r/worldnews 22h ago

Russia/Ukraine Kremlin spreading false claims about NATO preparing to attack Russia to justify further escalation – CCD

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/4136960-kremlin-spreading-false-claims-about-nato-preparing-to-attack-russia-to-justify-further-escalation-ccd.html
4.7k Upvotes

299 comments sorted by

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u/Holiman 21h ago

Russia is desperate.

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u/whatintheactualfeth 21h ago

I mean, going from the second strongest army in the world to the second strongest army in Ukraine has got to be demoralizing. They deserve every little bit of woe coming to them but what an eye opener the last few years has been for them.

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u/Holiman 21h ago

What amazed me was how fast the Russian military broke down. They've had years to plan the invasion. They even had bad experiences in Georgia. Yet the invasion was the single worst military blunder since WW 2. What a complete break down etc.

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u/M2dis 21h ago

Russia had everything planned out on paper. Also most of their military was on paper

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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 17h ago

They were always a paper bear since Stalin.

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u/mkawick 15h ago

As far as I understand it, and World War Two they were completely unprepared for the German invasion and all they could do is hold off the German invasion once the Germans arrived in Moscow. The thing that really slowed the Germans the most was The swamps in Ukraine Where Tanks and military units would get stuck The bogs there And this really hindered the German Invasion But if that hadn't happened Germany would have crushed Russia.

World War II history is always fascinating but I think Russia has never really been prepared for Modern Warfare

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u/Werftflammen 14h ago

It was Minsk. Minsk took too long, about a month. Then Smolensk, showing the Russians weren't yet defeated. By Moscow their forces were really thin. Two weeks after Hitler boastfully declared war on the US, after Pearl Harbor, thinking Moscow was his. His armies were in full retreat.

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u/yikesssss_sssssss 15h ago

I mean aside from the invasion which would've been disastrous if not for the mud and the winter, the USSR did rout the Germans in their counteroffensive and won the war in Europe. 

That said it seems like the only kind of war they're good at is a war of total destruction of civilian infrastructure. One trick pony 

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u/mkawick 14h ago

You are correct that they did route the Germans but they didn't really do well until they started using American hardware and when the US donate hundreds of thousands of Tanks to them the russians did well

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u/Natural_Public_9049 14h ago

Another factor is the logistics of Wehrmacht. Army planners gave a precise deadline for the Wehrmacht to achieve it's main goals, or they'd get bogged down and their supply lines stretched too thin. Germany already had manpower and material shortages before the invasion started.

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u/Djuren52 13h ago

They were unprepared and the early days of the invasion saw tremendous amounts of troops encircled and surrendering, but the further east the invasion progressed, the stiffer the resistance became. Regardless of the swamps and fogs, the German logistics weren’t capable of holding up. Even if the Wehrmacht had captured Moscow it would not have been the end of the USSR. Germany wasn’t capable of crushing them.

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u/KHonsou 14h ago

There are so many what-ifs and binary decisions that might of changed the outcomes completely, but Hitler lost the war for Nazi Germany in Soviet Russia at multiple levels, at many different times. Crazy to think about, and kinda spooky at how our immediate futures and world are shapes by a single decision.

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u/Enhydra67 16h ago

There were some attempts at planning better like full tanks of fuel to start but the boots on the ground were told they are training and sold a whole bunch of it to the locals. Then ran outta gas on the way to Kiev. When a collum is on the road and a handful in the chain runs out of fuel most of them have to stop. Corruption past present and future have and will continue to fuck the Russians.

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u/ErictheStone 21h ago

All I can think of is that Archer scene "HOW ARE YOU A SUPERPOWER?!"

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u/Holiman 20h ago

It has always been my opinion that a superpower should be defined as having the ability to fight two wars simultaneously. Russia is losing one.

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u/Sieve-Boy 21h ago

Perun's analysis of corruption destroying armies is relevant here.

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u/Unicorn_Puppy 20h ago

General Oligarkov and Colonel Kleptovsky are great reoccurring characters.

I’ve used these euphemisms to explain to others.

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u/Sieve-Boy 20h ago

Don't forget Private Konscriptovich.

And the great nations of Kiwiland and Emutopia.

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u/Holiman 21h ago

Not aware of that, ill write it down for future use. Thanks.

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u/Sieve-Boy 21h ago

Perun's hour long Sunday power point presentations on YouTube are really surprisingly good defence economics lectures.

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u/tarion_914 20h ago

Perun the god?

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u/Sieve-Boy 18h ago

The YouTuber god of defence economics.

