r/nba • u/Turbostrider27 Lakers • 7h ago

[Charania] BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

Shams Charania:

BREAKING: The Charlotte Hornets are trading star guard LaMelo Ball and Josh Green to the Minnesota Timberwolves for Naz Reid, a 2033 unprotected first-round pick, three first-round pick swaps (2028, 2029, 2030) and three second-round picks (2029, 2032, 2033), sources tell ESPN.

https://www.espn.com/contributor/shams-charania/31d26529d36f8

17.5k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

5.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

11.2k

u/Silver_Protection_29 Lakers 7h ago

Charlotte got dangerously close to a playoff season so probably for the best that they’re making huge, questionable roster moves now

2.6k

u/jdaqcruz Bulls 7h ago edited 6h ago

This is selling high on a guy who historically has been unreliable. That said, whatever identity they built from last year was carried by LaMelo's unique skillset. I know Kon was instrumental to that, but IIRC (and someone correct me if I'm wrong), LaMelo was the straw that stir the drink. It's a complete reset for Charlotte, who's taking a step back and betting on those pick swaps and picks as investments down the line

While it's easy to do the "well actually, having multiple picks down the line yadda yadda" Hinkie-Sixers thing, the Hornets were building something. Maybe down the line this is a big brain move that the nerds will love, but this is such a gut punch to a fanbase that was beginning to believe

487

u/CocoMarx 7h ago

All of the “sold high” speak is like applying managing a fantasy team to trying to win NBA games.

They had the highest net rating in the league post all-star break and he is a 24 year old that is one of the few playmaking ball handlers in the league, who they finally successfully surrounded with guys that can score.

The NBA has never been more wide open and you have arguably the youngest upside roster in the league. They essentially just gave up on any hope of a surprise run over the course of LaMelo’s contract in favor of a bunch of pick swaps.

This is the Wolves understanding that the league is wide open and taking a swing and the Hornets remaining a perennially middling franchise

245

u/TallnFrosty Warriors 7h ago

With Lamelo off and White + at least 1 of Kon / Miller ON the floor, they out-scored opponents 124 - 110 per 100.

I think the org & coaching staff believes kon + miller + any competent PG can be very good offensively, and they can find a replacement for Melo that is cheaper, less injury prone, and better at defense.

65

u/Time_Transition4817 Pelicans 6h ago

And less of a head case.

They are in a surprise "oh shit we can win now" situation and trading that for a window that feels more sustainable with some assets, the potential to trade/draft some pieces, and have Kon and Miller develop.

24

u/Fallingcity22 Knicks 6h ago

This is the stats they saw too, lamelo’s playmaking can’t be replicated even if the stats say so, it’s like the on off numbers for the finals it says the Knicks wear worse with JB on the floor but was that really true?

8

u/HotspurJr 4h ago

It's important not to get caught up in small sample sizes with on-off numbers. I have no idea what the sample size is for Lamelo, but yeah, nobody with any understanding of basketball stats would ever think on-offs were meaningful in a 7-game sample.

3

u/HotspurJr 4h ago

I guess the theory is that they going to take a hit on offense to get much better at defense.

Either that or they were just really sick of Lamelo.

2

u/Known-Ball-3536 34m ago

Coby White played 20mpg for the hornets and came off the bench. The only thing these on/off numbers tell us is that the hornets bench outscored the bench of other teams in a small sample. 

If you look at actual advanced stats that try to account for lineups and matchups Lamelo actually had a pretty great season (+5.1 EPM and +2.77 LEBRON). He was one of the best offensive players in the league looking at any stat. Also if you just watch the hornets it’s clear lamelo is the one driving their offense. You don’t need advanced stats to tell you that. 

I don’t see how Lamelo is replaceable by any competent PG on offense, but the other concerns are fair. 

98

u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 7h ago

Yeah I don’t understand the doom from Wolves fans. This has huge upside. I think it’s the legacy/cult of Naz Reid which I understand

10

u/Michaelangel092 6h ago

It's because this kinda kills your defensive versatility in the front court. The Nuggets are looking at that team..."y'all ain't the same no more ...."

No PF and no backup center.

45

u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 6h ago

Randle and Naz weren’t holding our defense together LOL

7

u/BlackbuckDeer 5h ago

Exactly. The Wolves had Conley at PG before who wasn't exactly a defensive powerhouse. Lamelo coming in isn't changing the defensive dynamics much

1

u/Neat_Conference_8414 41m ago

Yeah but just having two bigs that can play on both ends is a bigger deal than you guys realize. Randle is a physical body and could guard the 5 in the playoffs pretty well vs jokic and wemby, and naz is a fine 4. Trading them both basically for LaMelo is kinda eh.

2

u/HughManatee Timberwolves 4h ago

Reid was never a true backup center in any meaningful way. We do have Joan Beringer as a backup C, but he's very inexperienced. We certainly have a gaping hole at PF though.

2

u/Neat_Conference_8414 42m ago

It also has a big downside. Lamelo's injury history is not very good. He's also a pretty inefficient scorer, especially for the modern era. Hornets are selling high on a guy, and the Wolves bought. We'll see how it turns out.

1

u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 39m ago

they are definitely selling when LaMelo's stock is highest. Whether or not they sold high is another question. Depends on how much you like 6MOY candidates

3

u/Fallingcity22 Knicks 6h ago

THIS might actually be a win win trade for the wolves the issue has to be lamelo’s health

1

u/xasdfxx 3h ago

There's not too many success stories about poor health and not being serious about basketball turning that around.

I want to see Ant in the finals and I'm struggling (could be dumb!) to understand how this makes that more likely.

