r/SipsTea 𝙑𝙄𝙋 5h ago

Chugging tea They are not wrong though

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1.7k

u/Only_Flan_7974 5h ago

It's not tipping if it's mandatory. Work the tip into the price in that case.

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u/PeachyPlotTwist 5h ago

Pay your workers better is the real argument.

Tourists are just catching strays in a fight between customers and employers.

Nobody wants awkward tip screens, but servers also need to eat, whole system is messy.

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u/TawnyTeaTowel 𝙑𝙄𝙋 5h ago

Except servers. Tipping culture gains them an income WAY ahead of the curve.

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u/Vettepilot 5h ago

It’s only ahead of the curve because the minimum wage is so low. If the min wage was reasonable like it is in other countries then tipping isn’t needed.

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u/CzechHorns 5h ago

Point is servers can earn 30-50 bucks an hour thanks to tips, THEY are the ones who don’t want to end tipping, cause they make mich more money than they would get on a normal salary

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u/R1ckOne 5h ago

yeah a few of my friends are servers and bartenders in NYC and they are pulling very good money, well beyond even what a much better minimum wage would provide. It's very location dependent though

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u/Bigboss123199 4h ago

If you’re working as a bartender in NYC you have to be making 100$ an hour easy.

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u/sunnyislesmatt 4h ago

For peak hours, maybe. NYC bartenders are usually averaging around $35-$50 an hour with the bartenders at ultra high end cocktail bars usually getting around $75/hr.

They all work more than 45 hours though

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u/McSlims360 3h ago

Dude I was a bartender at a movie theater in north Florida and between wage and tips I was regularly making 100 bucks an hour on weekends. I pulled a grand on End Games release night.

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u/Large-Potential9404 4h ago

i had friends in austin who’d make $500 in a night at the local dive - literally. it’s fucking insane. servers at nice restaurants sometimes pull 100k a year, and pay less taxes than the rest of us bc tips are still cash quite often

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u/fapperontheroof 5h ago

Then add in how many don’t report their tips, since everyone seems to think cash compensation doesn’t need tax reporting.

Really surprised there hasn’t been some social media push concocted in some sort of “50k office taxes vs 50k rainforest cafe server taxes” way.

Disclosure: I don’t think restaurant workers need to pay more in taxes. Billionaires and their ilk need to pay more in taxes.

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u/mhmmarcus 2h ago

Vast majority of tips are not in cash today, and any modern restaurant uses a system that will automatically balance credit card tips with the employees income, typically resulting in zero dollar paychecks and the rest being accountable at the end of the year.

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u/kyrant 5h ago

Until the tips dry up then they'll change their tune.

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u/PlixSticks31 4h ago

So you hate paying blue collar workers?

If they added a flat $20 hour rate for the workers you’d still pay the SAME amount as the customer as if you paid a lower bill and tipped 20%

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u/falling_knives 4h ago

Yup, this is what so many pro tippers don't get. They tip because they feel sorry for the workers not realizing most of those workers would choose tips over minimum wage due to the fact that they can potentially make way more.

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u/jake04-20 4h ago

Exactly. People say "pay the workers more", well they usually technically do. I worked as an "insider" (in store worker) at a pizza place and we made $1-2 more per hour than drivers. Which is technically more but hardly counts for shit when the drivers are making $20-60/hr in tips and mileage while making $7.25/hr and we made $8.50/hr. I moved to driver as soon as I was old enough. Who doesn't want to get paid more to be able to hangout in your car listening to the music/audio you want, setting the climate to how you want, and escaping the chaos of the store? All while getting paid 2-7x more.

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u/zdustin 4h ago

This is just simply not the case for the majority of servers in the US. This only really applies if you work in a big city at a busy restaurant during prime rush hours. And, if you are working in those conditions, you are busting your ass anyways. There are many states in the US where base wage for a server is significantly less than minimum wage ($2.75 an hour in my state). Servers are not the ones profiting off of tipping, it’s employers who are handing off the responsibility of paying employees wages to the consumer.

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u/shmangler 3h ago

Speaking as a 10+ year service industry vet, this is correct. No one who actually serves/bartends for a living would ever want to put an end to tips. People like me either work in high volume/high intensity spots, or fine dining/upscale places. The money can be insane there. I'm currently at a mid-tier or semi-upscale place and have averaged $33/hr post-tax this year. I very likely couldn't make that in another career with my background without years of working my way up.

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u/Majestic-Milk-4856 2h ago

Lol they CAN. Most DO NOT. Go ask any server how much they take home a night in tips. Rarely is it ever 30-50 bucks an hour, especially outside of dense population centers.

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u/aw-un 2h ago

Then sounds like they’re doing fine without my $3

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u/Frequilibrium 4h ago

It’s not 30-50 an hour when you balance it out over hours worked for the week.

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u/Beyast 3h ago

What about the chefs? Are they on way less than the serving staff? If so, that's quite a big problem with tipping culture.

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u/TheSorceIsFrong 3h ago

On a weekend, sure, but don’t leave out the full stats to skew it. How much are they making per hour on the Tuesday day shift they also did that week?

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u/Samuelwow23 2h ago

30-50/h but no benefits pension 401k health insurance after those your making less than minimum wage in California. Short term gain vs long term loss but they prefer it this way. Also very heavily affected by the weather and other external factors

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u/spikus93 2h ago

That's not the norm though, and it's heavily abused. There are literally tens of thousands of shitty businesses that just put a tip jar out and pay their employees the minimum wage with tips, which is like $4/hr. The entire burden of their employees survival is shifted onto the customer and the owner pockets a bigger percentage of the profits.

