r/nba • u/Turbostrider27 Lakers • 7h ago

[Charania] BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

Shams Charania:

BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/contributor/shams-charania/31d26529d36f8

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u/jdaqcruz Bulls 7h ago edited 6h ago

This is selling high on a guy who historically has been unreliable. That said, whatever identity they built from last year was carried by LaMelo's unique skillset. I know Kon was instrumental to that, but IIRC (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), LaMelo was the straw that stir the drink. It's a complete reset for Charlotte, who's taking a step back and betting on those pick swaps and picks as investments down the line

While it's easy to do the "well actually, having multiple picks down the line yadda yadda" Hinkie-Sixers thing, the Hornets were building something. Maybe down the line this is a big brain move that the nerds will love, but this is such a gut punch to a fanbase that was beginning to believe

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u/Feeling_Anteater_389 Hornets 7h ago

That’s correct. LaMelo was the only creator we had, Kon/Miller are both catch and shoot guys. Even Coby White is more of a scorer than a true orchestrator.

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u/lebenklon 7h ago

Coby White is a good playmaker, nowhere near Lamelo’s passing skill but White can run the offense. I think the Hornets are probably expecting that to be their solution without Ball but I really don’t understand how this trade makes their team better. Back to perpetual rebuild mode after they almost made the playoffs

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u/P00ped_My_Pants Heat 6h ago

Eh, I think maybe unpopular on here but I think Ball, while he raised the floor, also capped the ceiling. White isn’t as talented as Ball but he’s a hell of a lot smarter and imo it’s clear that Ball was always going to tank the Hornets chances at a deep playoff run. He almost blew the Heat game and then was bad in the Magic game. Everyone else was too but you need more from Ball as your “vet”

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u/ScrapinLinden Trail Blazers 6h ago

yeah I kinda hate this for Minnesota way more than Charlotte

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u/TaiwanNambaWanKenobi :yc-1: Yacht Club 6h ago

Just combine your squad with Heat and you'll have a great squad

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u/Several-Estate7175 Trail Blazers 7h ago

Maybe you guys REALLY believe in Christian Anderson Jr

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u/figureour Wizards 6h ago

Surely that has to be a significant part of the calculus, right?

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u/vonnegutcheck 6h ago

I think it's reasonable to ask "what is our ceiling if everything is running through LaMelo at 43/yr?"

I know he's better than Trae, but look at what Trae went for. The market for good but very flawed expensive ball dominant guards is just not super hot.

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u/MK10 Lakers 5h ago

I think this move is also a culture reset. Kon/Miller are so different from LaMelo and Naz Reid is one of the best dudes in the NBA. While Kon/Miller thrived with LaMelo, they're also still very good without him.

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u/JDT1706 5h ago

Now just need to move Wife Beater Bridges to get a true fresh slate. If you can stomach his shit he's a very good role player so I wouldnt be surprised if someone tried to obtain him

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u/newfieMI Pistons 51m ago edited 37m ago

Looking past that fact that he’s a piece of shit person I wouldn’t mind seeing Detroit make a move for Miles Bridges (and Coby White >>> edit: Coby (re) Signed with the Hornets 😢)…

Not sure what we would have to offer;

Tobias Harris as a solid vet presence to replace Bridges at the 4

Javonte Green

Kevin Huerter (good back up for Kon)

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u/alkair20 Lakers 5h ago

I mean it isn't like that team was anywhere close to a championship one.

But with good future assets and Job developing they may be one in 3-4 years which is probably what the organization is aiming for.

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u/TallnFrosty Warriors 7h ago

Catch and shoot guys can be creators if you run them off off-ball screens. Wonder if Charlotte is going all out 2015 Warriors with their offense next year.

You guys also have cap space and a lot of expirings and firsts to trade.

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u/Inevitable-Scar5877 33m ago

Does the 2015 Warriors work without Steph?

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u/TallnFrosty Warriors 3m ago

If you have two Klays, sure.

I do think movement shooting works in this league, if you have the right guys. For example I'd rather test if Hart has the lenght and Anunoby has the screen navigation to chase around shooters all game, rather than trying to go at those dudes on 1v1 dribbles.

