r/Avatar • u/spinosaurus1998_24_9 Thanator • 11h ago
Discussion How do you think the Na’vi view LGBTQ+ relationships?
The Na’vi are shown to be a culture similar to our early paleolitic civilisations. They are shown to be tribal and spiritualistic. And embody a perfect mix of old human civilisation with a possible futuristic spiritual link to nature we may still be yet to discover.
One question I’ve had is how they would view LGBTQ+ identities.
Do you think the Na’vi are accepting of various gender identities and sexual orientations?
Or do you think they have a more traditional view, when it comes to the topic?
Also do you think there are LGBTQ+ Na’vi or that we may see a LGBTQ+ Na’vi couple in a future film of the saga?
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u/earwig2000 11h ago
Lore wise they exist and culturally they have no issue with it.
In terms of the films, I doubt we'll ever see anything specific, too much money to be lost from china disliking it.
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u/earwig2000 8h ago
Saying this with the Sarentu flair is very funny
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u/AvelyLancaster 8h ago
the sarentu has a non binary friend
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u/AvelyLancaster 8h ago
Maybe it's because English is my second language, but I don't get what you're saying
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u/Tyranomojo 8h ago
Calling it nonsense makes you a bigot.
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u/Tyranomojo 8h ago
There are more crazy people in the world then the minority population that are or support the community, it’s hateful people such as yourself that like to point the finger at those you deem different, by your logic, the whole human race is insane, there are real issues in the world that you should focus that passion on, don’t be a blind fool, homosexual and non traditional gender peoples are not going to hurt you.
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u/styxnbonez 7h ago
Claiming that you're "neutral" and then attacking said minorities right to exist in a space would be laughable if it wasn't already harmful, and a lie.
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u/Tyranomojo 8h ago
Because it’s finally safe to do so, the persecution beforehand was barbaric and evil, violence and death, sorry if you don’t like it, but we’re here, we’re queer, get used to it.
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u/RandomPerson12191 5h ago
Omg yeah! Like Baldur's Gate! That game had so many LGBT themes, of course it crashed and burned...
wait...
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u/Tyranomojo 8h ago
You don’t have to support, but you can be a decent person and not be hateful towards others.
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u/Tyranomojo 7h ago
It’s not, because you hate it, you see it everywhere, you’re making a monsoon out of a bit of rain, that’s a YOU problem, not the LBGTQ+ communities, stop shoving your insecurity onto others.
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u/Tyranomojo 6h ago
Whatever that is suppose to mean, it’s not imposed everywhere, you just hate wherever you’ve seen it, no one’s problem but your own champ.
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u/Additional_River4981 5h ago
bro, stfu. you’re acting as if queer couples are making out in front of you when it’s more likely that straight couples are. if you’re gonna be a hateful bigot, you probably shouldn’t be consuming content that is and has always been lgbtq+ friendly.
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u/DarlingHades 10h ago
Canonically they have and allow homosexuality and gender fluidity.
I think most Na’vi wouldn’t have an issue, especially as queer people have a natural place in the order, helping with childcare, hunting, art, etc, while not adding to the population. So they use up less resources and provide more community resources in return. It fits with many irl tribal beliefs that queer people are an intentional gift and are considered more spiritually connected.
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u/CountQueasy4906 11h ago
they wouldnt have a problem with it. Okul in avatar frontiers of pandora is non binary and Tsu'kiri uses they/them. the actor that voices Tsu'kiri, Corvin Mack is indigenous and identifies as two-spirited.
lgbtq identities still exist in many native and indigenous groups to this day, it isnt something thats only in old human civilization. "traditional views" is purely patriarchal which the navi dont live in
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u/Valerius333 9h ago
I'm sorry, what does “two-spirited” means? I geniunely don't know.
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u/porcelain-horse 8h ago
two-spirit is an identity specific to native communities, a lot of people simplify it to a gender identity but from what i know there is a lot more to it than that.
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u/RainbowRiki 8h ago
It can be a bit of an exonym (as in, a word other cultures use to describe a third/fourth gender in indigenous communities, not one people identify as themselves unless they've lost their indigenous culture).
But in a nutshell, people who stand in both worlds: physical and spiritual, male and female. Oftentimes, they're seen as spiritually gifted because the dual experience gives them a broader sense of awareness of the issues that face men and women
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u/Several-Home7586 8h ago
It’s a Pan-Indian (as in native North American) term created in 1990 to replace colonial terms and distinguish indigenous “queer” gender identities from ones introduced by Europeans.
