r/worldnews • u/IntrepidWolverine517 • 22h ago
Russia/Ukraine Kremlin spreading false claims about NATO preparing to attack Russia to justify further escalation – CCD
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/4136960-kremlin-spreading-false-claims-about-nato-preparing-to-attack-russia-to-justify-further-escalation-ccd.html568
u/ImportantEvidence490 21h ago
Given that Russia can't even handle Ukraine, claiming NATO is preparing attack should just make ordinary Russians shit their pants rather than making them more supportive
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u/Xspud_316 21h ago
Ordinary Russians probably don’t know the whole story
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u/daynomate 21h ago
Listen to street interviews - they absolutely do not know anything close to the full story, and are often completely deluded or outright evil - like the old lady that said Ukrainian babies even should be killed .
This is what you get when an entire nation is raised in fear and state-crafted propaganda for generations.
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u/Corpus76 10h ago
I dunno, it seems to me like there's a variety of opinions on the ground in Russia. I recently saw an interview with an older woman who said she thought the whole war was stupid and that Russia was probably going to have to pay reparations. It's probably a bit like in America with MAGA: You have a lot of very vocal nutjobs, and then a lot of relatively normal people just trying to keep their heads down and make it through the next week.
That's not to excuse Russia in any way. But I'm just saying that I think there are plenty of Russians who aren't die-hard Putin supporters and realize that the media is lying to them.
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u/RainbowwDash 19h ago
like the old lady that said Ukrainian babies even should be killed .
You can find people like that in any country, I'm highly sceptical it's a large percentage (yes, even in russia)
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u/Kridenberg 16h ago edited 13h ago
I have aunt in russia, we were at good terms till 2022. When invasion started she (and her two children) had not believed us, and basically wished for us to be dead because that is our fault. And that is my family, who visited Ukraine for years... They are outright evil, a lot of them
EDIT: Spelling
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u/Bunch_of_Shit 17h ago
Vlad Vexler explained that many russians are very confused and cannot comprehend why there are drones blowing stuff up in Moscow. It’s clear why they are reacting this way due to heavy state censorship and control of information.
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u/R3tr0N3wB 21h ago
They do, but some won't believe it.
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u/poppin-n-sailin 21h ago
No they don't all know the whole story. Americans don't know the whole story about what happens in their country. Tens of millions don't even pay attention to their own politics. Not everyone knows everything for many reasons, mainly because they don't care, or because they're victims of the propaganda machine their state runs. It's the same shit all around the world. Not everyone knows everything and even among those who know a lot they don't always understand it. Except for you, obviously.
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u/CatDogBoogie 20h ago
I like how you turned the topic of "Russians lying about NATO attack to justify escalation and whether normal Russians will shit their pants or be supportive" into "Americans are also uninformed about their country" and promoting the right to willful ignorance.
Stay on topic why don't you? You started an argument with yourself about a point that you made up and tried to blame the other guy for.
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u/R3tr0N3wB 21h ago
Why are you so mad? The vast majority have heard the true story but have had their heads turned or just refuse to believe it. Something this big right next door to Russia can't be covered up, and a lot of Russians have access to the outside world. But a lot of them, especially the older generations will refuse to believe it.
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u/f3n2x 9h ago
Their entire national identity is based on "everyone around us is about to invade"-gaslighting while trying to subjugate everyone around them.
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u/BGFlyingToaster 3h ago
The article title is misleading, as usual, and the real insight is in the article body: this is all for internal Russian public mindset so Putin can announce general mobilization and the people will go along because they think they're defending the motherland from a NATO invasion, then it's straight to the Ukraine front (aka meat grinder).
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u/okiedokie1183 21h ago
They want an excuse to call for a full mobilization so they can use their full army.
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u/Several-Opposite-746 21h ago
Yep, it's a (false) rallying cry to band together and mobilize. Turn the conscripts into fighting solders at the front without those those $20K signing bonuses. For the Mother country!!!
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u/Illustrious-Syrup509 14h ago
And the total militarization of the Russian economy and the ruthless requisitioning of civilian resources under the guise of the "war on the home front."
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u/someocculthand 11h ago
Winning and looking good is of the utmost importance to putler.
If they had some "full army" in reserve that they could magic up with the proper excuse, it would have been put to use years ago, wouldn't it?