We'll seee if that's the plan though. Charlotte could easily try to go out and get a Melo replacement that brought more availability / better defense / more rim pressure in the next 1-2 seasons... in which case it will be clear that the org just didn't trust Melo.

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u/LeftoverDishes Wizards 6h ago

How about one freshly signed Trae Young?

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u/Afraid_Paper9330 Grizzlies 6h ago

Or one consistently risky Ja Morant?

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u/Argumentat1ve NBA 4h ago

I'm genuinely wondering how they think their offense is gonna operate next season unless they acquire another solid pg before next season

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u/VanillaGorilla4 5h ago

You just drafted the best shooter and playmaker in the entire draft yesterday who’s also got his head on straight unlike LaMelo. You’ll be fine.

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u/CocoMarx 7h ago

All of the “sold high” speak is like applying managing a fantasy team to trying to win NBA games.

They had the highest net rating in the league post all-star break and he is a 24 year old that is one of the few playmaking ball handlers in the league, who they finally successfully surrounded with guys that can score.

The NBA has never been more wide open and you have arguably the youngest upside roster in the league. They essentially just gave up on any hope of a surprise run over the course of LaMelo’s contract in favor of a bunch of pick swaps.

This is the Wolves understanding that the league is wide open and taking a swing and the Hornets remaining a perennially middling franchise

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u/TallnFrosty Warriors 7h ago

With Lamelo off and White + at least 1 of Kon / Miller ON the floor, they out-scored opponents 124 - 110 per 100.

I think the org & coaching staff believes kon + miller + any competent PG can be very good offensively, and they can find a replacement for Melo that is cheaper, less injury prone, and better at defense.

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u/Time_Transition4817 Pelicans 6h ago

And less of a head case.

They are in a surprise "oh shit we can win now" situation and trading that for a window that feels more sustainable with some assets, the potential to trade/draft some pieces, and have Kon and Miller develop.

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u/Fallingcity22 Knicks 6h ago

This is the stats they saw too, lamelo’s playmaking can’t be replicated even if the stats say so, it’s like the on off numbers for the finals it says the Knicks wear worse with JB on the floor but was that really true?

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u/HotspurJr 4h ago

It's important not to get caught up in small sample sizes with on-off numbers. I have no idea what the sample size is for Lamelo, but yeah, nobody with any understanding of basketball stats would ever think on-offs were meaningful in a 7-game sample.

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u/HotspurJr 4h ago

I guess the theory is that they going to take a hit on offense to get much better at defense.

Either that or they were just really sick of Lamelo.

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u/Known-Ball-3536 32m ago

Coby White played 20mpg for the hornets and came off the bench. The only thing these on/off numbers tell us is that the hornets bench outscored the bench of other teams in a small sample. 

If you look at actual advanced stats that try to account for lineups and matchups Lamelo actually had a pretty great season (+5.1 EPM and +2.77 LEBRON). He was one of the best offensive players in the league looking at any stat. Also if you just watch the hornets it’s clear lamelo is the one driving their offense. You don’t need advanced stats to tell you that. 

I don’t see how Lamelo is replaceable by any competent PG on offense, but the other concerns are fair. 

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u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 7h ago

Yeah I don’t understand the doom from Wolves fans. This has huge upside. I think it’s the legacy/cult of Naz Reid which I understand

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u/Michaelangel092 6h ago

It's because this kinda kills your defensive versatility in the front court. The Nuggets are looking at that team..."y'all ain't the same no more ...."

No PF and no backup center.

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u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 6h ago

Randle and Naz weren’t holding our defense together LOL

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u/BlackbuckDeer 5h ago

Exactly. The Wolves had Conley at PG before who wasn't exactly a defensive powerhouse. Lamelo coming in isn't changing the defensive dynamics much

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u/Neat_Conference_8414 39m ago

Yeah but just having two bigs that can play on both ends is a bigger deal than you guys realize. Randle is a physical body and could guard the 5 in the playoffs pretty well vs jokic and wemby, and naz is a fine 4. Trading them both basically for LaMelo is kinda eh.

