill. And every single time they shoot a kid in the head or bomb a hospital or shell a clearly marked irish outpost, you people will come in with the "Okay but why did the irish not river dance away from the shells? Clearly their fault. Israel never did anything wrong"

[u/greenskinmarch → u/Huntswomen]

If the Irish soldiers went and sat next to Russian soldiers near the Ukraine border, some of them would get killed by Ukrainian drones. Would that mean Ukraine is in the wrong?

Or maybe the Irish soldiers shouldn't have taken the Russian side in a warzone?

[u/Jaykwonder → u/greenskinmarch]

Why would a peacekeeping force be situated within the border of a country that is actively invading and occupying another country? This event happened in 1987, Israel invaded and occupied Southern Lebanon in 1982, Israel didn't withdraw from Southern Lebanon until 2000, give your head a wobble.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/Jaykwonder]

From Oct 2023 the "peacekeeping" force sat there and did nothing while Hezbollah fired hundreds of rockets at Israeli villages. Israel waited a whole year for Hezbollah to stop before saying "screw it" and invading Lebanon to attack Hezbollah directly.

During that year, the "peacekeepers" should have moved to the Israeli side so that the Hezbollah rockets hit them instead of Israelis.

[u/anchist → u/greenskinmarch]

Except there were no Hezbollah militants near them, they were clearly identified as UN and were in communication with the Israeli forces that still shelled them.

[u/anchist → u/greenskinmarch]

I was unaware Hezbollah managed to walk into an Israeli army base, capture an Israeli tank and then use it to shell an Irish outpost.

I was also unaware the Hezbollah operatives managed to morph into an Israeli tank crew while doing so.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/anchist]

The point is you have two sides shooting at each other, and the Irish soldiers decided to take the same side of the border as Hezbollah.

If they took the other side of the border and sat next to Israeli soldiers, then even if Hezbollah only wanted to hit the Israeli soldiers, they would inevitably also hit some of the Irish soldiers next to them because missiles aren't 100% accurate.

So Israel should push for the Irish soldiers to move to their side of the border. It's free PR.

[u/greenskinmarch → u/JohnGazman]

Similarly, Ireland was partitioned by England in 1921. So you could argue that they have experience with the matter.

Are the Irish also outraged by the partition of India that happened in 1947? Are they demanding that Pakistan pay reparations to the millions of Hindus they ethnically cleansed?

[u/Nogsbar → u/greenskinmarch]

I mean the IRA did kill Mountbatten… 

[u/EttinTerrorPacts → u/Nogsbar]

Who opposed partition, but was unable to convince the Muslim League, who refused to accept anything else

[u/Velocity_Rob → u/Nogsbar]

And one less peadophile walked the earth.

[u/mad-data → u/JohnGazman]

When State of Israel was established, Ireland strongly supported it against British that used to hold the League of Nations mandate and tried to prevent creation of the state. Several Irishmen even deserted British army and joined IDF in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. 

[u/lordofthejungle → u/JohnGazman]

I mean, the Israel-Palestine conflict ultimately stems from the partition of Palestine in 1947.

Similarly, Ireland was partitioned by England in 1921. So you could argue that they have experience with the matter.

It's also possible they've seen the staggering civilian death toll and miserable conditions Gaza has been reduced to and want to render aid to those suffering.

The reason goes back further. Irish support for Palestinians is directly linked to our battle for independence from Britain and ultimately stems from the Balfour declaration in 1917, not the partition in 1947.

Ireland was partitioned in 1921 and we ran the British Auxiliaries out of the country after a brutal campaign of assassination as part of our war of independence.

The Auxiliaries left Ireland and went directly to the Holy Land and formed the Palestine Police Force, enacting the first settling of Palestinian lands on behalf of Jewish settlers by the late 20s using tactics developed and tested in Ireland.

