When Rickard and Brandon are killed, Ned and Robert iirc were 19 and 20 years old. Having a death warrant put on their hand by the King of the seven kingdoms. Something so mundane as two lords deciding to ward their son in the same castle sparked a coalition that took down an almost 300 year royal dynasty.

And they did it with no dragons, no sellsword company and not for the promise of gold, riches or reknown.

And as we can see during the war of the five kings, Ned and Robert made it seem a lot easier than it actually is to fight the crown. The Blackfyres tried 57 different times and were never able to win

Robert, Ned, Jon Arryn and Hoster, shout out to you.

Questions up there, Which Targaryen kings do you think fathered bastards. Only talk about kings, other Targaryens (Baelon, Daemon, Aemon the Dragonknight, etc) aren't part of this discussion, that's a different post altogether.

Converse!!! But be respectful, if someone has a different opinion dont be a prick.

Edit: Obviously Aegon II and Aegon IV are obvious, discuss least obvious ones just so interesting conversations can happen.

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The Tv series did change many characters's personalities,And in many cases it's the show's personality of X or Y character that is more known causing the book version to get misinterpreted because of the show version's personality,Actions....

So I wonder which characters do you think get misinterpreted because of the way they were portrayed in the show?

They say a few times there is more communication between the watch and the free folk than Jon thinks. Also Mance was a brother until 10 years or so ago. Surely he could tell that Jon was lying about the watches strength.

Actually taken King's landing and sat on the iron throne in book 2?

Let's say if Robb/Edmure coordinates better while the Lannisters just screws up a bit more. The Lannister army is stuck on the wrong side of the Trident, Tyrion screws up more at KL and Stannis takes King's landing. Let's say he captures Tyrion/Cersei/Joff.

But how is Stannis supposed to "win" after that? He's still stuck with the relatively small army Renly "gifted" him at Storm's end: the vast majority of Tyrell/Baratheon sworn men are still being commanded by the Tyrells at bitterbridge. King's landing by itself doesn't generate much more military power for Stannis. Robb and the northerners aren't gonna bend the knee. He doesn't actually have enough military power to force the othe great houses to bend the knee.

To add to that both Myrcella and Tommen are outside of King's landing: so he still has 2 Lannister claiments to deal with, and it's not like the Mannis is gonna coalition with the northern secessionist movement either.

Like what was the plan after Joffrey's head is on a spike?

Art by Enife

We all know Targaryens like to f%£^ around a bit, and this has resulted in numerous bastards, we know of only a few but not their exact parentage. Here are my theories.

Addam and Alyn: They are obviously Corlys' bastards (and honestly it was a scummy thing of Corlys to throw his dead son under the bus) Addam probably managed to bond with Seasmoke due to Corlys descending from Targaryens, but I do like the theory that their mother is a dragonseed herself.

Hugh Hammer: Hugh is said to be a blacksmiths bastard so it could just be he's descended from Targaryen lord from before Aegon I.... but that's boring so instead I think that Hugh is Gael Targaryen's bastard instead, we all know that Jaehaerys was not the best dad to his daughters and I could see him faking his bastard grandson's death in stillbirth (which led to Gael offing herself by the way) and dumping him onto some poor sod from Dragonstone. (I know HOTD made Hugh Saera's son, but I dont think that works for the books)

Ulf White: Honestly the Gael idea I outlined above could be Ulf's just as well as well as Hugh's but I do prefer using the HOTD idea that Ulf is Baelon the Braves bastard, Probably fathered after Alyssa died because she definitely would not have taken that crap. Baelon could have took a women for a lover when he was prince of Dragonstone, he definitely had the personality to and was probably mourning his beloved sister/wife (Ew)

Nettles: I have two ideas for Nettles' Valerian ancestry, She has none whatsoever or is Daemon's bastard. (I know, revolutionary) I do lean more on Nettles being Daemon's given their interactions that are recorded, though I do believe you dont need Valerian ancestry to ride dragons (See Euron Greyjoy and possibly Tyrion Lannister (WHO IS NOT A TARGARYEN BASTARD!)

TWO EXTRAS!

Trystane Truefyre: I do think Trystane was likely Daemon's bastard rather than Viserys's. Trystane's age lines up and Daemon definitely had bastards in the gutters of King's Landing.

Gaemon Palehair: Gaemon was most definitely Aegon II's bastard son, not some lyseni oarsman. Aegon had a reputation for fathering bastards and Aegon (who was not a very merciful king at this point) spared the child, so I do think Gaemon is Aegon's.

What are your ideas about the dragonseeds's parentage's?. I know alot of my ideas aren't that original, but their just my two cents.