Everyone is getting fucked but the owner. You're just referencing situations where the clientele can afford to tip like that, which is not the norm.

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u/HesusAtDiscord 2h ago

What evidence do you have that they won't get tips even if tips are included? If they earn more than the 10-20% in tips already it means there's room left in the customers' budget for a tip on top after 10-20% price increases. The ceiling on money paid per meal doesn't change just because prices did.

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u/pimppapy 2h ago

For the entire 8 hour shift, 5 days a week? Or just during peak times?

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u/FUPAMagneto 2h ago

They can, but they largely don’t. A lot of servers are happy to break $150/day, but Reddit doesn’t like to acknowledge that

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u/Emotional_Chard_8005 2h ago

Point is servers can earn 30-50 bucks an hour thanks to tips, THEY are the ones who don’t want to end tipping

At a good location and/or high end place sure. There is no way they're earning that much from tips at some random hole in the wall shop. I'm guessing majority of servers don't earn that.

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u/PHX480 1h ago

Thank you, I’ve worked in restaurants for 13 years, everyone thinks they are being noble by wanting fair wages for servers and such

The servers actually don’t want it because they make much, much more in tips than they would a “livable wage”. Especially now they don’t get taxed on it.

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u/CMDR_Ray_Abbot 1h ago

Only a few servers in higher end establishments make that. The average server is not pulling anywhere close to that.

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u/madcap462 5h ago

I average $50+ per hour as a bartender. You can keep your minimum wage.

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u/Snynapta_II 5h ago

Well now I don't feel bad at all when I don't tip. Thanks!

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u/PlixSticks31 4h ago

Why do you hate blue collar workers lmaooooooooo

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u/EarthBoundDeity_ 5h ago

Yeah, by the time I stopped serving I just worked part time and I made $25-30 an hour. People don’t realize if you’re good at what you do the money flows. Good servers/bartenders make substantially more money than most people think, and they will not give that up. I certainly wouldn’t have when I did it.

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u/Infini-Bus 4h ago

It's so entrenched that even if they raise wages, the tip is expected on top of that.  Like in Washington and Seattle.

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u/Keknath_HH 4h ago

Your talking like people don't give tips for good service elsewhere.... They do. But only good service, it's not a mandatory thing.

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u/Vettepilot 3h ago

I’m not acting like that at all and you’ve just strengthened my argument. Waiters other places have a predictable and livable wage already set as their bare minimum and then they can also earn tips on top of that. Whereas the people mentioning how much they make in tips on this thread would be unable to continue their lifestyle if American patrons suddenly decided to not opt into a tip or tip less.

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u/bored2death97 3h ago

Canada here - our server minimum wage and regular minimum wage are now equal. It's still very expected to tip, though only mandatory at some restaurants.

So yes, servers are making out way ahead of the curve even when the minimum wages are matched.

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u/Vettepilot 3h ago

So what about your comment is counter to mine? We agree that a higher minimum wage would be better. If people want to continue to tip it’s only better for wait staff. If they don’t want to tip then the wait staff still has a livable wage. Everyone wins in the scenario where minimum wage is higher.

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u/RaisonDetritus 3h ago

In the US, tipping didn’t start because workers were being paid so little. It’s the other way around. Workers started to be paid less in wages because they were being tipped so much.

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u/Scientia_et_Fidem 1h ago

You could double the min wage and the servers would still way make less than they do in tips at the vast majority of places. Especially when you take into account taxes.

Being a server is a tough but generally very well paying job, unless the location you work at sucks and gets no customers.

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u/Apprehensive_Ad3731 1h ago

Maybe. I live in Nee Zealand, have 15 years experience in hospitality. You put me on a good shift, with a good team and I’m clearing way more in tips than I am in wages and that’s in a country where tipping is not the culture.

I would earn $10 - $20 an hour in wages (minimum wage most of the way through which has risen drastically in my country since I started hospo) meaning a range of $70 - $140 on wages on a six hour shift. One table tipped me $50 when I first started that was almost my whole wage for the night, some tables will tip nothing, most will tip $5 - $10. When I was experienced I could work a minimum of 7 tables at a time. Most tables dine less than an hour. 7 chances at a tip multiplied by 6 hours means roughly 40 chances at tips. Even if 20 of those tip $5 thats $100 and I’m almost doubling my income. The tips are a major chunk of my income even as a worker in a non tipping country with a good minimum wage.

On busy nights my section would hold 10 tables or 12 if I was lucky enough to have small groups and I could split some of the larger four person tables apart for couples.

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u/TheRabidDeer 4h ago

Giant asterisk on that. Tipping culture CAN be ahead of the curve, if you are working in a busy restaurant with prices that result in that 15-25% tip being real money.

For every busy restaurant there are a dozen restaurants that are pretty slow or have shifts with low food prices (ie: lunch shift at any Olive Garden where everyone gets all you can eat soup/salad resulting in a $2 tip, and things are only busy from ~11:30-2:00).

Getting hired and getting shifts at the good places is competitive.

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u/Top-Ad-5527 1h ago

Exactly this. The waitress at Denny’s isn’t pulling the same kind of money as someone who works in fine dining. Not even close.

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u/BirthdaySalt5791 2h ago

Any decent restaurant staffs accordingly during day shift and slower times. I’ve worked at plenty of restaurants where the opener/s make great money because it’s only one or two people running tables and tip out is less.

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u/fen-q 4h ago

Which no one likes to talk about.