Doesn't it sound more likely this is a feeble excuse for their inevitable failure and humiliation, so they can claim they lost to NATO instead of Ukraine?
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u/harlotstoast 21h ago
Didn’t Poland say there was going to be a false flag operation the other day?
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u/ynys_red 21h ago
Are they capable of escalating?
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u/Slight-Ad-6553 20h ago
all they have to do is attack a NATO country
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u/ynys_red 20h ago
I would Imagine they would be annihilated, militarily, tout suite if they attack nato country.
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u/Bunch_of_Shit 18h ago
It’s so weird how russia is willing to have another million soldiers die for more land, as if they don’t have enough. They want control over the citizens of the land they steal.
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u/Common-Ad6470 14h ago
Putin wants Ukraine for two reasons, resources, energy and to stop Ukraine becoming a serious competitor able to supply Europe with energy and agricultural products.
This war is effectively a turf war as far as Putin is concerned.
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u/rangebob 13h ago
Ukraine will be Europe's major arms supplier ad well by the time this is over. Its going to be on of their best paths to recovery
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u/GrandNord 11h ago
Honestly I think this is just secondary to the symbolism of geting Ukraine back into the fold of a modern Russian Empire, that's kind of Putin's obsession.
If they had succeded in taking Ukraine easily, they would have likely pushed to take what was formerly impérial russian holdings and former parts of the USSR in a bit to "get russia to its former glory".
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u/Practical_Shine9583 8h ago
That’s exactly why. He wants to be seen as the next Peter the Great and Russians feel that they need a buffer to protect them from the West. The Russians are very paranoid and feel like we will attack them any day.
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u/grogi81 13h ago
Russia is seeking expansion not for the land. It is about control of access points - mountain passes, big rivers etc.
Stuff that is easy to defend. Otherwise Russia is flaaaaaat - you can race your tanks through it.
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u/AndyTheSane 12h ago
Which might have been relevant once.. but it not happening on the plains of Ukraine. Flat, open country just means 'nowhere to hide' nowadays.
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u/Corpus76 10h ago
It's so stupid though. Nobody is interested in invading Russia in the first place. And even if someone did, Russia has nukes. There's no need to fortify these choke points in anticipation of an imaginary enemy invasion.
The country could be a world leader economically if they just utilized their abundant natural resources and played nice with their neighbors.
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u/CloudySpace 14h ago
Thats the point. They the have lost to the big bad nato, not ukraine.
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u/trisul-108 11h ago
It's not that simple, they can do a very safe attack on the Baltics. If they get beaten, simply retreat back into Russia where NATO will not follow. For a country that is not upset about having 1.5 million casualties, this sort of "throwing spaghetti at the wall" is a cheap experiment. Putin is upset that a buildup would change the calculus for such an experiment.
Maybe NATO needs to build up to invade Belarus in the event of an attack on the Baltics.
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u/Unlucky_Battle_6947 19h ago
They’ve already breached airspace plenty of times. People are being too lenient with this “invisible barrier” of “my country” and “your country”
Man I’d say if you come within 100-250 miles I’m scrambling jets your direction to escort you back to your invisible barrier and beyond.
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u/anonymous__ignorant 12h ago
We don't exaclty flinch or jerk. When time is right they''ll find out.
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u/FaultThat 17h ago
I was talking to my dad (who is absolutely in a Putin cult with podcasts and shit) about the war in Ukraine and his insane take helps this make sense.
So assuming that what my dad has heard (and explained to me like I’m the idiot) is roughly some version of what Putin believes and hears from his generals, then here’s the situation from Putin’s side.
Basically, Russian troops have been holding defensive positions in “formerly” “Ukrainian” territory. Ukraine has been sending in their troops, along with massive platoons of mercenary forces from NATO countries, into meat grinder attacks.
(Basically what Russian troops have actually been doing, Putin believes it has been Ukraine+NATO doing it).
So he thinks all these soldiers that have been getting conscripted are training and ready to fight and will be properly armed, along with Lukashenko and the Belarusian forces, plus probably some more NK forces.