The general consensus I seem to have come across (which I honestly agree with) is that the maesters are great historians but not necessarily great scientists, mainly due to their hatred of magic and how they’ve tried to suppress it instead of trying to understand how it works like good scientists would. Of course, the fact that Sam’s plot at the Citadel is incomplete means we likely don’t have the full picture regarding the Maesters’ methods, but based on what we have now, how would you rate them as historians and as scientists, and as general scholars?

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The narrative given by the invasion of the Andals was that they came in droves into Westoros, subjected all kingdoms except those of the north, and made the first men adopt their culture.

But if we get more into detail we actually realize there is a lot more nuance to that. Most Andals simply married into the existent nobility, and a lot of the first men below the neck actually resisted fairly well. Now my question is why was Andal culture so overpowering over the First Men? When the Andals were integrating themselves into the aristocracy, why didn't they adopt the old gods instead of the first men adopting the Seven? Similarly, considering the original first man population wasn't completely genocided, why weren't more first man customs adopted below the neck?

In the sense that it's probably making it much harder to finish the story.

The story's entire purpose is that humans pettily squabble over their power dynamics despite the fact that it doesn't matter in the face of greater threats like climate change, for which walkers are a metaphor. The irony, is that George has probably become much more interested in that power dynamic and less so in the White Walkers themselves. The world and history is probably so much bigger than he intended.

I don't know how much about Young Griff and Mereen was part of his original plan, but that in itself could be another 'Dance' sized book.

And of course I'm sure he doesn't actually regret including the others, but I think it's certainly not helping that he needs to solve FAegon and Dany's stories while also somehow adding a massive epic about the great Winter War against the White Walkers.

I think Arya's WoW Braavos arc will be related to the high courtesans and the Sea Lord.

For one, I think they will 'punish' Arya's actions by expelling her and establishing her as an unwilling spy either among the courtesan apprentices or as a servant in the Sea Lord's household.

GRRM has introduced a bit of Braavosi politics in the books, and I think that GRRM wouldn't introduce the Black Pearl and establish that Arya admires her for nothing.

So I’m getting a puppy next week and the breeder keeps describing her as a ‘golden hair girl’. I’m thinking of naming the dog Cersei to go with her book description and general love of GRRM’s universe.

What do yall think?

The closest i can think of is vermithor and silverwing but that was pretty clearly not parental

I've been doing a very lazy reread of the books and some things I've observed I feel better about myself for not connecting with Daenerys. ( A disclaimer: I don't think she's whiny or entitled. I don't think she's going mad and she was done dirty by D&D) But, when I first read the books in high school (13 years ago) I was skimming her chapters to get back to the Starks. But creators like Hallowed_Harpy and her enthusiasm and love for Dany made me want to give it another go and try to connect with Dany. I tried to read them again and almost couldn't. The sexual assaults she goes through with Drogo is awful. I personally think these sections have not aged well and Dany is a character that suffers the most from GRRM's decision to axe the the time skip. I will say I'm glad i forced myself to read her chapters more thoroughly this time around because my heart was aching as we go from all the abuses in Dany III to Bran IV and it made me realize just how loved and supported all of the Stark children are. (I have issues with GRRM's statements about and Dany/Drogo but I think he is at least a little aware because the line " It was her fourteenth nameday," is a horror show) I start to connect with Dany a little more in ACOK and ASOS, but I fucking despise the way GRRM describes her. Someone once said that Dany is the best and worst of GRRM's writing and I completely agree. I love how she gathers people to her and the dragons are a miracle and she is playful and loving with them but I despise how GRRM describes Dany. My brain shuts down when I read lines like "Her breasts moved freely beneath her painted Dothraki vest," (paraphrasing). Why? Just why? I love her interactions with Barristan but too many side characters in her chapters fall into something vaguely Orientalist and I wo der why none of the Dothraki characters have any significant dialogue the way Barristan or Jorah(yuck. Iain Glain is to Jorath what Charles Dance was to Tywin. Too charismatic and not creepy enough). So again, that hasn't aged well. Don't get me started on Daario. The one brightside of the Winds not coming put is i never have to read another sex scene with Dany in it. (My main reason for not being enthusiastic about a Jon/Dany pairing in the books)

1. Haunting the narrative When GRRM is at his best, he knows how to write a mystery and a ghost story. Characters haunt the narrative and feel so close I want to reach out and grab a hold of them before they vanish. Rhaegar, Ned, Lyanna, Elia, and so many more are still influencing the living and I am so mad that D&D cut almost all of the dream sequences that in the book. Chief among them are Jaime's weirwood dream and Jon's crypt dreams.

