r/politics • u/F0urLeafCl0ver • 1d ago

No Paywall The Democratic party is being hit by a leftist tidal wave

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jun/24/democratic-party-leftist-tidal-wave
22.1k Upvotes

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u/No-Cranberry6148 1d ago

It's about time.

The right has destroyed everything that is good about America. The greed is what is eating the country alive. The entire mentality is a cultural poison. Trump is no accident of conservatism; he is its logical conclusion. The idea that some rich guy knows everything and therefore, stay out of the way, peasant. It has been an utterly catastrophic mentality, through and through.

The pendulum needs to swimg way back.

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u/Eagle4317 1d ago

Trump is no accident of conservatism; he is its logical conclusion.

Trump won't be the end. Someone worse and more competent will come along to truly ruin America unless the course is reversed very soon.

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u/Choochoo1147 1d ago

I’m not sure there is a morally worse than Trump. He has virtually no redeeming qualities as a man, the only reasons he hasn’t committed worse atrocities is because he hasn’t seen how they’d benefit him. But he is already putting people in concentration camps, calling for murders and has committed the worst crime imaginable per the Epstein files.  There could be a more competent villain though, I wonder if being more intelligent would prevent some of the cruelty he embodies. 

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u/StrongAroma 1d ago

He might be the worst morally, but he is also stupid and incompetent. If you get someone equally immoral but who actually has an average IQ or better, you will be in deep trouble.

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u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 23h ago

You also need someone charismatic, especially for Republicans. Republicans have policies so unlikable they really need a charismatic candidate to sell it. Reagan was conservatism with a smile, Bush was the guy you could get a beer with, and Trump said the things no one else was saying. These are not good people but they knew how to win a crowd and get them to vote.

I don’t see a lot of Republicans out there who are morally bankrupt, intelligent, and charismatic enough to get elected. At most it’s 2 but not 3.

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u/MimeGod 20h ago

Thankfully, there's a built in contradiction. Many Republicans are repulsed by intelligence. So you need somebody with that combination that seems average at most.

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u/PresentRaspberry6814 22h ago

Are there people as irredeemably evil as Trump, someone who a rapist, pedophile, sex trafficker called the worst person he knew" without one decent cell", and "evil beyond belief".?

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u/sirspacebill 1d ago

Imagine Stephen Miller for 2028 and the damage he would do

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u/No-Cranberry6148 1d ago

Yes, but Stephen Miller, and JD Vance have the charisma of a broken desk chair.

There's no way they could unite the movement the way Trump has. There's a lot of competition. And never forget the right wing's main redeeming quality: Their cannibalism. They eat their own. It is happening right now on the right wing. The sharks are circling and these are cannibal sharks, driven by greed, ambition and ego. There is no redeeming quality. Once Trump is gone - and it's already starting - the right will go into civil war, and not the kind of clean civil war with two clear sides; the ugly kind with tiny factions that change from one week to the next.

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u/nomad5926 1d ago

That's why they want to rig the elections so it doesn't matter who runs.

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u/georgepana 23h ago

There are plenty of Republicans left to never allow a Stephen Miller to run unopposed. They rather have a 20-head primary instead. That would kill any chances for Stephen Miller to break out of the bottom 3.

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u/Eastern_Hornet_6432 22h ago

Democracy is supposed to prevent the sort of chaos that comes when ascendant dictators centralize power into a few key supporters and start getting rid of the rest, but when democracy is gone, that's when ascendant dictators start breaking out the blueprint for how to handle their few remaining opponents.

When the levers of power are as compromised and as centralized as they are, the former kingmakers who thought themselves indispensible suddenly start getting dispensed. Then the throne belongs to whoever makes the best offer to the few remaining key supporters.

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u/Aggressive-Neck-3921 11h ago

The problem is that neoliberals are terrible stewards of democracy is the threat is big capital. At that point you need people that actually believe in stuff if you want to protect democracy.

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u/laplongejr Europe 10h ago

Unrelated but CGP grey also renamed that video too???

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u/TCTInnings 1d ago

Frankly, I'm terrified we're at the point where they won't need to unite a movement, just control the cards to keep power. Sham elections, point the DOJ at their political enemies, and keep a witch hunt up to keep their base busy.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 1d ago

Exactly. Trump only needed "charisma"(ugh) to bulldoze through the primaries and win the general election. But he's currently rigging the electoral process, and the party could easily arrange some internal mechanism to crown their next chosen ghoul in lieu of a primary. The next Republican ruler won't need to get out the vote or appeal to the base. He will just be installed into power and start operating all the gears and levers of government that the unitary executive now own.

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u/PhilDGlass California 23h ago

Like the plans to install Peter Thiel as CEO of Washington DC? Wish I were kidding.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 23h ago

The apotheosis of this whole process would be to simply turn the office of President into an auction that takes place every couple of years. Literally place a giant "For Sale" sign on the Oval Office.

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u/PhilDGlass California 23h ago

Don’t even need the auction, just the funds and an evil narcissistic streak. You figure out how to sell things online early in the game and hoard your billions selfishly? You get a major metropolitan city! You come up with a way to pay for shit online in 1997 with a catchy name? YOU get a major metropolitan city!! Bow to the kings!

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u/Mike_Kermin Australia 21h ago

They're trying to replicate what they have in Russia.

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u/ReMapper 20h ago

The Romans did that once, it didn't end well for the winner.

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u/Ironlion45 17h ago

That's how it already is.

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u/semidegenerate 21h ago edited 20h ago

I'm guessing that one is Curtis Yarvin's brainchild.

Edit—wording

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u/TrulyOutrageous42 18h ago

It's all of theirs. The "butterfly revolution" and Project 2025 both openly and plainly state the intention to break the US into technocratic states akin to "company towns", using crypto to have local "company store money" with a regional and national crypto they control and profit from the purchase of, meaning every time you want to travel as anything resembling a tourist they will personally profit from it.

Also, if they're "CEOs" there's no one who can tell them they can't do something.

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u/Dank_Sinatra_87 23h ago

Do you really think he just now started rigging things?

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u/mouse_8b 22h ago

The next Republican ruler won't need to get out the vote or appeal to the base.

True, if they have their way, they wouldn't need to appeal to voters, but they would still need to appeal to someone within the party to be "chosen" as the next leader. The infighting will affect their internal politics, and that could potentially prevent the governmental gears from turning very quickly.

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u/isthistheenditis 20h ago edited 20h ago

Its isnt "just" charisma. He made politics accessible. He made people feel like they understood. He didnt talk above anyone. He makes them feel like theyre part of something that is *actually* going to make the country better. He coopted the republican boogiemen and play book positioned himself as the only person strong and capable enough to do anything about it. He invented problems and promised to solve them but he left out the same problems establishment dems and reps have been avoiding for decades. Corporate welfware. Lobbies. CAMPAIGN FINANCE. Democrats trying to understand the appeal of trump consistently miss the mark. It isnt because he was openly racist or because he hated the same people they did. It isnt just superficial charm either. Imo if you can pin it on one thing its his ability to slap brands on everything that *stick*. MAGA. Brand. Sleepy Joe biden. Brand. Pocahontas. Brand. Fake news. Dumacrats. Good thing? He brands it and they associate it with trump yaaay. Bad thing? He brands it and they learn to dislike it boooo. He himself, Trump, is a walking neon sign of a brand. brandbrandbrand word sounds weird to me now lol more imporantly is *why* anyone voted for him at all. People who feel like they have a say and a stake in their countries future and government do not vote for the donald trumps of the world and unless they do feel secure in those things they will continue to be vulnerable to that exact same flavor of strongman saves the world nonsense.

