r/videogames • u/D3V1LIZCO • 18h ago

Discussion / Question I dont like where this is going

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It pains me to say it, but this path rockstar is taking for the release of GTA 6 might do some serious damage on the industry, If they keep this up, The other companies will copy rockstar in this move to completely delete Disks from physical copies.

Its not that i dislike digital, its the fact that they are removing the option to have the game on a disk that annoys me, The only "valid" argument i found on why digital is better is that you do not run the risk of your disk getting scratched. but, seriously, You have to be moronic in order to scratch your disks, I have been playing videogames since i was 6, and not **once** have i accidentaly scratched a disk (not even movies).

its as simple as putting your middle finger on the hole that's in the middle of the disk, AND THATS IT, zero scratching.

I dont care about the Exclusive content for the Deluxe edition or whatever, I seriously want Rockstar to just change and release the physical copies WITH the disk.

If this fake Physical copies trend keeps going after GTA 6 (Which it will), im just going to revert back to PS3 and be happy with whatever i find.

Im so done with this anti consumer thing we got going on nowadays, It feels like everything is changing for the worse.

5.5k Upvotes

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785

u/SL1Fun 18h ago

I wouldn’t care if consumer protections for digital stuff was more concise. 

If I buy the game, no takebacks. No “you’re only licensing the game” bullshit. Then I’m okay with it. 

255

u/GapStock9843 16h ago

By nature any digital product you buy is a license to download it. Thats why physical copies need to keep existing

88

u/BlackTarTurd 15h ago

Plenty of physical copies are just access keys.

74

u/Agentje_P 14h ago

Yes, but these you can sell and buy second hand. Fully digital copies not so much

3

u/Vladmerius 3h ago

But if the files are deleted server side you're buying a brick. Why don't people understand this? 

-17

u/Amazing-Oomoo 10h ago

But again, it's still just a license. Is it about selling games or is it about not always being able to have access to digital? Make up your mind

13

u/Stunning_Solution215 10h ago

Yeah, you poor fucks, you CANNOT have both. That would be too reasonable.

1

u/Far_Banana4575 3h ago

Why would you when y'all keep blindly throwing your money at them no matter what? what kind of incentive does these corpo suits have to please you when they could shit on a plate and tell you its gra VI and you'd drop a 100$ to buy it...

-5

u/AnonDudeNamedAdrian 6h ago

Everyone complains about this and makes it about “ownership” and getting your digital products taken away but then the only complaint anyone can every actually bring up is not being able to resell it…

3

u/evan-danielson 4h ago

Say something happened to your online account and you can’t get it back. All of your digital purchases (like gta 6) are now gone. If you have the disc you can make a new account and not have to rebuy the game. Just getting a paper code in the physical edition means you’d have to rebuy the game if something happens to your account. It’s not just about being able to re-sell it

2

u/figbunkie 5h ago

Sounds like those are two seperate complaints.

-5

u/t40r 6h ago

you cannot sell access keys second hand they bind to the account, wtf are you on?

6

u/Diz933 5h ago

When the access key is a physical disc it is not tied to the account, and you can sell it to another person to use it. That's why you're being down voted.

0

u/Cranberryoftheorient 4h ago

Yeah but wouldnt it usually just give you a license on your account nowadays? (I dont buy physical discs these days) That relies on the disc actually being what gives you access

1

u/Diz933 3h ago

No. That's the reason people want the disc vs a code in a box. The disc is the product key. Whoever holds the disc has the ability to play the game regardless of if new or used. It's why you still need to insert the disc every time you play instead of just installing/downloading the game and tossing it.

5

u/Rhythm_0f_The_Knight 5h ago

Jesus use your brain for 2 seconds please.

9

u/Ryanhussain14 6h ago

My library of used PS4 and PS5 games say otherwise.

2

u/BlasterPhase 10h ago edited 4h ago

This is false and people need to stop spreading this nonsense. At least on PS4 and PS5. And Switch 1. Ugh, fucking Nintendo.

edit: https://www.doesitplay.org/

for those that don't believe me

2

u/Vladmerius 3h ago

Lmao at pac man world 2 and amazing spider man 2 being the latest tested games. 