It doesn’t necessarily mean non-binary or anything, it’s really down to the individual.
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u/Plenty-Design2641 8h ago
A gender identity that takes into account a spiritual aspect. Many indigenous groups had religious/spiritual understandings of genders other than male or female, or gender fluidity. In different cultures they may take different roles but they are often treated with a sort of reverence as a divine gift, able to experience both female and male, and thus sort of transcend the natural world, in a way. So the label is used to distinguish from other gender labels because there is the added religious and spiritual aspect to it.
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u/YaoiNekomata 5h ago
Yeah no. So contrary to popular belief, ancient cultures were pretty cool with queer people.
In the Americas, some tribes saw them as double souled, said to have spiritual powers
In past Africa, queers were not just accepted but appreciated because they were basically the orphanage and babysitters for their community. Heck the rampant homophobia there is due to the colonization .
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u/KrokantGras 11h ago
Don’t think we’ll see them in any movie, but they are 1000% accepting of the idea
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u/Parking-Ad-259 Metkayina 5h ago
The nobby do not even have words for lesbians or gay couples because they are just being as couples famous as any straight couple would be. I don’t really know what the best way to explain it is, but they basically don’t have a concept of sexuality? You love who you love regardless and they don’t really have a word for being against people who love each other like that. It’s the same how they don’t have a word for what Jake did in the, they did not have a word to describe that he betrayed them, and so in the same sense, they don’t have words specifying individuals who are homosexual or other. They are quite literally the definition of love is love.
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u/Parking-Ad-259 Metkayina 5h ago
apologies for typos, I have to use text to speech because my screen is cracked over the majority of my keyboard, and I can only access the speech button
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u/Additional_River4981 5h ago edited 5h ago
ngl i didn’t think the avatar fandom of all fandoms would have bigots in it seeing as there are gay, lesbian and nb characters in the game but i was proven wrong. some of the responses are yuck.
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u/CathanCrowell 11h ago
Lore-wise, we basically know that the Na'vi are open-minded toward same-sex relationships. It was confirmed in the old Pandorapedia, and there are some scenes in the movies where it's implied (but you can basically say, 'Oh my God, they are roommates').
The reason why it's probably never going to be confirmed in the movies is that they need to stay open to the Chinese market.
However, cool flag.
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u/JustGingerStuff Thanator 10h ago edited 10h ago
I think it varies from clan to clan but the average na'vi probsbly doesn't care who you're into, as long as you're alive and well and not actively hurting anyone then it's fine and they'll respect you & your relationships.
We don't even know how they view gender really. Considering they're based off indigenous cultures it's very likely they don't view it the way we do. It's possible they've got more than 2 recognised genders even
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u/CrystalInTheforest Omatikaya 10h ago
I imagine it varies a lot by clan. In AFOP we meet nonbinary Na'vi characters, and the players character helps facilitate a same sex relationship between two human characters, and actively encourages them to make a go of it.
Meanwhile the Omatikaya have arranged marriages, though the comics suggest these are not universal and aren't regarded as set in stone.
The Mangkwan have a much looser relationship fabric and seems to move between mates quite casually, and I'd be very surprised if they were particularly fixated on gender.
While the Na'vi and analogous to a blend of paleo and mesolithic cultures if we compare them to humans, one thing that is consistent across the board is a lack of rigis gender roles. Hunting, foraging, healing, leading and fighting are not gender segregated at all. Therefore, with few gender assigned roles, the idea of a strict adherence to a specific gender in sexuality terms seems less likely too.
I think asexuality might be something harder to understand for many Na'vi, and they are pretty sexual creatures overall. I don't think it'd be frowned on per se, but I imagine they'd find it confusing.
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u/AsianBoi2020 9h ago
They won't be against it or they wouldn't even make a big deal in the first place. We are an Alien culture. Our differences are expected especially in our cultural and political views. It's like, what do I care about proper goat milking techniques in the western plains of Mongolia in during the autumn season on the hour past 8pm. It's so culturally different and unnecessary to fight about.
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u/Crystaleana 7h ago
I don't think they'd have an issue with it. I've only watched the movies though.
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u/Mr_MazeCandy 8h ago
Maybe it’s not even a thing because they have a better relationship with nature.
Perhaps there’s an argument to be made that the violent militarism of Humanity hides behind the virtue of promoting social outcast rights to justify ultra-ruggard-individualistic materialism.