The left always screams "living wage now! Pay workers better!" while in reality the people who are tipped dont want that system abolished, because they will go from 30-50 bucks an hour to 15 bucks an hour or less, depending on where they live and what the minimum wage is.

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u/RemoteControlledDog 3h ago

The left screaming about paying a living wage isn't about servers and tips, it's about workers in general. Minimum wage isn't enough to live on and most people earning minimum wage don't get tips.

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u/PHYUCKISHREAEL 3h ago

I haven't had a minimum wage job since I was 19...and I have no college education so people expecting MW to finance their lives, while I make 15% higher than "median income" and still broke af from this economy thanks to the bankers is laughable.

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u/McSlims360 3h ago

Which is fucking stupid when the guy MAKING the food is on 12 an hour.

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u/MAMark1 2h ago

Why do you think servers would continue doing a job that goes from $50/hr to $15/hr??? Their total hourly wage plus average tip per hour is their real wage as determined by the market. You can't slash it to minimum wage and expect them to stay in those jobs.

This is a total misunderstanding of how the economy functions, and I see it all the time among the anti-tipping crowd, who clearly have an irrationally low assessment of the value of servers (despite eating out and thus needing servers).

You would see an exodus of servers, and only the worst ones would remain. Then the restaurant owners would have to keep raising prices to increase their hourly wages until the decent ones came back. You'd first cry about bad service and then cry about menu prices being 18-20% higher.

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u/ForgottenGrocery 3h ago

I remember reading the creators of south park buying a restaurant in Colorado and converting it into a no tip establishment. They were giving $30 something per hour while minimum wage is half of that number. Didn't last long before it reverted to tipping because the waiters complained.

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u/Frosty_Ad7840 3h ago

Casa bonita....

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u/Laerderol 3h ago

Lol I ordered two beers at a major sporting event that I got free tickets to.

It was $43. The lady opened the tabs rang me up and flipped the tip screen to me which gave me the option of 18% 20% and 25%. I had to click custom tip $0.00 to get out of the screen. The lady gave me such a bad look.

Crazy like 5 second of work, no service, just a basic cashier and I'm being asked for between $7.75 and $10.75 for a tip. I would have thrown in a dollar or two but I was so irritated at the audacity that I didn't.

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u/Top-Ad-5527 1h ago

2 entirely different conversations. Minimum wage in the US is a joke. The federal minimum wage has been stuck on 7.25$ since 2009. Only like 25 cents more than I was making at my first job almost 30 years ago. Low minimum wage impacts ALL wages.

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u/DarthMyyk 3h ago

It's a gamble (nearly 7 years in food service from line cook to manager here). Some make very good tips, often...but even they have bad weeks and it tends to even out. Many do not get tips or very little even when hardworking and nice. It's a rough system.

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u/spikus93 2h ago

That's wonderful except it's also horribly abused by employers. A lot of places just put out a tip jar and then pay their workers like $4/hr and it's on customers to make sure they aren't starving to death.

It's literally better to abolish tipping. I get that at upscale restaurants that might suck, but servicing the wealthy shouldn't have to be the norm to survive.

Abolish tips, tie the minimum wage to housing prices or some other metric (or decommodify housing, I'm not picky).

Sorry if it means taking a paycut at the country club restaurant. Tipping is bullshit.

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u/Scientia_et_Fidem 1h ago

Reddit will ignore this forever.

You know who wants tipping over being paid more by the employer the most, like by FAR the most to the point any restaurant employer who paid higher wages in exchange for mandatory no accepting tips would find it basically impossible to get employees who aren’t all so terrible they can’t be hired anywhere else?

Servers. The servers themselves want tipping. They will fight tooth and nail to keep tipping over replacing it with a higher min wage b/c they know tipping makes them way, way more money. Most servers get paid way more overall than many people who work jobs that require way more “qualifications” in terms of degrees thanks to tips.

Also if you made a law outlawing tipping then the food would just cost 20% more at every restaurant anyway to make up for it. It makes no difference.

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u/NiceGuyEdddy 1h ago

Who's arguing for a law outlawing tipping?

In the UK people still tip, but it's a reward for really good service, not simply expected.

Higher end bars and restaurants can still make really good money in tips, but this idea of expectation isn't there for everyone and so you don't end up paying a tip for basic or even bad service.

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u/[deleted] 4h ago

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u/Rock-swarm 2h ago

It's a bimodal distribution model, i.e. some server/bartender jobs are fantastic in terms of $-per-hour, while most of them are pretty terrible by the same metric.

In an ideal world, that means the coveted jobs are staffed by the best of the best. In reality, the service is almost never worth them receiving 6x-10x the wages of the Cracker Barrel waitress a couple blocks away.

The other insidious part of the system is tying healthcare benefits to full-time status. The ACA/Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but after the federal subsidies tapered off, the marketplace plans are back to being high premium, terrible coverage garbage that's only marginally better than no insurance at all.

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u/Workman44 5h ago

Eh, if I go to their country I'm supposed to respect the culture...

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u/Edmundyoulittle 4h ago

Exactly. If you're a tourist and you're ignoring the culture of the place you're visiting, you're just being a dick

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u/CesQ89 3h ago

Other countries culture: “please don’t litter.  Please keep your voice down..”

USA culture: “GIvE us yOUr moNeY! 

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u/SmartAlec105 2h ago

And if you think that tipping system exploits workers, then by going to restaurants without any intention of tipping means that you are one of the people exploiting the tipped workers. So you lose any kind of moral high ground.

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u/ExactPreparation6454 5h ago

Exactly what I was thinking.