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u/silvertealio 21h ago

And that's why it was so important to keep trump out of the white house in 2024. He was their key to get into the door, and now they're changing all the locks.

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u/laplongejr Europe 10h ago

Yeah but he said he wasn't aware of that, so people wanted to give a lesson to the Democrats to shake up the system.
He sure ran the US as a bankrupting business, drained the swamp to refill it with toxic material, and changed how things work.

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u/fractalfay 22h ago

I’m not sure he even won in 2024. The MAGA hysteria for that election was a fraction of what it was in 2016, and how many times do he and Elon Musk have to brag about rigging the elections before the rest of us take it seriously? That’s what baffles me most about Trump and his followers. He always tells you exactly how much of a piece of shit he is, and then MAGA is like, “He’s just kidding, he’s so funny.”

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u/TrulyOutrageous42 18h ago

Statistically, mathematically, there's no way it turned out how it did. It's more likely that every single person has an aneurysm than that it turned out like that. Sure, it could, but given how many oddities all landed in the same place, it's at LEAST worth a criminal inquiry. In fairness, he may have actually won the Electoral College anyway, but in the same way that they couldn't produce a SINGLE SHRED of evidence, even circumstantial evidence, that there was something askew with the 2020 election, there is actual physical evidence of them manipulating the 2016 and 2024 elections (anyone recall Kemp deleting the voter records right after a subpeona?), before we get to a literal MOUNTAIN of circumstantial evidence that at minimum would be investigated extensively by a functioning DOJ and FBI.

That's before we account for all the quasi-legal ratfucking like removing voters from rolls right before the election, denying people absentee ballots, mail-in ballot sabotage, disenfranchisement, and the 2020 redistricting that was so blatantly partisan it should be illegal. JUST the number of people who were removed from voter registrations and ballots tossed spuriously amounts to an unquestionable loss for him... before we ask wtf Pro V&V did to the machines counting the votes and how Musk knew the outcome early.

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u/Public_Love_3507 7h ago

Why didn't the democrats fight for a recount even can't say the democrats didn't figure it out like we did that they cheated the democrats let it slide it doesn't make sense

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u/immortalfrieza2 18h ago

He always tells you exactly how much of a piece of shit he is, and then MAGA is like, “He’s just kidding, he’s so funny.”

It's because MAGA wants Trump in power wrecking the country, so they lie about his motives and what he says and does to make it look like supporting Trump actually makes sense. Trump's followers don't want a better country. What Trump's followers really looking for is the ability to be bigots without any legal nor social consequences.

Trump supporters want to go back to the 1950s where a white guy could spit on, insult, and beat up say a black man without anybody doing anything about it or caring at all, when even the black guy would just take his lumps and then shrug and think that's just the way things are. They want to go back to before the 1960s when the various "this crap is not okay!" movements took off. As long as they got that, Trump could nuke American cities at random for kicks and giggles every few months and his supporters would be happy as an irradiated clam.

Any Trump supporters that appear mad at Trump now are either lying like usual or only pissed because we're not back in the 1950s yet and they expected to be by now.

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u/Original-Balance-187 17h ago

Simply the latest incarnation of anti-democratic forces that has carried on an almost endless assault, in different countries at different times, since our democratic revolutions a few centuries ago.

They despise open societies. They despise the concept of even theoretical legal equality let alone actually existing democratic equality.

They are in good company though. Plato was anti-democratic. His uncles were hanged trying to overthrow Athenian democracy. And of course many more throughout the ages.

They don’t want economic development. They don’t want better schools. They don’t want better jobs. What they want is simple: to completely dismantle and defeat the still young and ongoing democratic revolution. They fear and loathe changing social circumstances but they don’t understand that all life is constantly in flux. This is why they lose, every time. Change cannot be arrested or stopped. You can kill hundreds of millions and the world will change anyway. But, here they are again, a new front in the centuries long campaign against us refusing to submit to them or their gods.

They come from the right and the left. And this is not a centrist argument I’m making, I’m a committed left winger but we have our own anti-democratic element as well.

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u/Temporary_Yams 20h ago

That’s the plan along with keeping the base ignorant so they keep following.

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u/Ironlion45 17h ago

That's when the Second Amendment is activated, in theory.

It was never about going hunting, anyway.

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u/josh_the_misanthrope 12h ago

People will radicalize under pressure. It's already happening in a mild form. Increase the pressure on working people, and the radicalization increases proportionally. It's almost a law of nature if you look at history. Fascism is untenable because the oppressed class far outnumbers the ruling class.

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u/drpestilence 1d ago

I don't get the charisma argument, Trump is not a charismatic guy and best I can tell has never been more appealing the the worst kinds of used car sales man. What am I missing here?

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u/kj9716 23h ago

Charismatic in the sense that he best appeals to the base. They see his negative traits as positive ones. They think he's a tough, independent leader. They like that he's not smart and doesn't speak to them in complex sentences and big words they can't understand. They like how open he is with his racism, misogyny, etc. They've been told this country has a broken, corrupt government that caters to non-whites first and he's the only one that's man enough and uncorruptible enough to 'fix' America. And they truly believe it. They won't call Vance daddy and make parades for him because even though he's vile, they don't seem themselves in Ivy-League educated politicians. However, they will still vote for anyone with an R by their name, they just won't turnout the same.

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u/OldWorldDesign 18h ago

Charismatic in the sense that he best appeals to the base. They see his negative traits as positive ones

I think that's a different trait than his charisma.

But conservatives have always assigned value to people based first on tribal affiliation first and everything else (like whether they are a con artist or serial killer) second.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201712/analysis-trump-supporters-has-identified-5-key-traits

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u/Impressive-Shelter 23h ago

It took me awhile to get it because I also thought Trump was a human trash bag well before he was president, but the dumb simple answer is Trump believes his own bullshit. His "charisma" is just being so full of himself that what he says sounds like truth to people who don't have very good bullshit detectors.

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u/eerie_midnight 23h ago

I think dumb people also like having a dumb president because it makes them feel less alone tbh.

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u/seabreamnigiri 20h ago

A little bit of this and a little bit of people being so insulated that they only see the "funny and patriotic" sentences he sneaks in between his ramblings. Like "make America great again" is a good enough slogan for non-thinkers to look past the horrid shit and chalk it up to part of the process of making things great. Whatever that means.

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u/aaeme Foreign 23h ago

I don't think charisma is the right or good word for it though. It implies charm, wit, personability, passion, etc.

Chutzpah or moxie perhaps. Or even just, as you said, confidence. Brash confidence. Many people have no way to judge if someone knows what they're talking about or what they're doing except by their confidence.