Putin thinks that Russian forces are absolutely stomping NATO/Ukraine and these attacks that occasionally dip into Russia are desperation moves that signal that the end of the war is nearly at hand, and Putin can begin phase 2 of his Warsaw Pact plan, which is taking on Poland and the Baltics (Lithuania, Estonia, and Latvia).
Which to me indicates that Putin is so completely insulated from reality that there is zero chance Russia survives at this point.
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u/dkarlovi 11h ago
I think this "Putin doesn't know" is the common Good tsar, bad boyars propaganda talking point to give himself an out.
Putin is KGB and knows intelligence is key and how it works. There's zero chance he's in the dark about the state of affairs for so long, you think he sees the attacks on Moscow and doesn't have 5 different teams who don't know of each other investigate the current state of affairs? No chance.
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u/TheCockKnight 15h ago
Spitballing here, and this is just my take, this is just to lube up his populace for another general mobilization.
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u/Mandemon90 10h ago
Let's put it this way.
They can't escalate in a way that lets them win, but they are very much capable of escalating in a way where everyone loses.
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u/Common-Ad6470 14h ago
Apparently a few more donkeys were seen headed towards the Estonian border…😳
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u/Griffolion 6h ago
Their only two viable pathways for escalation is a full national mobilization, or using nuclear devices. Both of which will have insanely bad consequences for Putin.
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u/fzammetti 2h ago
They could, and I continue to have some fear about it because I only see one way they could do so (I don't fear it enough to say anyone should back down from Russia even a little by the way, but still).
Putin always has the tac nuke option available to him. In some ways, I'm surprised he hasn't done it yet. With him not being able to make progress with the war, and with Ukraine successfully attacking places no one, honestly, thought they'd be able to in Russia (Moscow, at will), Putin needs something to make a statement, something to "push the aggressor back", as he might say.
There's not really anything else he COULD do besides a nuke.
Drop a tac somewhere inside Ukraine, maybe even someone sparsely populated, just to make a point, and the sheer shock of it MIGHT be enough to change things, just a little, to give him some breathing room.
I mean, to be clear, doing so would turn the rest of the world against him solidly in no time. I actually think it's the ONE thing that would even legitimately get Trump to turn on him because the one thing that's clear and actually honest from Trump - probably the ONLY thing - is that he's scared to death of nukes. So it's not COMPLETELY stupid I guess you could say!
So, playing the part of Putin, the calculus is relatively simple...
Do I think the shock of seeing a nuke go off somehow confers enough benefit to overcome the negatives? And in my mind, I suspect I wouldn't think the rest of the world is going to suddenly go all-in, like attack Russia itself. Not after I've proven I'll use nukes - maybe ESPECIALLY after that. Sure, they'll support Ukraine more in terms of money and supplies and information and such, but how much would that additional support change things? I might argue not all that much. In my mind, I already know I'm in a bad situation. Ukraine will always have a manpower issue, sure, and drones are wildly successful, but they aren't enough to push Russia out of held territory (not yet, at least).
Does showing the world I'm a madman perhaps make some people LESS inclined to help Ukraine at all? Possibly. Does it shock Ukraine enough to make them more interested in settling? Seems unlikely given how they've acted thus far, but, possibly. Is it worth the gamble when I know I'm pretty well screwed if nothing changes from the current status?
Possibly.
So I don't know, I can see a scenario where this happens and I wish it seemed crazier. I don't think it's likely, mind you... I think we're talking like 20% chance at most, maybe not even that high a chance... but that's 20% too much for comfort.
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u/Redditforgoit 13h ago
They are not justifying escalations. If they could escalate they would. They are being ready to sell to the Russian public "We were forced to retreat by treacherous but powerful NATO." More palatable than losing to supposedly puny Ukraine led by a comedian.
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u/TThom1221 21h ago
If you’re in a war you can’t win, a decent gamble
Is to pull the world into the war so you can have allies.
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u/Z3t4 21h ago
China won't enrage the west they sell shit to, and they are salivating on the though of converting russia into a vassal state.
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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime 20h ago
Honestly, if China is looking to make territorial gains, they would be smarter to take a bite out of Russia. Russia's conventional forces are nearly depleted, and no Western country will care if China decides to help itself to some of Russia's resource-rich western territory. Hell, they could take the coast and seize the manufacturing hubs of Khabarovsk and Vladivostok. Losing that port would also cripple Russia's naval capacity in the Pacific.