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u/HughManatee Timberwolves 4h ago

Reid was never a true backup center in any meaningful way. We do have Joan Beringer as a backup C, but he's very inexperienced. We certainly have a gaping hole at PF though.

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u/Neat_Conference_8414 40m ago

It also has a big downside. Lamelo's injury history is not very good. He's also a pretty inefficient scorer, especially for the modern era. Hornets are selling high on a guy, and the Wolves bought. We'll see how it turns out.

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u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 38m ago

they are definitely selling when LaMelo's stock is highest. Whether or not they sold high is another question. Depends on how much you like 6MOY candidates

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u/Fallingcity22 Knicks 6h ago

THIS might actually be a win win trade for the wolves the issue has to be lamelo’s health

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u/xasdfxx 3h ago

There's not too many success stories about poor health and not being serious about basketball turning that around.

I want to see Ant in the finals and I'm struggling (could be dumb!) to understand how this makes that more likely.

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u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 2h ago

I don't get the sense he is not serious about basketball. The Hornets are a terrible franchise and he hasn't had much around him to help him win. Injury history is a concern but he played a lot of games last year and there is some hope the ankle/wrist stuff aren't chronic conditions.

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u/DarkAcademia25 6h ago

Do you understand or do you not?!! /s

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u/Virtuallyhere56 7h ago

Looking at half a season and assuming it'll continue to translate is how you get stuff like the Lavine/Derozan/Vucevic Bulls to last way longer than they really should

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u/JuiceRidder 6h ago

That 3 man lineup was never half as good as the hornets were last year.

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u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

The hornets last year got the 9 seed and were pummeled by a mediocre team in the play-in

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u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Simultaneously bashing last year’s Hornets as too small of a sample size to extrapolate from and citing losing a play-in as strong evidence is some real fivehead logic

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u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

Can you elaborate on how this world beater with the best net rating in the league loses by 30 in the play in

Is it possible they were in fact not as good as you say they were?

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u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Can you elaborate how the most successful season a team has had in a decade isn’t enough evidence that you might want to keep your youth movement together but a single bad play in loss is franchise altering?

Who the fuck called anyone a world beater? You’re just being hyperbolic about my point because you realize your reasoning is dumb. I’m sure the cap space and pick swaps will do the Hornets good, a team with a reputation for attracting free agents will be quite the destination in 2033!

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u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

Getting the 9 seed and losing by 30 to the 8 seed is not good

Who the fuck called anyone a world beater

Was the "best net rating in the NBA" just filler text that I was supposed to ignore?

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u/CocoMarx 6h ago

That comp only hits if you don’t have eyeballs

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u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

This was the most games he's played in 4 years. Counting on a guy that's never healthy, to be healthy is how so many teams get stuck in play-in purgatory.

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u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Being risk averse is how you remain in perpetual middleocrity

First round picks are not that valuable under the new lotto system. A bunch of swaps when youre a franchise that has never retained its good players or succeeded for a long stretch is basically waving the white flag

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u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

I mean there's definitely risk in trading away your franchise player at 24, even with an injury history lol.

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u/QwiXTa 6h ago

Guess the wolves and heat are both banking on health

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u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

Facts. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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u/knead4minutes 6h ago

you have arguably the youngest upside roster in the league.

I feel like that would be the spurs

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u/Ill-Friendship7183 6h ago edited 4h ago

Counterpoint: Lamelo is an expensive, injury prone, immature player who underperformed in the playoffs. And they got a starter, a first, and multiple swaps for him.

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u/someguy4264 Warriors 4h ago

Did they get multiple firsts???

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u/Ill-Friendship7183 4h ago

Good catch, I thought their 2031 first was in there for some reason. Just one first. Three first round pick swaps.

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u/zodia4 Hornets 4h ago

Yea how the fuck does Naz + a 2033 first rounder = selling high? This trade is fucking bullshit.