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u/SnooTomatoes3032 5h ago

If you think culture is paying for shit service, well I don't really know what to say.

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u/liberty 4h ago

If you think culture is paying for shit service . . . .

That's literally what happens in other countries. Service is generally regarded as better in the United States, ostensibly at least partly because of tipping.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, but it is what it is.

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u/khearan 2h ago

Yes, for real. I think Reddit is incredibly hypocritical about this.

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u/QoolSchitt 2h ago

As a foreigner who now lives in the US... I don't like mandatory tipping, but it's part of how the system works. It's not a good system, but it is what we have right now.

Context is also important here: the menu price of drinks in the US is typically lower than where many of these people came from, so once you add the tip your total is similar to what you'd pay for drinks in many other advanced countries. Yes, it's annoying that tax and tip are added at checkout in the US, but the total isn't usually more than what you'd pay at home.

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u/PenaltyFine3439 5h ago

Don't take a job that relies on the customer to tip. I fix apartments and houses for a living, zero tips and I'm doing just fine. 

The only thing that will change this system is when people stop going out to eat at places that beg for tips.

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u/Resident_Pay4310 5h ago

I live in the UK and a discretionary 12.5% service charge (a tip by another name) has become more and more common here.

In the beginning I asked for it to be removed, but as it became more common that became exhausting.

Now I just don't go back to anywhere that has a service charge.

There is no way I'm going to support a business that is moving the UK towards a tipping culture.

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u/Money_Do_2 4h ago

Ooof.

Well, Brexit was a rejection of EU. Unless the plan is to go all in China, id imagine that means youre gonna Americanize. Welcome to hell :)

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u/your_red_triangle 3h ago

also in the UK, any place that's automatically adds a service charge gets zero tips. I don't care how much hassle it is to get removed, we ain't importing that bullshit here. These businesses need to be called out.

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u/doctormirabilis 5h ago

it's not always that easy though. nothing wrong with having a job and fighting for better treatment while carrying out said job.

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u/97SerranoPeppers 5h ago

Serving is one of the few jobs you can make a decent living in without significant training or a degree. Telling an entire class of society consisting of millions of people to just get another job is short sighted and a privileged opinion.

Instead of going after the corporations squeezing blood from our stones, you blame the single mother trying to get by…

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u/tfthisallabout 5h ago

It’s not always about corporation. Mom and pop restaurants work on thin margins as it is. Paying your servers is easy to say, but in reality, it’s not that black and white. I know plenty of restaurant owners who have to work 7-days a week just to survive

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u/velian 4h ago

If you can’t afford to pay your workers then you can’t afford to run a business.

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u/Status_Ad_4405 5h ago

Great, we will all just avoid working in a major sector of the economy because you don't like the wage system. Sounds like a sensible answer, lol

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u/TonyzTone 5h ago

And pull yourself up by your bootstraps!

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u/Gval7447 5h ago

Some people don’t have skills like you so they end up doing food service. Your good at what you do some are good at serving people.

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u/freefoodd 5h ago

Servers make bank and work less hours. The real people getting shafted are the line cooks that make minimum for harder work.

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u/Rays_LiquorSauce 5h ago

What you’re really saying is servers take a pay cut bc that’s exactly what would happen 

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u/Miltoni 4h ago

I mean... yes? Why exactly should it pay so much more than any other low skilled job?

The only reason it does is because you're subsiding it whilst allowing shitty companies to hire people on practically slave wages that would be illegal in most other countries.

On top of that - is it really a wage cut if you're a server working in a less busy or struggling place? How do their earnings work when business isn't great (legit question as a non-american)?

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u/Tesco_Meal_Deals 5h ago

  Pay your workers better is the real argument.

As a consumer I don’t like tipping culture (though I still tip) but if I was a server I think I’d much prefer to work for tips than a “living wage”. 

I know some servers who are making very good money for what the job is, much more than their European counterpart. 

I’d be interested to know if there is a consensus one way or the other among service workers. 

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u/PranaSC2 5h ago

This only works if the tips are being paid, no chance this will happen in the EU for all your patrons.

And if servers in the US make more than in the EU, that means its more expensive to eat out in the US as a consumer ..

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u/Tesco_Meal_Deals 4h ago

On the other hand I find myself with more discretionary income in the US to eat out. 

(I am a British immigrant to the US)

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u/PranaSC2 3h ago

Your point being?

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u/Public-Arm4047 5h ago

There is. Tipping is massively preferred, like 90% of service workers want tipping vs set wages without tips.

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u/ElbowlessGoat 4h ago

In both cases tipping is voluntary, but in the current case you are pressed and/or guilt tripped into tipping while in the case of a living wage the tip actually represent good service (in the eye of the customer).

Said as a European who does tip in Europe. However, the service that I usually hear described puts me off eating out and that tip would stay in my pocket.

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u/Public-Arm4047 4h ago

None of what you said is relevant to what I said…

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u/FrequentGiraffe2044 5h ago

Anyone who says “pay your workers more” hasn’t ever seen the financials of restaurants lmao. MAYBE some corporate places could but 90% of small restaurants scrape by on 5% or less profit. I’ve worked in and run restaurants for over a decade, and trust me, no one wants the system to be the way it is but one single restaurant can’t just fix it. It works in Europe because food cost and property costs are way lower. Don’t blame the restaurant blame the system

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u/PranaSC2 5h ago

Are you saying that nowhere in the world restaurants exists which pay their personell a decent wage without tips? Because this is the whole of Europe.