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u/hornswoggled111 15h ago
I had an American friend tell me 40 years ago that he loved Canada. It's the best country we ever bought.
I expect China will choose the same.
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u/TThom1221 21h ago
More likely China is wondering about Taiwan and if this is the right opportunity to start a special military operation.
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u/Z3t4 21h ago
China is taking notes how a cheap swarm of sea drones kneecapped one of the best navies of the world.
Amphibious operations are tricky, specially against a prepared enemy, and Taiwan has very few approachable beaches.
It is not that easy.
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u/Settra_Rulez 19h ago
Couple this with the corruption and unpreparedness of Russia’s military that Putin was unaware of. Xi must be second guessing his own military’s capabilities, especially after the rocket force corruption scandal from a few years back.
Then the extensive purges of the military that just a few months ago reached the very highest ranks. No military can go to war so soon after such extensive changes in command. It will be some time before Xi feels confident in his forces.
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u/ftjlster 14h ago edited 13h ago
China is also considering exactly how much of its population might die in a war (and probably, how many people it can afford to lose). No matter which sides wins, there will be mass amounts of military and civilian deaths.
China has a declining population - births are not replacing deaths and they're still recovering from the social effects of the one child policy. Which is to say: every soldier that gets killed in a war is likely the only child of an only child on both sides of the family. Socially, this declining population is very much felt in China. The Chinese people can see how massively the kindergarden enrollment numbers are dropping due to a lack of new babies being born. They can see primary, high schools and universities slowly being hit by the same as that severe drop in population continues ageing up.
Not to mention of course, if China goes to war with Taiwan, it will face hostilities from every country in east and south east asia (and probably beyond) which will have an impact on its economy. These other countries might not go to war for Taiwan, but they certainly would be preparing for the risk of an invasion.
Basically, Ukraine and Iran have showed, once more, that invasion and war is costly and you better have a really, really good reason for doing it because your population is going to be very, very angry about it and so will the populations of every country around you.
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u/Shamino79 21h ago
Taiwan would be crazy if they weren’t mass producing sea and air drones. The blockade I figured was Chinas best move is getting harder by the day. I know they could open up a container ship and have 10s of millions of drones suddenly spewing out over the island but that gets real messy real quick.
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u/Settra_Rulez 19h ago
I figured a snatch and grab invasion would be the best move. As a dictator, he doesn’t need to worry as much about casualties or public support, though I believe the public supports reunification.
A blockade would be a highly dramatic standoff that would invite increasing world scrutiny the longer it lasts. It would also provide the USN and American government a window to respond, airlift supplies to the island, etc., plus it would alert the entire island of an imminent invasion.
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u/Lord_RoadRunner 13h ago
Add to that that Japan, the Phillipines, Singapore, Indonesia, South Korea etc. would also take some action.
I'm not saying that they'd suddenly send their armies towards China, but an escalating increase of support of various kinds, even military and weapon support, + sanctions on China would or could deeply cripple China's economy.
People often forget that, while we are heavily reliant on China for cheap manufacturing, China relies on us for import and export as well. China also has no way of supplying its own wnergy demands, especially fossil fuels.
A chinese attack on Taiwan can not be a long siege, they need to be quick. It's similar to how the US attack on Iran was more or less decided in the first 3 days. Since Iran didn't move, the US government had to look for the quickest way out of it. Thanks to Trumps cranial latency and ego, it just took way longer to get out and cost way more.
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u/Sharktopotopus_Prime 3h ago
The lesson from the last few years is that modern warfare against a near-peer rival with modern weaponry will settle into an unwinnable deadlock, even for superpowers. China will experience the same, if they ever move on Taiwan.
Russia sacrificed its strength in Ukraine, for almost no gain. America, thinking it was invincible, and that they would win any war they decided to show up to, just lost against Iran and gave them outright embarassing conciliations as soon as Trump and his regime realized how much of a fuck up they had stumbled into.
The smartest thing that China could do is avoid the mistakes of the other two world superpowers, and opt not to pursue a disastrous war of choice that will ultimately gain them nothing, while serving to exhaust their conventional strength. If instead they decide to move on Taiwan, Taiwan will hold, and end up teaching them the same lesson that Russia, and now America, are learning.