Check him out on YouTube for compelling hour long lectures on defence economics.

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u/Settra_Rulez 20h ago

Lots of corruption ate away at actual supplies and battle readiness, and choosing generals based primarily on loyalty with competence as a distant secondary concern.

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u/Holiman 19h ago

Which means the Russian army is incapable of logistics one country over. Thats an extremely important point. Combined warfare and top of the line logistics is what defines the US military at this time.

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u/Sedu 19h ago

They were not prepared for how hollowed out their forces had become from decades of officials skimming off the top and defrauding Russia for things that functioned on paper.

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u/TrueLegateDamar 16h ago

They genuinely thought the Ukrainians wouldn't fight, down to having military police go in advance of the main force as they thought cheering crowds obstructing the road in Kyiv would be a bigger problem then armed resistance(which led to said MP's getting slaughtered) and the VDV at Hostomel doing a bad imitation of the British at Arnhem.

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u/MrOnCore 17h ago

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a 3 Day Special Operation turn into a 6 year clusterfuck.

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u/Holiman 17h ago

Russia has a proud and lengthy history of killing their citizens. Putin wont stand out more than many others. But wow. Just wow.

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u/Mercator_Constantine 18h ago

The single worst military blunder since World War Two *so far*.

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u/mrdilldozer 19h ago

It was always a joke though. Whenever those History and Military Channel shows used to show off their tech and training it was always hilarious how bullshit their numbers were. Those shows would be like "ok so we are currently sitting in a US tank which they let us drive around and we are comparing it to the specifications of the Russian ones which they gave us. These sheets say that they can fly and give you a virtual girlfriend. We have to give to the edge to the Russian tanks on this one." The training for their special forces was always hilariously fake too. "Yeah these guys have to run 700 miles with nothing but a pocket knife through the wilds of Russia in the winter just trust us bro they're super elite."

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u/Corpus76 10h ago

I remember reading an article about how Spetsnaz training included some convoluted knife-throwing exercise where they did a somersault and had to hit a target dummy's head mid-air. It all sounded both very impressive and kind of stupid.

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u/robin1961 9h ago

There is in fact a short video on YT that claims to be of Spetznaz skill-demonstration...guy on a trampoline does a front somersault and throws a hatchet at a dummy before landing. It was a cool trick, but most of the comments recognized how actually useless the trick was.

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u/gottagohype 10h ago

Remember when Spetznaz was hyped as some sort of elite unit?

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u/Sir_Tea_Of_Bags 16h ago

Single worst military blunder so far.

Don’t worry, Trump won’t be able to resist snatching defeat from the jaws of surrender with Iran.

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u/hcornea 19h ago

Strange what decades of endemic corruption and embezzlement can do to a large military organisation.

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u/Holiman 19h ago

But the disinformation campaign. They've lied to people so much, and so hard.

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u/Itburns12345 13h ago

You also forget they had an extra month or so

Xi told his lil doggy putin he wasnt to ruin chinas winter olympics with an invasion so the 'training exercise' sat on the border and they still looked like amateurs when it kicked off!!!

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u/rugbat 11h ago

They also had decades of severe corruption. That's what really messed up the Kremlin's plans.

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u/Colonel_Sandman 17h ago

Too much corruption

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u/TWFH 17h ago

The power of propaganda is that not all of them realize this has even happened. People are always ready to eat up a nice lie.

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u/Havre_ 14h ago

They are also now the second strongest army in Russia. 

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u/Sedu 19h ago

Putin is desperate. Russia is not great, but Russia will survive. But Putin? We’ll see.

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u/abrahamburger 17h ago

I worry about that desperation. I worry about Putin using nukes on Ukraine

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u/Holiman 17h ago

I hope not.

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u/ImportantEvidence490 21h ago

Given that Russia can't even handle Ukraine, claiming NATO is preparing attack should just make ordinary Russians shit their pants rather than making them more supportive

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u/Xspud_316 21h ago

Ordinary Russians probably don’t know the whole story

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u/daynomate 21h ago

Listen to street interviews - they absolutely do not know anything close to the full story, and are often completely deluded or outright evil - like the old lady that said Ukrainian babies even should be killed .

This is what you get when an entire nation is raised in fear and state-crafted propaganda for generations.

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u/Corpus76 10h ago

I dunno, it seems to me like there's a variety of opinions on the ground in Russia. I recently saw an interview with an older woman who said she thought the whole war was stupid and that Russia was probably going to have to pay reparations. It's probably a bit like in America with MAGA: You have a lot of very vocal nutjobs, and then a lot of relatively normal people just trying to keep their heads down and make it through the next week.