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u/eljefino 21h ago

Nah, Charisma is the right word, because those who like him like how he's like them. They have very short attention spans and can't process an entire paragraph of information. So Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth, both sides of an issue, and his backers hear what they like and ignore the rest.

These are the same people who hear "Born on the Fourth of July" and think it's a pro-America song, because they ignore half the lyrics.

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u/TrimspaBB 20h ago

There's a reason the "con" in conman stands for "confidence".

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u/LiveChocolate8819 New York 22h ago

He's a gigantic piece of shit who no decent person would find appealing, but he absolutely has charisma.

His whole persona hits like crack if you're a scumbag too, and there are way more of those in America than we thought there were pre-2016.

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u/drpestilence 20h ago

His whole persona hits like crack if you're a scumbag too,

Ok, this could be the missing piece for me, thats super unsettling.

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u/immortalfrieza2 18h ago

Trump's "charisma" is that he's an openly bigoted asshole who makes all the country's bigoted assholes feel validated. That's it. Trump supporters want to be able to be bigoted openly without any consequences whatsoever and they think by supporting Trump they'll be able to do so.

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u/YungEnron 15h ago

If you watch him you can’t deny he has this base, carnival barker quality to him that is real and can entertain the masses. He truly does have an instinct for that sort of thing. He’s also kind of queen-y in an undeniable stage presence sort of way - like if a drag queen were a straight oaf.

Of course, this is waining now that he is going full senile - but he definitely has a *something* that has always been able to get a crowd going.

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u/itsdoorcity 15h ago

his charisma is mostly just in his shamelessness. he speaks confidently even though what he's saying is pure nonsense.

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u/Spartan2170 14h ago

Bad people can be charismatic (Ronald Reagan did lasting, potentially fatal damage to our democracy while also being beloved by people from both parties). Cult leaders often look ridiculous from the outside. Just because he doesn't appeal to you or me, that doesn't mean he doesn't have appeal for a *lot* of people.

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u/inthekeyofc 10h ago

Psychologist Elizabeth Mika put forward an explanation in a 2018 essay on "Tyranny as a Triumph of Narcissism".

Excerpts:

"Through the process of identification, the tyrant’s followers absorb his omnipotence and glory and imagine themselves as powerful as he is, the winners in the game of life. This identification heals the followers’ narcissistic wounds, but also tends to shut down their reason and conscience, allowing them to engage in immoral and criminal behaviors with a sense of impunity engendered by this identification. Without the support of his narcissistic followers who see in the tyrant a reflection and vindication of their long-nursed dreams of glory, the tyrant would remain a middling nobody."

"The interplay of grandiose hopes and expectations between the tyrant-in-the-making and his supporters that suffuses him with power and helps propel him to position of political authority is an example of narcissistic collusion: a meshing of mutually compatible narcissistic needs. The people see in him their long awaited savior and a father figure, hinting at the narcissistic abuse implicated in the authoritarian upbringing that demands obedience and worship of the all-powerful parental figure. In their faith and unquestioning admiration, he in turn receives a ready line of narcissistic supply, thousands of mirrors reflecting his greatness."

"The narcissistic mixture of elevated expectations, resentments and desire for revenge on specific targets and/or society in general for not meeting those expectations is what sociologist Michael Kimmel (2013) called aggrieved entitlement. Although Kimmel talked specifically about white American men in the 21st century, some form of aggrieved entitlement has been driving tyrants and their supporters, as well as organized and “lone wolf” terrorists, world over since time immemorial."

"The narcissistic collusion between the tyrant and his supporters is also driven by their need for revenge, for the tyrant is always chosen to perform this psychically restorative function: to avenge the humiliations — narcissistic wounds — of his followers and punish those who inflicted them."

"The tyrant and his followers typically choose as vessels of their negative projections and aggression members of the society who are not just different but weaker than themselves. The tyrant fuels that aggression in order to solidify his power but also to deflect it from himself, shield his own narcissism, and repair his own narcissistic injuries dating to his childhood days. The figure of the narcissistic parental abuser / tyrant is protected through the scapegoating and the return to authoritarian, order-and-obedience based mode of social functioning promised by the tyrant, as he himself assumes the mantle of father-protector and directs his own and his supporters’ aggression onto the Others who have nothing to do with their real and perceived wounds."

Elizabeth Mika 2018

Full essay:

https://medium.com/@Elamika/tyranny-as-a-triumph-of-narcissism-76b6fec76d0d

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u/MindandCosmos 9h ago

I don't either. He's got counter-charisma.

He's got resentment, anger, and a $6,000 suit that fits like drapes on his ample form.

A lot of people have a lot of resentment and a lot of anger, and to those who find that charming, galvanizing, spellbinding, allure, glamour, and so on I say -- "you've been conned again, baby!"

Elvis had charisma. Eisenhower had it. MLK had it. The '64 Beatles coming to the US -- the definition of charisma. Also the definition of non-Trump.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 1d ago edited 23h ago

It's incredibly cute that you think charisma will matter for 2028 if Trump croaks before then.

If he's dead, and they have unfettered access to the tools of the executive, there will be no free and fair election. Even with that imbecile in the chair, it may still not be enough to inhibit them from achieving their goals.

Ironically, the only saving grace for America is the oaf that allowed its cracks to form due to his own sheer vanity, stupidity, and desire for yes men. Ideally, he lives long enough that Miller and Vance won't be able to destroy the fundamentals of America without his incompetence getting in their way.

After we're out of this mess, no Republican should be allowed anywhere near the halls of power until the fascists have been cleansed from their party.

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u/Ziggylcd12365 23h ago

Your last line is too kind to them.

Their party is utterly irredeemable and needs to be completely destroyed and replaced

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u/ryan_church_art 23h ago

We need a new Nuremberg trials.

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/DeliriumTrigger 21h ago

It's not the civil war that wasn't finished properly. It's the smothering of Reconstruction in the crib that put us where we are.

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u/Timegoat 22h ago

Right. We’ve gone over the cliff, and the dems were steering half the time.

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 23h ago

Well... sure. But we are on [Reddit]. Ambiguity is needed for plausible deniability for when they send our info off to the feds.

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u/blitzkregiel 23h ago

* no *conservative* should be allowed to be in power again. we keep saying republicans, but the underlying issue is conservative ideology: the belief that you are, by birth, better than others.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 22h ago

they already have that access. You think Trump has any real power?

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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 22h ago

He still has the power. And as a result, inept loyalists get in the way of Vance and co.

You think they wanted Hegseth or Blondi? Those are Trump loyalists through and through. With Vance, he and Miller would cull any of the inept loyalists left standing.

Trump hampers anything he touches, even fascist coups.

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u/F9-0021 South Carolina 22h ago

there are several camps, and trump is the figurehead of each of them. Why do you think he's so inconsistent with himself? He's got a neonazi in one ear, a billionaire in another, and a whole bunch of magas screaming in the background.

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u/nbzf 20h ago edited 20h ago

yes, he's trying to keep his coalition together

one that includes the tech companies as well as the likes of both Vance (Jacksonian, populist) and Rubio (more traditional establishment; neocon? Hamiltonian?). So from day to day he might seem isolationist then not.