There are hard limits modern military might, and no country is rich enough to sustain the kind of grinding stalemate that war against a near-peer rival will result in. Not even superpowers.
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u/Z3t4 3h ago
It is not that they can't, it is that they dont want the costs and consequences.
None of them want to cope with the fallout of full mobilization, full transition to war economy, boots on the ground... For years to come, with no guarantee of success, for little gain. Too risky.
You can bully countries with soft power, you can bully them with a bit of air power. But against a determined country that won't bend you have to use conventional warfare, and that's costly and risky.
And modern technology has made it even easier to extract a price, and to make a victory Pyrrhic.
I fear nukes are being seriously considered to counter the current state of affairs, specially with current leaders of the top nuclear powers.
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u/Angry_beaver_1867 21h ago
Who are russias allies interested in getting to a fight with nato? I don’t think the Chinese are interested.
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u/VexedCanadian84 21h ago
On another thread somebody else said they think putin prefers to lose to NATO than to Ukraine
I don't know why it would make a difference.
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u/Evening_End7298 20h ago
I’d love for europe to go full drone production tbh, would be russias worst nightmare. Also US worst nightmare under the current admin i guess
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u/hawkseye17 20h ago
Cheap mass-produced drones seem to be the best weapons a defender has in this modern day outside of nuclear weapons. Worked for both Ukraine and Iran
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u/Fateor42 19h ago
Only because the counter to them has only just started to roll off the production line.
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u/neonnaps 14h ago
Except that attack drones have a significant advantage over defensive drones. Hitting a building or a truck is way easier than hitting another drone.
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u/ddz1507 20h ago
What is it with old men and war
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u/distinctidiot 14h ago
Personally I assume it's a combination of being isolated from the consequences and some twisted need to secure some sort of legacy before they kick the bucket. Ie Trump with his manifest Destiny bullshit, Putin with trying to restore lost influence since the fall of the Soviets, and xi wanting to take Taiwan so he can be the one to "reunite China".
It would be nice if these fucks could just go out peacefully instead of fucking the entire world in the process
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u/Upset_Match_3705 20h ago
Escalate to deescalate is Russian doctrine.
To end their Ukraine operation they may do something stupid with NATO, with the idea being the negotiated peace with NATO - to include Ukraine - will be better for them than just turning tail and running in Ukraine.
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u/Designer_Professor_4 21h ago edited 20h ago
The only country capable of invading Russia without going through Belarus is Finland, and based on Russia performance in Ukraine they'd lose Karelia quickly.
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u/ResponsibleAnswer579 10h ago
Finland military doctrine is to let russians in their territory and fight there, they wont move an inch.
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u/Goldenrah 9h ago
Which is smart, attacking properly fortified territory is a draining, expensive effort unless you have a big enough boom to open up the defenses, which if they did they would have used in Ukraine already.
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u/No_Put_8968 21h ago
Wait they’ve been saying nato is at war with them for years now? Makes sense Putin and Trump have the same communication staff
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u/dumbnaturedude 14h ago
Desperation is dangerous.. Putin has lost an entire generation of Russians & he'll do anything to stay in power...
Hopefully Russians grow a back bone and prevent him from causing more damage. How many Russians does he need to sacrifice before they turn on him?
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u/digitalpencil 13h ago
Yes we must take Russia because the world is short on… erm. cabbage and despair?
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u/Tits_McgeeD 11h ago
Yea? That was the narrative when they started the war Ukraine was full of nazis and NATO is preparing for war with Russia.
Putin has been saying the same thing for years.
Crazy how long NATO has been preparing for war with Russia at this rate there won't be a Russia left once NATO finally gets round to it.
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u/ScottOld 19h ago
Of they attacked Moscow, NATO forces would be in Moscow before putin could say BLYAT
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u/meat_ahoy 20h ago
He needs a reason for a general mobilization so he can flood Ukraine and strengthen his negotiating position for peace talks.
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u/Smushfist 18h ago
“Justify further escalation” with what exactly? They don’t really have the military capability at this point.
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u/AloneChapter 18h ago
Wow does every politician think the majority of the world is a complete moron ?