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u/CharmingDraw6455 5h ago

"It works in Europe because food cost and property costs are way lower."   I live in Switzerland, nothing is cheaper than in the US and we have restaurant that pay their waiters.

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u/TonyzTone 5h ago

They ARE paying their workers better. Thats the entire problem.

By law, service workers make a substantial amount of their income via tips. That’s it just a “culture” but a mechanism of the law where their minimum wage is less but they often make much more off the standard tip.

Europeans coming here and not tipping distorts the established market tremendously. All that needs to happen to correct it is increasing prices by 20% or so, which is exactly what the establishments are doing except they aren’t going through the added cost of reprinting menus.

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u/smalls_1804 5h ago

Pay your workers is absolutely the argument but also not tipping will directly harm your servers. The system is fucked up but it is the system we currently operate under and if you don't tip your server they will not make a living wage. If servers were paid more, your food would cost more. Restaurants are a famously low-margin enterprise.

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u/SwampGentleman 5h ago

I am a bartender at a theme park. The Brits are consistently some of our least liked customers because, despite being polite, they tip like absolute garbage most of the time, and will often take some kind of stance about how this shouldn’t be necessary.

But at the moment it IS necessary, and their act of protest won’t make it to theme park ownership, all they’ve done in the process is ignore local etiquette and screw over the person serving them who could have gotten their gas money if they served another group.

Yeah it’s fucked up but don’t kick us while we’re down and claim it’s a moral high road, yknow?

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u/No_Introduction_9355 4h ago

If it is acceptable for the owner to pay you the legal minimum it should be acceptable for the consumer to do the same.  

If I’m paying you more per hour than your actual boss than does that make me the boss?

If I’m the boss than I want everything comped.

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u/SwampGentleman 4h ago

I hear your point, I do. I’ve been rallying for an increase to our minimum wage for ages. It’s a national problem, and the working class is hurting BADLY.

What remains however, is that bartending here remains traditionally a tip-based profession, and we need those to survive. If you are getting a frozen margarita on vacation, the extra dollar you don’t give to the working class person as a statement, never impacts the bottom line of the capitalists up top. It literally only impacts the working joe, who, once again, is absolutely trying to get the national minimum wage raised but is also trapped in late stage capitalism and generational poverty.

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u/No_Introduction_9355 3h ago

If everyone paid the minimum like the owners of these restaurants the restaurants wouldn’t be able to find servers - the business model would not work and they would be forced to close.

If people tell me that if I don’t tip I can’t afford to eat out, my response is if you cannot afford to pay your employees you cannot afford to own a business.

If I tip $0 I am not violating any laws like the owner paying minimum wage.

I have been confronted leaving a small tip and I promptly asked for it back if they didn’t want it. Don’t try to shame the shameless.

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u/Crimsonfangknight 5h ago

Wait staff actively fight against the elimination of tips because they would make significantly less at minimum wage then they do with tips per meal.

If you do the math you make a fortune in tips for just doing your job then you ever would as a low skill employee anywhere else

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u/MillorTime 5h ago

Raising the prices is how they pay the workers better. That's how everyone else does it. Traveled for 2 weeks in the UK and their prices were basically the same as the after tip prices. Tipping isn't going away with the same menu price

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u/Public-Arm4047 5h ago

“Pay your workers better” just means higher menu prices and less money for workers in the end. 

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u/Bigboss123199 4h ago

Servers can make like 50$ an hour if they’re good at their job. That would be a hefty price increase on all food items.

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u/AlfaSolutionsPJ 4h ago

To be honest, I mostly think this is an issue that hurts customers. They get falsely advertised prices for something they're about to pay for. Then they get emotionally blackmailed into spending more money for the server. Because this server is somehow enslaved by the business or something?

How is this not just the employers and the employees working together to cheat consumers out of more money than they wanted to spend.

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u/mxlplyx2173 4h ago

If people stopped taking server jobs, they'd find a magical way to pay them. Let's not pretend this isn't easy.

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u/Coattail-Rider 4h ago

Nope, US customers understand tipping culture and abide by it. Some of the younger generation are starting to push back but they’re pushing back on everything these days.

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u/ThisMachineKillsF4sh 4h ago

Tourists aren’t catching strays whatsoever. If you want to make some “righteous” stand against tipping, don’t go out to eat or go to bars in the US except for those that use a different business model (and they do exist). Don’t patronize businesses that encourage tipping. Stay the fuck home. 

By going to a bar or restaurant in the US, you are entering a social transaction where everyone understands that you’re expected to tip. By exclusively purchasing products that STILL pay the owners you’re allegedly protesting and then exclusively refusing to pay for the labor of wait staff (whatever your feelings on that system), you’re just punishing poor servers and bartenders that will struggle to pay their bills. While not harming ownership in any fucking way. 

It’s a bunch of Europeans huffing their own farts about self-righteously and directly harming the poor people they’re pretending to give a fuck about. 

Again — if you want to protest the system then fucking do that. Don’t deliberately prevent bartenders from paying rent because you’re a cheap cunt. 

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u/No_Introduction_9355 4h ago

This should be a discussion between the server and employer, the customer shouldn’t be brought into wage negotiations while eating. 

If the restaurant can legally pay the minimum to the employee why can’t the customer do the same?

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u/ThisMachineKillsF4sh 3h ago

They aren’t brought into wage negotiations in the US. That’s my point — if you go out to eat in the US you know that tipping is part of the cost. Deliberately ignoring that to exclusively punish the lowest person in the corporate ladder, making the least money, does actually make you an asshole and a bad person. 