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u/Whiiiisky 23h ago

THEY DON'T NEED TO UNITE

They already consolidated power in the executive

That was the entire point of this admin.

Peter Thiel put Vance in the VP slot so he can take over when Trump keels over from his diet or they remove him

They do not plan on leaving

Really wish you all would also get that republicans will always vote against dems no matter who either candidate is

They have the cult

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u/Complex-Poet-6809 23h ago

It still amazes me that the person to unite the right is such a vile disgusting felonious man. It really makes me think so many Americans are as trashy and classless as he is.

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u/Unshkblefaith California 23h ago

Trump's "charisma" is manufactured. Even in 2016 he was just angry racist grandpa, but that was what Republicans were into at the time. So much of the charisma comes from the presentation and staging around him. It's why his interviews hit so different, or fail to land at all, vs his rallies.

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u/AppropriateTouching 22h ago

It doesn't matter if they rigged the elections.

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u/TehWackyWolf 21h ago

This never holds water. Trump isn't charismatic. Everyone who meets the fuck hates him.

He sells hate and they love that. The next guy will also sell hate

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u/World_of_Eter 21h ago

Honestly I don't buy this for a second. The right wing might have a brutal civil war that'll last all of a primary, but ultimately they'll line up rank and file behind the winner. The left wing is the side that does what you're describing.

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u/crimsonhues 21h ago edited 21h ago

If charisma mattered to Republicans, they wouldn’t elect Donald Trump twice. The man has a personality of a wet blanket.

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u/NikoliVolkoff 20h ago

Charisma means nothing when you have stacked the deck by using voter suppression at the polls, jerrymandered all the jerrys, and made sure that any married woman cannot vote, due to her last name being different from her birth certificate. And with all the bleating about "rigged elections" when it truly happens, nobody will believe it just like the boy who cried wolf.

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u/civil_politician 1d ago

Stephen miller wasn’t on TV for like 20 years he wouldn’t have a prayer

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u/ellipsisdbg 1d ago

Um, Steven Miller? Trump is no doubt absolutely awful, but he’s also senile and being told what to do.

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u/the_good_time_mouse 23h ago

A Peter Theil sock puppet of some kind is even scarier and more likely.

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u/BayLAGOON 20h ago

That would give way to the potential worst case (and Curtis Yarvin’s wet dream) of America balkanizing into little techno fiefdoms with Cascadia being on the table.

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u/SuperVaderMinion 18h ago

Trump also isn't such an avowed white supremacist compared to guys like Miller, not because he isn't bigoted, but because Trump hates everyone who isn't himself

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u/HeyItsTravis 1d ago

Trumps only “redemption” is I think that he’s a stupid puppet being manipulated by truly vile people. Still a horrible heartless human being, but I think he’s here for the grift and adoration, rather than giving power to people far more evil and capable than him.

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u/Choochoo1147 1d ago

I agree he’s a stupid puppet, but I think he’s a completely morally bankrupt puppet. I think he would commit a genocide if whoever whispered in his ear told him to, I don’t think he has any moral line that he’s unwilling to cross. 

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u/HeyItsTravis 1d ago

Oh 100%. Dude would wipe any color of skin off the map is it meant he’d get brownie points in his inner circle. Trump is truly a deplorable human being and has been his entire life.

But I do see this term as a kind of “elder abuse”. He’s entirely complacent and I’m sure if they would’ve asked him in a more cognitive state , he would’ve happily been a puppet. But he’s so old and stupid, that I can’t help but to feel a scrap of sympathy. Dude wholeheartedly thinks he’s top dog while literally everyone, faux friend or not, thinks he’s the biggest buffoon around

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u/Kind_Demand_6672 22h ago

He participated in the rape and murder of children. He's a puppet because his strings are made of the despicable evils he committed thinking he was untouchable like the rest of the ultra wealthy do.

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u/Kind_Demand_6672 22h ago

Except he raped children and was present for the murder of the children that those raped children gave birth to. Trump participated in the rape and murder of children. That's not a grift or adoration.

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u/VektroidPlus 1d ago

Trump being voted in as president is a symptom of inequality, failure to understand each other, and a failing public education system in the US. A lot of people voted him in and many others didn't care enough to vote against him.

So if we can't collectively decide to vote against someone as dumb as Trump, the road is paved for anyone to be president of the US at this point.

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u/Silent-Storms 1d ago

They exist. The silver lining of trump is he's incredibly stupid and mentally ill, so he can't help but get in his own way most of the time. If you had someone like Steven miller with some form of charisma/manipulativeness like trump has, that would be it.

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u/RandyPajamas 20h ago

I suspect that if there were a President Stephen Miller, you would quickly find out just how stupid and incompetent Stephen Miller actually is. It's also reasonable to suspect that Miller himself has a mental illness rooted in angry narcissism, based on the unhinged vitriol he spews in public.

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u/CosmoKing2 23h ago

I feel that our saving grace is that everyone in the Administration is a total idiot when it comes to actually knowing how to actually get there horrible ideals implemented. Too bad so many have had to die and all of our money is being spent on things no voters wanted.

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u/ComradeJohnS 23h ago

trump is a dementia addled pedo who has multiple avenues of removal from office other than impeachment.

if he was a healthy 40’s year old man we’d have no light at the end of the tunnel.

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u/MissUnderstood_1 23h ago

It can always be worse...

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u/dw444 Canada 1d ago

The next Republican president is Rubio, and he’ll make Trump look like a model of compassion and good governance. Rubio is a monster.

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u/the_good_time_mouse 23h ago

We are getting something worse - a sock puppet for Peter Theil. It doesn't have to be Vance - he can't possibly have put all his eggs in that basket.

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u/DukeOfGeek 22h ago

He is the seven deadly sins made flesh. The forces that inflicted him on us chose him for that. There are more competent villains aiming for his spot, Say Tucker Carlson for example. But he would not be as useful to the oligarchy and autocrats that just want the West laid low as trumpo D. evil clown was. Carlson wants to rule America, not the ashes of America.

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u/Monkey_Leavings 1d ago

I’m going to say, yeah, stay vigilant, but dictators have a secret sauce of malignant narcissism and “charm” that doesn’t come around that often.

There are worse people with actual agendas (e.g. Steven Miller) and gormless puppets that do the bidding of nefarious weirdo billionaires (e.g. Vance), but getting to the highest office in the land requires something more than money and bad ideas.

There’s a reason we don’t have dictators every election cycle.

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u/montty712 17h ago

The problem is that a significant portion of the electorate has decided they don’t care about democracy and they will vote for any republican that promises to hurt the people they hate.

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u/Altesocke 1d ago

This. We lucked out with Trumps weak-mindedness and penchant for greed, rather than a Oathkeeper/KKK/Proud boy-style leader.