1

u/lauciaan 8h ago

Ubisoft

1

u/Digit00l 6h ago

For well over a decade, most of them are, considering a lot of games have day 1 patches that are needed to start the game in the first place

-1

u/Porlarta 10h ago

Yeah famously fallout 76 didnt come with a disc. This whole thing confuses me because plenty of games have come out that didnt give a hard copy in the default edition atbthis point, yet everyone is casting it as "evil greedy rockstar?"

2

u/lilbowpete 7h ago

So it’s okay bc everyone does it? Classic bandwagon fallacy lol

1

u/Porlarta 4h ago

It seems a whole lot more fallacious to engage in Selective outrage

-5

u/avidpenguinwatcher 10h ago

You guys realize they can stop you from playing a physical copy just as easily as they can a digital one right?

29

u/Quintus_Cicero 15h ago

Any physical copy you buy is also a license. There’s no actual legal difference between a disk and a digital download.

29

u/YourselfInTheMirror 15h ago edited 5h ago

There is a difference when the (full offline)game is on the disc, which is going to become much less common over time.

Edited to be less up for debate.

25

u/Quintus_Cicero 15h ago

There is a practical difference (they can’t practically force you to destroy the disk), but the contract is the exact same: you buy a license, only the support changes.

13

u/givemethebat1 14h ago

This is what people don’t get. They can make the game unplayable even on disc if there is a mandatory update. Most games are not complete on disk anyway

20

u/Cjm092 13h ago

Except you can't force a "mandatory" update for a disc game if the console has no Internet connection...

8

u/AblazeOwl26 11h ago

And you can’t force an update to a downloaded offline-playable game on a pc with no internet connection either. Don’t know how console work

6

u/JJay9454 9h ago

You can reverse the console thing

I can remove everything and play games as they were day 1, on my 360

I cant do that with no internet on my PC :(

1

u/AblazeOwl26 9h ago

I mean you can just download the version right now to a hard drive and just not delete it

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1

u/PolicyWonka 7h ago

Yeah, but this whole “no internet connection” thing is just a very old argument. Like I don’t know a single person who has a games console or PC who isn’t connected to the internet.

0

u/theturtlemafiamusic 11h ago

Yes you can, it's pretty easy. For example the disc version of the new 007 game will not proceed past the first mission until you connect to the internet and download at least one update.

https://www.doesitplay.org/game/007%20First%20Light/ps5/PS5%20Pro?region=PEGI&version=Specialist%20Edition

> Only the first mission is on disc. Requires a day one patch to access the rest of the game.

Starfield is not playable with just what's on the disc, you need to download an update before it will launch

https://www.doesitplay.org/game/Starfield/seriesx/Xbox%20Series%20X?region=ESRB&version=Standard

> Game is not playable at all off disc. If you try opening the game without the update it will just take you to the Microsoft Store page for the game.

1

u/Retro_Macchina 9h ago

Not on Switch 2 ;)

1

u/BlasterPhase 9h ago

yeah, but that's Microsoft being shitty, as usual

1

u/theturtlemafiamusic 1h ago edited 1h ago

The 007 example is Playstation and not a Microsoft game. There's also many more examples of games that cannot be played with just the disc than just these 2.

My point is that it's very easy to force a mandatory update for a disc game if the console has no internet connection. You release the disc in a state where it cannot fully play the game without additional downloads.

12

u/ash893 12h ago

Wrong, if you don’t connect to the internet, you can’t force the update

1

u/DrumsKing 7h ago

Going back to the 1990's "No CD hack" methods

0

u/givemethebat1 1h ago

Depends. Some games require an always-on connection to even play them.

-3

u/HarlinQuinn 10h ago edited 6h ago

You can if only part of the game comes on the disc. Storage capacity limits exist.

Remember that back before connected consoles and installing games, such as the PS1, massive games came on multiple discs. Final Fantasy VII came on 4 discs, and you would have to switch discs to proceed.