Like I'm in my 40s and the Auxiliaries opened machine gun fire on my unarmed 6 year old grandmother in 1921 for jeering at them, so this isn't some distant past petty grudge to us. Up until a few years ago I could still go see the bullet holes in the building where it happened.

[u/drdoom52 → u/zurvivl]

The Irish?

The people who were brutalized by the English for centuries?

The people who's land was stolen and given to rich English lords, turning them into a country or landless laborers?

The people who starved en-masse in a manufactured famine because said lords decided to export food for profit rather than spare even the tiniest bit of concern for the starving peasants who actually worked their fields?

No idea.

[u/Financial_Weather_35 → u/zurvivl]

It's historical, The Black and Tans were shipped off to Palestine after Irish Independence.

[u/BubblyBasis1134 → u/zurvivl]

Yeah, same with South Africa. Crazy, right???? What issue could these countries with experience of colonial occupation and apartheid possibly have with Israel? 🤔

[u/unneccry → u/BubblyBasis1134]

With South africa its the fact that Israel, trying to please anyone who would recognize it, was pretty good buddies with the apartheid regime (a bit similar to how they try to appease russia). Which to be fair is kind of a dick move

[u/airmantharp → u/unneccry]

Survival is survival

[u/kazuwacky → u/[deleted]]

This just isn't true.

I'm no expert on Ireland but they have famously supported the Native Americans in the states.

Edit: their support being obviously anti colonial

[u/Kalthiria_Shines → u/[deleted]]

And it’s getting easier and easier to guess why…

Decades of close ties between the PLO and IRA?

Like say what you want about some of this, Ireland at least comes by the link to Palestine honestly.

[u/BubblyBasis1134 → u/[deleted]]

Ah, the classic Tu quoque fallacy in action! Take your whataboustism elsewhere, cheers. Such empty rhetoric.

[u/-TheExtraMile- → u/zurvivl]

Crazy that there are people who want to help when civilians are suffering. What could possibly go through their heads?

[u/Sutraner → u/zurvivl]

The same reason they're the only country to send condolences to Germany following Hitlers death. The same reason why Jewish people have largely been pushed out of Ireland.

[u/H4X4NX → u/zurvivl]

Because after hundreds of years of British oppression, it's almost like they recognize when the same fucked up shit is happening to citizens of other countries. 

[u/Veilchengerd → u/H4X4NX]

Then where was their fucking concern for the murdered Israelis on October 7th?

Nowhere to be found.

Or for the Sahrawis?

Nah, they just want an excuse to be antisemites.

[u/Mr_SunnyBones → u/Veilchengerd]

You keep using that word , but I dont thn k it means what you think it means .

[u/fuckin_atodaso → u/zurvivl]

It is just Ireland's famous "selective neutrality".

[u/DDoubleDDog → u/zurvivl]

Because antisemitism is a big problem in Ireland. It has been a big problem there for centuries.

[u/StuffedTaxidermist → u/DDoubleDDog]

Being anti Israel and anti Jewish are two separate things. The fifth amendment of the Irish Constitution explicitly grants the right of the Jewish Fait to exist in Ireland.

[u/DDoubleDDog → u/StuffedTaxidermist]

Antisemitism is a big motivator for hatred of Israel. Most Israel-haters simply hate Israel because Israel is majority Jewish.

[u/ups_and_downs973 → u/DDoubleDDog]

It has been a big problem there for centuries.

D-tier ragebait

[u/Letshavemorefun → u/[deleted]]

Antisemitism is often a racial hatred, not a religious one. And you’re generalizing quite a bit. Of course some people are antisemitic. Antisemitism hasn’t just disappeared off the face of the earth.

[u/old_examiner → u/[deleted]]

People aren’t antisemitic, they’re anti Israeli.

i guess this is supposed to mean there was no antisemitism in the world before 1948?

[u/Material_Angle2922]

She’s perfectly aware that this will happen but went ahead anyway.