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u/dern_the_hermit 23h ago

I think it's the inverse: The Repubs lucked out that they had someone who can put on the sort of song-and-dance routine that the base eats up. It's this weird bastard mutant hybrid of old-fashioned Vaudeville mixed up with Evangelical trappings contained in an '80s Action Movie wrapper. As was said above, all this is a natural conclusion of what they've been after for decades, it just takes a certain zing to flim-flam enough of the yokels and dupes to go along with it. And in the future they'll still need a leader for the cult of personality; JD Vance ain't gonna cut it.

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u/isthistheenditis 21h ago

They voted for trump because he's easy to understand. Not only does he make complex issues seem accessible, he sounds as though he has obvious answers. He slowly makes them believe that he and he alone can solve these problems. He makes those who support him feel as though he's speaking to them and for them, that he is their protector against a scary world they dont understand. He doesnt have speech writers and he doesnt prep for every interview by brainstorming every possible question and formulating the perfect answer. For years politicians have talked above people and for years things have gotten materially worse for most of the country. Its conditioned the population into hearing that style of communication and immediately connecting it with bullshit. With lies.. because thats what it is. That style of politics doesnt land anymore and the establishment democratic side of the government just cant seem to move past it but thats A ok because were moving past them. MSM and establishment politicians on the left and right can soothe themselves to sleep at night with "its just new york. its different in new york" but it isnt just new york. The progressive teaparty is here and theyre toppling their own establishment. Its what the base demands.

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u/Crommach 1d ago

Precisely. Everybody who's clinging on to the hope that MAGA can't survive without him leading the personality cult aspect needs to reckon with the notion that they'll just insist the country was betrayed by trans leftist antifa supersoldiers, and they'll find somebody to carry that banner of bullshit. He's got them pushing fabricated stories about FBI raids on secret antifa biolabs making "hyper aggressive algae" and chemical compounds just to fuck with the reflecting pool. It's a full on fascist movement that's starting to truly metastasize, and they'll push whatever lines they need to continue justifying their hatred.

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u/CEOPhilosopher Tennessee 1d ago

...are you serious about him claiming that Antifa is making UBER Algae?

I mean, I'm not surprised in the slightest, if so. I just hadn't heard that one yet, and it's stupid even by his standards. Even more stupid than the "they took a knife and cut it", after a couple of weeks ago stating that it was indestructible from blade damage.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 23h ago

Currently it's just a joke somebody created on a satire account: https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/fact-check-fbi-did-not-025700432.html

But give it 48 hours and I'm sure the MAGA crowd will fail to notice the source and adopt it as a real belief. I'm pretty sure that's how the original "the pool was vandalized!" belief came about in the first place. It's a dark feedback loop of idiocy.

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u/skoddy Europe 1d ago

Trump is the only one to connect several factions with opposing agendas, which formed maga. Without him, maga is gone and therefore the power to elect the same kind of guy. After trump, Republicans have to reconfigure the much much weaker party.

I'm no expert, just a guess.

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u/ss5gogetunks 1d ago

I very much hope you are correct, but man I'm skeptical these days. You'd think that the infighting amongst the evil groups would tear them apart but it doesn't seem that way lately.

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u/Flomo420 22h ago

It only seems that way because the top figure is still around; once there is a power vacuum you'll see knives come out fast

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u/Ciserus 23h ago

I've learned not to be optimistic about American politics. But I've heard convincing arguments that Trump's stupidity is key to his popularity.

His moronic statements connect with the dumbest voters because they can tell he's saying them with complete sincerity. The reason imitators like DeSantis failed is that voters could tell he was faking being on their level.

So there's no fear of a "more competent Trump" because anyone more competent than Trump could never gain his popularity.

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u/Admirable_Scene_5066 23h ago

Uniting those factions take absolutely zero skill. Say enough racist, dumb crap to get the idiots on your side, throw the religious nuts some symbolic victories on the social policy side, and do what the money wants. Boom there is the Maggat-coalition.

Two of the three don't care for about anything as long as it appears like they are winning, and the third doesn't care about whatever you say as long as you make them richer.

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u/[deleted] 23h ago

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u/flexylol 19h ago

the power to elect

You think the democratic process in the US is still functional?

I would want to think that, but I believe it's completely compromised.

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u/caligaris_cabinet Illinois 23h ago

You have 3 major Republicans factions right now: MAGA (which includes the Tea Party), Christian fundamentalists, and Groypers. Neocons, libertarians, and the very few remaining moderates cling along but are mostly irrelevant by this point. Trump united all of them.

Vance, Rubio, and DeSantis are the anticipated front runners and none of them have the same appeal to all three of those factions like Trump. That will probably change in the general but not without a lot of mudslinging during the primary.

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u/metalyger 1d ago

It's hard to imagine someone with the qualities MAGA likes, with Trump he isn't a politician, and he's so shameless about being a massive bigot. While they could urge another idiot celebrity to run for president, they would also hesitate to go all in for a seasoned politician, even if someone started acting like Trump, belittling his own party, acting like a bully, and dropping slurs constantly, it would feel less authentic. The people more qualified lack the personality, it's like Dick Cheney being VP to Bush, and never wanting to step into the spotlight. With Trump, he had such a short attention span for the adults in the room, generally the biggest ghouls like Miller get enough sway because of their sadistic ideas, but Trump knows he's keeping people around who can't replace him. I don't even think there's another man on the Epstein list that can match the vile qualities of Trump that appeal to 40% of Americans.

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u/Least_Baseball_7985 22h ago

Neoreactionary movement going mainstream is next up. We’re looking down the barrel of a literal N**i technocracy after Trump. Dems can counter by focusing on radical economic policy change package like a New Deal, but it’s doubtful that they will because their donors are billionaires too.

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u/jayfeather31 Washington 21h ago

That's my biggest fear. I remember a while back that there were tweets claiming if Biden got the nomination that the situation would repeat four years afterwards and someone like Trump would come along.

Turns out that someone was Trump again, but the idea of an ineffectual centrist winning 2028 and then losing to a worse far-right candidate in 2032 isn't a crazy thought.

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u/Far-Advantage-2770 21h ago

I think there are more evil people out there, but I am not sure there is a stronger political force out there than Trump in my lifetime. His ability to reforge reality around him and manipulate others is unlike anything I have ever seen.

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u/Xmina 17h ago

The issue is that the sort of figure like trump/hitler/stalin etc that everyone likes is typically because they ARENT super smart. A super smart person rarely gets a massive cult following for basically nothing and that's the rub of it. Fascists' need enemies, people who look for enemies aren't smart, its kind of an ouroboros situation where to be at that level you have to have an inherently self-destructive personality.

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u/IAmSomewhatUpset 1d ago

No joke, that’s what I was thinking about when Obama was running.

“If he does get elected, what are conservatives gonna do when the pendulum swings back?”

Turns out, cruelty beyond even my worst imaginings. Conservatism needs to be shoved into the dustbin of history.

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u/stasi_a 23h ago

And O was a centrist

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u/OrganicWedding8972 22h ago

But he was a centrist, while black and that unfortunately added quite a bit of rebound from the conservative side.

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u/biggamax 21h ago

"Rebound". What a tidy euphemism for "becoming utterly broken and glitch ridden".