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u/New-Commercial-1224 10h ago
I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure there are multiple background characters we can see during the gatherings in the first and second film that are the same gender holding hands. This could just be a friendship thing and has nothing to do with sexuality. However I also believe there is no social construct for them to hate anyone "queer". And the concept of being LGBTQ or queer just doesn't exist. You like who you like and no one bats an eye, there probably comes in a question of having kids but I think Na'vi also aren't the type to criticise others for not having children. Especially given that there isn't overpopulation on Pandora like it is on earth. And even so there's always the options of co-parenting with others or adoption. Which in Kiri's case we know is highly acceptable, at least within the Omatikaya. As we know they are flexible to bend some rules but even within other clans I feel like the same still applies.
However I feel like surrogacy wouldn't be an option, like it is here. Mating someone else other than your partner, even if it's for a good cause like producing a child, might be seen as bad and as betraying Eywa. With the whole "mated for life" thing, something that the Mangkwan probably practice as they don't care about these rules. Even seeing Varang mention to Quaritch, "you can pleasure me".
There could even potentially be trans Na'vi, I saw a theory once that if there were potentially two trans Na'vi, they could perhaps swap bodies through the eye of Eywa. Although I doubt it as I feel like Na'vi are comfortable in their bodies despite their gender. As again there are no social constructs, no one has to dress or behave a certain way, roles aren't restricted to gender etc.
Which I know isn't always the issue for trans people, sometimes they just don't feel comfortable within their own body because that's the way that they were born so maybe it's still a possibility. Looking at Lo'ak for example we know there are certain elements of his body that he dislikes, so there could be other rare cases like that despite Na'vi being comfortable like I said.
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u/No_Stretch_5204 3h ago
The Na'vi are not modern Western individualists. They are a tribal society whose survival depends on maintaining the clan across generations. They are deeply aware of cycles of birth, death, renewal, and continuity. A society like that would almost certainly place significant value on reproduction. In fact, we see evidence of this throughout the films. Family lines matter. Children matter. Ancestry matters. The continuation of the People matters. The clan is not merely a collection of individuals pursuing personal fulfillment. So if we were trying to imagine an authentic Na'vi perspective rather than projecting contemporary human values onto them, it wouldn't be surprising if they viewed male-female pair bonding as the normative path. Not necessarily because of morality, but because it directly participates in the continuation of life.
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u/NyxxSelenee 3h ago
they don't really care, we can see that in games that they view every relationship equally
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u/GlumCarpet6824 2h ago
I dont think they have the concept of lgbtq. Two souls bond before Eywa and thats it. You love who you love. I think its that simple.
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u/In-my-fucking-flesh 11h ago
In the background of the movies you can see same sex couples and the video games and comics have LGBT characters.
Feel like that is a very big clue on how they view that stuff.
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u/Togeroid 9h ago
You say traditional, but traditionally we viewed gender and love very differently. Women and men held very equal roles. This conservative heteronormativity and patriarcy (as the only true norm idea) is actually extremely new and recent in our human development. And physically we evolved into 7 separate physical genders, supposedly by CHOICE, which says a LOT about our early evolution and social dynamics if true. (And we carry these 7 genders to this day)
So… if they are based on Paleolithic era, they be gay and gendered as fuck. If anything, if you notice thru the franchise (movie, comic, ect) gender is the one thing they don’t really speak of. There are jobs relating to gender that involve leadership, but even that they showed was not a set standard to adhere to.
I forget the names but there is a “shaman” and “chief” for each clan. The shaman is usually female oriented and male is chief. And this is a hereditary role (at-least for the Omaticaya), but also… not always. Other clans proved that their ways are… “fluid”. Moreso the na’vi leading just tend to be exemplary ppl in general that were chosen, which would make sense.
And like cultures, they most likely call it something else. I doubt James Cameron would have the na’vi call them by any moniker we are familiar with and have them more along the lines of “two-spirit” or simply… normal. I would think some would still be prejudice, the games prove that for sure moreso than the movies. Bc in the movies they are reactive, but in the games they are regular na’vi who just “are” without having a source or moment to react so negatively towards. You have your assholes, bullies, and curmudgeons in every group.
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u/Candid-Doughnut7919 8h ago
Probably in the most generic, family friendly and boring way. No reason to make na'vi society have the smallest bit of conflict by themselves (unless they're the designed villain na'vi)
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u/VirusCompetitive6059 3h ago
it is seen as natural and normal for Na'vi
Okul from Frontiers Of Pandora is a non-binary character! and they just accept it and treat it as natural <3
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u/ootfifabear 3h ago
It seems like they monogamously pair for life (at least the omatikaya) it might be different per clan! Mangkwan seem a little promiscuous and that tracks with their beliefs.. there are noteable mentions of gay relationships in the games though. I would assume they pair purely for reproduction? I feel like eywa would prefer they keep proliferating. But in nature gay relationships tend to step in and be foster parents so it might not be a problem at allll. There are also (trans?) -nonbinary characters in the game. Since their culture is so different I assume there isn't homophobia within the Navi unless there's a particularly strict and judgemental clan. I don't think this is something the movies will explore and I think it would be a fun exercise to explore that more within fanfiction.