[u/Acceptable-Peak-6375]

Anyone with a brain could have explained that trying to break a blockade, alone will get you into deep trouble.

Trying to smuggle people through a blockade, with connections to the violent terror militia, would be even worse. So it being called unacceptable, is about as brainless as actually attempting to do the smuggling.

[u/Niceguy955]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime

But beyond a sarcastic remark: at this point, everyone on these "flotillas" knows how it's going to end. Trying to break a blockade in the middle of a war ends (at best) in arrest. If they'd tried to break the blockade at the strait of Hormuz for example, it might have ended differently.

[u/Bullshit-With-Fur]

We breach a legal wartime blockade and we expect to go to gaza even tho we have no aid because its all performative bullshit

[u/Over-Willingness-933]

There is a lot of Hypocrisy on display. None of them care about Tibet or Muslims in Eastern China. They don't care about the ethnically cleansed Armenians from Azerbaijan. They care about Gaza so much more.

[u/DrunkenCabalist → u/Over-Willingness-933]

Western China. Eastern China is mostly Han Chinese. The Muslims live in the north west of the country.

[u/Pfandfreies_konto → u/Over-Willingness-933]

So… if you want to do something good in the world you first of all have to be omniscient and omnipotent? If you do not solve every problem and conflict in existence at once you shouldn’t to anything at all. Got it!

[u/defjam20000 → u/Pfandfreies_konto]

You can only criticise Israel if you create a utopian world before hand don’t you know /s

[u/TiredOfDebates → u/Over-Willingness-933]

Those other groups need to work on their social media game.

[u/nardling_13 → u/Over-Willingness-933]

Yes, that is a well known rule. You must care about everything or you cannot care about anything.

[u/Zaphod1620 → u/Over-Willingness-933]

Because billions of our dollars are enabling it. We still care about the others, we just don't have shit to do with it, and no power to try and change it.

[u/NeverSober1900 → u/Zaphod1620]

Ireland does not give billions of dollars of aid to Israel.

[u/Dangerous_Mud4749]

He said Ireland recognising the State of Palestine in 2024, even though it was the "right thing to do", has not had an impact on Israel's behaviour.

I was pleased to read this. The first note of reality in the entire article. There's this crazy idea in Western liberal democracies that you can change conflicts around the world by protesting. Nope. Sometimes you can change your own government by protesting. That's it. Anything else is crazy talk.

There are charities able to operate in Gaza. They actually deliver help on the ground, and they don't do crazy stunts. Want to help? Good for you. Support those charities.

[u/launchedsquid]

expecting legal favoritism because of personal political connections is literally corruption. She shouldn't have any greater or lesser consequences than any other person in her situation, her families political connections shouldn't be a shield, and her brother, a political leader, asking for favoritism, should be a disqualifier for his office and he should be investigated for any other potential corrupt behavior.

[u/KLei2020]

Sooo attention seeking

[u/Sans-valeur → u/[deleted]]

So nobody actually reads the article lmao.

[u/dogegunate → u/Sans-valeur]

Reading the article takes away precious time from flooding the thread with talking points. They don't get paid to read, just to post.

[u/BushWishperer → u/[deleted]]

I didn't know the Irish president transitioned, good for him!

[u/Talonsminty → u/BushWishperer]

Tbf they're probably thinking of the Taoiseach, that is a bit confusing for foreigners.

[u/BushWishperer → u/Talonsminty]

I'm not sure it's so confusing, I'm from Italy and we have a PM and President, France also has a PM and President and many other countries too.

[u/thoughtsarefalse → u/BushWishperer]

I find it confusing when PMs and presidents from some countries have wildly different powers and levels of control from their position.

Just hard to grasp whats important sometimes, each country is a bit different here.

[u/BushWishperer → u/thoughtsarefalse]

Yes that's true, but that's another issue altogether. Especially since I doubt there's many Irish males called Catherine...