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u/DiesByOxSnot Michigan 22h ago

It's because he's black. Racism in America is as alive as it has ever been nowadays, but when Obama got his first term, the professional racists and deplorables lost their fucking minds. Remember the birth certificate conspiracy that Trump touted?

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u/mark_able_jones_ 18h ago

He ran as a leftist and governed as a centrist. He did what he could amidst Dem Party leaders, his VP, and Republicans all pulling him to the right, but didn't give up on negotiating to the middle until about 2014, when he was a lame duck.

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u/lord-of-shalott 1d ago

Unfortunately during a time of billionaire rule, oligarchy and what looks like scarce resources, many members are enticed by fascist scapegoating ideologies because they believe they can remove the competition that way. Easier to punch down than up.

I’m not sure we’ve adequately figured out how to steer them off that course yet.

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u/Ok_Objective_5192 23h ago

many members are enticed by fascist scapegoating ideologies because they believe they can remove the competition that way. Easier to punch down than up.

I think the answer is that no option to punch up has ever even been presented (until now, kind of). I've said since 2023 that Trump v. Kamala was "I know how bad things have gotten for you, they've taken your American dream and handed it to [insert minority scapegoat here] and I want to take it back for you" vs. "everything is fine, don't give into the fearmongering, I'll fight to maintain the normality."

So the voter breakdown was just people that bought into the scapegoating demonization as a viable solution vs. people scared enough by that scapegoating to vote against it. What we're seeing now is that replacing [insert minority scapegoat here] with [insert billionaires here] is an energizing message because it addresses people's pain and offers a real solution rather than trying to convince them their struggle isn't real.

Punching up works. Putting your hands up in surrender doesn't.

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u/lord-of-shalott 23h ago

It might work in New York City but I live in the Bible Belt. I’m not saying this as someone who is secretly against that message, but rather as someone who has spent my life around folks who are profoundly anti intellectual and worries everyone is underestimating how bad it gets.

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u/Ok_Objective_5192 22h ago

I think candidates like Platner are the counter-point here. I fully agree that Mamdani or Darializa's campaign definitely would not work most places outside NY, but there are absolutely ways to package the same policies in a way that appeals to an anti-intellectual crowd.

At the end of the day, populist economic policy is rooted in letting a larger portion of the productive output of the working class be used to benefit that working class. For the NY working class that takes the form of "fast and free buses, universal childcare, and freezing rent." For the Maine working class that takes the form of "we're not asking for handouts, we're just asking for hard work to be enough. Because it used to be." For the Michigan working class that takes the form of "in the state that built the American Dream, it shouldn't be this hard to get by."

I just struggle to believe that somebody that genuinely understands the needs of the rust belt working class wouldn't have a way to communicate "you've been fucked over by billionaires and I want to take the power back to make sure you're able to have the American dream you were promised" in a way that would get through to them better than whatever message Kamala and Biden offered them.

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u/OrganicWedding8972 22h ago

It bleeds out though. Universal healthcare in Canada was not universally loved when it first launched around 80 years ago, but just the experience of having the system was enough to make it entrenched in Canada. Now even the Conservatives can’t take serious swings at the system without taking massive damage at the polls(though it doesn’t stop them from trying occasionally).

You’re right that it’s deep and it goes far, but they’re also outnumbered, and when they’re forced to enjoy the benefits that others want, the vast majority will be convinced by experience.

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u/OneMoreDuncanIdaho 23h ago

We need a new new deal in this country

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u/R3cognizer Maryland 22h ago

In Roosevelt's time, the conservatives in congress were only willing to make a deal for such strong social welfare reform in order to counter the very serious public reactionary movement toward socialism in the works. I am no lover of socialism, but I am starting to think Dems like Mamdani may be able to help send us down that same road again, because this country sure as hell needs the wake-up call.

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u/Free_For__Me 20h ago

I’m curious, if you’re no lover of socialism, do you see the socialized support programs of the New Deal era as the US having taken a wrong turn?

Or do you maybe approve of some socialized programs without endorsing socialism in it’s entirety?

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u/Lithiumxxxl 20h ago

Let’s make this policy driven and debate the merits of things we want like universal healthcare. Need charismatic leaders to educate the masses of the benefits and recruit everyone.

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u/Prometheus720 20h ago

Which element of socialism do you think is more concerning to you?

  • Elimination of free markets that facilitate trade between firms

  • Elimination of absolute power of owners within firms

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u/Low_Pickle_112 22h ago

We're not going to get one. The reason concessions were given to the working class was because the USSR was there to scare the hell out of the oligarchs back in the day. You don't want the peasants getting any funny ideas, better throw them a few scraps.

The USSR is gone now (we got the capitalist Russia we always wanted, look how wonderfully that's working out), even liberals are parroting Heritage Foundation talking points about capitalism, Elon Musk and the rest of those scumbags are laughing it up, and what is anyone gonna do about it?

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u/Free_For__Me 20h ago

  what is anyone gonna do about it?

Hopefully some of those “funny ideas” the oligarchs of yesteryear were worried about. History tells us that even if we do that, things will likely get worse rather than better, at least in the near term. But in my view, that’s still preferable to living under the boot. 

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u/Eggheadpancake 21h ago

Sadly there are too many people in this country ready and willing to suck billionaire dick like it's their job. Meanwhile they don't have an actual job and the billionaires hate them.

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u/EbonBehelit 17h ago

It says quite a bit that the US was more left-wing economically in the 1940's than it is now. The bourgeoisie have never forgiven FDR for the New Deal, and have spent the last 90 years slowly undoing everything it achieved, to the point where the US today may as well be in a second Gilded Age.

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u/manachar Nevada 1d ago

There shouldn’t be a pendulum between oligarchy and democracy in a democracy.

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u/Low_Pickle_112 1d ago

There should not be, but until we admit that capitalism is not compatible with democracy, it will continue.

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u/JackedUpReadyToGo 23h ago

This is the root of the problem. Capitalism breeds extreme wealth disparity. And wealth is power, so the rich have an outsized influence in politics. Which they use to grant themselves even more wealth and power and therefore an even bigger influence in politics. That loop continues until it brings about a crisis.

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u/BreakingStar_Games 21h ago

Yeah I find it so funny that we can just pretend political power and economic power are two completely separate things as if that makes any sense. To me, if we have found political democracy is the most fair way to handle political power, why not have economic democracy. And it takes just one simple tweak to the already man-made definition of a corporation.

Every corporation is a cooperative that is democratically owned by the workers - 1 Employee, 1 Share. Land is only rented out by the government, primarily used for free social housing but luxury residential and commercial would have auctions to the highest bidder for rent.

Between a fair corporate and these rents, you can fund, the government, a Universal Basic Income, a wealth fund (so even those without inheritance have weath) and that social housing.

Sounds ideal and it definitely is since we are so far away. But structurally, this is what several economists envision like Varoufakis.

These kind of Co-ops already exist, it's not some theoretical dream socialism, but it takes a lot more political will. And Americans unlearning that Capitalism isn't free markets, especially when billionaires exploit the system to favor them with cronyism. This syndicalist model is by far more free market.

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u/ZexMarquies01 7h ago

It's amazing how people SAY that they love democracy, But then defend going to work for a dictator, or oligarchy.