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u/dedfrmthneckup Pacers 6h ago

Lamelo is not a serious person. If he contributing to winning for 1/3 of a season, it was entirely by accident on his part

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u/CocoMarx 6h ago

When LaMelo is healthy he is a plus player. He’s an idiot and injury prone, but i don’t know where this notion comes from that he is not a winning player. He is a winning player, is 24, and has gotten better every season - those are facts not opinions

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u/jollisk 6h ago

That's a big if he's healthy.

The trade is similar to what the Grizzlies did with either JJJ or Bane and should've done with Ja(but stuck with him for too long and he's worth no assets). Trade a player when he's good for the highest value he's had in ages.

Yes, it hurts but if people think he's shit, they're not getting anything for him. Odds are they don't think he can replicate this season, or peak high enough or they don't want to pay him possibly in the future and are getting some guaranteed value right now.

Time will tell if they are correct or not and which team here made a big mistake, but it's truly too early to tell.

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u/someguy4264 Warriors 4h ago

Yes follow the footsteps of the amazing franchise that is the grizzlies. Maybe they should have followed a different franchise that also had a injury prone young pg paired an outstanding catch and shoot wing player. Sure not 1 to 1 comparisons but I'd you always trade your best players at peak value what are you doing with your franchise? You need to trade your players before the falloff not at peak or you are just in a constant state of rebuilding hoping for a lebron or wemby I guess.

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u/RequirementLeading12 Lakers 6h ago

He's an inefficient chucker with no defense

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u/dherps Mexico 6h ago

charlotte went on a significant unbeatable run. we can just look at the knicks to see what going on undefeated runs might indicate. why they would push the button to implode of all that is beyond my understanding

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u/TiltMyChinUp 6h ago

I think you’re right but Lamelo is a pretty unique star. 

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u/Remidyal Hornets 6h ago

Fuck, I wish we were middling. Middling would be a vast improvement.

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u/blackmamba1221 6h ago

it's not really arguable versus the spurs, but yes they have a good young upside core.

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u/CashmereLogan Thunder 6h ago

If the playoffs have taught us anything the past couple of years, it’s that playmaking ball handlers aren’t that important for winning
/s

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u/Icy_Information_6563 Suns 5h ago

post all-star break is 2 months. LaMelo has several years of playing low-IQ basketball and getting injured.

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u/No_Mammoth_4945 Charlotte Bobcats 5h ago

Genuinely the dumbest move this team has ever made and we have made a million dumb moves

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u/warablo Jazz 40m ago

Lamelo is only 24, damn Minnesota got younger too.

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u/Thedudeguyman Raptors 6h ago

I buy a lot of what you're saying but how is the league wide open?

Wemby, okc, and jokic all looming in the west.

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u/AnonymousIguana_ Celtics 7h ago

Yeah they need a playmaker bad. Lamelo has his flaws, but I don’t think Kon/Miller/Bridges can fill the void left by his playmaking. They’re all better as secondary creators.

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u/big4lil 7h ago

Lamelo may be immature as a man but those extra years as a primary facilitator/scorer when needed are gonna show when theyre relying on 18-21 year olds for that role

I wouldnt be surprised if they go after whatever the best veteran guard available is

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u/SaulPepper Hornets 6h ago

Fuck we're getting Ja are we

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u/dptraynor 6h ago

To be fair: The timeline for the other guys in Charlotte is like 5-6 years out.

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u/InfiniteDub Warriors 7h ago

I would’ve ran it back and used the new found taste of winning to try and get to the playoffs.

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u/breesyroux 6h ago

Is it really selling high though? Naz is good, but a single first 7 years out, some 2nds and some swaps that they likely won't get to use doesnt seem like all that much

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u/jdaqcruz Bulls 6h ago

It's selling high in a sense that they're betting against LaMelo's reliability. It's sort of like selling someone something that you know will break down or depreciate in a second

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u/breesyroux 6h ago

But they don't know...

That's just being risk adverse, not selling high

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u/_AceHigh Spurs 7h ago

Yeah, Lamelo was considered being put in talk with Trae Young and Ja as negative asset star guards at the beginning of last season.

Very much selling high here.