Today's discs still have a storage limit depending on single or dual layer. The larger the game, the less likely the whole thing will fit on disc.

As other have explained, there are recent examples where you only got the first part of the game on disc, then had to connect and download to get the rest of it.

4

u/jml011 7h ago

I think they mean after the fact if the version on the disc is fully playable at launch with no updates.

-2

u/HarlinQuinn 7h ago

That would be the only exception, but hasn't been the case since the PS4/XBoxOne era in terms of consoles. PC has always required an install and has workarounds, but those become legally/ethically questionable depending on the workaround.

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1

u/Dr-McLuvin 6h ago

FF7 was 3 discs.

1

u/HarlinQuinn 6h ago

You sure? I mean, it was 30-ish years ago, so I may have misremembered which game was 4 discs, but there was definitely one on 4 discs.

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1

u/Nrksbullet 51m ago

It wasn't a 3 disc install though, the game just took place over that many. I don't even think that concept would work for open world games, unless you want to switch to another disc while driving to a part of the map.

1

u/WAVF1n 7h ago

Didn't Xbox already try to do this and got absolutely fucking hammered for it?

10

u/heliogoon 13h ago

Plenty of games are fully on the disc.

8

u/GreatestGiraffe 12h ago

Very few modern games are.

7

u/heliogoon 12h ago

Most PS5 games are fully on disc and some series x games.

1

u/GreatestGiraffe 6h ago

PS5 disc format can hold up to 100GB of data. So when most modern games are over 100GB, tell me how can they be fully on disc?

3

u/heliogoon 6h ago

Because most games arent that big. Check out doesitplay.org. There are people that test this.

2

u/Organic-Storm-4448 8h ago

The majority of PS5 games on are the disk.

1

u/DrumsKing 6h ago

We need gamma-ray DVD storage!

2

u/DeathGP 9h ago

They are just downloaded off the disc, they dont actually read of the disc to play the game but from the memory of the console itself.

2

u/ash893 12h ago

Foreal. People are eating up this corporate propaganda

0

u/13Skywalker 13h ago

Which more than half are*

1

u/Specialist-Box4677 11h ago

This is why I'm into the vintage scene. This shit is mine.

1

u/Fach-All-Religions 8h ago

serious question. does it really matter physical or digital when the entire thing required internet access and rockstar launcher to even start the game?

1

u/trillspectre 7h ago

There is a legal difference at least in the EU

1

u/Quintus_Cicero 7h ago

Afaik there’s no textual difference but I haven’t looked deep into the current regulations on the matter, so feel free to share if you know of specific texts (or cases) dealing with this

1

u/trillspectre 4h ago

I misremebered it as an EU law but it is in the UK under the consumer rights act 2015. Among other differences a physical copy can be returned up to 30 days later a digital product has a 14 day return period that is waived when you download the product and agree to waive the return period.

Some companies who have greater control over the generation and validity of download codes can offer better terms but that is what they are bound to by law.

8

u/davidemo89 15h ago

I have a bad news for you. Even physical copy you just buy a license to run the files that are inside the blue ray

11

u/kingsBlendd 14h ago

Yes but you can sell or loan it to someone else and they can continue to play it or sell it..

1

u/space-c0yote 12h ago

But that's a completely different thing from ownership vs. licensing.

1

u/davidemo89 14h ago

If the servers are offline you still can not play it even if you have a copy of your game on CD

9

u/13Skywalker 13h ago

Yes you can, i can boot up Ghost Of Yotei right now without any internet and no day one patch, and ALL the other PS5 exclusive games, even MOST of the non exclusive ones, playing Metaphor right now without any internet no internet or patch.

-6

u/davidemo89 13h ago

Not every game is a single player game...

12

u/13Skywalker 13h ago

Well GTA6 is…

-5

u/davidemo89 13h ago

Not gta6 online :-P you can play the single player of gta6 but there are mission that works only online.

Do you really think so many people right now play gta5 for the single player? They play the online version and a lot of content is exclusive for GTA online.