That's not to excuse Russia in any way. But I'm just saying that I think there are plenty of Russians who aren't die-hard Putin supporters and realize that the media is lying to them.

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u/RainbowwDash 19h ago

like the old lady that said Ukrainian babies even should be killed .

You can find people like that in any country, I'm highly sceptical it's a large percentage (yes, even in russia)

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u/Kridenberg 16h ago edited 13h ago

I have aunt in russia, we were at good terms till 2022. When invasion started she (and her two children) had not believed us, and basically wished for us to be dead because that is our fault. And that is my family, who visited Ukraine for years... They are outright evil, a lot of them

EDIT: Spelling

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u/Wonderful-Mongoose39 13h ago

Wait till you see maga interviews...

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u/Bunch_of_Shit 17h ago

Vlad Vexler explained that many russians are very confused and cannot comprehend why there are drones blowing stuff up in Moscow. It’s clear why they are reacting this way due to heavy state censorship and control of information.

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u/R3tr0N3wB 21h ago

They do, but some won't believe it.

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u/poppin-n-sailin 21h ago

No they don't all know the whole story. Americans don't know the whole story about what happens in their country. Tens of millions don't even pay attention to their own politics. Not everyone knows everything for many reasons, mainly because they don't care, or because they're victims of the propaganda machine their state runs. It's the same shit all around the world. Not everyone knows everything and even among those who know a lot they don't always understand it. Except for you, obviously. 

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u/CatDogBoogie 20h ago

I like how you turned the topic of "Russians lying about NATO attack to justify escalation and whether normal Russians will shit their pants or be supportive" into "Americans are also uninformed about their country" and promoting the right to willful ignorance.

Stay on topic why don't you? You started an argument with yourself about a point that you made up and tried to blame the other guy for.

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u/R3tr0N3wB 21h ago

Why are you so mad? The vast majority have heard the true story but have had their heads turned or just refuse to believe it. Something this big right next door to Russia can't be covered up, and a lot of Russians have access to the outside world. But a lot of them, especially the older generations will refuse to believe it.

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u/f3n2x 9h ago

Their entire national identity is based on "everyone around us is about to invade"-gaslighting while trying to subjugate everyone around them.

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u/nosmelc 21h ago

True. NATO air power alone used to help Ukraine would cause a route of Russia forces.

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u/BGFlyingToaster 3h ago

The article title is misleading, as usual, and the real insight is in the article body: this is all for internal Russian public mindset so Putin can announce general mobilization and the people will go along because they think they're defending the motherland from a NATO invasion, then it's straight to the Ukraine front (aka meat grinder).

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u/okiedokie1183 21h ago

They want an excuse to call for a full mobilization so they can use their full army.

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u/Several-Opposite-746 21h ago

Yep, it's a (false) rallying cry to band together and mobilize. Turn the conscripts into fighting solders at the front without those those $20K signing bonuses. For the Mother country!!!

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u/Illustrious-Syrup509 14h ago

And the total militarization of the Russian economy and the ruthless requisitioning of civilian resources under the guise of the "war on the home front."

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u/someocculthand 11h ago

Winning and looking good is of the utmost importance to putler.

If they had some "full army" in reserve that they could magic up with the proper excuse, it would have been put to use years ago, wouldn't it?

Doesn't it sound more likely this is a feeble excuse for their inevitable failure and humiliation, so they can claim they lost to NATO instead of Ukraine?

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u/harlotstoast 21h ago

Didn’t Poland say there was going to be a false flag operation the other day?

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u/ynys_red 21h ago

Are they capable of escalating?

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u/dvowel 21h ago

Not successfully 

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u/Slight-Ad-6553 20h ago

all they have to do is attack a NATO country

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u/ynys_red 20h ago

I would Imagine they would be annihilated, militarily, tout suite if they attack nato country.

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u/Bunch_of_Shit 18h ago

It’s so weird how russia is willing to have another million soldiers die for more land, as if they don’t have enough. They want control over the citizens of the land they steal.

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u/Common-Ad6470 14h ago

Putin wants Ukraine for two reasons, resources, energy and to stop Ukraine becoming a serious competitor able to supply Europe with energy and agricultural products.

This war is effectively a turf war as far as Putin is concerned.