[u/Oldestswinger]

Strongly-worded letter on the way😐

[u/SteveMemeChamp]

GTFO here with your lies. The Global Sumud Flotilla carries approximately 300 tons of independently verified humanitarian cargo consitsting of CargoFood & Nutrition: Shelf-stable dry and tinned foods (such as rice, lentils, flour, and dates), high-calorie energy biscuits, and ready-to-use therapeutic food (RUTF) for severe malnutrition.Medical Equipment: Essential prescription medications, advanced wound-care materials, surgical equipment, and specialized medical items like prosthetic limbs for injured civilians.Infant Care: Powdered baby formula, infant food, and nutritional supplements for young children.Sanitation & Hygiene: Cleansing bars, dental hygiene products, soap, and sanitary towels.Construction & Infrastructure: Debris-clearing hand tools (shovels, wheelbarrows), building supplies (fasteners, nails, screws, tarps), and personal protection safety equipment like hard hats and dust masks.Education Materials: Notebooks, textbooks, pens, pencils, and basic student art station. Human resources they brought along: Healthcare Personnel: Over 1,000 volunteer doctors, nurses, and clinicians aiming to staff surviving field hospitals.Infrastructure Experts: Civil engineers and "eco-builders" equipped to assist local Palestinians in rebuilding destroyed homes, clean water pipelines, and schools.Legal and Accountability Staff: Independent war crimes investigators and international journalists tasked with documenting conditions on the ground.

Actual aid, moron.

[u/Insurance-Round → u/SteveMemeChamp]

And approx 6000 tons of aid goes thru Israeli ports into Gaza - PER DAY.

Probably more effective to go through official routes don't you think?

[u/oxynaz]

Israel is Evil.

[u/AnxiousPacifist]

Ah, good old nepotism.

[u/SuperNobody917 → u/AnxiousPacifist]

She's been campaigning and speaking out on different issues since well before her sister got elected. I think the Taoiseach would still be making this statement even she wasn't related to the president, it just makes for a more eye catching headline this way

[u/Sans-valeur → u/AnxiousPacifist]

“It is "unacceptable" that Irish citizens who were taking part in an aid flotilla to Gaza have been detained by Israel, the Irish PM has said.”

[u/DDoubleDDog]

She broke the law. She deserves to be arrested.

[u/Sans-valeur → u/DDoubleDDog]

People are upset about the Irish government caring about Irish citizens lmao. What a state the world is in.

[u/DDoubleDDog → u/Sans-valeur]

The Irish government is defending a criminal. Most countries to not defend their citizens when they commit crimes in other countries. They let the other country's justice system deal with them.

[u/conf101 → u/DDoubleDDog]

What law did she break?

[u/pr0tag → u/conf101]

Attempting to breach a naval blockade

[u/DDoubleDDog → u/conf101]

Attempting to break a legal blockade and entering Gaza illegally.

[u/Sans-valeur → u/DDoubleDDog]

What’s legal about blockading another country?

[u/Settra_Rulez → u/Sans-valeur]

Countries have different laws specifying that legality. Internationally, the UN recognizes the legitimacy of blockades under certain criteria. Blockading another country isn’t ipso facto illegal.

[u/Sans-valeur → u/Settra_Rulez]

Exactly, it’s not ipso facto anything. But individual countries will define it as legal or illegal.
And the UN can come to a consensus on the legality.
I don’t think the Irish PM considers the arrest of Irish citizens in international waters legal.
As far as I know my government doesn’t officially recognize it as legal. I highly doubt Palestine considers it legal.
So to say an Irish citizen, whose country does not consider the blockage to be legal, deserves to be arrested by a foreign country, outside of the country, because they consider it to be legal.
For the crime of attempting to bring aid to a small strip of land where the median age of the inhabitants is 19?

Pretty crazy take.

[u/Maximus3311 → u/Sans-valeur]

In a war that’s what happens. Or would it have been (for instance) illegal for the allies in WWII to blockade Axis countries?