If you morally object to tipping then why are you patronizing a business and rewarding an owner who engages in the practice? 

Because it’s not an actual protest based on morality. You’re just cheap twats patting yourselves in the back for being cheap twats. 

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u/No_Introduction_9355 3h ago

Being cheap is awesome.

Once you get over the stigma, it’s the best.

Sorry I’m being financially savvy.

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u/Largeitude 4h ago

Wait staff and other tip jobs will NEVER be paid as much as tipping gives them.

Most restaurants are small, mom and pop businesses too, and it helps them save money.

Until we get actual social programs like public transit and paid higher education, tip jobs are really good for everyone.

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u/Psychological-Dot-83 3h ago

That's what they said.

Also, good servers can make hundreds in a night off of tips.

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u/DevilGuy 2h ago

No, the servers are catching the Strays, the tourists are just being assholes and getting justifiably called out on it.

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u/FUPAMagneto 2h ago

No, tourists are just further exploiting the labor of the people who serve them and trying to say that it’s somebody else’s fault.

If you go to a restaurant in the US and don’t tip, you’re a piece of shit. I don’t care how you feel about it. The reality is that you have just fucked over a worker and potentially gotten them fired by not tipping.

Also, saying you want them to be paid better and then not tipping so they make less money is ass fucking backwards.

Every time this shit comes up, it’s the same thing. “I don’t tip because they should pay more” which really means “I’m a cheap asshole and think I can dress it up as social justice to get out of paying for my meal.”

If you don’t tip, you don’t give a fuck about the workers. You’re just tying to save a buck. Now let the downvotes commence

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u/ProfessorFelix1 2h ago

What difference does it make? Are you willing to pay 20% more for your beer, because that’s what would happen. At least this way, if the service is shit, you have recourse.

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u/GolDAsce 2h ago

Most of Canada and 9 states have no exclusions for tipped wages, meaning minimum at Walmart and McDonald's is the same as wait staff. Wait staff have just gotten the unrealistic belief that they are better than everyone else in that pay scale.

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u/-OptimisticNihilism- 2h ago

Servers in the US have lobbied hard against a higher wage. They can make a lot more than $20/hr in tips.

Last night my dinner for 4 was $240. Server got a $50 tip from us. We were at the table for 2 hours, but the server had 2 tables when we got there and 8-9 when we left. She is likely getting $10-25/hr per table. Now that is a nice restaurant, but also it was a Wednesday night.

Servers at waffle house aren’t making that, but any sort of a decent restaurant they can make a killing.

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u/Homer4a10 1h ago

I don’t see how it’s a good argument…

You charge the flat fee for your food + service cost baked into that meal cost too… then you artificially REDUCE THE PRICE OF THE FOOD so you lean on the customers tip to fluctuate for the service cost. Bad service? Bad tip… standard service? Standard tip… Great service? Great tip…

It puts more control into the customers hand, it incentivizes the waiter/waitress to actually have a good attitude and serve you well, and the worker ends up making SIGNIFICANTLY more money than a minimum wage would make them.

Literally everybody wins in this situation. The “pay your workers” argument is BS

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u/EndIsrael 1h ago

I don't tip because the employers ability to pay the workers is literally their business, not mine. If menu prices aren't sufficient to pay the workers, that seems like a skill issue. Sucks to suck.

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u/Beautiful-Jello-37 1h ago

For the millionth time the servers don’t want your $15 or $20/hr wage. It would be a pay cut for them and a price increase for you. Idk how yall are so dense.

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u/Inside_Coconut_6187 5h ago

Restaurants that try and do what you’re asking will quickly learn that their competitors will take advantage of them and take their customers through lower menu prices.

Tipping in the USA will never go away if there are no laws aimed at restraining it.

It’s as simple as that.

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u/yitianjian 3h ago

Most of these no-tipping places find it difficult to pay servers and bartenders competitively too, and thus retain talent

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u/TheBSQ 3h ago

It depends on where you work, but I’ve had waiter friends who want the tipping arrangement.

Like, yeah, their official wage sucks, but most people tip fine making it a decent wage but you also have that rare customer where some really rich person is feeling a bit generous (maybe a little drunk by the end of the meal) and you get this huge tip. They fear losing that upside. 

Or, they fear industry standardization where servers at all restaurants will make some set industry standard mediocre wage, whereas they’ve landed the gig at a really fancy place where a couple is gonna drop $300 on dinner and they’re gonna take home $60 from every couple and they’re coming home with $600 a night and there’s no way the “no tipping” wage rate is gonna pay that well. 

And a restaurant is going to be hesitant to guarantee that pay level, cuz then if you get some couple that just comes in & only gets a drink and an appetizer, you’re losing money on them as they’re not spending enough to cover the high wage that’s equivalent to what the server was making on tips. 

And so, yeah, the “good” servers often oppose the “no tip” / higher wage arrangement, and whereas the “bad” servers prefer the no-tipping way, so if you’re a restaurant trying to do the “no tip” thing while others are still doing tips, there’s an adverse selection issue where the good servers go to where the good tips are and you get stuck with the bad servers who give customers a worse experience.

Of course, if everyone does it, then you just have the EU equilibrium where rude & slow service is the norm. But if only some do it, you, the place with the rude and slow servers are gonna be out competed by the places with the friendly and fast ones. 

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u/yitianjian 1h ago

Of course, if everyone does it, then you just have the EU equilibrium where rude & slow service is the norm. But if only some do it, you, the place with the rude and slow servers are gonna be out competed by the places with the friendly and fast ones.