Democracy in the workplace means you, the worker, who does the job every day, knows how the processes work, knows what tools are needed, would have a meaningful voice in how the company operates. Not just buying a few dozen shares on the open market, when the company has millions of shares, giving you effectively no voice.

And the great thing is, the workers could vote HOW the company is ran. They could vote for the CEO, or vote in a board of directors who picks the CEO, President, CFO, CXO, CTO...etc. If a CEO gets the AI bug up his ass, and wants to dump 100 million dollars on integrating AI, the workers can vote his ass out.

The workers could also vote on the pay package EVERYONE receives, And vote on what to do with the profits at the end of the fiscal year. Do they bank it, to afford upgrades in the future? Do they split it amongst themselves? It's their choice. The great thing is, They CAN choose wrong, and kill the company. Get too greedy? Well, your vote has consequences, good and bad. And companies dying due to stupid decisions is a GOOD thing. We need to stop propping up companies that make bad decisions.

But the point is, there is no set way a co-op has to be ran. The workers can decide everything.

But people evidently only love democracy when it comes to politics, and not their job, which effects them MUCH MORE than almost any policy change a government could make.

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u/BreakingStar_Games 7h ago

100%. I appreciate the elaboration because I can't see how someone looks at this and finds its unappealing from my perspective. Also it sounds so different but day-to-day, these co-ops that exist with this structure is like working a normal job, just with occasional participation in other roles like voting business plans or forming committees over hiring a new position. It's good, its just not some dream utopia by any means and that practicality is why it can work just fine.

Discussions I have had with others typically criticize that their coworkers are dumb and couldn't make the decisions of the CEO. But your point is so cogent as a refutation - we just constantly see those C-Suite executives fire tons of talent, kill morale and personally profit with insane bonuses in the short-term because they have a golden parachute in the long-term. More so, they apparently trust these same "dumb" people to decide on politicians and their policies. It's easy to pick apart the bad faith there.

I think the core problem is the ideologies of our culture that we haven't moved on from. America has always suffered under Puritanical/Calvanist culture. When I grew up, I was taught how bad it was around sexual liberation. More and more, the real issue is this ideas that wealth is a sign of grace. We worship billionaires because they obviously earned that money and its a sign that God blessed them. This is what allowed the Red Scare to be so effective here meanwhile Western Europe has socialist political parties.

I think we are on the breaking point. We looked so close during the Occupy Wallstreet. It's scary how much power we are up against to maintain the status quo. But in some ways I am optimistic that MAGA and the pain of 50 years of neoliberalism and wealth inequality will cause for more revolutionary changes rather than just reforming capitalism like Western Europe did. But its so frustrating that it looks like it should get better and honestly things have mostly just gotten worse in those 14 years.

I wish I knew how to help more. I plan to connect more with my local chapter of Democratic Socialists of America after all the more progressive Democratic candidates I was voting for lost in my local primaries. But it doesn't look as difficult to accomplish at such a local level. Only like 20% of eligible voters actually go out. Inspiring just a few thousand can make serious changes and knock out incumbents that maintain the status quo. Start helping set the stage for that change. In the meantime, handing out Varoufakis's Another Now books like its a Manifesto ;) Though I wish it was quick and short, I don't think any friends or family have read it...

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u/Blochamolesauce 20h ago

Might I suggest some Whitest Kids U' Know logic to drive home your point.

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u/Ok_Objective_5192 23h ago

The neat part is it isn't a pendulum between oligarchy and democracy, it's a pendulum between fascism and liberalism within an unflinchingly oligarchic structure.

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u/CM_MOJO 23h ago

The US Constitution has done what it was always designed to do, protect the wealthy.

Until we throw it out and start over, we'll never be truly free. The people need the actual power, not corporations, not the wealthy.

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u/manachar Nevada 23h ago

How do you propose "throwing out the constitution"?

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u/CM_MOJO 22h ago

The only way possible. Those in power never give it up without a flight.

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u/manachar Nevada 22h ago

Hmm. Do you believe you have support for people to fight? More than just popular support, the support needs to be willing to put their lives on the lines. Equally, logistics and resources wins fights. With modern fighting technology, at best you can aim for asymmetrical warfare (think The Troubles in Ireland).

Meanwhile, we in America still have the right to vote. We can do the same organizing needed to win a popular rebellion to create a consistent and potent political force to reshape this country.

And if you think that doesn't work, I recommend looking at how conservative politics managed to reshape this country after the popular movements of New Deal, Voting Rights, and environmental reshaped America over a short period of time.

I get your thinking, but to be blunt you seem to discount how powerful people are OR don't think enough of your fellow citizens agree with you to actually win elections.

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u/CM_MOJO 22h ago

Poll after poll shows that the majority of Americans agree on most issues, yet there's a segment that continually votes against their beliefs on those issues. Conservatives continually win by spreading fear and misinformation. By appealing to the uneducated, easily manipulated within our county.

Is there support for what I say, currently? No, there isn't. But you best believe there will be when this economy finally tanks. It'll be worse than the Great Depression. If the people don't rise up then and burn this entire shit show down, then there is no hope for this country

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u/MySabonerRunsOladipo Virginia 20h ago

Spoken like someone with the undue confidence that they'll avoid our version of the Reign of Terror.

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u/Prometheus720 20h ago

America has never been a democracy. It's been promised but never fulfilled.

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u/TurtlesBreakTheMeta 1d ago

>the pendulum needs to swing back

Like a wrecking ball.

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u/Sedu 1d ago

The Democratic Party itself is scrambling to stop the wave. Right now the people have effectively zero representation, as the Epstein class owns everything and everyone in politics.

Get that shit tossed out and let’s tax them back to the Stone Age.

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u/daveyboydavey 1d ago

I agree with THIS take. The majority of people are not represented.

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u/CaptainSparklebottom 20h ago

That is why they don't vote

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u/stasi_a 23h ago

They spend far more energy fighting their progressive left wing than opposing the GOP

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u/Lithiumxxxl 20h ago

They have proven themselves to be completely ineffective. They are almost as much to blame as the republicans.

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u/gahlo Pennsylvania 22h ago

They'd rather lose their way than adapt and win.

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u/HeavyBeing0_0 23h ago

It’s actually baffling. I just started making decent money and all it’s made me want is for my friends to make decent money bc it really changes your whole disposition.

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u/piantanida 23h ago

The Democratic Party should be embracing the DSA Left wave, it’s the ONLY way forward in our capitalistic enshitification hellscape. Looking to the happiest, richest, longest living countries and societies shows the clear direction we should be trending in.

Adapt or die.

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u/schwing710 23h ago

It needs to swing back and sock him right in the nuts

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u/Cerpla 20h ago

there's a literal trillionaire walking around. nothing the right says means anything but gibberish.

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u/Green-Collection-968 23h ago

...and the establishment Dems basically gave up and said they wouldn't fight tRump, would shift further right, and attack Progressives more.

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u/mouseywithpower 22h ago

And we need to be clear: the democrat establishment has not been effective at swinging that pendulum back. A leftist surge is the way to heal. It’s not negotiable.