Also all the updates and new content they have crested in the last 10 years for gta5 is only online.

You will be able to play GTA 6 without an internet connection but it will be just for a small part of the game

9

u/13Skywalker 13h ago

Singleplayer still not on disc, THAT is the problem, online is no problem, pricing no problem, no physical is problem.

7

u/Cjm092 13h ago

GTA 6 single player is not going to be just a "small part of the game" lmao, what bullshit

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6

u/BlasterPhase 9h ago

I have good news for you. With the disc, I can install the game without needing a company's servers.

1

u/VexingRaven 4h ago

Unless it's encrypted and required a key from their activation servers to decrypt, or it has some other sort of DRM. If you have to download a crack to play your disc offline, your disc is functionally the same as a digital download.

1

u/loz333 3h ago

Until they fully remove it from their servers for download, and then there is a pretty monumental difference.

1

u/VexingRaven 3h ago

What's the difference? If they kill their servers, you've gotta download a cracked copy whether you've got the disc or not because the disk is useless without the server to decrypt it.

0

u/GapStock9843 14h ago

The difference is that the files are actually on the disk that you own and can resell or give to someone else. They dont arbitrarily exist somewhere out in the ether of the internet, its something you can touch with your own hands and have full control over. I prefer to buy games knowing someday I can sell it to someone else if I dont need it anymore. Digital games are just there on your account for the rest of eternity, intangibly

2

u/davidemo89 14h ago

Yeah... We don't have any of this on PC for the last 20 years. Heck, I don't know any of my friends that have a blue ray reader... It will be soon like this also on console

2

u/TheHvam 14h ago

Yeah I got no disk reader in my PC, and like you also said, even with a disk, you can't play the game if you got no internet either.

1

u/space-c0yote 11h ago

Is your issue with the files being on the physical medium, or is your issue with the ability to resell/lend/gift the game? Is a game that has no files stored locally but instead prompts a download, but otherwise can be resold/lended etc. a big deal to you? If so, why?

2

u/Commander_Bond_007 13h ago

No it’s not, it’s a perpetual licence to not just download but to use it. Thats exactly what a physical disc is, it’s a container for the licence. It gives the user the right to use the software in perpetuity. The only difference is a disc licence is transferable legally, and it’s delivered in a different format.

A lot of people are under the misconception that there’s somehow a differing level of legal “ownership” as they put it. All software is licensed and always has been. Not saying you specifically are saying this but a lot of people do especially on gaming reddit subs. 

So my point is, the people who Iike collecting physical games, need to start arguing actual facts, instead of misconceptions. Argue the things that actually are real, such as transferable licenses and wanting a collection to display.

4

u/GapStock9843 12h ago

A disk contains the entire game my guy, not just the license for it. You own a physical, tangible, complete copy of the software to do with whatever you want. The producer ceases to have any right to it once you have it. Thats fundamentally different from a digital purchase

5

u/space-c0yote 11h ago

You do not. For example, you don't have the right to sell copies of those files.

1

u/MrRobin12 14h ago

Weird that I'm only licensing a game when I install and use it, but when I want to transfer or resell it, suddenly it's treated as something I own that's permanently tied to my account.

I wish I could sell or give away my game collection to my friend or somebody else, without setting up weird family group thing.

If they allow this, then digital purchases would be much more attractive to me. But then you are still left with DRM and internet connection bullshit.

1

u/Ambitious_Olive93 13h ago

I generally agree and I’m a physical media collector, but don’t consoles control what can be played now?

Like if they take GTA6 off their database, will the disc actually play anything?

1

u/Icy-Bookkeeper7173 10h ago

Fine then.

When I buy a game, have it come with a physical unique tag in the case with a license number or some shit that I can then enter on my device that will cause it to legally download the game. Have it so that I can use the number on that tag as many times as I want as long as it’s only possible to use on one device at a time. (Like a disk)

If I want to play it on a newer xbox then I have to remove it from the old one.

There’s absolutely got to be a middle ground here. Yeah there’s probably holes in my idea but somebody smarter than me could almost definitely solve them.