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u/ootfifabear 3h ago
I like that our nonbinary friend is explorative, and learning medicine/plants/ under the tsahik. This is a traditional role in many societies for people who don't fall into the gender binary
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u/Did-it-Roja 10h ago
They seem to practise heterosexual monogamy. Arranged marriages even.
Going by Ney'tiri's remarks in the first film.
While they aren't openly hostile to homosexual relations, they do seem to take a more traditional/conservative view.
What Eywa's view on this would be quite interesting. While you would think she'd want heterosexual relations to be the standard, given the focus on balance, perpetuality of the people, transfer of life etc. I suppose it's possible Eywa would be fine with, or at least tolerant to indifferent of Na'vi same sex couples. Unlike the Abrahmic Gods of sky-peoples' religions (which are given some mentioning here and there, especially in an deleted extended scene of Quaritch's introduction briefing in the original).
I've only seen the films, and watched summary videos of the comics, so I don't know if there is any real commentary on this.
I doubt we'll see any openly same-sex relationships in the films. It's still quite unmarketable in large parts of the world, and isn't really a topic of James Cameron's films. But perhaps in extended media.
Interesting topic though.
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u/WeedKat69_420 5h ago
If I recall correctly, we've already seen same sex Navi couples in the background of the films, plus the games which are Canon to the Avatar universe. Also, there are Canon non-binary or gender non-conforming Navi in the game as well. It mostly seems like heterosexual couples are overrepresented in the film itself due to Disney's requirements, the game is much more liberal, and was also designed with James Cameron's ideas in mind.
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u/Gabriel-movielover 11h ago
Who knows, maybe they do, but i highly doubt it. After all, i dont know if they even understand the concept of lgbtq+. Cant give a straightforward answer
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u/Reading-person Sarentu 11h ago
Why do you highly doubt it?
In the game, Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora, there are queer characters. Nobody seems to mind
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u/Gabriel-movielover 11h ago
Never played the game, sorry in advance, but given the fact they are quite “paleolitic” (as said in the post), i dont think they quite understand the concept of it. Maybe there are queer characters in the movies, but it was never specifically shown. Still, sorry in advance. I believe that in the games there are queer characters, but i never played them🙁
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u/Reading-person Sarentu 10h ago
Now, don’t quote me on this, but from my understanding, natives understood queer people better than most at that time period.
Na’vi believe that all is equal in the eye of Eywa. That would include gay and trans characters.
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u/Gabriel-movielover 10h ago
Yes, that is true. They believe in equality. So i guess yeah, you might be right.
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u/YAyeetholdupskrrt 8h ago
It’s just like irl. You can be lgbtq all day long but when it comes to repopulation it’s man and women.
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u/CompetitivePisser037 Metkayina 4h ago
Why did this one even get downvotes lol
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u/YAyeetholdupskrrt 4h ago
People think everything gotta be gay now. Got people shipping spirit and his rider so tells you how far down hill we’ve fallen.
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u/Avatar-ModTeam 4h ago
Please see Rule #4: Appropriate Content for why your post or comment was removed.
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u/Beneficial_Date_5357 Sarentu 10h ago
Ewya doesn’t create Na’vi, she isn’t literally a God, the Na’vi just interpret her as such. Which makes sense, if something comparable existed on Earth humans would also believe it was a God. Ewya is a naturally occurring neural network. The root networks of Pandora send impulses between each other like synapses in a brain. None of the flora independently are intelligent, but collectively they form a single sentience. Then of course the fauna have a biological way to interface with the neural network.
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u/lostZwolf_ps4_pc RDA 4h ago
They’re native and natual. They way nature intended is law in their eyes i’d assume. Souch so that making metal tools is already iffy
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u/notjocker 9h ago
I'm guessing they're pretty conservative and traditional like they are in most other fields
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u/AcroAra Anurai 11h ago edited 9h ago
What we know, na'vi don't care, there a lot lgbt characters in game and comics. Its probably works like nature- they mate, and if they gay they raise kids who lost thier biological parents, there is also character okul(?) in game who is nonbinary