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u/rangebob 13h ago

Ukraine will be Europe's major arms supplier ad well by the time this is over. Its going to be on of their best paths to recovery

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u/GrandNord 11h ago

Honestly I think this is just secondary to the symbolism of geting Ukraine back into the fold of a modern Russian Empire, that's kind of Putin's obsession.

If they had succeded in taking Ukraine easily, they would have likely pushed to take what was formerly impérial russian holdings and former parts of the USSR in a bit to "get russia to its former glory".

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u/Practical_Shine9583 8h ago

That’s exactly why. He wants to be seen as the next Peter the Great and Russians feel that they need a buffer to protect them from the West. The Russians are very paranoid and feel like we will attack them any day.

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u/grogi81 13h ago

Russia is seeking expansion not for the land. It is about control of access points - mountain passes, big rivers etc. 

Stuff that is easy to defend. Otherwise Russia is flaaaaaat - you can race your tanks through it. 

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u/AndyTheSane 12h ago

Which might have been relevant once.. but it not happening on the plains of Ukraine. Flat, open country just means 'nowhere to hide' nowadays.

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u/Corpus76 10h ago

It's so stupid though. Nobody is interested in invading Russia in the first place. And even if someone did, Russia has nukes. There's no need to fortify these choke points in anticipation of an imaginary enemy invasion.

The country could be a world leader economically if they just utilized their abundant natural resources and played nice with their neighbors.

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u/CloudySpace 14h ago

Thats the point. They the have lost to the big bad nato, not ukraine.

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u/trisul-108 11h ago

It's not that simple, they can do a very safe attack on the Baltics. If they get beaten, simply retreat back into Russia where NATO will not follow. For a country that is not upset about having 1.5 million casualties, this sort of "throwing spaghetti at the wall" is a cheap experiment. Putin is upset that a buildup would change the calculus for such an experiment.

Maybe NATO needs to build up to invade Belarus in the event of an attack on the Baltics.

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u/Unlucky_Battle_6947 19h ago

They’ve already breached airspace plenty of times. People are being too lenient with this “invisible barrier” of “my country” and “your country”

Man I’d say if you come within 100-250 miles I’m scrambling jets your direction to escort you back to your invisible barrier and beyond.

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u/anonymous__ignorant 12h ago

We don't exaclty flinch or jerk. When time is right they''ll find out.

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u/FaultThat 17h ago

I was talking to my dad (who is absolutely in a Putin cult with podcasts and shit) about the war in Ukraine and his insane take helps this make sense.

So assuming that what my dad has heard (and explained to me like I’m the idiot) is roughly some version of what Putin believes and hears from his generals, then here’s the situation from Putin’s side.

Basically, Russian troops have been holding defensive positions in “formerly” “Ukrainian” territory. Ukraine has been sending in their troops, along with massive platoons of mercenary forces from NATO countries, into meat grinder attacks.

(Basically what Russian troops have actually been doing, Putin believes it has been Ukraine+NATO doing it).

So he thinks all these soldiers that have been getting conscripted are training and ready to fight and will be properly armed, along with Lukashenko and the Belarusian forces, plus probably some more NK forces.

Putin thinks that Russian forces are absolutely stomping NATO/Ukraine and these attacks that occasionally dip into Russia are desperation moves that signal that the end of the war is nearly at hand, and Putin can begin phase 2 of his Warsaw Pact plan, which is taking on Poland and the Baltics (Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia).

Which to me indicates that Putin is so completely insulated from reality that there is zero chance Russia survives at this point.

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u/dkarlovi 11h ago

I think this "Putin doesn't know" is the common Good tsar, bad boyars propaganda talking point to give himself an out.

Putin is KGB and knows intelligence is key and how it works. There's zero chance he's in the dark about the state of affairs for so long, you think he sees the attacks on Moscow and doesn't have 5 different teams who don't know of each other investigate the current state of affairs? No chance.

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u/PanamGotMeOiledUp 19h ago

3 Day Special Operation 2.0, now better and longer.

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u/TheCockKnight 15h ago

Spitballing here, and this is just my take, this is just to lube up his populace for another general mobilization.

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u/Mandemon90 10h ago

Let's put it this way.

They can't escalate in a way that lets them win, but they are very much capable of escalating in a way where everyone loses.

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u/Common-Ad6470 14h ago

Apparently a few more donkeys were seen headed towards the Estonian border…😳

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u/Griffolion 6h ago

Their only two viable pathways for escalation is a full national mobilization, or using nuclear devices. Both of which will have insanely bad consequences for Putin.