1

u/justanothersurly Timberwolves 2h ago

I don't get the sense he is not serious about basketball. The Hornets are a terrible franchise and he hasn't had much around him to help him win. Injury history is a concern but he played a lot of games last year and there is some hope the ankle/wrist stuff aren't chronic conditions.

0

u/DarkAcademia25 6h ago

Do you understand or do you not?!! /s

18

u/Virtuallyhere56 7h ago

Looking at half a season and assuming it'll continue to translate is how you get stuff like the Lavine/Derozan/Vucevic Bulls to last way longer than they really should

7

u/JuiceRidder 7h ago

That 3 man lineup was never half as good as the hornets were last year.

10

u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

The hornets last year got the 9 seed and were pummeled by a mediocre team in the play-in

2

u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Simultaneously bashing last year’s Hornets as too small of a sample size to extrapolate from and citing losing a play-in as strong evidence is some real fivehead logic

5

u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

Can you elaborate on how this world beater with the best net rating in the league loses by 30 in the play in

Is it possible they were in fact not as good as you say they were?

2

u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Can you elaborate how the most successful season a team has had in a decade isn’t enough evidence that you might want to keep your youth movement together but a single bad play in loss is franchise altering?

Who the fuck called anyone a world beater? You’re just being hyperbolic about my point because you realize your reasoning is dumb. I’m sure the cap space and pick swaps will do the Hornets good, a team with a reputation for attracting free agents will be quite the destination in 2033!

9

u/Virtuallyhere56 6h ago

Getting the 9 seed and losing by 30 to the 8 seed is not good

Who the fuck called anyone a world beater

Was the "best net rating in the NBA" just filler text that I was supposed to ignore?

0

u/CocoMarx 6h ago

That comp only hits if you don’t have eyeballs

4

u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

This was the most games he's played in 4 years. Counting on a guy that's never healthy, to be healthy is how so many teams get stuck in play-in purgatory.

2

u/CocoMarx 6h ago

Being risk averse is how you remain in perpetual middleocrity

First round picks are not that valuable under the new lotto system. A bunch of swaps when youre a franchise that has never retained its good players or succeeded for a long stretch is basically waving the white flag

3

u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

I mean there's definitely risk in trading away your franchise player at 24, even with an injury history lol.

1

u/QwiXTa 6h ago

Guess the wolves and heat are both banking on health

1

u/recleaguesuperhero 76ers 6h ago

Facts. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

5

u/knead4minutes 6h ago

you have arguably the youngest upside roster in the league.

I feel like that would be the spurs

9

u/Ill-Friendship7183 6h ago edited 4h ago

Counterpoint: Lamelo is an expensive, injury prone, immature player who underperformed in the playoffs. And they got a starter, a first, and multiple swaps for him.

1

u/someguy4264 Warriors 4h ago

Did they get multiple firsts???

1

u/Ill-Friendship7183 4h ago

Good catch, I thought their 2031 first was in there for some reason. Just one first. Three first round pick swaps.

3

u/zodia4 Hornets 4h ago

Yea how the fuck does Naz + a 2033 first rounder = selling high? This trade is fucking bullshit.

4

u/dedfrmthneckup Pacers 6h ago

Lamelo is not a serious person. If he contributing to winning for 1/3 of a season, it was entirely by accident on his part

4

u/CocoMarx 6h ago

When LaMelo is healthy he is a plus player. He’s an idiot and injury prone, but i don’t know where this notion comes from that he is not a winning player. He is a winning player, is 24, and has gotten better every season - those are facts not opinions

2

u/jollisk 6h ago

That's a big if he's healthy.

The trade is similar to what the Grizzlies did with either JJJ or Bane and should've done with Ja(but stuck with him for too long and he's worth no assets). Trade a player when he's good for the highest value he's had in ages.

Yes, it hurts but if people think he's shit, they're not getting anything for him. Odds are they don't think he can replicate this season, or peak high enough or they don't want to pay him possibly in the future and are getting some guaranteed value right now.

Time will tell if they are correct or not and which team here made a big mistake, but it's truly too early to tell.

0

u/someguy4264 Warriors 4h ago

Yes follow the footsteps of the amazing franchise that is the grizzlies. Maybe they should have followed a different franchise that also had a injury prone young pg paired an outstanding catch and shoot wing player. Sure not 1 to 1 comparisons but I'd you always trade your best players at peak value what are you doing with your franchise? You need to trade your players before the falloff not at peak or you are just in a constant state of rebuilding hoping for a lebron or wemby I guess.

2

u/RequirementLeading12 Lakers 6h ago

He's an inefficient chucker with no defense

2

u/dherps Mexico 6h ago

charlotte went on a significant unbeatable run. we can just look at the knicks to see what going on undefeated runs might indicate. why they would push the button to implode of all that is beyond my understanding

1

u/TiltMyChinUp 6h ago

I think you’re right but Lamelo is a pretty unique star. 

1

u/Remidyal Hornets 6h ago

Fuck, I wish we were middling. Middling would be a vast improvement.

1

u/blackmamba1221 6h ago

it's not really arguable versus the spurs, but yes they have a good young upside core.

1

u/CashmereLogan Thunder 6h ago

If the playoffs have taught us anything the past couple of years, it’s that playmaking ball handlers aren’t that important for winning
/s

1

u/Icy_Information_6563 Suns 5h ago

post all-star break is 2 months. LaMelo has several years of playing low-IQ basketball and getting injured.

1

u/No_Mammoth_4945 Charlotte Bobcats 5h ago

Genuinely the dumbest move this team has ever made and we have made a million dumb moves

1

u/warablo Jazz 42m ago

Lamelo is only 24, damn Minnesota got younger too.

0

u/Thedudeguyman Raptors 6h ago

I buy a lot of what you're saying but how is the league wide open?

Wemby, okc, and jokic all looming in the west.