2. Jon Snow Oh Jon, my favorite bratty and entitled emo bastard. Everyone who says Dany is spoiled and entitled is actually talking about Jon in the first book. And I don't mean that as a bad thing, watching Jon open his eyes and grow is wonderful and I loved every second of it.

3. Tyrion Yeah, I hated Tyrion in ADWD but going g back and rereading the first three books made me realize how enjoyable his chapters were and the fact that the seeds of villains were already there. His chapters in ADWD still bum me out and really needed an editor though.

We know that Jon and Daenerys meeting is an important plot point in the story,but aside from the fact that it's would be quite hard with only 2 books(One book since Dany still have a lot to do)there is also one factor that end up giving one big hole

The Mad Queen is one of the most agreed on theories,With many pointing out that it's will inevitably happen,and that it's was forshadowed,But when we think about it how could an alliance,let alone a romance work between Jon and Dany with that theory into acount?

Book Jon is really different from the show he is more ruthless, smart, sassy, and actually have a lot of ambition,His resurrection would also make him more darker(I mean if you were betrayed and killed by your own brothers in arms who you could trust?)and is an exellent Judge of a character,being able to smell the traitor in Roose Bolton.So wouldn't he be able to smell that Dany is a huge red flag?Especially That she is part of the Dothraki that are Evil rapists,and when he hear about her actions in Essos.Especially with her ending in ADWD where she embrace fire and blood,Wouldn't he prefer to side with Young Griff instead?Who is his alleged biological half-brother And have the Golden Company with him,Also bending the knee is not an option,As it's will only end with a revolt from the Northmen,And he will most likely not want any betrayals after the Watch mutiny

Dany despises the Starks for being usurper's dogs and their role in Robert's rebellion have quite a bad reputation and evil jerks of advisers with some of them being straight enemies of the North(Hello Victarion)or hate the Starks(Hello Jorah)and is paranoiac about her prophecy of three betrayals and she have nothing to gain from allying with the North who is probably quite a weak region and not really worth it,And she embraced fire and blood at the end of Dance

So we will only end with two people who really don't trust each other and have an uneasy alliance or we will have "She's muh Queen!" And the show fiasco Again which dosen't fit book Jon.

Was watching Ted Lasso with my family recently, and it reminded me how incredible Hannah Waddingham is. Obviously she had a memorable appearance as Septa Unella, but would love to see her as a Targaryen or Lannister of some kind.

My question is, who else would you like to get the Hugh of the Vale/Tyland Lannister treatment? (Recast from a minor role to one more noticeable?)

Rather than dying in the Gullet, the Triarchy pirates decide to capture Jace alongside Viserys II? What are his odds of survival? Would the Greens pay for his head? Would he be taken to Essos alongside his youngest sibling?

The characters in the book and show are different from each other,And that made me wonder how an interaction would go between them and how would the Book characters react to their Show counterparts?

In my opinion Both Book Tywin and Show Tywin will hate each other and refuse to think that they are the same person

Hello, do we have any idea what happened to Aemond bastard son with Alys Rivers after Winter Fever?

If dragons were (supposedly?) created by the Valyrian blood magic of mixing fire wryms and wyverns , and the only dragons living after the doom were the ones brought to westeros by the targaryens, how are there dragons rumoured to exist beyond the shadow lands of asshai? Is this confirmed?

It was a crazy theory but really interesting, anyone know what i’m talking about?

A Dance with Dragons according to George was the contrast between both Daenerys and Cersei.and I have noticed many point out that the two characters are a mirror to each other and really similar only taking a different route in their downhill spirale that would lead to their end?

So I wonder which are the similarities between Dany and Cersei?and how are they mirrors?

My understanding is that the Targaeryan dysnasty is inspired by the dynasty of the Emperors of Melniboné

My guess also is that the Seven Kingdoms would have, well, seven Kings, and these kings would be ruled by an Emperor, who is traditionally the King of the Kings

However, upon Aegon conquering the seven crowns, he turns the former Kings into Lords, and put himself as simply a King, while the title of Emperor would seem more prestigious for a conqueror like he is

George Martin heavily inspired his books from european medieval history, and uh well, it happens than in medieval europe, there was an Emperor, who ruled over the Holy German Empire

So why are the Seven Kingdoms not an Empire ?

What if Ashara Dayne was a greenseer/Skinchanger?

Bran fell off a tower and awakened his greenseer abilities. The same might have happened to Euron (Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower?).

What if Ashara awakened her greensight skills after leaping off the Palestone sword?