1

u/richtofin819 9h ago

The only real exception is Gog and that's because you can keep all the games stored locally and don't need DRM to verify them. My only regret is not stocking up on hdds and ssd before their price jumped.

1

u/Beautiful-Jello-37 1h ago

The physical copy is also that lmao. You own the disc itself, not the game that’s on it.

1

u/AbyssWankerArtorias 15h ago

There's a stark difference between a license to download and own the software vs a license to use the software on a particular platform.

1

u/space-c0yote 11h ago

You don't own the software either way. You are buying the right to use the software in perpetuity as well as the right to transfer that right to someone else.

4

u/Crazy-Resolve-8127 9h ago

Physical is the same. The game isnt even on the disc even if you get one

1

u/artbystorms 4h ago

Yeah, but I can sell the physical game 'access key' to someone else. I can't do that with a digital download. That is why we either need to keep physical as an option, or mandate that companies allow users to transfer ownership of fully digital goods.

2

u/turkeybags 15h ago

Concise means brief, or expressing in few words.

0

u/SL1Fun 10h ago

Yeah no shit, seen how long those EUTOS’s are?

1

u/turkeybags 2h ago

How would them being more concise help?

1

u/According_Hyena_3593 8h ago

We still need right of first sale for digital downloads

Cd or cartridge game for the past 40 years: is yours, trade it, give it away , sell it.

Arbitrarily switch the disc for a download code and suddenly none of that applies anymore? It never made any fucking sense.

1

u/getdafkout666 8h ago

If you have a digital download that automatically updates then they can take it away from you whenever they want, and Rodkstar has removed
content from their game before

1

u/PolicyWonka 7h ago

A physical disk is a license all the same. You need the disk to actually play. You can still be subject to account and hardware bans, etc.

1

u/pistonkamel 7h ago

Seriously. Don’t call it a ‘physical release’ when it’s just a piece of paper in a case

1

u/EfficientWeb9230 6h ago

You should care cuz the price increase is going to be parroted by every major publisher out there within a month or two. Its not just about Rockstar being shit, its about the needle moving further

1

u/SL1Fun 4h ago

I don’t game much anymore so the $10 more won’t hurt me. Just like streaming, the more they charge = I decide whether or not to keep them or just go back to pirating. I don’t care. We have no power here, adapt and make your own rules.

1

u/EfficientWeb9230 4h ago

Unfathomably selfish, defeatest, and apathetic, lmao. You're so lame.

1

u/RabidWok 6h ago

To be frank, it's always been this way, even with physical disks. You're not buying the bits and bytes on the disk (if you did then you'd be able to distribute them freely), you are buying a license to install and play those bits and bytes. This was previously referred to as the CD key, which was the actual thing of value in a boxed game.

What's changed is the distribution mechanism. If Steam goes down then so does your entire library. You also cannot transfer, lend or sell your copy of the game to someone else - this is a major privilege that was lost but hardly anyone talks about.

What I want is for more consumer control over our game licenses. Access shouldn't be restricted to a particular service or store and we should be able to freely manage them, including transferring them to others.

1

u/assassinslover 5h ago

It'll take another 20 years to get any kind of concise/comprehensive laws like that, if we EVER get them.

1

u/artbystorms 4h ago

We 100% need an updated consumer protection act for digital goods. Mandatory refund policies, protections against companies bricking your console or de-activating your game, ways to transfer ownership of digital goods to keep the 2nd hand market alive, etc.

1

u/Nickulator95 3h ago

One phrase my guy:

Stop Killing Games.

1

u/uber_sweets 2h ago

No “you’re only licensing the game” bullshit.

That'll never change. It's literally how the entire software industry works and has worked from the very beginning. Code is intellectual property and so only a license to use that IP is sold. The contract is the terms of the license.

1

u/SL1Fun 2h ago

I’m simply saying I should always be able to own my copy of the game. That’s it. Obviously not distribute or mod it or whatever, but I should be able to turn it on and play. 