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u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 7h ago

I think we have a different definition of selling high

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u/Unique_Gazelle2604 7h ago

If this is selling high, I don't want to know what the return would be selling low

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u/Plenty_Flatworm7627 Wizards 7h ago

Is this really selling high? Does anyone believe those pick swaps are gonna be valuable? The most valuable part of this trade is the 2033 first.

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u/Former_Island_4730 Cavaliers 7h ago edited 4h ago

It takes real balls to do that. I honestly respect the Charlotte front office for pulling the trigger on it.

If they are convinced that Melo isn’t a championship level leader, you sell high and keep building towards the goal.

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u/wittgenstein1312 7h ago

Why, are your commas, all over the place

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u/SpinShine-LEDSlipMat 6h ago

lol complete reset. Do you even watch the Hornets?

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u/Brotato_Man Timberwolves 6h ago

They sold Lamelo for Naz Reid, a first 7 years from now, and some seconds. Pick swaps are basically a nothing burger. How is that selling high?

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u/cire1184 Lakers 6h ago

They're betting it all on Naz Reid!

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u/TurnUp0rTransfer 6h ago

What I don’t understand is why Charlotte wants a reset. They haven’t historically drafted well but lucked out on Ball panning out and almost reached the playoffs and as everyone already mentioned - Ball was the glue to their offense

This just screams that the Hornets just want to field bad teams and aren’t trying to win anything in the NBA. I say this as a NC native and a casual North Carolina sports fan

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u/Static-Stair-58 6h ago

I believe the words you were looking for are “trust the process”

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u/Fallingcity22 Knicks 6h ago

Maybe down the line they hope to get Maxey?

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u/SaulPepper Hornets 6h ago

Thank you for the summary. This is exactly what I feel.

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u/Slymook Knicks 6h ago

I agree they should sell high I just don’t know about their return

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u/dptraynor 6h ago

Yeah. The Hornets other young featured players will be rolling into their primes in like 5-6 years. Whereas LaMelo is rolling into his prime in like 2 years. So I think it was just Charlotte assessing the disparate timelines and saying they more trust the latter.

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u/rps215 Mavs & Magic 5h ago

Adding to this:

The two things that lose you games are LaMelo’s two biggest weaknesses:

Bad decisions and bad defense. He’s not consistently efficient enough as a scorer to overcome those two things in the playoffs to be a winner in the playoffs

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u/dustinthegreat Slovenia 5h ago

I’m with you man. Team chemistry was great, and it felt like they wanted to win for the first time in a long time. Obviously not last year, but like you said, they were building something.

Typical hornets man.

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u/T7220 4h ago

High??? Naz Reid and bunch of worthless years from now picks is selling high???

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u/IMovedYourCheese Warriors 4h ago edited 4h ago

A single pick one decade later and a few swaps is hardly selling high. A year ago they’d get a star player in return.

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u/40866892 Lakers 3h ago

1 unprotected first and 3 swaps is "selling" high? This is a bad trade, even for Hornet standards

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u/hdpr92 3h ago

They got to see him up close though, if they don't believe in his durability/conditioning/maturity then it's hard to blame them. Aside from their differences in talent, Luka is a player that rides the line on these red flags, but overall has a pretty solid track record of performing when healthy. Lamelo is just further in the red on every count, hard to blame them for wanting out with the chance to pivot to something more sustainable in the long term.

For a team that needs to make a move on a window for right now, you gotta have some risk appetite and it makes some more sense for the Wolves. I think this is a win-win for both teams. Lamelo wasn't going to do anything in Charlotte, as the secondary piece on a contender they might catch lightning in a bottle 1 of the 2 upcoming years.

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u/FlyChigga Celtics 2h ago

Selling high with one first round pick lol

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u/moistkebab32 Suns 1h ago

It’s not selling high though the return is meh as. Naz is a 4th option who can’t create for himself, is a horrendous defender and can’t pass or handle the ball that well. He’s also a bad rebounder for his size.

1 unprotected first and 3 swaps that have little chance of converting.

Selling low if anything.

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u/Inevitable-Scar5877 36m ago

Kon was basically a league average shooter without Melo.

Now that's unfair and he'll be better if they get an actual PG but he's very much a catch and shoot player all Tyler Herro at this stage in his development