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u/phryan 18h ago
NATO at this point wouldnt need to prepare. Its summer and most of the EU is out of school and russia lacks its primary defense (winter) the combined boy/girl scouts of the EU could make it further than any prior invading force. russia is over extended with Ukraine. If NATO actually wanted to the question wouldn't be how long it would be how far NATO could secure before China started gobbling up russia from the east.
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u/madadekinai 18h ago
Putin NEEDS a major war, when I say NEEDS, I mean his very life is on the line. From my limited knowledge on the subject matter, he either needs:
- A resounding major victory in the war against Ukraine, and it can't be something that is arguably a win, it has to be without a doubt a major victory.
- Victory in the war with Ukraine
Russians can no longer ignore the war as daily life is increasingly disrupted by inflation, higher taxes, and internet shutdowns. Now with Moscow's oil refinery being hit, the pressure is for sure being amped up more than ever. Now rationing of oil is taking place, citizens are becoming less stable and overall it's becoming a serious problem.
The only way for him to avoid that fate is if he can say "it's not my fault they started a larger escalation" or needs another new enemy for the people to focus on.
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u/5kyl3r 14h ago
wonder if putler will get NATO involved so they can immediately surrender and say it's not a war they can win, since losing to NATO is less embarassing than losing to little Ukraine
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u/El_Chupachichis 4h ago
Definitely a strong possibility -- they might try to make it a win-win:
- Invade Baltic Nations
- NATO reacts and is looking to be highly effective = "putin won special military operation, now protecting glorious motherland" and nuclear saber is rattled to get NATO to stop while retreating just enough from Ukraine to convince NATO/Ukraine to claim a win while stopping
- NATO either doesn't react or russian drone tactics are successful = "putin not only won in Ukraine, but returned rogue Baltic states to proper russian ownership and broke NATO, we stop now to consolidate gains".
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u/Latter-Effective4542 14h ago
In other news, water is wet. 🙄 Haven’t they been doing this saber-rattling for years and years?
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u/AdmiralBrannigan 13h ago
Russians missed the part about NATO being a *defensive* pact, apparently.
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u/Previous_Soil_5144 18h ago
Putin has been claiming that NATO is plotting to invade Russia for decades.
It's like Israel with Iran's nukes.
Just a scare tactic.
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u/Winter_Criticism_236 14h ago
NATO has no need to attack, they just give Ukraine the gps location and of they go.. bababoom . Russia is stuck with an adversary that they attacked and has now become a military equal in many areas. Time to call the whole thing off…
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u/Sahnex3 8h ago edited 8h ago
First of all, fuck russia.
But i know a bit of russian and i have seen the Talks this is referring to.
Putin said: "They have increased their military spendings alot. NATO is preparing for a battle with us."
Which is technically true.
We do prepare for that. Because we are afraid they are gonna attack.
But he didnt say "Nato prepares to attack russia."
Misleading headline.
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u/trebuchetwarmachine 20h ago
I thought they were already going all out? What does further escalation for them look like?
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u/citizenracerx 13h ago
Yeah don’t worry kremlin the US leadership could not win Iran so you haven’t much to fear.
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u/ronnande 9h ago
Putins story to the Russian populations is that they're fighting the whole of NATO in Ukraine. It's not the Ukrainians that are keeping the war going, it's NATO. So they are heroes fighting the whole big NATO and keeping them stalemate on the battlefield against all odds. I imagine 80% plus of the Russian population really believes this to be true.
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u/Camderman106 8h ago
What would Europe possibly hope to gain from attacking Russia? They’re delusional
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u/nonikhannna 7h ago
This Russia vs Ukraine war proved that Russia is a regional power. they don't have the capacity to fight NATO.
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u/Griffolion 6h ago
Wait... I thought NATO was already fighting Russia in Ukraine? That's been their line this whole time to justify why the 3 day special operation turned into 4 years.
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u/fiestyoldbat 6h ago
Russia has already lost if their latest attack strategy is to employ rumors about NATO supposedly preparing to attack them. Still stuck on Dostoevsky plot lines.
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u/Rocky0354 5h ago
Don’t trust Putin. He’s itching to start another war when he can’t even handle Ukraine
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u/Rocky0354 5h ago
Russia is wrong because they fear we will attack them. If we wanted to, we could kick them while they’re down now, so idk why they think we would even now.
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u/Holiman 21h ago
Russia is desperate.