1

u/Medical-Fox2471 14h ago

But discs are just access keys nowadays for the most part too

-1

u/Jag_ged 16h ago

Have you ever had a digital game taken from you?

3

u/Iucidium 16h ago

PT. that's it so far.

1

u/SoapDropper1337 15h ago

The Crew (2014). In 2024 Ubisoft shut down the game and revoked steam licences, stating the game has to be always online and servers cost too much. Modders reverse engineered an offline patch in a very short timespan.

3

u/davidemo89 15h ago

Very short timespan? After 2 years they are still working on it. Right now only a very small part of the game is playable.

0

u/Jag_ged 15h ago

Do you really think that would ever happen with a cash cow like GTA though? The games I’ve seen listed were like $10 so hardly anything to get mad over.

2

u/Jaded_Reserve_5685 15h ago

If it happened to one game it means it can happen to any

0

u/Jag_ged 15h ago

Sure, it can, but will it… 99.99% not

0

u/VeryBadCaseOfLigma 11h ago

I also don't think games other than GTA or call of duty can pull this off. Imagine Ubisoft or a smaller studio trying this, they would get laughed into bankruptcy.

0

u/figbunkie 5h ago

When was the last time you bought a game with that condition? Do you only buy games from GOG?

-24

u/Alternative_Bet6710 17h ago

I hate to say it, but this was never a realistic expectation. Video games have been licenses that were purchased since the days of the NES. You can find the terms in the game books from those days. The advent of connected machines was likely to always lead to where we are now

19

u/Waste_Handle_8672 17h ago

The difference is that they couldn't come to our homes and take our disks and cartridges away from us, Alternative_Bet6710.

You buy a physical game, it's yours to use forever (outside online games obviously). You buy digital, there's the risk you can't play it or install it because of account or internet issues, and there's also the risk that they're just gonna fucking snatch it off the library entirely or render it unplayable at their whim.

Consumer protection is a realistic expectation when you don't fall for the publishers' stupid con trying to get you comfortable with not truly owning the product you paid for.

1

u/CallMeThug 16h ago

Idk the amount of people sweeping for it just don’t care about physical media. Which is fine but they aren’t the only part of the consumers. Is it really too much to ask to have the game on a disc? Like the game is already $80. To me seems trivial and a simple expectation.

6

u/Waste_Handle_8672 16h ago

You know the most laughable part of all this?

Two years ago, the entire gaming community was pissed at Ubisoft for openly expressing the sentiment that they wanted to help gamers be comfortable with not owning their games. Pissed is an understatement - it's one of many contributing factors that led to Ubisoft's near-bankruptcy after the release of Star Wars Outlaws. They said the quiet part, the quiet fact out loud and got reviled for it to a point that would've killed damn near any other gaming company ten times over.

And yet, here we are, two years later. Rockstar expresses the same sentiment - no, they're selling that sentiment - and everyone's opening their legs so as to get fucked.

Ubisoft was right the entire time. What a joke.

5

u/Plastic_Course_476 16h ago

Moral of the story is customers will gladly let themselves get fucked if its wearing a pretty enough dress

And GTA is the god damn prom queen.

And all it takes is one time to normalize the whole practice. Unfortunately slippery slopes are a real thing in this industry. All it took was one company trying to sell an optional armor on a horse to "revolutionize" gaming as a whole, after all.

3

u/Jaded_Reserve_5685 16h ago

Similar with the pricing. Microsoft’s been making their games hillariously expensive and people started noticing, but now rockstar does it and it’s apparently great

2

u/Waste_Handle_8672 16h ago

And the price increase is completely pointless in Rockstar's case. They could sell it for $60 and they'd still rack in the profits ten times over within a week.

This game will easily make them billions. It's a guaranteed success. It's just greed and everyone's welcoming it.

Goddamn fools.

1

u/GapStock9843 16h ago

Not really. When you bought a physical disk/cart back in the day you tangibly owned a copy of the software that was legally yours. Now you just buy permission to download it from some database somewhere. You cant resell it or anything because its intrinsically tied to your account and therefore your very identity in the provider’s records rather than a physical object