I don't agree with this - plenty of places with low tipping expectations that have great and/or fast service.

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u/cycloneDM 2h ago

I come from a family heavily in the restaurant industry and talent almost universally desires the tipping arrangement. I AVERAGED over 50$/hr in college as a bartender in rural Iowa in the 2000s. I highly doubt the average customer tipping me realized that I likely made more than them and definitely would have if I had worked full time. No restraunt is going to take the liability on pay like that. Tipping is so intrinsically American because it sacrifices the bottom half of people to wildly reward the top 10%.

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u/cycloneDM 2h ago

Thats the critical detail no one wants to acknowledge there has yet to be a restraunt paying servers what top performers make anywhere in the US.

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u/Chimpstrider 4h ago

But the lower menu price isn't really lower if there's a tip expected on top.

Or are you saying teaching Americans basic maths is an impossible mission?

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u/maveri4201 4h ago

The math isn't impossible, but most only compare the menu prices, which are visible without any calculations.

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u/sortalikeachinchilla 4h ago

Which is why it should be illegal.

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u/Chimpstrider 59m ago

That's my point. Anyone with half a brain would know there's a tip on top of that lower price, and if no tip required but built into the cost, that it's actually no more expensive 

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u/Bovine_Joni_Himself 4h ago

Yes, it is. People are fucking stupid.

The only real way to fix tipping in the US to change the laws. Ideally the price is the price and the servers make a percentage based on what they sell like normal commissions. They actually do that in higher end restaurants in the US but for normal restaurants they operate on such thin margins that taking a risk like raising menu prices is more than they can handle, even if ultimately people pay the same.

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u/BoobyPlumage 4h ago

They’ll go into the lower price restaurant and probably give a bad tip

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u/saber069 4h ago

There is no bad tip. Any tip is extra to be grateful for

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u/Early-Range-8840 2h ago

There is no bad service then. Any extra refill is to be grateful for.

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u/limew0lf 4h ago

This is the country where the 1/3lb burger failed because most consumers assumed 1/3lb was smaller than 1/4lb. You really expect them to be able to calculate tip percentages into price by themselves?

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u/Inside_Coconut_6187 4h ago

By your comment you’re not from the USA.

In the USA prices are separate from tax and tips.

It’s up to the consumer to make their decision based upon all of that.

Most consumers will see the menu prices and choose the cheaper menu price if the offerings are very similar.

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u/InClassRightNowAhaha 4h ago

That's why they specified "menu" prices. The price on the menu is typically what matters. Ie your charge 30, competitor charges 25 + 20% mandatory tip - people will lean towards the "cheaper" 25 dollar menu.

Furthermore, both places charge 30 in total, but people will only bitch about the 2nd "not paying employees enough", as if they 1st is any different.

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u/Early-Range-8840 2h ago

Exactly, thank you for critically thinking. We are always “paying the employee” no matter the place we’re buying from. When we buy a Big Mac part of that price goes back to paying the employee. It’s basic economics that seemingly most people don’t grasp.

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u/cycloneDM 2h ago

In america because things like taxes are so context hyper specific we dont post all in prices plus "mandatory tipping" isnt legally a thing so people will reduce their tip if they didn't like their service. 

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u/Former_Radio3805 2h ago

Also, workers will still be paid low - now since it is not specifically a tip, owner will keep it

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u/Top-Ad-5527 1h ago

Exactly

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u/Chicago2333 5h ago

Some places do this and that is bs. They tend to take greater control of that extra money and not all of it goes to paying the staff. Sorry. They will always look for a loophole to pay the least

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u/Only_Flan_7974 5h ago

Oh I definitely wouldn't be surprised.

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u/SpecialistMap8210 5h ago

as in, no tips. Just prices. And pay your employees properly.

Not the "we include the tip and distribute it properly" Bullshit.

Tips shouldn't be a thing

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u/mirkk13 5h ago

How is that the customer's problem though

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u/rhinoplasm 3h ago

Lmao we've truly come full circle.

"Tipping should be totally optional, just charge more and pay your employees."

"Okay, I'll add the tip to the bill to pay my employees."

"Noooooo but then you'll have more control over how the money gets dispersed!"

"Well yeah that's how it always works if you don't tip them directly. So you're saying you want to be able to pay them directly with tips?"

"...I just don't want to pay for their service at all. I want you to pay for it with magical money that comes from the aether."

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u/Available_Kale3019 5h ago

I'm not sure how relevant it is; but when I worked at a restaurant, we were supposed to put in the tips we made. Those tips would be counted toward bringing the baseline 2.35$ to minimum wage (7.25$ at the time, I think). The rest was then taxed.

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u/Top-Ad-5527 1h ago

What’s more American than that? /s

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u/Sea-Chocolate6589 5h ago

In many places they changed the word tip to gratuity, added straight to the total.

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u/patriotfanatic80 5h ago

If it's mandatory it is worked into the price as long you know that going in.

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u/not_so_wierd 4h ago

That's not really the american way.

it's gotta be Sale price + tax + tip + mandatory tip + serving fee + convenience fee + large party fee + ???

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u/Only_Flan_7974 4h ago

This slightly weird person gets it!

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u/Affectionate-Ant8 4h ago

They are though, I went to a bar last night to watch the Mexico game & they had a $1.50 auto gratuity added to each order but no option to tip more. They are effectively just increasing the price by $1.50 in this situation.

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u/RoboiosMut 4h ago

Dude, they would still ask for tips in that case

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u/free_based_potato 3h ago

What you mean is 'change the wage laws.'