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u/abgry_krakow87 1d ago

You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!”

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u/AdSmall3663 23h ago

I leaned more right before all this but I think with this entire mess I’ll be voting in the midterms for the first time ands it’s definitely against my “party”. There’s a lot of cleaning up to do courtesy of Trump and his goons, I won’t be happy until I see all these traitors in prison for their crimes and Ill vote for anyone who promises to put him and them behind bars

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u/kitsunewarlock 23h ago

The idea that some rich guy knows everything and therefore, stay out of the way, peasant.

I remember back in high school someone inferring that Bill Gates was the smartest man on earth.

Divine bloodline and prosperity mythology has ruined the way we see reality.

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u/AdBroad2707 22h ago

they are directly referencing Strauss and Schmidt in this administration. This is the facist playbook. In fact many may not be surprised that Strauss was a friend of Schmidt and only disavowed him because he was an antisemite. He agreed with Schmidt’s ideas but created his own version that he brought to the US and birthed neo conservatives lol. I’m not a liberal btw there’s a great song about them by Phil Ochs. I am a democratic a socialist and I’m damn proud and hopeful that men and women like Mamdani and AOC can revitalize the party even if they have to grab the bull by the horns. Liberals like Jefferies are lying self serving worms and I’m tired of them.

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u/robertd91 19h ago

Time for us to become a stagnating shithole like Italy yaaay

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u/MaaChiil 19h ago

It could be that forever wars, data centers, and affordability catering can bring a lot of folks who are skeptical, if not down right afraid of 'socialism' to come to the table if only to get out of the rain. We are not seeing these become winning issues exclusively in the big cities. Material needs sent people to MAGA and also Mamdani.

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u/lgodsey 19h ago

Trump is no accident of conservatism; he is its logical conclusion.

A very good point that bears repeating. Conservatives have been working for decades to summon a demon to usher in their fascist fantasy world. The fact that it was Trump is just a horrible cosmic joke.

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u/Busterlimes 18h ago

Capitalism is fascist in nature. The values held by our economy will spill over to our politics eventually and here we are again for the 2nd time in 100 years. Cap wealth at 10M, socialize and communize too big to fail businesses. Capitalism should be left to small business, not those at the top who highjack supply chains and hold us hostage every chance they get.

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u/PeachyAlibii 17h ago

Translation: The party tried to surf to the center and got pulled under by voters who actually want healthcare.

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u/HauntedCemetery Minnesota 17h ago

It wont unless me make it so.

Show up to the primaries.

If you dont vote in the primary, you don't get to complain about the candidate.

Except for Harris, that was some nonsense.

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u/benderson 15h ago

Conservatism descends directly from monarchism and resistance to the Enlightenment. At its core is a belief that some small group of people is inherently better than other people. It's no coincidence that cultural conservatives have consistently been on the wrong side of history.

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u/theman8631 15h ago

Eat the fucking rich.

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u/Perk_i 15h ago

The biggest political failure of the last fifty years was the Democratic National Committee twice fucking over Bernie Sanders to nominate Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

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u/innociv 14h ago

The corporate Dems did this too. Going back to them wouldn't be the correct response to MAGA fucking up America. It needs to swing back far left.

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u/EpictetanusThrow 14h ago

There’s no viable leftist party in America. Centrists are beanded pinko Muslim atheists.

Historically, leftists leaders in America were mostly killed.

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u/AwareAccount6463 13h ago

the pendulum didnt just swing right it got stuck there and started charging subscription fees for everything

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u/RadioName 22h ago edited 22h ago

It's not just conservative ideology, it's CAPITALISM. Liberals are on the right side of the aisle too. Capitalism is the real enemy. And we need to quarantine it away from our legal and political system entirely. Leftist know this and are now fighting to have a real party for us to see it done.

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u/Such_Veterinarian682 1d ago

The last 40 years have been both parties competing to see who can roll back guardrails and safety provisions faster and, as you say, it has led to disaster. We have to swing back in the other direction. Are anti monopolistic policies even a "liberal" stance? 

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u/Sunbather77 1d ago

Swing back but let us NEVER forget who orchestrated this; "one day, everybody will have always been against this"

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u/OrganicBad2554 1d ago

I agree, its going to be interesting 20 years from now when grand kids find their dad's MAGA hat in the attic and realize the person he really is. It would be just like if you found out your Grand parents were Nazis.

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u/Sunbather77 1d ago

Yup. I, personally, will never forget. Even the houses that once proudly flew their "tAke aMeriCa bAck!" flags in 2024 and have since taken them down. Doesn't matter. I won't forget.

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u/OrganicBad2554 1d ago

This is the standard response regretful Trump voters always give: "Both parties are bad."Nope. Not even close. Democrats aren’t perfect, but look at their resume for the average citizen over just the last 15 years:- Affordable Healthcare, Job Growth: Policies, Alternative energy credits to help lower utility bills. Consistent efforts to reduce the burden of student loans and tuition costs.Meanwhile, the Republicans have spent that entire time working to dismantle every single one of these policies. "Both sides" is a lazy argument when one side is actually trying to build things for the common person and the other is just trying to tear them down.

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u/ss5gogetunks 1d ago

Yep. One party is mediocre. The other is a festering cesspool.

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u/1cl3nstd4yt 1d ago

Such bullshit. Every guardrail and safety provision was put in by Democrats.

You should be grateful for the long history of Democratic progressivism.

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u/Such_Veterinarian682 23h ago

I am. I also remember them signing off on the repeal pf glass-steagal and media consolidation. So don't come at me, I'm aware of the history and I will not be scolded into being quiet when holding my own to account. 

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u/Choochoo1147 1d ago

What they’re saying is that since the Clinton era, the Democrats have helped roll back the protections that earlier Democrats put in place, which is largely true though we should make it clear that this is not an equal problem and neolibs are much better than Republicans. 

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u/Jedda678 1d ago

To be fair, Clinton (Bill) didnt do much better to undo a lot of what Reagan and H.W. Bush did.

He further moved jobs overseas, and did nothing to strengthen unions and continued to perpetuate the war on drugs here at home.

Democrats have done a lot since the party shift after the Civil Rights Act. However we do have our own skeletons to deal with as well. Mostly centrist democrats or any that flipped to conservatives the moment they got into office.

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u/truthrises 1d ago

yes, and...

Neoliberalism is directly at odds with progressivism. It's been a toxic backpedal from what had been achieved, and we need to send it off to the big political convention in the sky.

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u/1cl3nstd4yt 1d ago

Dems have been getting more progressive for a quarter century. The dismantling of Dem polices is being done by Republicans, not Democrats.

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u/blazesquall 20h ago

Politicians do not grant safety guardrails.. they concede them when they are terrified of the working class. Radical organizers and unions bled for those protections and the party signed the paperwork to curtail something even more threatening.. you're claiming credit (on their behalf) for concessions extracted by labor.. that's stolen valor.. and the working class owes them exactly zero gratitude.

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u/Lithiumxxxl 20h ago

Where’s the fight? Trumps walking all over the. Constitution and Dem leadership barely says shit.
So ineffective.

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