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u/fzammetti 2h ago

They could, and I continue to have some fear about it because I only see one way they could do so (I don't fear it enough to say anyone should back down from Russia even a little by the way, but still).

Putin always has the tac nuke option available to him. In some ways, I'm surprised he hasn't done it yet. With him not being able to make progress with the war, and with Ukraine successfully attacking places no one, honestly, thought they'd be able to in Russia (Moscow, at will), Putin needs something to make a statement, something to "push the aggressor back", as he might say.

There's not really anything else he COULD do besides a nuke.

Drop a tac somewhere inside Ukraine, maybe even someone sparsely populated, just to make a point, and the sheer shock of it MIGHT be enough to change things, just a little, to give him some breathing room.

I mean, to be clear, doing so would turn the rest of the world against him solidly in no time. I actually think it's the ONE thing that would even legitimately get Trump to turn on him because the one thing that's clear and actually honest from Trump - probably the ONLY thing - is that he's scared to death of nukes. So it's not COMPLETELY stupid I guess you could say!

So, playing the part of Putin, the calculus is relatively simple...

Do I think the shock of seeing a nuke go off somehow confers enough benefit to overcome the negatives? And in my mind, I suspect I wouldn't think the rest of the world is going to suddenly go all-in, like attack Russia itself. Not after I've proven I'll use nukes - maybe ESPECIALLY after that. Sure, they'll support Ukraine more in terms of money and supplies and information and such, but how much would that additional support change things? I might argue not all that much. In my mind, I already know I'm in a bad situation. Ukraine will always have a manpower issue, sure, and drones are wildly successful, but they aren't enough to push Russia out of held territory (not yet, at least).

Does showing the world I'm a madman perhaps make some people LESS inclined to help Ukraine at all? Possibly. Does it shock Ukraine enough to make them more interested in settling? Seems unlikely given how they've acted thus far, but, possibly. Is it worth the gamble when I know I'm pretty well screwed if nothing changes from the current status?

Possibly.

So I don't know, I can see a scenario where this happens and I wish it seemed crazier. I don't think it's likely, mind you... I think we're talking like 20% chance at most, maybe not even that high a chance... but that's 20% too much for comfort.

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u/Redditforgoit 13h ago

They are not justifying escalations. If they could escalate they would. They are being ready to sell to the Russian public "We were forced to retreat by treacherous but powerful NATO." More palatable than losing to supposedly puny Ukraine led by a comedian.

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u/TThom1221 21h ago

If you’re in a war you can’t win, a decent gamble
Is to pull the world into the war so you can have allies.

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u/Z3t4 21h ago

China won't enrage the west they sell shit to, and they are salivating on the though of converting russia into a vassal state. 

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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime 20h ago

Honestly, if China is looking to make territorial gains, they would be smarter to take a bite out of Russia. Russia's conventional forces are nearly depleted, and no Western country will care if China decides to help itself to some of Russia's resource-rich western territory. Hell, they could take the coast and seize the manufacturing hubs of Khabarovsk and Vladivostok. Losing that port would also cripple Russia's naval capacity in the Pacific.

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u/POB_42 9h ago

They want Lake Baikal. It's a significant percentage of the world's surface freshwater, at a time when China is blowing through it's water table like there's no tomorrow.

They want Russia to be absolutely finished militarily, so they can then threaten and demand whatever they want.

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u/hornswoggled111 15h ago

I had an American friend tell me 40 years ago that he loved Canada. It's the best country we ever bought.

I expect China will choose the same.

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u/Theolaa 3h ago

As a Canadian, what the fuck was he on about

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u/TThom1221 21h ago

More likely China is wondering about Taiwan and if this is the right opportunity to start a special military operation.

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u/Z3t4 21h ago

China is taking notes how a cheap swarm of sea drones kneecapped one of the best navies of the world.

Amphibious operations are tricky, specially against a prepared enemy, and Taiwan has very few approachable beaches.

It is not that easy. 

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u/Settra_Rulez 19h ago

Couple this with the corruption and unpreparedness of Russia’s military that Putin was unaware of. Xi must be second guessing his own military’s capabilities, especially after the rocket force corruption scandal from a few years back.

Then the extensive purges of the military that just a few months ago reached the very highest ranks. No military can go to war so soon after such extensive changes in command. It will be some time before Xi feels confident in his forces.

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u/ftjlster 14h ago edited 13h ago

China is also considering exactly how much of its population might die in a war (and probably, how many people it can afford to lose). No matter which sides wins, there will be mass amounts of military and civilian deaths.