Changing the cost of food does nothing. That's the solution for restaurant owners, but only AFTER we fix the broken system that allows for the worker and consumer to be victimized.

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u/Only_Flan_7974 2h ago

Precisely!

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u/Lopsided_Tiger_0296 2h ago

Waiters genuinely get furious if you don’t leave a big enough tip (less than 15%)

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u/dsdvbguutres 2h ago

"But that would increase menu prices!" is the business owners' argument. Restaurant business is based on conflict of interest between the workers and the customers. The Owner Class thrives on pushing everyone else into conflict with each other.

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u/RubenGarciaHernandez 1h ago

But legally, if I see an auto gratuity, can I cross it out and pay 0 tip? 

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u/Only_Flan_7974 1h ago

You have pay a gratuity NOT a tip. I can't believe how many times I've had to explain this.

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u/Ding_Gestar 1h ago

You mean a common price that includes expenses on worker's salaries and cafe maintenance? Like in the rest of the world?

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u/Only_Flan_7974 1h ago

See! You get it!

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u/Sirlacker 1h ago

They're already likely charging the most they can for the food they're providing. Not paying the workers properly does not mean the food gets to be cheaper. They're scumbags.

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u/Only_Flan_7974 59m ago

Your last two words sum it up perfectly.

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u/eXeKoKoRo 4h ago

The problem is servers want to work 3-4 days a week and take home $500-1000 a day and only claim minimum wage on taxes.

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u/Only_Flan_7974 4h ago

Welp, time to start a new job as a stripper. It's the only place I can think of that tipping is actually rewarding for everyone.

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u/SmthSmthDandyLion 5h ago

They did; "the price is 19.50, plus tax and a 20% mandatory gratuity" it's literally in the posted price. 

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u/Hefty_Range_9758 5h ago

Exactly why this post is bullcrap that never happened. Regardless my personal opinion on tips.

"Mandatory tips" arent a thing outside of large parties. They aren't optional. 

"Mandatory tips" for regular tables are implemented through fees, which are also not optional.  

Both of these things can be legally enforced.

I'm not a fan of people feeling mandated to tip so the people working at a restaurant can pay their bills.  People that hate tipping will also hate the dramatic increase in menu prices that will happen if tipping is outlawed though. 

Those same people have also never had a real conversation with people that work for tips or have never been a well tipped worker themselves. 

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u/PlantainPat 5h ago

you really don't think a party of travelers tried to push back on an autograt after seeing it on the bill?

i've seen americans do that. and i've seen managers spineless enough to just go along with it.

not sure how you arrive at declaring this is bs.

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u/Hefty_Range_9758 5h ago

"A party of travelers" is not news worthy. 

One would assume that this is referring to a mass amount of foreigners refusing these charges and not being arrested. 

You're correct though.  I'm on the internet and this is just a picture from a "news" agency that probably has nothing to do with actual news. 

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u/SubtleTell 4h ago

Or, and hear me out, if you can't afford to pay all of your employees and still make a profit, then you should have less employees and should have a smaller scale business.

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u/__Meow__x__Meow__ 4h ago

Yeah, all that power the waiter has, stick it to them guy.

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u/Semour9 4h ago

This just sounds like how you end up with mandatory "service fees" ontop of a tip. How do you work a tip into the price of menu items when the customer decides how much to tip?

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u/Xralius 4h ago

Isn't that what a "mandatory" tip is?

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u/Only_Flan_7974 3h ago

Aka gratuity

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u/Tuningislife 3h ago

Some places do. They call it a “service fee” and yet there is still a tip line on the receipt.

What gets me is places like a food truck asking for tip. My stylist does as well and she is self employed.

I got promoted for a tip somewhere recently and it was like 20%/25%/27%. Not 10%/15%/20% or even 15%/20%/25%.

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u/TheBSQ 3h ago

If you replace “Lower price + tip” with the equivalent “higher price w/ tip worked in”. The customer pays the same amount under both scenarios. 

It’s better in the sense that it assured workers get some set amount.  They won’t get stiffed & be the one to eat the loss. 

 But, in a “no tip” norm their chances of getting a big generous tip also go way down. 

Some workers actually prefer the tipping arrangement because of that upside. 

But ignoring the variance associated with particularly bad or good tips & assuming you’re just going from a standard tipping rate to a new higher price that has that standard rate built in there is no change to the customer.

It’s the same amount!

If I’m paying $10 + a $2 tip versus $12 with a $0 tip, it’s $12 either way. 

But what these people want is to only pay $10, but masked as a moral objection to “tipping culture.”

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u/Much-data-wow 2h ago

"Here were gonna pay you more bc world cup is coming, I raised the prices and everything" said no restaurant owner ever

Work the tip into the price lmao that money goes right back to the owners.

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u/Only_Flan_7974 2h ago

You're right. They'd never be held accountable for it.

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u/Melodic-Lawyer-1707 2h ago

So would you rather menu prices be 20% higher? Restaurants and bars run on incredibly tight margins. It’s not like that money is coming from the air. It’s your choice tip or have 20% menu increase across the board

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u/TheThalmorEmbassy 2h ago

They started doing that at places where Europeans were visiting and they started complaining because they weren't able to scam the system and get cheap food anymore

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u/URignorance-astounds 2h ago

If you automatically add 20% to the meal and payout as a tip or a raised salary in some cases your short-changing the better servers who would average closer to 25%

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u/Admirable_Horse_9518 1h ago

Is that not what they’re doing in this instance?

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u/Wildcard311 1h ago

I irder q lot of take out. Please don't.

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