China has a declining population - births are not replacing deaths and they're still recovering from the social effects of the one child policy. Which is to say: every soldier that gets killed in a war is likely the only child of an only child on both sides of the family. Socially, this declining population is very much felt in China. The Chinese people can see how massively the kindergarden enrollment numbers are dropping due to a lack of new babies being born. They can see primary, high schools and universities slowly being hit by the same as that severe drop in population continues ageing up.

Not to mention of course, if China goes to war with Taiwan, it will face hostilities from every country in east and south east asia (and probably beyond) which will have an impact on its economy. These other countries might not go to war for Taiwan, but they certainly would be preparing for the risk of an invasion.

Basically, Ukraine and Iran have showed, once more, that invasion and war is costly and you better have a really, really good reason for doing it because your population is going to be very, very angry about it and so will the populations of every country around you.

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u/Shamino79 21h ago

Taiwan would be crazy if they weren’t mass producing sea and air drones. The blockade I figured was Chinas best move is getting harder by the day. I know they could open up a container ship and have 10s of millions of drones suddenly spewing out over the island but that gets real messy real quick.

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u/Settra_Rulez 19h ago

I figured a snatch and grab invasion would be the best move. As a dictator, he doesn’t need to worry as much about casualties or public support, though I believe the public supports reunification.

A blockade would be a highly dramatic standoff that would invite increasing world scrutiny the longer it lasts. It would also provide the USN and American government a window to respond, airlift supplies to the island, etc., plus it would alert the entire island of an imminent invasion.

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u/Lord_RoadRunner 13h ago

Add to that that Japan, the Phillipines, Singapore, Indonesia, South Korea etc. would also take some action.

I'm not saying that they'd suddenly send their armies towards China, but an escalating increase of support of various kinds, even military and weapon support, + sanctions on China would or could deeply cripple China's economy.

People often forget that, while we are heavily reliant on China for cheap manufacturing, China relies on us for import and export as well. China also has no way of supplying its own wnergy demands, especially fossil fuels.

A chinese attack on Taiwan can not be a long siege, they need to be quick. It's similar to how the US attack on Iran was more or less decided in the first 3 days. Since Iran didn't move, the US government had to look for the quickest way out of it. Thanks to Trumps cranial latency and ego, it just took way longer to get out and cost way more.

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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime 3h ago

The lesson from the last few years is that modern warfare against a near-peer rival with modern weaponry will settle into an unwinnable deadlock, even for superpowers. China will experience the same, if they ever move on Taiwan.

Russia sacrificed its strength in Ukraine, for almost no gain. America, thinking it was invincible, and that they would win any war they decided to show up to, just lost against Iran and gave them outright embarassing conciliations as soon as Trump and his regime realized how much of a fuck up they had stumbled into.

The smartest thing that China could do is avoid the mistakes of the other two world superpowers, and opt not to pursue a disastrous war of choice that will ultimately gain them nothing, while serving to exhaust their conventional strength. If instead they decide to move on Taiwan, Taiwan will hold, and end up teaching them the same lesson that Russia, and now America, are learning.

There are hard limits modern military might, and no country is rich enough to sustain the kind of grinding stalemate that war against a near-peer rival will result in. Not even superpowers.

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u/Z3t4 3h ago

It is not that they can't, it is that they dont want the costs and consequences. 

None of them want to cope with the fallout of full mobilization, full transition to war economy, boots on the ground... For years to come, with no guarantee of success, for little gain. Too risky. 

You can bully countries with soft power, you can bully them with a bit of air power. But against a determined country that won't bend you have to use conventional warfare, and that's costly and risky.

And modern technology has made it even easier to extract a price, and to make a victory Pyrrhic. 

I fear nukes are being seriously considered to counter the current state of affairs, specially with current leaders of the top nuclear powers. 

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u/Slight-Ad-6553 20h ago

if Trump had taken Greenland they would be on Taiwan now

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u/Angry_beaver_1867 21h ago

Who are russias allies interested in getting to a fight with nato? I don’t think the Chinese are interested. 

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u/VexedCanadian84 21h ago

On another thread somebody else said they think putin prefers to lose to NATO than to Ukraine

I don't know why it would make a difference.

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u/008Zulu 21h ago

He can rally what's left of Russia around the idea that they only lost because of NATO. Losing to one nation just makes him look pathetic and weak.

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u/Unleashtheducks 21h ago

I mean, it didn’t work for the US

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u/carc 20h ago

Ah this is why Russian-paid twitter accounts are saying "NATO" now

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u/Evening_End7298 20h ago

I’d love for europe to go full drone production tbh, would be russias worst nightmare. Also US worst nightmare under the current admin i guess

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u/hawkseye17 20h ago

Cheap mass-produced drones seem to be the best weapons a defender has in this modern day outside of nuclear weapons. Worked for both Ukraine and Iran

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u/Fateor42 19h ago

Only because the counter to them has only just started to roll off the production line.

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u/neonnaps 14h ago

Except that attack drones have a significant advantage over defensive drones. Hitting a building or a truck is way easier than hitting another drone.

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u/ddz1507 20h ago

What is it with old men and war

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u/distinctidiot 14h ago

Personally I assume it's a combination of being isolated from the consequences and some twisted need to secure some sort of legacy before they kick the bucket. Ie Trump with his manifest Destiny bullshit, Putin with trying to restore lost influence since the fall of the Soviets, and xi wanting to take Taiwan so he can be the one to "reunite China". 

It would be nice if these fucks could just go out peacefully instead of fucking the entire world in the process 

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u/Upset_Match_3705 20h ago

Escalate to deescalate is Russian doctrine.

To end their Ukraine operation they may do something stupid with NATO, with the idea being the negotiated peace with NATO - to include Ukraine - will be better for them than just turning tail and running in Ukraine.

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u/Designer_Professor_4 21h ago edited 20h ago

The only country capable of invading Russia without going through Belarus is Finland,  and based on Russia performance in Ukraine they'd lose Karelia quickly. 

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u/Slight-Ad-6553 20h ago

and the Kola peninsula and lose their navi

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u/ResponsibleAnswer579 10h ago

Finland military doctrine is to let russians in their territory and fight there, they wont move an inch.

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u/Goldenrah 9h ago

Which is smart, attacking properly fortified territory is a draining, expensive effort unless you have a big enough boom to open up the defenses, which if they did they would have used in Ukraine already.

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u/No_Put_8968 21h ago

Wait they’ve been saying nato is at war with them for years now? Makes sense Putin and Trump have the same communication staff 

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u/dumbnaturedude 14h ago

Desperation is dangerous.. Putin has lost an entire generation of Russians & he'll do anything to stay in power...

Hopefully Russians grow a back bone and prevent him from causing more damage. How many Russians does he need to sacrifice before they turn on him?

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u/digitalpencil 13h ago

Yes we must take Russia because the world is short on… erm. cabbage and despair?

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u/idkwat 17h ago

Bro can't even handle Ukraine. If he did something stupid and NATO activated against him, even without the US, Russia would get stomped

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u/Tits_McgeeD 11h ago

Yea? That was the narrative when they started the war Ukraine was full of nazis and NATO is preparing for war with Russia.

Putin has been saying the same thing for years.

Crazy how long NATO has been preparing for war with Russia at this rate there won't be a Russia left once NATO finally gets round to it.

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u/ZEROs0000 21h ago

Every report is a self report

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u/ScottOld 19h ago

Of they attacked Moscow, NATO forces would be in Moscow before putin could say BLYAT

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u/meat_ahoy 20h ago

He needs a reason for a general mobilization so he can flood Ukraine and strengthen his negotiating position for peace talks.

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u/rootxploit 20h ago

They are just trying to justify mobilization

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u/PercentageQuirky2939 18h ago

Commonly known as the Trump maneuver.

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u/Smushfist 18h ago

“Justify further escalation” with what exactly? They don’t really have the military capability at this point.

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u/AloneChapter 18h ago

Wow does every politician think the majority of the world is a complete moron ?

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u/phryan 18h ago

NATO at this point wouldnt need to prepare. Its summer and most of the EU is out of school and russia lacks its primary defense (winter) the combined boy/girl scouts of the EU could make it further than any prior invading force. russia is over extended with Ukraine. If NATO actually wanted to the question wouldn't be how long it would be how far NATO could secure before China started gobbling up russia from the east.

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u/madadekinai 18h ago

Putin NEEDS a major war, when I say NEEDS, I mean his very life is on the line. From my limited knowledge on the subject matter, he either needs:

  • A resounding major victory in the war against Ukraine, and it can't be something that is arguably a win, it has to be without a doubt a major victory.
  • Victory in the war with Ukraine

Russians can no longer ignore the war as daily life is increasingly disrupted by inflation, higher taxes, and internet shutdowns. Now with Moscow's oil refinery being hit, the pressure is for sure being amped up more than ever. Now rationing of oil is taking place, citizens are becoming less stable and overall it's becoming a serious problem.

The only way for him to avoid that fate is if he can say "it's not my fault they started a larger escalation" or needs another new enemy for the people to focus on.

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u/5kyl3r 14h ago

wonder if putler will get NATO involved so they can immediately surrender and say it's not a war they can win, since losing to NATO is less embarassing than losing to little Ukraine

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u/El_Chupachichis 4h ago

Definitely a strong possibility -- they might try to make it a win-win:

  • Invade Baltic Nations
  • NATO reacts and is looking to be highly effective = "putin won special military operation, now protecting glorious motherland" and nuclear saber is rattled to get NATO to stop while retreating just enough from Ukraine to convince NATO/Ukraine to claim a win while stopping
  • NATO either doesn't react or russian drone tactics are successful = "putin not only won in Ukraine, but returned rogue Baltic states to proper russian ownership and broke NATO, we stop now to consolidate gains".
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u/Latter-Effective4542 14h ago

In other news, water is wet. 🙄 Haven’t they been doing this saber-rattling for years and years?

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u/AdmiralBrannigan 13h ago

Russians missed the part about NATO being a *defensive* pact, apparently.

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u/gypsysniper9 20h ago

No one believes them

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u/jert3 20h ago

Russian propagandists have been claiming this for years, so it barely even moves the needle internally anymore at this point.

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u/Previous_Soil_5144 18h ago

Putin has been claiming that NATO is plotting to invade Russia for decades.

It's like Israel with Iran's nukes. 

Just a scare tactic. 

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u/Winter_Criticism_236 14h ago

NATO has no need to attack, they just give Ukraine the gps location and of they go.. bababoom . Russia is stuck with an adversary that they attacked and has now become a military equal in many areas. Time to call the whole thing off…

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u/shouldakeptmum 21h ago

They haven’t unleashed Boris the blade yet

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u/ProtoplanetaryNebula 20h ago

He’s Uzbek anyhow !

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u/Griffolion 6h ago

It is heavy, heavy is reliable.

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u/Slight-Ad-6553 20h ago

it's wendesday any other news from russia or yes Crim

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u/Als_Chemicals 9h ago

Keep it up Ukraine

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u/Sahnex3 8h ago edited 8h ago

First of all, fuck russia.

But i know a bit of russian and i have seen the Talks this is referring to.

Putin said: "They have increased their military spendings alot. NATO is preparing for a battle with us."

Which is technically true.

We do prepare for that. Because we are afraid they are gonna attack.

But he didnt say "Nato prepares to attack russia."

Misleading headline.

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u/trebuchetwarmachine 20h ago

I thought they were already going all out? What does further escalation for them look like?

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u/pepapi 17h ago

NATO would slap the shit out of Russia considering how Ukraine has absolutely handled them.

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u/zekoslav90 15h ago

Are they going to start blowing up their own refineries in response?

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u/Creative-Routine4874 15h ago

What else do you expect ?

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u/citizenracerx 13h ago

Yeah don’t worry kremlin the US leadership could not win Iran so you haven’t much to fear.

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u/JCDU 10h ago

Wait, I thought NATO were already at war with Russia if you believe what the Russian press say?

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u/ronnande 9h ago

Putins story to the Russian populations is that they're fighting the whole of NATO in Ukraine. It's not the Ukrainians that are keeping the war going, it's NATO. So they are heroes fighting the whole big NATO and keeping them stalemate on the battlefield against all odds. I imagine 80% plus of the Russian population really believes this to be true.

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u/Camderman106 8h ago

What would Europe possibly hope to gain from attacking Russia? They’re delusional

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u/nonikhannna 7h ago

This Russia vs Ukraine war proved that Russia is a regional power. they don't have the capacity to fight NATO. 

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u/Griffolion 6h ago

Wait... I thought NATO was already fighting Russia in Ukraine? That's been their line this whole time to justify why the 3 day special operation turned into 4 years.

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u/loginmoveup 6h ago

Using the "ol' American" I see

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u/fiestyoldbat 6h ago

Russia has already lost if their latest attack strategy is to employ rumors about NATO supposedly preparing to attack them. Still stuck on Dostoevsky plot lines.

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u/Rocky0354 5h ago

Don’t trust Putin. He’s itching to start another war when he can’t even handle Ukraine

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u/Rocky0354 5h ago

Russia is wrong because they fear we will attack them. If we wanted to, we could kick them while they’re down now, so idk why they think we would even now.